The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Rastus on April 13, 2008, 08:50:27 PM
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OK...I'm on a handgun binge (income tax refund coming..!!). I don't own a SIG, but I've picked up the 226 and others. So...for a "full size" SIG....what is the differences in all the 2XX model numbers? Some to stay away from...others not? Does the number change with the caliber or is it a feature change (say has a rail or not, or striker fired...etc.)? Also...do they have a compact in .45?
Which ones do ya'll like and why?
Thanks,
Ken
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I think the number changes with the caliber, I'm not a Sig shooter so I can't tell you any more.
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The SIG Sauer line started in the us in the late 70's with the P220 imported by Browning as the BDA, later by SIG's own US based importer which was to become Sigarms. The P220 is currently avaiable in the US in .45. However, it has been available in 9mm and .38 Super in limmited numbers here in the US. The P225 is or was a single stack, compact 9mm (I don't know if ti is still available new in US now. However there are deals to be had from several wholesalers in the Shotgun News.) The P226 was originally the first SIG double column pistol, introduced at the beginning of the "WonderNine" years. It also became standard with some of the Navy's SEAL teams. Later, came the compact, double column P228, also known in military circles as the M11. It was adopted in limited numbers as a more compact alternative to the Beretta 92/M9. All of these came prior to the .40 S&W. SIG's first .40 was the P229 which was introduced around '94-'95, and was an improved version of the P228 designed to handle the .40's heavier recoil impulse.
The P239 was the last of the totally new SIG designs until the P250. The P239 was a slimmer and more compact pistol designed to replace the P225. Several designs were either improved, ie the P226, which had the same milled, all stainless slide of the P229, and the compact P245, a scaled down P220 in .45 ACP.
The SIGPro's came next, late 90's as I recall, but I really don't have any experience with those, so all I'll say is that they're there, and I've not heard any negatives.
As far as ones to stay away from, in my limited experience, None! Pick the one you like the best in the calliber you prefer, and shoot the snot out of it. ;D ;D Later!!
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Carried a P228, P229 and own a P220 Carry model now, in .45. Rastus, I probably put 10K through the first two, each, and had so few failures I can't remember them. It was always operator error like failure to seat the new mag or a bad round. There are so many choices in fire controls (SA/DA, DAO, SA) that you can just make your own custom pistol that will last a very rugged lifetime. The new .45 compact looks very 1911 style, but I haven't had it in hand. Let us know what you decide. Will it fit in that famous Fanny Pack? Oh, never mind. Don't want to fire that up again.
Mac.
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Check the Sig web site and the Sig forum.
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I agree check the sites out but the ones on the official site are the ones being currently manufactured so if you're looking for an older model there's info everywhere on the net.
I've had a little experience with Sigs, as far as I'm concerned they are the top tier for DA/SA autos. The P226 sings in 9mm, excellent gun all around and the P220 (standard) is flat out one of the best out of the box 45s on the market. I still prefer the 1911 but its really hard to beat so don't let that stop you (they even make a single action only P220 which is really slick). The only problems I have is that you can't buy new non-railed Sigs now and they are $200 too expensive (and thats being modest), I recomend going for a used sig which go for substantially less.
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Hey Rastus! Finally something I have a little experience with. I've fired the 220- nice! 226 is a real hummer too.
I own a SigPro 2022 in 9mm. It's DA/SA, with a decocker, which I like- you really have to want to make that first "go boom" in DA, then your other shots are fast and furious at about 4 lb pull. I've got about 5500 rounds through that gun in about 1-1/2 years and NEVER a hiccup.
I've also got a Sig 1911- the Nitron Revolution GSR with adjustable sights...VERY acccurate and has a very nice trigger that everyone raves about who try it, right out of the box.
I've never experienced any problem with any Sig I've handled other than my sights coming loose on the 45, which was an easy fix.
I believe them to be like they say, "To hell and back reliability". They're not the prettiest guns, and some are not the most accurate, but they always go boom.
