The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: billt on January 25, 2011, 05:48:39 PM
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As you guys know I've got quite a few AR's, so I thought it would be a good idea to purchase an extra Bolt Carrier Group and Charging Handle to have as a spare. It is fully assembled, ready to drop in. I chose this model from Bravo Company. I've heard a lot of good things about their products. I wasn't able to talk to anyone on the phone, and had to place the order on line. That was no problem, I got order confirmation and everything, but I saw something after I ordered that I'm wondering about. This is the Bolt Carrier Group and the Charging Handle I ordered.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-GFH-Mod-3-p/bcm%20gfh%20mod%203%20556.htm
The BCG I ordered says, "Bolt carrier group (auto version) for your AR15, M16, or M4." This will work in a non select fire rifle won't it? I'm not sure what the difference is between the "auto version", and any of the other BCG on the market? Is the auto version more desirable for some reason? I noticed they only sell auto version BCG's under their name. Bill T.
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It should work fine, but I would be leery of putting "FA" components any where in the bolt or trigger group.
What is legal doesn't matter. What matter's is what ATF decides is legal next week or next year. >:(
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I might be wrong, but FA stuff is the same stuff EXCEPT FA sears, and safeties, with the "third/happy button" position.
Bravo Company, and others worth their salt, won't just sell FA stuff without a copy/certified Class III document on file.
I think the description is part marketing as the charging handle is Mil-spec approved. (Nice one BTW),... I went with the Vltor cold forged.
From Link
Written by Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE), Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch
...M16 bolt carriers are not designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun and are not any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled. Further, an M16 bolt carrier is not a firearm as defined in the GCA or a machinegun as defined in the NFA. An M16 bolt carrier is simply a machinegun part and as such its domestic sale and possession is unregulated under the Federal firearms laws. It is not unlawful to utilize a M16 machinegun bolt carrier in a semiautomatic AR15 type rifle.
Gas key is secured to carrier via USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners and properly staked per Mil-Specs.
Your covered. Great bolt carrier group you picked. Should last a long, long time especially in our "civilian" AR's... :-\
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TW,
You're confirming pretty much what I was thinking. Thanks. I just got an E-Mail from them telling me my order has shipped USPS Priority Mail. Should be here in just a few days. Bill T.
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The big difference is on the bottom at the rear. The AR-15 BC is milled away so it can't hit the auto sear. It should work just fine.
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Frank beat me to it. Friend of mine used to make bolt carriers, there is a difference between them, The FA has more material in some places. That is why you can't convert a semi bolt carrier to FA, where you need to mill the semi BC is stock negative.
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Most of you're quality builders only use full auto carriers for reliability concerns. By removing material from the bottom of the carrier you're altering Gene Stoner's original design. As a general rule rifles run much more reliably with the weight from the full auto carrier. In addition the semi-auto carrier tends to wear out receivers at the extension since they can dip or drop a bit every time they enter or exit the tube.
As far as the BCM carrier it is a very good choice. there are a few carriers out there that are pretty much equal in price and quality. The main things to consider are an MPI tested bolt, the quality of the extractor assembly and a properly staked carrier key. The next thing to look at is the finish of the carrier. BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT, LaRue and Noveske all make a quality Mil-Spec full auto carrier in the $135-$165 range. Every one of these is a good choice. I usually pick up BCG's when I'm ordering other parts from one of these vendors or get The Daniel Defense carrier from Palmetto State Armory. If I'm only ordering a carrier I usually buy it from LaRue. I buy as much as I can from LaRue since they give you so much free swag with your orders. My last order from them was a scope mount and BCG, about $350 total and they enclosed at least $40 (their retail prices) of stuff, a shirt, hat, dillo tool, dillo dust and a scope cover. I love to order from them just to see what free stuff I get.
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BillT,
I use the same charging handle and bolt carrier group in the Frankengun I built. It was spected for me by a friend who shoots lot's of 3 gun and tactical rifle.
So far no troubles what so ever and I have heard only good things about the company.
