The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Building America's Rifle => Topic started by: Bidah on July 15, 2016, 03:08:06 PM
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So last year I won a very nice matched upper/lower set at a 3Gun match. I knew right away I wanted to build that 6.5G that I have wanted to for at least 10 years..
So, I ordered parts to start the build a few weeks ago. No, I do not have all of them yet, however I have most for the upper now. Then I got to thinking about scopes. Never been much of a scope guy as I prefer irons. This build is for hunting, and maybe a dabble here and there at long range. What I don't know is what magnification I need, or even what reticle I might want to use. I have been thinking good old mil-dot, but there are a plethora of them out there now.
Ideas?
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In choosing an optic, fill in the following blanks!
1) What size is the target or object you intend to shoot .
2) What distance do you anticipate shooting aforementioned object.
3) What time of day, light conditions and temperature will you shoot in?
4) Will you need to address the object quickly?
A 3x9 will do fine for a deer at 200-300 yards, but try that on a Prairie dog @ 600 yards.
Here in Texas, the mirage can be so bad that turning a variable, high power scope above 16 power makes any target look like it's moving!
Before I get started, I'm a bit of an optical snob, my dad spent 40 years making scopes and reticles, 30 of those years were spent at VARO making Starlight passive night vision scopes and the earlier active (infrared) scopes for our military, I had a Noctron4 2nd general night vision scope in my hands in 1969 @ 10 years old, then my Dad took a 2nd job at night, grinding Kodak square glass plates into round lenses, it was my job to glue the plates together with wax paper and some type of hard wax I melted with a propane torch to keep the plates firm but separate to be mounted in the grinding machine. I stacked 50 plates together at a time.
I'm one of those guys who hunts real early and real late, light gathering ability is important to me, I also hunt predators and hogs at night. If you shoot between 8am and 5pm, lots of inexpensive scopes will do a good job.
Growing up and hunting the deep woods in East Tx, there was only one stretch of road you could see 200 yards, normal whitetail distance was 25-75 yards, anything over 6x was a waste, except for zeroing in on dog's head to make sure it wasn't a button buck.
My favorite all around scope at this point has been a Leupold 3.5x10 Mk4 M3, 30mm tube, mildot, yes it is expensive, I got mine nearly half price from an LEO wanting to go up in power range. My 2nd is a Meopta straight 6 power with a 42mm objective, it's a duplex type reticle, but the larger hairs are very bold and make excellent brackets for shooting in poor light when the center can't be seen against the animal. It has an etched glass reticle and excellent optics. Fill in the blanks and let's see what we can suggest.
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Bennie has some good info there. I like, just because of how it looks, objectives equal to or smaller than 50MM and I'm running 30MM tubes now. The 30MM seems to do a better job for me than the 1" tubes...have not tried the 34 yet. Think about it....the larger the tube the less precise you need to be for the moving parts and the less you contort the light causing losses.
If you want a mil dot I'd go First Focal Plane. That means the dots work at all magnifications...not just a single magnification. Burris and Bushnell both have some entry level ones and I have the Bushnell with plans to add a Burris because they seem a bit brighter to me.
I will say that my Bushnells work just fine though. I have the illuminated 6x24x50 and the 3x12x44. The 3x12 is a lot more useful I'd like to have it in 50MM though. They seem to stay on zero with power changes....take a look at their G2DMR reticle http://www.bushnell.com/getmedia/7efa876c-ffe9-48fa-bd4a-0b3c3c9a27ce/2012_EliteTactical_SpecialReticles.pdf?ext=.pdf (http://www.bushnell.com/getmedia/7efa876c-ffe9-48fa-bd4a-0b3c3c9a27ce/2012_EliteTactical_SpecialReticles.pdf?ext=.pdf)
No matter how good your glass is if it's not mounted well the zero can drift...a bunch with temperature and power changes. Two things I do. One I have one of those Midway scope alignment and lapping kits. ALL OF MY SCOPES seemed to perform better after I went back and lapped the rings. And now all I want to run are the one piece scope rings like the Burris PEPR (affordable others are worse or better). With the one piece I don't worry at all about temperature movement in the receiver causing an issue and lapping the one pieces close the deal.