The only complaints I've heard are one guy I know has a 220 Elite that he sent back 3 times. I've also heard that the Mosquito (22) has a lot of problems.
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Yep, before I bought all my Glocks, I almost bought a Sig. Perhaps I will anyway someday. They are good guns. The 226's are sweet! I think out of the sig's I shot and handle, they were the best feeling to me.
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Lusted over a 229 compact model in 9 MM that was all sweet and round where it counts. There was also a full size 45 in model 229(?) that was, though more robust...just as sweet and smooth.
Looking bad for the home team.....
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Lusted over a 229 compact model in 9 MM that was all sweet and round where it counts. There was also a full size 45 in model 229(?) that was, though more robust...just as sweet and smooth.
Looking bad for the home team.....
229 is a compact, probably a 226 if .45. I have a 12 year old P220 in .45 that is just sweet.
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Rastus,
I like them all. I have used several. The only one that is a problem is the Mosquito which we have posted on several times before.
The number after the 2 does not reflect the caliber usually. The P239 for instance is available in 9mm, .357 SIG and .40 as is the P229. The P220 is a .45 now, but the first one I shot in Germany many years ago was a 9mm.
The SIGs are serious guns that are famous for their hell and back reliability and outstanding accuracy. I use my P226 9mm for league and my P220R as my night stand gun.
I have purchased new and used SIGs and they have all been first rate.
I think for the money, they beat the good 1911s for value. I am a great fan of 1911s but I decided I wanted a DA/SA some years ago and got a good deal on a used P226 that turned out to be an outstanding pistol. I took that pistol to several courses at SIG Academy and put a short trigger on it just for fun. BTW I am a certified SIG Armorer. Now all my center fire SIGs have night sights and short triggers.
I still like and use my S&W revolvers, my XD45 and my M1911s, but the SIGs are my current frontline guns. You will not go wrong with a SIG.
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I am partial to SIGs so my 2¢ is going to be very biased, but for a good reason.
My first SIG (and my first gun purchase) was my Browning BDA that I bought in 1978. As advertised, out of the box the accuracy is amazing. To compare, it is as accurate as a Series 70 Colt NM that I had Pachmayr tune or my Behlert tuned Colt Commander. As to reliability, it will feed ANY round of 45ACP and will chuck the empties like a destroyer throwing depth charges. I bought another SIG P220 in 2003 to "semi-retire" my BDA. This SIG is just like the first. Flawless function and amazing accuracy.
If you are looking for a compact 45 ACP gun, SIG makes the P220 Compact and the P220 Carry. I have no experience with these two SIGs. Will say that for me (I am 5'9" and 200#) my P220 is not hard to carry concealed. In fact, given the accuracy and reliability it is rather comforting! However, if you are looking for a compact platform for 9mm, 357SIG or 40SW, SIG makes the P239. This gun has had awesome reviews. Lastly, as you mentioned there is the P229. It is only slightly larger than the P239 and is available in the same variety of "flavors".
SIG also has their new P250 available in a compact model and soon, a subcompact. The P250 Subcompact will be DAO, available in 9mm (12+1) 357 SIG (10+1), 40SW (10+1) and 45ACP (6+1). What is interesting to me about this gun is that size, weight and function wise, it is the same as a "J" frame S&W 640 except it packs a lot more firepower. I plan to take a serious look at these when SIG releases them.
Lot of great information on these guns is available at the SIG Forum (sigforum.com). Good luck and have fun with the selection.
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I am partial to SIGs so my 2¢ is going to be very biased, but for a good reason.
I have P220 Compact (6+1), a P229 in .40, and a P220 that is being converted to 10mm, among others. My favorite guns by far, I sold all my Glocks after the 2nd SIG.
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As a lover of the SIG since... since I first learned of handgun differences, they're all fine.
The P220 - full sized .45 (4 1/2 inch or so barrel)
P220 match has a 5" barrel, P220 Carry has under 7" length, full grip, P220 Compact is the P245 with a better backstrap.