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let us know how they do
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Forgot to comment on your charging handle, the BCM Gunfighter CH is a great choice. I have them in every rifle I own but one. It has a PRI Gasbuster which costs twice as much but is in my opinion, no better. In fact I could buff the names off the spines on both and set them side by side and gladly pay you $20 if you could identify which was which (if they had the same latch). Your pretty safe in anything you buy from BCM, their brand or others they only deal in quality stuff and stand behind it. They run some insane sales on complete uppers from time to time and even at their regular prices it's hard to build an upper for what they sell them for. Also while on the subject of a complete upper that you couldn't build for what it's on sale for take a look at this: http://www.botachtactical.com/lmtco14uprea.html (http://www.botachtactical.com/lmtco14uprea.html) Not my absolute favorite company, customer service wise but I haven't any real bad experiences with them. Sometimes a little slow to ship and they don't use packing slips but I have had no trouble with refunds and exchanges etc. That's an insane price on the upper though, it's like you get the BCG & CH free.
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All of Colt's AR-15s come from the factory with a FA bolt carrier with intention to be sold to civilians without class III permits. I'm not sure on if the link TW posted is a newer document or what, but I know the older version said that you could not use a M16 BCG or fire control system. I guess I kind of thought that it was written up in a way that if you pissed off the wrong agent he/she could slap you with intent to build if they wanted to, but like I said manufactures are building semi-auto AR-15s with full-auto bolt carriers and selling them to the general public.
Billt, I used the exact same parts for my build that I finished this summer and I love them, so what ever you decide, good luck and have fun with it.
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I'm not sure on if the link TW posted is a newer document or what
It was from the spec page of the BCG at the Bravo Company website, that billt posted.
As long as the trigger, sears, safeties, disconnectors, are stock civilian, UN-modified parts, the FA BCG's make no difference.
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I'm thinking like BAFSU92. If it's got more steel it must be better! ;D Really, I'm with TW on this deal. I think it's all perfectly legal or Bravo would be behind bars, not selling top shelf AR stuff to guys like us. I'll try and post some pics when it arrives. Bill T.
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A Pic is worth a Thousand words.
(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo111/rat31465/ar15carriers.jpg)
The M16 being the full auto bolt in the pic...can't take credit forthe pic as it is a repost from another site I frequent.
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I don't like the looks of that half-circle one. Both of mine are the SP1 style. One's a Colt. The other may be a DPMS but I'm not sure.
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The one marked AR-15 Enhanced is probably from LMT....they make use of the enhanced bolts in their semi-auto carbines.
BATF states that the Full Auto Bolt is not an NFA item and as such they do not regulate them.
Main advantages of the FA Bolt include the extra weight and the manner in which the extra material covers the firing pin.
There are some very good articles on this site... for anything AR, AK, FAL etc...related.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7009
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If anyone has ordered from Bravo Company before, how long was the transit time for Priority Mail? I've heard it can be as little as 2 days? I'm trying to determine when it's coming. Bravo Company doesn't provide tracking numbers, and requires an adult signature upon delivery. Also, will this thing run with a stock AR-15 buffer spring? Bill T.
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If anyone has ordered from Bravo Company before, how long was the transit time for Priority Mail? I've heard it can be as little as 2 days? I'm trying to determine when it's coming. Bravo Company doesn't provide tracking numbers, and requires an adult signature upon delivery. Also, will this thing run with a stock AR-15 buffer spring? Bill T.
That sounds about right for my order.
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2-3 days is about par for the course on BCM orders....my last one was a stripped upper, BCG and Middyu Gas tube and all arrived in 3-days.
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2-3 days is about par for the course on BCM orders....my last one was a stripper upper, BCG and Middyu Gas tube and all arrived in 3-days.
Ditto.
Came right to the door. My Daniel Defense BCG, and charging handle came in a very nice box, on time, I think 3 days. with an AR-15 parts catalog, that is top shelf, Black Guns Magazine, (porn), stickers, and they are straight up. No complaints.
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Another vote on 2-3 days for BCM orders. You are perfectly legal with a full-auto carrier as long as you don't use any other full-auto parts. There was a lot of talk a couple years ago about regulating them but it didn't go anywhere. Anvil Arms was making a real nice carrier that was somewhere between the enhanced semi and the full auto. Basically it was as long as you could make one that didn't engage a full auto sear (if one was installed). They were really nice and took away any chance of being accused of having an evil full auto part in your rifle. Unfortunately Anvil went out of business and the carrier went with them.
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I'm thinking it will arrive tomorrow. Bill T.
