The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Rastus on December 11, 2018, 06:54:05 AM
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I am planning on buying my wife a semi-auto in 22 mag so she can address errant coyotes that may want to dine on her little show dogs. Maybe in 17 HMR.
Anyway, I am wanting reliability in a semi-auto more than anything. I saw the Kel-Tec CMR 30 which may be real handy for her but I'm also interested in the CZ 512 or the Remington 597. The Ruger 10/22M is made from unobtanium so I know it's out.
Any of you guys have a semi-auto 22 mag for input into the purchase? Reliability first...accuracy next...
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I don't have one but I'm interested in the Savage A22 Magnum. It's a delayed blowback and it's supposed to eliminate problems that some other designs have had. And there's a $50 rebate on them. CCI makes A22 ammo that I saw in their online catalog a couple of weeks ago. It's affordable for a .22 WMR and very accurate. I just found this article about them.
https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2016/7/21/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-savage-a22-magnum/
Or if you want a 10/22 style you can buy an 80% receiver and try not to screw it up. :)
https://www.ruger1022receiver.com/MAGNUM%20Page%2011.htm
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Frank, the Savage is on the list and it has the 17 HMR which I think is better. I need to get the wife into a gun shop this weekend to find out what she would be happy with....a "classic" rifle or something like an AR platform. Alexander Arms has a cool 17 HMR...very pricey though.
But when it gets right down to it...she may just want to carry the ultimate poodle shooter..one of our AR's... in her side x side. Hard to get an answer sometimes.....
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I'd suggest a good trigger and good glass with range finding reticle for an AR if not already equipped with them....I just got my MBT 2S trigger (in gift wrap) from LaRue... looks good, just don't have a lower to put it in currently ;)
if they are a serious problem (lots of neighborhoods here in Fla are devoid of outdoor cats) the ultimate accessory would be a PVS-14 to spot the critters
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The only reason I would consider a rimfire AR would be to use cheap ammo in it, and neither the .22 WMR or .17 HMR is cheap compared to .22 LR. Lucky Gunner is showing .22 LR as cheap as 2.8 cents per round and the cheapest .17 HMR they list is 22.5 cents per round, over 8 times as much. And there's .223 Remington at 20.5 cents per round, so it's cheaper to shoot .223 in an AR than it is .17 HMR.
Winchester Super X .22 WMR 40 grain JHP ammo isn't as bad at 17 cents per round. I don't know how the price of an AR built for it compares to the Savage rifle but the A22 Magnum is what everything I look at would be compared to.
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I'd suggest a good trigger and good glass with range finding reticle for an AR if not already equipped with them....I just got my MBT 2S trigger (in gift wrap) from LaRue... looks good, just don't have a lower to put it in currently ;)<snip>
It's going to be riding in a side by side getting bumped around. I don't know if she wants to have a scope because of the extra time to aim....I do have a DMR build she can use with a Bushnell scope and bullet drops. Well heck, lettus know about that trigger....ain't doin' you any good in the gift wrap!
The only reason I would consider a rimfire AR would be to use cheap ammo in it, and neither the .22 WMR or .17 HMR is cheap compared to .22 LR.<snip>
Gotta remember this is for a quick shot from the wife across maybe a couple of hundred yards. That pretty much rules out 22 LR. 22 Mag drops a good bit and the 17 is only 7 inches low at 200 yards but not much good after that. She may not want the muzzle blast of the 223. We have about 40 acres open in different fields so a 400 yard shot is not out of the question and a likely shot no more than 250 yards. The most likely shot will be 125-175 yards if she has time to get it off. I know everyone wants a clean kill but this is more to protect livestock so it's not a hunting exercise...it's a protection job.
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the stadia lines on a 4x32 ACOG subtend 19" (man's width at shoulders) at the indicated distance.... a coyote is a little less than two stadia lines in length... once you figure the distance, hold over at that correct stadia line, give him a half stadia line lead on the front shoulder if he's moving, and pull the trigger :)
as far as rugged, my first ACOG was a TA01 that I got from a good friend that carried it into Kuwait during Desert Storm (he purchased it privately)... very good price to me as he was moving up... and made it through 6 Ft Benning 3 gun matches and a bunch of local matches without any reliability problems...
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If your wife is shooting coyotes shot placement will be very important unless she doesn't care how long they suffer. Some guy my dad and uncle knew shot 2 coyotes with a .243 Winchester and both of them ran away. When he got home he called my uncle and told him about it. My uncle got a couple of dogs out of the pen and me, my dad and my uncle got on our snowmobiles and hunted down the wounded coyotes. They ran a long way with bullet holes in them but eventually I chased both of them down and finished each one off with a single shot my 10/22. Just plain old 40 grain .22 LR round nose bullets. When you're so close you don't need to aim, a .22 has enough power for the coup de grace, but being wounded by the .243 they ran for miles. There's no telling how long they would have lived before dying a slow painful death. Now I just leave them alone. The doggies have to eat something and I don't own anything that's on the menu.
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Yeah Les....I think that's going to be a bit more complicated than she's going to want to learn. And the ACOG is pretty dang expensive....
Frank this is old time farm driven pest removal. She doesn't care how much I suffer....I doubt the yotes will get a better deal.
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LOL
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....... And there's .223 Remington at 20.5 cents per round, so it's cheaper to shoot .223 in an AR than it is .17 HMR.
It's also cheaper to shoot 9 MM. I would consider the new Ruger 9 MM Carbine before anything in the series of Magnum semi auto rimfires. They are the same cost wise, and are more dependable. A lot of .22 Mag semi's have functioning problems. Especially if they get a little dirty. The long, non tapered case can cause feeding and extraction issues in a dirty chamber. I can't understand the high cost of .22 WMR ammo. It is no more costly or different to manufacture than .22 L.R.
