The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Walter45Auto on October 19, 2007, 12:52:14 AM
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I'm wondering What all of you think of the Wilderness Safe Packer. How easy is it to draw?? I can see from their website demonstration that there's 3 or 4 different ways to deploy the Pistol. Michael, I know you love it and sing its praises; especially for car carry. I'd like to see a DRTV video showing some of its basic use a bit more clearly. Anyway, what's y'all's opinion of it?
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Michael,
How about a Safe Packer demo for DRTV? They stock Safe Packers at the Gunsite Pro-Shop, and you're going back to Gunsite soon - to wring out the new Ruger SR9. Sounds like a perfect opportunity for a DRTV Safe Packer Demo, while testing Ruger's new SR9 at Gunsite!
Oh, and while you're at it, how about approaching The Wilderness with THIS handy clue? Lots of us who work in non-permissive environments would stand out like a sore thumb, wearing a "Tactical Black Nylon" Safe Packer. How about some non-tactical colors? I'm pretty sure they can get nylon in khaki, these days - or royal blue, day-glow orange, or Barbie-Pink! Even black leather would be welcome: Something that would sorta "blend" with "Office Casual" or "Mall Casual" attire.
If The Wilderness is selling all they can make of the black nylon Safe Packers, they may not have any business incentive to offer alternative colors / materials - but if they want to do their customer base a significant favor, they'll consider how people dress when they're not in the woods or desert.
-KBS (Wearing a khaki Instructor Belt from The Wilderness as he types - it IS "Casual Friday," after all.)
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Hey, contact Wilderness Tactical and tell them. Then tell them I agree with you! I have had long talks with them on adding colors. At one point, I got them to add an OD green, but it didn't sell at all. I think lack of color is the only drawback to the SafePacker — I have three and use them all the time. In fact, I have one that is the "home away from the belt" formy daily carry gun. When the gun is not on my belt, it's in the SafePacker with a couple of extra mags. That way, I can pick it up and carry it in situations where I don't want to put it on my belt (very common in summer casual clothes).
I have been asked by a woman in a restaurant where she could get one of those "neat PDA holders." It would be great to have a dark red or a sand/desert color.
I'll get a video put together!
Michael B
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Well, I just checked The Wilderness Tactical website and was surprised to learn that in addition to black, Safepackers are now available in Realtree and Mossy Oak camo.
That's nice. But if I'm wearing a tree suit, I can probably wear a brown leather flap holster without spooking the critters. Desert Tan would be a great color to add, because it would work as well for our young men and women in The Sandbox as it would for me wearing Chinos in the office or at the mall. Although fashion advisors have commented that "black is the new black," a dark-red or desert-tan "man-purse" would coordinate better with my other outfits - when I'm not dressed like Johnny Cash.
I'll try that logic on the folks at The Wilderness.
-KBS
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My issue with carrying using a standard holster is keeping it concealed...unless it is winter, and then what if I want to take my jacket off in the store? The safe packer is the next best thing to open carry IMO. I carry a Hi-power in one and it works great. It is on my belt (a Wilderness Tac belt BTW) out in the open, and nobody blinks an eye at it. Even while wearing shorts and a T-shirt. It protects the gun from bumping and rubbing against objects. It works great as an off the belt carrying case. With a little practice you can draw just fine with it. Being that it is usually not covered by a ‘cover’ garment drawing can be quicker than having to draw from a concealed holster.
The only issues I have are they are bit heavy on the belt with an full size gun an extra mag. Drawing in a car (if right handed) is hard/impossible if in the drivers seat. If carrying an extra mag it is a bit uncomfortable sitting in a car seat. Now if you don’t put an extra mag in, it feels then same as with my carry holster. With a smaller gun and Safe Packer these issues will probably be non-issues.
As far as sticking out with a black safe packer…To the untrained eye, it looks like a square nylon holder for a PDA or such, as Michael found out. I think you stick out more wearing a fanny pack or vest. A long vest or fanny pack almost guarantees you are carrying.