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Both it and the charging handle came Friday. I have to say they sure do build a nice Bolt Carrier Group. The charging handle was also beautifully finished. Both slipped into my Bushmaster Modular Carbine with ease. I've got some more stuff coming any minute. I ordered a 62" Drag Bag from Able Ammo, and a Tru-Glo 6-24 X 44 MM scope from Natchez for my Model 60 Marlin .22. I'll try and post some pics when I get everything put together. Bill T.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=15455.msg198762#new
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I have a great Truglo on my Ruger 10-22, the damn thing holds zero everytime. I love when parts just "fit" like a glove.
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I have a great Truglo on my Ruger 10-22, the damn thing holds zero everytime. I love when parts just "fit" like a glove.
That's good to know. I got a POS Weaver "V-22" from the 70's on it now, and it's going into the trash as soon as I get the Tru-Glo. I also have these bases coming from Brownell's. Bill T.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=18690/sku=122-000-011/Product/3_8__DOVETAIL_TO_WEAVER_ADAPTER
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Now I gotta find some type of sight system for my AK (my lady bought for my bday) since I dont know that much about those style of guns. I know Im getting strike force kit for stock and grip.
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Great choices! I run BCM bcg's in all my ar's(7). They are all perfect shooters. I love the gunfighter CH's too, but I run mod4's(medium).
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Now I gotta find some type of sight system for my AK (my lady bought for my bday) since I dont know that much about those style of guns. I know Im getting strike force kit for stock and grip.
Get the stock, get the grip, but as far as a "sight system".,....,.,.,....,.,well, you asked for it,....It's an AK... dig up some Serbian ammo from the 70's and it works...Clean it with boot laces and motor oil,...it still works,....
Alright, we love our guns and care for them,....but it's an AK.... ;)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/crapoffmyak.jpg)
;D
BTW BCM is great stuff.
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Get the stock, get the grip, but as far as a "sight system".,....,.,.,....,.,well, you asked for it,....It's an AK... dig up some Serbian ammo from the 70's and it works...Clean it with boot laces and motor oil,...it still works,....
Alright, we love our guns and care for them,....but it's an AK.... BTW BCM is great stuff.
All of my AK's are stock with standard sights. For that matter so are my AR-15's. I'm finding, even with my crappy 58 year old eyes, standard iron sights on military guns are quite accurate. It's amazing how you can hit with them if you take the time to use them properly. I once scoped a Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Magnum thinking I was going to set the world on fire with my super scope set up. Nothing could have been further from the truth. The thing felt like a brick in my hand and looked as out of place as a spoiler on a stagecoach. I took off the scope and my groups immediately closed up. Yes, it's much different with a long range, bolt action rifle. There a scope is a requirement, not a luxury. But for handguns and battle rifles iron sights are hard to beat. Not to mention far more rugged. Bill T.
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All of my AK's are stock with standard sights. For that matter so are my AR-15's. I'm finding, even with my crappy 58 year old eyes, standard iron sights on military guns are quite accurate. It's amazing how you can hit with them if you take the time to use them properly. I once scoped a Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Magnum thinking I was going to set the world on fire with my super scope set up. Nothing could have been further from the truth. The thing felt like a brick in my hand and looked as out of place as a spoiler on a stagecoach. I took off the scope and my groups immediately closed up. Yes, it's much different with a long range, bolt action rifle. There a scope is a requirement, not a luxury. But for handguns and battle rifles iron sights are hard to beat. Not to mention far more rugged. Bill T.
Couldn't agree more billt, when I was a teenager I thought all rifles needed a scope. Thinking back now I think my highschool friends and I looked ridiculous in the woods of Central Florida with a Marlin 336 or Winchester 94 with a 4-10X50 scope on top. I later realized that in Florida you will rarely if ever need a scope over 3X. Even my "long range" .308 bolt gun wears a 1.5-6. My lever guns are all iron sights only now as well. I only own one scope with high magnification, a 7mm Rem Mag with a 4-12X50 that I've used for a couple hunting trips out west. I've learned my eyes are good enough and most of my shots are within 100 yards so open sights are much easier and lighter to haul around. I do like 0 magnification reflex optics on my AR's and also own a Leupold CQT 1-3 on one AR. My 6.5 grendel will wear a 1-4 GRSC when it's finished but I really like the less is more for optics.
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Great information in this thread. Glad I got to read it cause I had some questions answered.