The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Reloading => Topic started by: DeltaM on November 20, 2012, 08:36:10 AM
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I'm constantly fiddling for different ways to clean brass. We had this old one gallon of apple juice and rather than pour it out thought I'd use it to clean brass. Big mistake. Worked OK but the juice still has the sugars in it. Sticky brass. Exchanged one kind of dirty brass for another.
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Before I make any suggestions, I need to know what the brass is connected to. Is it is an original Colt 1851 revolver or a total brass piece (no wood, no casehardened)? I'm making an assumption that you were trying to clean up a weapon of some type. Has the brass been coated or is it uncoated? For my muzzleloaders, I use plain old hot water (the hotter the better as it dries faster) and soap, or T/C's white bore cleaner. I follow that up with a very light coating of Rem oil. I never use anything that isn't made for or tried and true for black powder guns. I never use Brasso for example as my experience from the Army is that it removes coatings, perpetuates your use of it and removes layers of brass over time! The Army swore by it (because it made you work) and I swore at it. OBTW, even hard apple cider has residual sugars to gum up the works. So, what do you have?
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Before I make any suggestions, I need to know what the brass is connected to. Is it is an original Colt 1851 revolver or a total brass piece (no wood, no casehardened)? I'm making an assumption that you were trying to clean up a weapon of some type. Has the brass been coated or is it uncoated? For my muzzleloaders, I use plain old hot water (the hotter the better as it dries faster) and soap, or T/C's white bore cleaner. I follow that up with a very light coating of Rem oil. I never use anything that isn't made for or tried and true for black powder guns. I never use Brasso for example as my experience from the Army is that it removes coatings, perpetuates your use of it and removes layers of brass over time! The Army swore by it (because it made you work) and I swore at it. OBTW, even hard apple cider has residual sugars to gum up the works. So, what do you have?
Dude, It's the reloading forum.
He's talking about casings.
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Sticky Brass = Bad >:(
I just finished cleaning a gun that I let someone shoot at the range. He was using reloads, and he kept suffering failure to extract. Of course it was my gun and stupid XXX's.
I politely went over to help him clear a jam, and as I picked the case out of the chamber with a knife tip I noticed it was sticky. I offered to run a magazine through to see what was going on. I loaded some factory ammunition from my bag, and the first round was a FTE. He cussed the gun again. After several tries and finally emptying the magazine I reached into his shoebox full of reloads to load the magazine - His cartridges were so sticky it was like they were packed in maple syrup. I mistakenly made a comment for which I was chastised.
I cleaned the gun that night, and have run a mixture of my reloads and factory ammunition through the gun: One hundred plus rounds and not a hiccup!
Nuff said!
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Two questions....
1. How do you make sticky reloads?
2. How do you not notice it?
I guess the answer to 1 might be to use Smuckers for a sizing lubricant and the answer to 2 might be he did notice but he likes the taste?
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I have no idea how he did it. As far as not noticing, I think he is just so stupid he doesn't understand.
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Two questions....
1. How do you make sticky reloads?
2. How do you not notice it?
1. Case lube that is not cleaned after forming would be my guess
2. Ignorance/stupidity cannot be explained and only the former can be addressed.
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Well, Tom, what I know about reloading (other than a muzzle loader) you can put in a nipple. My son is taking it up so I guess I'll learn something over time. What advice should I give him if he makes the dumb mistake of using apple juice or cider to see if it cleans his brass? The only thing I tell my son is to use only that which is designed to do the job, no home remedies.
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Well, Tom, what I know about reloading (other than a muzzle loader) you can put in a nipple. My son is taking it up so I guess I'll learn something over time. What advice should I give him if he makes the dumb mistake of using apple juice or cider to see if it cleans his brass? The only thing I tell my son is to use only that which is designed to do the job, no home remedies.
There's "home remedies", and then there are "home remedies".
A case in point being RTFM's threads on WD - 40 and Ballistol .