The P225 - the 7 inch long, 9mm version of the P220 (discontinued, but a flood of used P6's are coming in from CDNN)
The P226 - full sized 9mm, .40 and .357 - the almost 8 inch long version.
The P228 - dedicated 9mm, 7 inches long, 13 rounds (and appropriately shorter grip)
The P229 - mid-sized 9mm, .40 and .357 - the 7 inch long version, minus 2 capacity from the 226.
The P245 - .45 ACP, in P225 dimensions, more or less.
The P239 - a SIG P230-sized 9mm, .40, or .357 with single stack mag and quite slim and comfy.
The P230 - the Walther PP or PPK with better ergonomics and decocking mechanism.
Oldest favorites are the big SIGs, the P220 and the P226. To show how old and oddball I am, my favorite P220 is the .38 Super. Best stand-in for that oddballness is the P226 in .357 Sig, with the bonus cheetoh that the .357 SIG '226 has four more shots.
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Thanks to all of you for the helpful information. The more I look at these Sigs the more I want one...two...three...I'm zeroing in on the P245 and P239....thanks again.
Ken
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I know this is winding down, but may I ask if anyone knows if there are aftermarket grips for a P-220 that are smaller than stock? The grip is long, front to rear, and I have to re-grip after each shot. Just can't get fingers around it toward the bottom of the mag well.
Thanks, Mac.
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That's the biggest "rub" I hear about Sigs is the grip size front to back. It's LONG and so even a narrow grip can leave you trying to get ahold again. My P2022 came with a second grip but it was even bigger than the one from the factory, and I can't use it. I would think they could shrink the backstrap on those one piece grips and maybe get a little smaller circumference. Still great guns though.
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Never had the "too long" front to back problem with even a P220. My hands aren't that big either.
DDMack - I'm not sure, but I remember this one lady who crafts beautiful wooden grips. Maybe she has a design for the P220. I forget her name though, at the moment.
But she's as pretty as her grips.
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Doug, Let me know if you think of it . Sounds like Marshal'ette.
Mac.
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Doug, Let me know if you think of it . Sounds like Marshal'ette.
Mac.
Nah. Esmerelda is darker. She's Texas based I believe.
http://www.esmeralda.cc/
Also, Hogue has metal grips now. Lemme check if they have any for the P220.
http://www.getgrip.com/main/overview/ExtremeSIG.html
Looks like '226's only...
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Nah. Esmerelda is darker. She's Texas based I believe.
http://www.esmeralda.cc/
Yessir, Esmerelda has got some FINE looking grips!
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Yep, she sure does, but nothing I could find for a P-220. Anyway, I called Crazy Louie at the Sig factory and he talked me into ordering the "new" Slim Grips for the P220 and Carry Model. We'll see if they help. In the mean time, any of you not likely to get shot for doing so; go get in that waterfall and convince Esmerelda to use those strong hands to gently shape, sand, smooth and oil down some Sig grips. Be sure to post pics ;D
Mac.
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[Also, Hogue has metal grips now. Lemme check if they have any for the P220.
http://www.getgrip.com/main/overview/ExtremeSIG.html
Looks like '226's only...
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Hogue does make their aluminum grips for the P220. Check out Top Gun Supply for availability.
http://www.topgunsupply.com/Hogue-mid-10.html
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>:(
My experience with Sig has not been positive.
I purchased a Mosquito .22 at the urging of a friend in the Attorney Generals Office.
Carrying daily, he has came to love his 239, and felt the .22 would be a good choice for my kids.
Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!!
Failures to feed, stovepipes,misfires... you name it.
I had hope the gun would work out with some rounds through it, so I did my best to get 250 rounds fired.
I gave up at 50.
Sent it back to Sig....they found a nick in the extractor.
They did repair it under warranty and test fired 10 rounds.
They acted like they knew the gun was a piece of crap!!
When i got it back.....same problem. it is now a paperweight in my gun safe.
I wouldn't feel right about selling it to some other unwitting soul.
My kids and I now use Rugers, and Browning .22's for the daylong excursions they enjoy.
MY ADVICE - DON'T BUY A SIG!!