You have a little more brass involved. Along with a few more steps in drawing out the longer case. And it does use more expensive jacketed bullets, along with a tad more powder..... But all of that does not justify 8 times greater cost. It just doesn't.
Look at 9 MM, or .223 like you mentioned. The cases take a LOT more brass. It is much more involved to manufacture them, because it requires a machining procedure to make the rim. There is a primer pocket and a flash hole involved. Not to mention a primer for each round. And it also takes more expensive jacketed bullets, that are far larger, requiring more lead and copper to make, and a LOT more powder per round. And in spite of all that it is still as cheap, or cheaper than the cheapest .22 WMR. It doesn't make sense. And a 9 MM or .223 / 5.56 MM will dispatch a Coyote with more authority than a .22 Mag.
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Cost has to do with demand, .223/5.56 ammo is used in great volume by our Government as well as citizen shooters, so with more of it being made, the price comes down. I would guess that the number of shooters using ,22 Mag is 10% or less of .223/5.56 shooters.
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Cost has to do with demand, .223/5.56 ammo is used in great volume by our Government as well as citizen shooters, so with more of it being made, the price comes down. I would guess that the number of shooters using ,22 Mag is 10% or less of .223/5.56 shooters.
I agree. Another thing is the fact the .17 HMR along with the .17 WMR have taken a lot of sales away from the already slow selling .22 WMR. I know back in the 60's and 70's the .22 WMR enjoyed much better sales. But they slowly dropped off to where it is now. There also doesn't seem to be as many guns for sale chambered in that round. And most all of the one's that are seem to be bolt actions. The .22 WMR has always had issues in semi auto guns.
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The Savage A22 Magnum with its delayed blowback action and 10-round rotary magazine has taken care of the issues other semi-auto .22 WMR rifles have had in the past. At least that's what it says in some reviews of it.
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The Savage A22 Magnum with its delayed blowback action and 10-round rotary magazine has taken care of the issues other semi-auto .22 WMR rifles have had in the past. At least that's what it says in some reviews of it.
I've heard even they've had some issues when used with standard .22 WMR ammo. Which is why CCI has come out with specialized .22 Magnum ammunition for it.
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We ended up with one of these: http://www.excelarms.com/rifles/acceleratorrifle.html (http://www.excelarms.com/rifles/acceleratorrifle.html)
And this: https://www.truglo.com/optics-red-dots/tru-tec-30mm-red-dot-sight-with-laser.asp?catid=52E3D7409570433EBF69FA2CBEB51CA6 (https://www.truglo.com/optics-red-dots/tru-tec-30mm-red-dot-sight-with-laser.asp?catid=52E3D7409570433EBF69FA2CBEB51CA6)
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Cool.
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I use my 17 rem mag for yotes. it will not go thru them. makes the tiny entre hole that is often very hard to find. their insides are goo. its often used by fur hunters.
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I've heard about people having a lot of problems with Accelerators. I'm looking forward to hearing how it runs, especially since I was interested in their pistols. One guy did a review on YouTube and said after he sent his rifle in and finally got it back, it works well. Too bad spare mags are $36 apiece. It may be possible to modify the follower of the 9-round magazine to get a few more rounds in.
The CZ 512 is $49 cheaper and uses the same mags as the CZ 455. Polymer 10-round mags from shop.cz-usa.com are $34. The CZ is 2 pounds lighter, but quite a bit longer. It should have good accuracy with the 20.5" hammer forged barrel. It uses the same scope rings as the CZ 455, but only has an 11mm dovetail for mounting optics. That's going to be a deal breaker for a lot of people. It's not tactical enough, but I'd love to see a side by side comparison of the 2 rifles and the cheaper, lighter Savage A12 with its $20 mags.
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17 mag is bad ass. I found my way to a 17 Fireball. Not quite as fast but it doesn't have the throat erosion of the mag....or at least that's what I read....so I went with the Fireball. I have the original 221 Fireball in the XP-100 pistol so...I can use that brass if I need to someday. I still want a 17 mag...but for now I'm focusing on putting up new fence.
The Accelerator goes well with my wife's (it used to be mine) 5.7 pistol.
Frank I managed a "full suite" of CZ 452's in full wood stock. The 17 HMR was first and I recently Gunbroker acquired a 22LR and a 22 mag. I have scopes and rings for the two 22's. The 452 is a nicer gun than the replacement 455...for instance it has the swaged chamber and a well fitted stock as opposed to the 455's straight pipe like barrel and woodwork. The 17 HMR is a bughole shooter....I'm hoping the 22's are as well. You'd think the Mannlicher stock would seriously detract from accuracy but, happily, it doesn't. One of my absolutely most accurate rifles is a CZ 550 Mannlicher stock in 270...it also came with the very best trigger I've ever had.
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I have about 1000 rounds thru my 17 mag. Bore still looks perfect. Then again I am not loading it for max power. I don't need 4400+ when 4200 with a 20 grain is enough. It's just a fun gun too shoot. My only complaint is it's a pita to load. The bullets are tiny. Before I sold my ranch it was always out I can't tell you the number of pests it killed
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I'm clipping along at 4,025 FPS +/-. I'm not shooting high volume or reloading. It's been my goto....shoot 1" low up close at 100 yards and when I shoot more than about 2/3's the way across one of the fields I hold an 1 or so high....but it is hard to miss dead on.
I need to zero in the Accelerator....probably next week.