Another "home remedy" story, years ago there was a cleaning solvent made by Dow Chemical called "Janitor in a drum".
There was an urban legend that if bald people rubbed it on their heads they would grow hair.
Scientists decided they were going to debunk this potentially dangerous rumor and started researching it.
Good by Janitor in a drum, hello Rogaine.
Turned out it worked.
The thinking in the original post seems to be that apple juice and Cider are mild acids, If it were me I would sooner use vinegar since it's a stronger acid, so it would work faster and it's less likely to leave sticky residue .
The problem would be avoided if they just dry tumbled the brass in corn cobs which is what Thompson Center used to do with their brass parts.
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Another "home remedy" story, years ago there was a cleaning solvent made by Dow Chemical called "Janitor in a drum".
There was an urban legend that if bald people rubbed it on their heads they would grow hair.
Scientists decided they were going to debunk this potentially dangerous rumor and started researching it.
Good by Janitor in a drum, hello Rogaine.
Turned out it worked.
::cough, cough:: bullshit ::cough, cough::
Oral Minoxidil was orignially for high blood pressure.
Patients noticed better hair growth + that's a bigger market = Rogaine
You can still buy Janitor in a Drum.
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::cough, cough:: bullshit ::cough, cough::
Oral Minoxidil was orignially for high blood pressure.
Patients noticed better hair growth + that's a bigger market = Rogaine
You can still buy Janitor in a Drum.
Not according to news stories at the time.
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I tend to be wary of chemical agents, even vinegar, in uses like this.
Having worked in an industry that often used reactants like acids and bases along with metals like brass, copper, aluminum and such I can say that the erosion and resultant weakening of the metal can occur. Not a good thing in a pressurized vessel.
Any cleaning, such as dry tumbling will also erode the material over time, but some chemicals can do it way quicker.
Sometimes, finding a better way isn't always better than the old standard way.
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Two questions....
1. How do you make sticky reloads?
<<< SNIP >>>
Back in the late 1960s I read an article about using motor honey as a case lube.
Worked wonderfully.
However, being designed to be used in an engine to eliminate wear, it had a very superior tack to it.
No matter how hard or long I wiped with a paper towel, the brass was still sticky with lube.
I don't remember what solvent bath I had to use to finally get the brass clean, but do remember that it was more expensive than just using commercial RCBS lube that easily wiped off with a paper towel.
I was afraid to load this sticky brass for fear of greatly increasing the bolt thrust from the cartridge not gripping the chamber walls under pressure.
Anyway, that is how someone can make sticky reloads. (Sticky not slimy)
Steve
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I guess I was spoiled.
After my first go at a lube pad and standard sizing dies, I became a convert to carbide and spray lube.
Would put the cases in the top of a shoe box with the base against the long edge, spray over them and past on the box top for a bit. Lift then end and roll the cases down the lid and back. Very light coat. I wiped them with a rag before placing in a cartridge box, but never felt them to be sticky or even very oily.
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I guess I was spoiled.
After my first go at a lube pad and standard sizing dies, I became a convert to carbide and spray lube.
Would put the cases in the top of a shoe box with the base against the long edge, spray over them and past on the box top for a bit. Lift then end and roll the cases down the lid and back. Very light coat. I wiped them with a rag before placing in a cartridge box, but never felt them to be sticky or even very oily.
I too am a big fan of spray lube... Even make my own.
It rubs off very easily.
The only reason that I tumble to remove lube is the volume of cartridges involved.
When loading small batches, it is easier for me to just wipe off the lube with a paper towel.
The gist of my last post was that choice of case lubricant was probably a factor in the situation being discussed.
Steve
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I understood...
The point of my post wasn't to disagree with you, but to note my range of experience there was limited.
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I too am a big fan of spray lube... Even make my own.
It rubs off very easily.
Steve
Interested to know your recipe.
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Interested to know your recipe.
My lube spray is simply anhydrous lanolin dissolved in pure alcohol from a hardware store.
