The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Big Frank on November 17, 2014, 10:29:21 PM
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When you're unloading a pistol do not catch the ejected round in your hand. I saw this on another forum and heard that several people were hurt doing this.
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I don't believe it. The ejector is not pointed enough to properly dent the primer and I don't think you could pull the slide fast enough to generate enough momentum even it if did.
I'd love to know what forums are carrying this.
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Alf, it has happened! Then again USPSA shooters do it all the time without mishap!
FWIW
Richard
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it usually happens when the ejected round does not completely clear the ejection port, bullet nose temporarily catches the ejection port, cartridge is turned at an angle, and drives the primer against a long ejector....
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If it does happen wouldn't EVERY manufacturer now have that 'catch all' included in the owners manual...like they do with reloads?
Warning, never unload the gun without pulling the trigger on the chambered round.
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Wouldn't it fire the round immediately after striking the ejector?
Doubt very much it's going to squib and explode while it's airborne or when caught. An un-chambered cartridge case will move farther than the bullet, won't it? It's the lighter of the two components therefor, Newton gets involved and pooches up the whole mess with physics!
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We're talking about either 3 hands, or darn quick yank on the slide.
Tim, you are right, but do you want a little explosion in your hand regardless of how far the constituent pieces go ?
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I can not and will not say it can't happen, BUT.... Looks to me like it would have to be a sho'nuff mechanical failure like a bent (?) ejector.
Being the type I am, I just checked with my Commander and do not see it happening, at least with a 1911 style pistol. 1911's have a slot in the slide for the ejector to ride in, so it would be hard for one to be bent enough to hit the center of the cartridge.
I loaded a single cartridge and with the gun pointed in a safe direction looked into the port while ever so slowly drawing back the slide. The extractor held the case perfectly straight (against the breechface) all the way back until the RIM of the cartridge (at about the 7-ish o'clock position) contacted the tip of the extended ejector.
It might be much easier to happen in another type of semi-auto. I just think it'd be mighty hard in a 1911.
Like I said, I won't say that it is impossible.....heck anything can happen from time to time.
YMMV ;)
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Tim, you are right, but do you want a little explosion in your hand regardless of how far the constituent pieces go ?
No! That would hurt...
;(
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We're talking about either 3 hands, or darn quick yank on the slide.
Tim, you are right, but do you want a little explosion in your hand regardless of how far the constituent pieces go ?
You roll the pistol to the side so the ejection port is on the downward side.
Grasp the slide with your left hand while it covers the ejection port.
Work the slide and the ejected round ends in your hand rather than flying through the air.
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Usually happens with an extended ejector and following the procedure outlined by Solus. Most competitive shooters have gotten away from this procedure and yank the slide back and catch the live round in their hand. Looks kool but most of them get free ammo and can afford to let the round hit the ground!
Richard
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I'll err on the side of caution and pick a round off of the ground rather than a finger.
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I call rubbish. In the unlikely event that a round would go off in the manner described, there would be nothing for the shooter to catch as the round would go off in the ejection port. It would all be over before the shooter could release the slide.
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I know Ellis and Les and others have watched millions more rounds downrange at matches than I, so I'll bow to their experience. But I find it difficult to believe the ejector, which isn't (or shouldn't be) pointed could possibly hit the primer exactly in the middle and with enough force, by hand, to set off a primer.
Maybe my recoil springs are so heavy that I couldn't possibly pull my slide back fast enough to make it happen.
It just seems one of the things you couldn't make happen on purpose in a gazillion years.
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years ago, we had a young Coast Guardsman that shot with us... his carry pistol was a Commander which has an extended ejector... he was working live rounds through the action when one detonated... a piece of brass clipped his neck, and caused a lot of blood loss... he placed a towel on his neck, dialed 911 and went outside to sit on the curb for the EMTs.... when they got there, one questioned him as to what happened... when he raised his neck to show the cut, the artery let loose... luckily the EMT had a hemostat to immediately clamp it off...
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I call rubbish. In the unlikely event that a round would go off in the manner described, there would be nothing for the shooter to catch as the round would go off in the ejection port. It would all be over before the shooter could release the slide.
In this procedure you don't let go of the slide.
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Ok, confession time. I keep my 9mm reloads in sealed plastic bags. One day I tossed a 50 round bag into a bucket containing my 9mm bagged ammo. You guessed it - a primer got hit just right and went off. No one hurt, but I learned my lesson.....
In regards to catching rounds, I would never do it if I was wearing a ring. To much chance that it might result in a bang...
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I was going thru a pistol class and the shooter next to me had a springfield XD. During the class he had a stove pipe on ejection, he went thru the clearing drill and when he swept the slide back, he managed to catch the spent case between the face of the slide and the new round being loaded, when the slide slammed forward, it went off, he had good muzzle control as it was pointed downrange, so no damage or injuries other than his shorts.
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The idea that it takes a hard strike from a sharp item to set off a primer is a misconception. The first gun I built was fired by tapping the primer with a pliers. I have witnessed twice a shotgun primer being set off in the reloading press when a single shot had fallen into the primer seating die. Neither of these are classic sharp blow with pointed item.
