The Down Range Forum
Flying Dragon Productions ( Michael Bane ) => Michael Bane on the Radio => Topic started by: ellis4538 on August 14, 2008, 05:50:01 PM
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Finally got to listen to Podcast #72 and couldn't agree more about the Olympic pistol shooting side of things. I remember reading an article in "American Handgunner" (I believe) where some of our top USPSA shooters went to Colorado to check out Olympic style shooting. The outcome, if I remember correctly, was that they did very well in these challenging disciplines. Stearing some of our talented young shooters into this area would be a good thing for the USA. I see only one problem. They are very demanding and not as exciting as USPSA or even IDPA and the lure of sponsorship money or what ever they call it is not there even if you are successful, as MB pointed out.
JMHO
Richard
PS: The rest of the PC was also good and am looking forward to tuning in for Best Defense!
PPS: I remember some of the founders of USPSA tried to get USPSA type shooting as an Olympic "Demo Sport" to no avail.
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Wow Mr Bane. You invited comment on your podcast so here goes....I differ in your calling folks who decide to not carry - sheep. I have no problem understanding that in any culture there are lots of folks who are not willing to take another’s life. That is just the way humans are built. They generally don’t look forward to killing other folks. Nor dwell on it much. The wet wiring of the brain is just designed that way. (I reference the first shot studies the Army has done over several wars)
I don't see a need to wear a nomex suit and helmet when I drive my car. I am a responsible driver. On the very small chance I might be involved in a fiery crash I think that is a reasonable behavior. You correctly pointed out that if you stay away from strip joints at 3am in morning your chances of encountering criminal behavior go way down. Based on that, a person can make a reasonable choice that being armed ALL the time isn’t necessary.
So some folks examine their lifestyle, their own background and personal beliefs and decide not to carry ALL the time or never. I don’t have any less respect for them if they decide such. Taking your argument further folks should be wearing body armor for much of the day. I prefer to think that gearing up like a guy in a Delta team doesn’t make much sense nor is healthy.
So the point is, if someone is fixated on self defense, so be it. Its good for the gun and ammo manufacturers and training industry. Makes them lots of money. If someone isn't, well pretty much the same, so be it.
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Mr. Bane,
I am listening to your podcast, and you said to let you know what we'd like to see and you'd like us to be more involved in comp. shooting...
Well I have an invite for you! For a possible show that no other show has ever covered!!!!
On October 1-5, The N-ssa, North-South Skirmish Association, is holding there 118th National shoot in Winchester Virginia.
We shoot Civil War firearms only. Musket, carbine, pistol, henry rifles, smoothbore and rifled musket, CANNON and MORTOR! This is all live fire, full blow comp in uniform. Teams are named from actual units from both the North and the South. Shooting is both Bulls-eye and team timed breakable events.
I have belonged to the N-ssa, 1st Pennsylvania Artillery MA-007 for 15 years, past unit commander. Curently my wife is the second in command to my unit.......YES GIRLS SHOOT COMP TOO!!!!!
Here is the link to the web site http://www.n-ssa.org/
and my e-mail is rjsixgun@hotmail.com
please feel free to contack me if you or any of your listeners are interested.
I will be more than happy to put you in-touch with all the nessisary people for all the leagal stuff.
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Wow Mr Bane. You invited comment on your podcast so here goes....I differ in your calling folks who decide to not carry - sheep. I have no problem understanding that in any culture there are lots of folks who are not willing to take another’s life. That is just the way humans are built. They generally don’t look forward to killing other folks. Nor dwell on it much. The wet wiring of the brain is just designed that way. (I reference the first shot studies the Army has done over several wars)
I don't see a need to wear a nomex suit and helmet when I drive my car. I am a responsible driver. On the very small chance I might be involved in a fiery crash I think that is a reasonable behavior. You correctly pointed out that if you stay away from strip joints at 3am in morning your chances of encountering criminal behavior go way down. Based on that, a person can make a reasonable choice that being armed ALL the time isn’t necessary.