''To hell and back reliability??'' MY ASS!
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Mojave,
We have a whole thread on the POS Mosquito. I know it is crap own one, too. I t, sent it back for FTF and stove pipe problems. It came back with the smoothest slide I have ever had! And it is still a POS doing the same old FTF and stove pipe. Not just for me, I have had half a dozen people fire it with the same results.
I too, feel the same way about SIG....NEVER AGAIN! Heck, I can't even trade it in for anything. Paid 405 new, trade MAYBE worth 150! Yep, just a paper weight.
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Wow, guys, not to be argumentive but I think the whole world is learning that the Mosquito is POS, and it doesn't speak well of Sig not to do something about that. But on the other hand, the majority of their models are nothing like that. My Sigs are serious performers, and as much as I would get ticked if they screwed up (see my seeminly endless bad luck with the Rugers) my Sigs work great.
My wife and I swear by Sig and S&W in the world of handguns. Everything else is negotiable.
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JayBeth,
I KNOW Sigs are good guns but I will not support them if they will not support me.
BTW I liked the picture of you and your axe better.
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Well...bought a Mosquito anyway last week. The price of ammo being what it is...I may kick myself for it..remains to be seen. Will shoot it this weekend. The fact that it's like a baby centerfire sold me when I held it....
If it doesn't work well Sig will lose a 229 sale.....
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RASTUS!!!
How could you after all of the bad press here? Don't you trust us? If I wanted a gun that felt more center fire in a rim fire I would look at the Walther or others.
Hell, if you wanted one that bad I would have shipped mine to you. You could try it and then make me an offer (no kidding, I would do that for you and a few others on this forum).
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I agree with Jay on this (and not just because he plays guitar and likes a good cigar).
The Mosquito could well be the "Pinto" in the SIG line. There has been some bad press here and at the SIG Forum on this gun. While there has been some good press, it would have possibly behooved you to do a little more research on the gun before buying it.
It is rather ignorant, let me rephrase that ... significantly ignorant to say the entire SIG line is crap due to your experience and your friends and/or family's experience with your Mosquito. Sorry you had a bad experience with that gun. But there are SIGs outside your zip code that work as advertised.
Like Jay and others, my SIG experience has been 180º from yours. I have been shooting the SIG platform with their 45ACP guns since 1978. Out of the box, as accurate as some highly tuned comp guns and as reliable as any S&W revolver (more so than my 629 DX that had locked up on me and had to go back to S&W twice).
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RASTUS!!!
How could you after all of the bad press here? Don't you trust us? If I wanted a gun that felt more center fire in a rim fire I would look at the Walther or others.
Haz,
Probably for the same reasons you bought it.....and I trust ya'll....only my lust factor was probably higher than yours. Have had a problem with that in this life.....or it could be my outlet for gambling. Yeah...I know about the Walther's and they are nice....and it's likely I'll buy one of those with an AAC Pilot next week (when I pay for that integrally supressed M77 in .44 mag I told you about). I mean....man that Mosquito sure ooozes the hot stuff...know what I mean? I know...I know...ya'll can put in the penalty box.
But the bigger penalty box will be Sig....I respect Ruger for what they are doing...but you know...if Sig won't fix the new ones coming our or discontinue them...much less give people a warning...you got to wonder. There probably won't be a 229 in my future if the Mosquito fails and I was looking for a piston operated AR...both considerable sales that may be botched if I get a shoddy Mosquito...and this is no bull I was holding one of those 229's the other day and really need (want) one and have the cash available...and I need an AR I can use my can with so that I don't get gas in the face.....but it's a cinch I'll get an FS2000 over the Sig AR if the Mosquito bites me.
Now...my few sales won't sink them...but by how many times is this being multiplied. I'll give a range report after I burn a few through it.
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One hint. There is a hole in the slide on the right hand side behind the ejection prt. Book says a drop or two of oil...FLOOD it (6 drops) it might work better.
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SIG took a while to fix the P230's breakable grip problem with the rubber grips on the P232.