While I hate it when a competitor flips their round in the air and catches it, there is no danger of this round going off. However, a round that does not fully eject could be set off with even slow pressure from the slide closing.
Good discussion, and it does remind me of the danger in being lazy and trying to slowly clear a firearm and not letting the round fall to the ground.
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I keep thinking that this may be a one in a million occurrence but I don't want to be the one. I could see this easily happening if a round has a high primer and I know even good brands of factory ammo aren't perfect. I once had a .45 round without an extractor groove. It's hard to believe it missed a step like that and ended up in the box.
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I keep thinking that this may be a one in a million occurrence but I don't want to be the one. I could see this easily happening if a round has a high primer and I know even good brands of factory ammo aren't perfect. I once had a .45 round without an extractor groove. It's hard to believe it missed a step like that and ended up in the box.
That's my thinking.
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That's my thinking.
That is what firearm safety is all about. We go to ultimate ends to be safe. We act as if every gun is just waiting to go boom on its own to avoid the possibility of anything happening. Imagine if we treated other more dangerous activities in our lives like we do firearms. Maybe drivers should consider this when they, we, get behind the wheel or in the passenger seat.
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Can you imagine the havoc wreaked on the auto repair legal, and auto insurance industries if auto accidents were reduced to under 5,000 per year ?
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While I hate it when a competitor flips their round in the air and catches it, there is no danger of this round going off. However, a round that does not fully eject could be set off with even slow pressure from the slide closing.
This gets back to the original post, ie: the round going off via the action of the ejection process itself (such as the primer hitting the ejector as the slide is drawn rearward).
If a round could go off like this, it doesn't matter whether it is being flipped out of the gun (into the air) or into a hand cupped over the slide, except for the potential damage/injury.
I can see a round going off via the second example above, closing the slide on a live round that didn't eject.
Don't get me wrong, safety should always be the thought of the day...especially with firearms......and, even if I don't see it happening under normal operational mechanics, and if it did it would be a freak occurrence due to abnormal circumstances, I also do not want to be that statistic either.
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Can you imagine the havoc wreaked on the auto repair legal, and auto insurance industries if auto accidents were reduced to under 5,000 per year ?
Can you hear the screaming and lawsuits by anti-gunners if anyone even suggested that vehicle operation come even close to what we do on our own with firearms?
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Do you ever text and shoot, or shoot while talking on a cell phone ?
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Do you ever text and shoot, or shoot while talking on a cell phone ?
Saw a guy doing just that at the range once. He had the phone on speaker, laying on the bench next to the rifle, and was having quite the conversation between shots.
Then when he got off the phone, he was trying to use the camera on the phone to look through the scope.
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I'll put this one in the same file that say's it's "dangerous" to shoot 5.56 MM in a .223 chamber. I've yet to see or hear of a catastrophic failure based on that alone. With the millions of AR-15's and Ruger Mini 14's sold in the last decade, we would have seen it EVERYWHERE.
I'm not saying it won't raise chamber pressure a tad, but it's not going to send you to the hospital any more than shooting Weatherby ammunition in a Remington 700 chambered for the same round without the freebore. I don't even bother to segregate my brass anymore when I reload. There is just no need to.
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Can you imagine the havoc wreaked on the auto repair legal, and auto insurance industries if auto accidents were reduced to under 5,000 per year ?
Or the traffic court system if only the same amount got a DUI nationwide in a year? Their tax coffers would dry up in a week.
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Where I have seen this get dangerously close, has been when an ejector is too long or the OAL is too long and there is not enough clearance for the bullet nose to clear the chamber mouth, it will jam the case head against the ejector and trap the whole cartridge sideways. One of my pistols did it while fitting a longer ejector. No boom, but it did dent the outside edge of the primer.
Cartridge flipping is a bad habit, and we don't allow it at our range, it blocks the RO from being intent on the firearm during unloading, places the shooter in a bad position if I had to grab his shoulders to control him, and last, the Newbie sees Grand Master Bob do it, and then tries it, gets confused, and forgets to drop the mag first and pops an uncontrolled round ( hopefully ) in a safe direction.
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Where I have seen this get dangerously close, has been when an ejector is too long or the OAL is too long and there is not enough clearance for the bullet nose to clear the chamber mouth, it will jam the case head against the ejector and trap the whole cartridge sideways. One of my pistols did it while fitting a longer ejector. No boom, but it did dent the outside edge of the primer.
Cartridge flipping is a bad habit, and we don't allow it at our range, it blocks the RO from being intent on the firearm during unloading, places the shooter in a bad position if I had to grab his shoulders to control him, and last, the Newbie sees Grand Master Bob do it, and then tries it, gets confused, and forgets to drop the mag first and pops an uncontrolled round ( hopefully ) in a safe direction.
I will accept that the Grand Masters have been around long enough to do this safely ... most of the time. However, I do not like it in anybody. When I RO I will stop anyone doing this and slow them down. When I give the command "If finished, unload, show clear, and if clear, hammer and holster." You do this at my pace, not your speed!
My problem is the same as Bennie stated: The person without the skills will try to learn or show off, and then we have either embarrassing or dangerous situations.