So some folks examine their lifestyle, their own background and personal beliefs and decide not to carry ALL the time or never. I don’t have any less respect for them if they decide such. Taking your argument further folks should be wearing body armor for much of the day. I prefer to think that gearing up like a guy in a Delta team doesn’t make much sense nor is healthy.
So the point is, if someone is fixated on self defense, so be it. Its good for the gun and ammo manufacturers and training industry. Makes them lots of money. If someone isn't, well pretty much the same, so be it.
You mean you DON"T make any effort to safeguard your wife and children ? Do you skip the Health insurance and fire extinguishers to, because your not planning to get sick or have a fire ? You sir, are an irresponsible person and I ask you , Why should the police risk their lives to do for you what you are to lazy to do for yourself ?
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You mean you DON"T make any effort to safeguard your wife and children ? Do you skip the Health insurance and fire extinguishers to, because your not planning to get sick or have a fire ? You sir, are an irresponsible person and I ask you , Why should the police risk their lives to do for you what you are to lazy to do for yourself ?
Especially since they are not legally obligated to intervene during the crime, only draw the chalk lines afterwards.
BTW, does anyone have citations for the fact that cops are not obligated to intervene during a crime? I know that came out first (at least that I heard) after the 1988 WTO riots in Seattle, when the businesses sued the city for having the cops stand around out of danger while the riots were going on. What are the legal citations tho?
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Especially since they are not legally obligated to intervene during the crime, only draw the chalk lines afterwards.
BTW, does anyone have citations for the fact that cops are not obligated to intervene during a crime? I know that came out first (at least that I heard) after the 1988 WTO riots in Seattle, when the businesses sued the city for having the cops stand around out of danger while the riots were going on. What are the legal citations tho?
It was a 70's SCOTUS case in DC, 2 women raped and bearen for several hours, called cops 2 or 3 times and they only drove by, Scotus ruled that a Cops job is to Catch criminals after the crime not prevent or intervene.
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You mean you DON"T make any effort to safeguard your wife and children ? Do you skip the Health insurance and fire extinguishers to, because your not planning to get sick or have a fire ? ...............................
That's part of my motivation and the remainder is just standing up for my right to live without someone "putting their hands" on me. That's why my family can handle and fire a weapon. I know people who have grown up in some safe, white bread neighborhood and think that crime is an object that affects only say, ugly people like me. Crime is not an object, ink on a piece of paper, a statistic for the masses or a mindless occurrence that concentrates within a sphere of economic starvation (like that really exists here in the U.S.).
Crime is a thinking, plotting murderous beast that lives and breathes. Crime is at once both sick and perverted. Crime actively searches out victims....the more helpless, defenseless and less alert the better. Think no....then why do 80 year old women get raped?
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You mean you DON"T make any effort to safeguard your wife and children ? Do you skip the Health insurance and fire extinguishers to, because your not planning to get sick or have a fire ? You sir, are an irresponsible person and I ask you , Why should the police risk their lives to do for you what you are to lazy to do for yourself ?
Well I didn't say that I had abrogated any responsibility for protection of self or family. Far from it. What I objected to is the dismissive condescending attitude toward others that elected to not be armed ALL the time.