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Thank you Gentlemen. Lot there to digest.
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So tell me about the 6.5G and what you've learned about it. I have a son who wants one in the worst way and I have no idea who builds them now and the plusses and minuses of them. He wants one for hunting....
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you might look at the .260 Rem (6.5 -308).... several guys from MacDill AFB (SOCOM) are having rifles built by my gunsmith friend
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Rastus, honestly go to 65grendel.com and read till you are fully up to speed. LOL As for builders, I really do not know as I am doing my own so was not looking at that aspect. Even though I wanted one for a long time, in the end I was going back and forth between the Grendel and the 6.8SPCII. Opted to stay with the Grendel.
I now have all the parts ready, and will start painting tomorrow. Once that is done, time to build it up. While I have not purchased an optic yet, I have gone between a Leupold CDS and a Vortex Viper HS LR. Right now swinging toward the Leupold as it is simpler. May change my mind again before I get it. Mount will be a Warne Skel mount (I use nothing but Warne).
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Allright I'm checking out the Grendel site. I wasn't aware of the Warne rings/mounts either they look pretty good.
As much as I can, I'm trying to get away from separate rings and bases and go with an all in one base with rings attached like the Burris PEPR. I've been away from these things for a couple of years so I don't know what's out there now that is better than the PEPR.
I use a scope alignment and scope honing tool. On every mount I've honed the groups got better so I figure if there is a monolithic one piece I can screw into the receiver instead of the base I get rid of connection or two. I'm not going to be swapping scopes on rigs so it's not a big deal with me. However, that accuracy thing is because if I don't think it's spot on I can't hit the side of a barn...if I have confidence in the system I do much better.
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I bought a mount with built in rings and it wouldn't work on my AR. It looks like it takes a Picatinny mount but the spacing of the slots is off a little bit. I never heard of anyone else having that problem so you should be good with the PEPR. I wish it fit mine.
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There are a number of 1 piece mount companies out there. I choose Warne since they are top notch mounts, and they support Junior shooters and 3Gun big time. I run about 4 of their one piece mounts, and 1 of them is the Skel.
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(https://flic.kr/p/2iix23R)
Back to the Grendel, I've grown quite fond of handling the medium bore cartridges with a marginal size case such as 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, and 6mm TCU. I started with them in the contender platform but by a friend's insistence decided to build an AR in the 6.5 G. I build my brass from RP 7.62x39 because it comes with small primer pockets (less brisance). The heavy for bore bullets that I shoot require full utilization of propellant space remaining and small rifle magnum primers. Bill Alexander, it's designer, is a few miles down the road from here operating Alexander Arms out of the Radford Arsenal in VA. Rumor has it he's working on an operation in the nearby Dublin community but that started 5 yrs. ago and they are stilll at the Arsenal today. Enuff chit-chat here's my rifle:
modeled after the .264 LBC Ultimate Varminter
shown here with a custom stainless steel forearm being fitted to barrel nut.
(https://i.postimg.cc/pLHY8t4w/6-5-build-sm.jpg)
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I missed this post and picture! It's interesting that you build your brass you must have a heck of a setup for reloading.
Alexander Arms builds an AR platform in 17HMR but it's been a bit out of my price range....any chance you locals get discounts??? ;D
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Pic posted now. There is no discounts for local affiliation with Alexander Arms, sorry.
I shoot contender, therefore I reload due to to the range of wildcats available.
Changing brass neck and shoulders is some of the easier adjustments with dies.
Fire-forming is required of many of the chambers to convert brass from parent design
Here's a looney forearm on a special needs barrel
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Somewhere a carbine is missing its handguard. ;)
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Gemihur, Did you work there ?
Or are you just a dedicated fan ? ;D
Asking because I did and might, probably, know you. ;D
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No, I've never worked in the firearms industry.
Graphics has been my game
I just dig the cartridge designs of wildcats.
And enjoy shaping wood
Presently trying to tweak some loads for my new 30 Raptor from Reeder
(https://i.postimg.cc/W41rVLBz/30-Raptor.jpg)
I hope I know ya' Tom, I'm in the star city.
Thanks,
Jimmy