(Not rubbing alcohol - it has water in it)
I’m moving to a new home next week and all of my records are boxed up so can’t quote the actual ratio of lanolin to alcohol.
However, I started low, and increased the lanolin slowly until the presence on sprayed brass was just detctible when the alcohol evaporated.
It isn't a rocket science formula.
My spray lube has worked well for me for a lot of years.
Steve
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Thanks for the reply.
I have store-bought lubes, but am always interested in the make-it-yourself route, as that is my general nature. ;D
I have heard others (some on here) that use stuff such as saddle soap, which has the lanolin in it.
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<<< SNIP >>>
I have heard others (some on here) that use stuff such as saddle soap, which has the lanolin in it.
I'm no chemist so don't know if saddle soap is hydroscopic. (The soap part)
Introducing something that may attract water isn't something I want to subject my dies to.
The alcohol is reasonably priced and the jar of lanolin was expensive.
However, after about 30 years, I still have more than half a jar of the lanolin left and I reload a lot. (32 different cartridges)
For the average reloader, it is probably cheaper to just buy good commercial sizing lubes.
However, if you are a member of a club, a group buy of a jar of lanolin would be practical.
A couple of tablespoons goes a long way.
Steve
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Saddle soap is mostly lanolin, glycerin, and neatsfoot oil. I have never used it myself for case lube, but a friend's dad used it for years on his large rifle dies that he hand loaded on a single stage press.
I don't know if this is the same as the lanolin you use, but I found these for a decent price at Amazon.
2 oz.
http://www.amazon.com/Lanolin-Anhydrous-Pharmaceutical-Grade/dp/B000V70MWS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1357415220&sr=8-4&keywords=lanolin
4 oz.
http://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Liquid-Lanolin-Pure/dp/B00028MLKC/ref=pd_sim_hpc_4
1 lb.
http://www.amazon.com/Lanolin-anhydrous-Ultra-Refined-Butter/dp/B0050LLKGC/ref=pd_sbs_hpc_5
As to the pure alcohol, is it ethanol?.... and if so, would grain alcohol work since it is pure?
Again, thanks for the info...... I may play chemist and give it a try.
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Saddle soap is mostly lanolin, glycerin, and neatsfoot oil. I have never used it myself for case lube, but a friend's dad used it for years on his large rifle dies that he hand loaded on a single stage press.
I don't know if this is the same as the lanolin you use, but I found these for a decent price at Amazon.
2 oz.
http://www.amazon.com/Lanolin-Anhydrous-Pharmaceutical-Grade/dp/B000V70MWS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1357415220&sr=8-4&keywords=lanolin
4 oz.
http://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Liquid-Lanolin-Pure/dp/B00028MLKC/ref=pd_sim_hpc_4
1 lb.
http://www.amazon.com/Lanolin-anhydrous-Ultra-Refined-Butter/dp/B0050LLKGC/ref=pd_sbs_hpc_5
As to the pure alcohol, is it ethanol?.... and if so, would grain alcohol work since it is pure?
Again, thanks for the info...... I may play chemist and give it a try.
Wow, wish I could have found it in that small a container.
My tub of Pharmaceutical Grade Anhydrous Lanolin is the size of a large cottage cheese container.
It is a soft white about the consistency of peanut butter.
Any solvent that will completely evaporate and leave the lanolin film will work.
I bought a quart of denatured alcohol from a hardware store to use.
Steve
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Wow, wish I could have found it in that small a container.
My tub of Pharmaceutical Grade Anhydrous Lanolin is the size of a large cottage cheese container.
It is a soft white about the consistency of peanut butter.
Any solvent that will completely evaporate and leave the lanolin film will work.
I bought a quart of denatured alcohol from a hardware store to use.
Steve
Ah ha!! denatured alcohol.....
I was trying to think of that and my brain was failing at the time. ;D
They have it at CVS, and wally world also, but I'd also rather spend the money at the local hardware store if they have it.
Thanks again for the info.