From a purely personal perspective I have shaped my world view having been exposed at an early age to violence both personal and societal. Been around violent criminals. Had to step over dead bodies in my ghetto apartment building. Been next door to drug dealers. Seen local shop owners gunned down. Been in a half dozen riots of the 1960’s. Been around stabbings and shootings. Been around big city swat raids going down. Had to be armed one way or the other to survive the day. Been in that siege mentality. At a point in time I decided that this wasn’t the way to live. I worked my ass off to make sure I would not be exposed to stuff like that again. The formula I determined was the most sure of success was to get a good education and buy my way out. Make money, stop hanging around low life’s, separate myself from the violent class by geography and move up the social ladder. That in and of itself would do much more to protect me in the long run than trying to become the ninja warrior. Tried that. Spent time in martial arts. Saw the same siege mentality there also. “Everyone is a potential threat”. Saw the guys who wanted to kick ass because someone slipped into the elevator before them. I could make the same argument that if you aren’t in the dojo training 3 times a week you are not being responsible about your safety. Sorry not me. As a libertarian I really don’t care what other people do. If that is the way someone wishes to live life so be it. I exercise a “reasonable” amount of care in where I am and who I associate with. Doesn’t mean I don’t have defensive means available. They just are not my 24 hour a day focus and not every person or situation is worthy of a battle plan.
As for the police “having” to protect me that argument doesn’t wash with me. That is what I pay taxes for. The old lady in the wheelchair that can’t protect herself does that mean she doesn’t deserve police protection? No I say. Cops volunteer for the job. If they don’t wish to “serve” tell them to quit. They get paid for the risk.
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MB,in regards to the format for SG I 'm gung-ho on shows about competition (USPSA,IPSC,IDPA,SC,SASS,3 gun,sporting clays,skeet,trap.bullseye,high power anything as long as you pull a trigger & it goes bang) with the emphasis on training,techniques & equipment. I personally DO NOT want to see the average shooter pulling the trigger.Show the Top Guns doing it the right way I can videotape myself if I want to see it done WRONG!As far as showing results I have no problem showing the winner but a list of the top 16 is a waste. I also like the shows on the shooting schools.Remember MB you need to show us the Path to Perfect Practice,Shot Placement & Trigger Pull.
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Well I didn't say that I had abrogated any responsibility for protection of self or family. Far from it. What I objected to is the dismissive condescending attitude toward others that elected to not be armed ALL the time.
From a purely personal perspective I have shaped my world view having been exposed at an early age to violence both personal and societal. Been around violent criminals. Had to step over dead bodies in my ghetto apartment building. Been next door to drug dealers. Seen local shop owners gunned down. Been in a half dozen riots of the 1960’s. Been around stabbings and shootings. Been around big city swat raids going down. Had to be armed one way or the other to survive the day. Been in that siege mentality. At a point in time I decided that this wasn’t the way to live. I worked my ass off to make sure I would not be exposed to stuff like that again. The formula I determined was the most sure of success was to get a good education and buy my way out. Make money, stop hanging around low life’s, separate myself from the violent class by geography and move up the social ladder. That in and of itself would do much more to protect me in the long run than trying to become the ninja warrior. Tried that. Spent time in martial arts. Saw the same siege mentality there also. “Everyone is a potential threat”. Saw the guys who wanted to kick ass because someone slipped into the elevator before them. I could make the same argument that if you aren’t in the dojo training 3 times a week you are not being responsible about your safety. Sorry not me. As a libertarian I really don’t care what other people do. If that is the way someone wishes to live life so be it. I exercise a “reasonable” amount of care in where I am and who I associate with. Doesn’t mean I don’t have defensive means available. They just are not my 24 hour a day focus and not every person or situation is worthy of a battle plan.
As for the police “having” to protect me that argument doesn’t wash with me. That is what I pay taxes for. The old lady in the wheelchair that can’t protect herself does that mean she doesn’t deserve police protection? No I say. Cops volunteer for the job. If they don’t wish to “serve” tell them to quit. They get paid for the risk.
As a young man I also lived in the Most crime ridden parts of town and associated with the "Criminal classes" through the course of a normal day( Former neighbors now doing time for things ranging from drug and gun dealing to robbery and murder). The only time I have drawn a fire arm in self defense was when I had married and moved to a nicer neighbor hood, My ex wife and I were taking a drive in the Mountains when we came to a car partialy blocking the road, as my wife slowly drove past a guy standing by the car made a grab for her door in an attempted car jacking, he changed his mind when he was looking down the barrel of my .357.