As for the Mosquito, it's not even manufactured by SIG, but rather it's more or less a licensed copy of the P226 in .22 LR.
Stick with the actual SIG products like the P-series and the sigpros and you won't have much of a problem.
Now if they'd only release civillian friendly versions of the 550 and 551, instead of that AR wannabe 556.
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Rastus had a brain fart!
Holy cow...I hope the mosquito works good, because it really is like the Pinto of Sigs. You think you got a good gun then the gas tank blows up on you...Ouch!
If you had started out with ANY other Sig model and didn't like them, I'd be fine with that but man, you CAN'T hold it against all those other good guns if it doesn't work, because everybody told you. But the lust...
Actually, how many times did people say, "Stay away from HER she's bad news" and oh boy, did I listen? Ha! Nope!
So Rastus had a lust moment. At least it was a relatively inexpensive lust moment. If it was a Pinto or a woman it would have been disastrous.
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JayBeth,
BTW I liked the picture of you and your axe better.
I'm just trying to show that I'm versatile. I can pose AND waste ammo.
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Well guys...went to the range today and ran the Mosquito. 250+ rounds and flawless. No failures, no malfunctions. It worked perfectly. The only thing I had to do was nudge the sight over a bit as the gun was shooting to the right of point of aim.
I will say the trigger needs a bit of work...I guess I've gotten used to the new stuff...when I pulled out my 25+ year old Challenger III I quickly remembered what a 22 trigger could be.
Looks like I'm on my way to a 229...after a possible AR-10 detour....
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Well guys...went to the range today and ran the Mosquito. 250+ rounds and flawless. No failures, no malfunctions. It worked perfectly. The only thing I had to do was nudge the sight over a bit as the gun was shooting to the right of point of aim.
I will say the trigger needs a bit of work...I guess I've gotten used to the new stuff...when I pulled out my 25+ year old Challenger III I quickly remembered what a 22 trigger could be.
Looks like I'm on my way to a 229...after a possible AR-10 detour....
Don't forget to by your Lottery ticket, You are one LUCKY dude. Hope you enjoy it.
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Don't forget to by your Lottery ticket, You are one LUCKY dude. Hope you enjoy it.
Could be because I won't buy one????
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Don't forget to by your Lottery ticket, You are one LUCKY dude. Hope you enjoy it.
i AGREE! Go out and buy the biggest lottery ticket you can find because YOU lucked out !
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If I bought one of those tickets my teeth would fall out (the ones that are left), the IRS would come knockin', someone would cart off my gun safe and my wife would get fat.
Better off for me to be your conscience on the sidelines and leave well enough alone.
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I don't know anything about the XX or hteir compact model. I do know you can get a used P 220 for about half the money of a new one. Cops turn in their service pistols and Sig inspects them, fixes what needs to be fixed and sells them. I bought one and it came with night sights, I put Houge grips on it and I wouldn't trade it for a new pick up. Check their web sight . Good luck.
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I have owned Sigs since our department allowed us to switch from wheel guns to real guns. I have never had a failure with a sig. I own a Sig P220 in 45 which I shot at the S&W academy against all the 9mm's there and gave all of them a run for their money with their 16 round mags and my 8 round mags in head to head, lost the last match because I got sloppy :'(.
My department now issues the P229 in 40 S&W; it is a nice trade off for caliber size and magazine capacity for me. I only carry two extra mags on the belt versus the four I carried with P220. I carry a P239 in 40 S&W for off duty.
You won't find me using any other gun.
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OT - Sergeant Z-Squad, are you from the Zombiesquad forums?
On Topic - Great story about the S&W Academy. Sorry you got sloppy, but at least you showed the 9 boys that the .45's still fast and furious.
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OT - Sergeant Z-Squad, are you from the Zombiesquad forums?
On Topic - Great story about the S&W Academy. Sorry you got sloppy, but at least you showed the 9 boys that the .45's still fast and furious.
Midnight commando playing in the dark brother.
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Midnight commando playing in the dark brother.
I'm the Outcast once known as Skaramine. :X