Actually what your taxes pay for is to have the Police draw a chalk out line around your corpse, and make an 86% unsuccessful attempt to apprehend your killer. That SCOTUS case in DC determined that the job of police is to catch people who have already committed crimes, not to stop them in the process . You might be interested to know that the only violent crime with a closure rate higher than 50% is bank robbery according to the FBI statistics.
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Not to hijack the thread, but Mr. Bane was speaking about tactical shotguns in his podcast and mentioned that Benelli's superstar tactical gun was the M1 and that it was inertia operated. That is true, but I would also like to point out that the Benelli shotgun that the U.S. Armed Forces adopted is actually the M4. The M4, like the FNH SLP, is gas operated. So, I would think that it would be low recoiling as well. I believe there was reliability problems with the inertia system when heavy optics were mounted on it, so Benelli switched to the ARGO (Auto-Regulating Gas Operating System). The M4 is also available to civilians as well. :D
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Tom, I do enjoy the discussion. It is with this kind of civil discourse that I become better informed (on occassion :) ) and I hope maybe I help others to understand why honest folks can differ in their thinking. From your other posts I think we agree probably 90% of the time. I made my points and now I am going to lock my doors, say my prayers and go to bed.
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Tom, I do enjoy the discussion. It is with this kind of civil discourse that I become better informed (on occassion :) ) and I hope maybe I help others to understand why honest folks can differ in their thinking. From your other posts I think we agree probably 90% of the time. I made my points and now I am going to lock my doors, say my prayers and go to bed.
;D
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Hey Michael,
I just listened to this weeks episode and I would like you to consider showing the process one has to go through to become a NRA Cert. Instructor. And other things like that. Things that will help enable the rest of us to become better advocates for the shooting world. I think we would benefit if we had some episodes on the process. I.E how easy or hard it is, what the course is like. Maybe follow someone through the process to become an Instructor.
Thanks
Guns-R-Us
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Hey Michael,
I just listened to this weeks episode and I would like you to consider showing the process one has to go through to become a NRA Cert. Instructor. And other things like that. Things that will help enable the rest of us to become better advocates for the shooting world. I think we would benefit if we had some episodes on the process. I.E how easy or hard it is, what the course is like. Maybe follow someone through the process to become an Instructor.
Thanks
Guns-R-Us
Good idea.
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There is no better way to give back then to teach new shooters, young and old, men and women alike. Great idea for SG but don't wait for show. Just contact the NRA now....
http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/instructor.asp
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Mr. Bane,
You bring up some interesting questions on competition shooting. I am interested in the people that are winning, what gear and guns they're using, and what I can learn from them. Seeing the rundown of the top 10 or so shooters isn't boring as long as it's not the whole focus of the segment. I like to know who these people are and what they're capable of, if for no other reason than it keeps a body humble and hungry.
Guns-r-us has an interesting idea, in showing us how to become better ambassadors for our sport. That's not something often discussed, but when people find out you're affiliated with guns in some way, you are representative for the entire community.
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MB,
The "know how" and learning is what I like about SG. I'm not a competive shooter. But love to learn from them. Any and all info I can get that helps me become a better shooter is always welcome.
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I personally enjoy following the competitions. Although I don't compete. I'd love to get into IDPA, but time, money, and lack of a good place to practice prevent me from doing so. As for the show, I'm interested in the people, the techniques/tactics, and of course the gear.
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Michael,
One of the things that always made SG a favorite of mine was the general lack of a theme. One show might be about one thing, the next about another. I always enjoy the guest appearances by instructors and experts in one discipline or another. I enjoy the competition shows, but to me there is already a lot of that offered by other programs as well, and when a program becomes too repetitive I lose my interest. (ADD moment I guess). If you want to know what I like, well I like it all. The instruction, history, science, and the people of the culture. I was hoping this input would help, but it just might make things harder :)