BTW I have three...and two of their belts. ;)
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I also use a Safe Packer all of the time and nobody has a clue what's in it. Highly recommended!!!
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I remember seeing on one forum, www.glocktalk.com I believe, a guy who's a medical assistant who carries one on duty. He says everybody just takes it for a medical kit. And since he keeps some of his medical stuff in it anyway (In addition to his pistol, of course.), they're right. My main concern is will I be able to get a quick and smooth enough draw should I ever have to use the gun. The easier to use, the better. The less special steps to remember, the better as well. That's why I'm looking forward to Michael's Safepacker video on DRTV. I personally wouldn't use it for off body carry unless I'd be in the car most of the day. I'm a bit too scatterbrained and forgetful for off body carry. I don't like that little risk that comes with off body carry; The one of leaving your gun on the restaurant table/office/the back of a public toilet. I don't think I'd forget my gun, but the risk is there and I think it's a little much of one for me.
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Off-body carry has its drawbacks.
I remember getting home from dining with my Significant Sweety at a nice Italian restaurant on a winter evening, and piling my coat over the back of a chair on my way to stuff the doggy-bag in the fridge - when I realized that I wasn't carrying the Dillon "Day Planner" that concealed my Officer's ACP. Oops.
Checked under my coat: No Planner. Checked the floor of the truck: No Planner. Dashed back to the the restaurant to check the booth where we'd been sitting. No Planner. Asked the staff if anyone had found or turned in a day-planner. "We're very sorry, sir."
Turned out it had slid behind the seat-back, and under the seat - wedged behind the tire-jack. Well, THAT was pretty exciting!
But the worst aspect of off-body carry is "Hick's Law" of performance phenomena: Decision time is proportional to the log of the number of alternatives. How many places are there off your body where your gun might be?
A defensive speed-draw should be a kinesthetically conditioned-reflex, which argues for one gun, in one place, all the time (not counting BUGs). With off-body carry, your hand can't just reflexively sock onto the pistol-grip - you have to figure out where you left the pistol, and then access it.
The advantage of the Safe-Packer is that it can be worn in a normal carry location on a trouser belt, but it doesn't look quite as informal (and shout GUN!) as a butt-pack. Pinching the Fastex Buckle open so you can get under the flap isn't as quick as an open-top rig, but at least the pistol is located where you reach for it.
-KBS
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But the worst aspect of off-body carry is "Hick's Law" of performance phenomena: Decision time is proportional to the log of the number of alternatives. How many places are there off your body where your gun might be?
A defensive speed-draw should be a kinesthetically conditioned-reflex, which argues for one gun, in one place, all the time (not counting BUGs). With off-body carry, your hand can't just reflexively sock onto the pistol-grip - you have to figure out where you left the pistol, and then access it.
The advantage of the Safe-Packer is that it can be worn in a normal carry location on a trouser belt, but it doesn't look quite as informal (and shout GUN!) as a butt-pack. Pinching the Fastex Buckle open so you can get under the flap isn't as quick as an open-top rig, but at least the pistol is located where you reach for it.
Which brings us to WHY I asked how easy/fast is the draw with the Safepacker.
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...With a little practice it is no worse (IMO) that drawing from a concealed holster
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From the MB Blog: "The SafePacker is now finally available in coyote..."
Woohoo! Maybe they read this Forum? Anyhow, now I can wear one that "blends" with chinos! 8)
-KBS
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Have written pretty extensively about this in the Back When...off-body carry mandates that you be willing to go to the gun sooner than you would with the gun in a holster. Ideally, off-body carry allows you to go to the gun with some stealth, as does the SafePacker. My "ready" position with the SafePacker is something like this:
1) SafePacker stablized with left hand.
2) Unlatch SafePacker and insert hand.
3) Get a good firing grip in the gun.
4) Smile, smile, smile
Michael B
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How about:
1. gun in pocket
2. Smile, Smile, Smile
3. put hand in pocket
4. Blow some holes in pocket
5. Smile, smile, smile
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Michael,
Where do you position the Safe Packer on your belt - that permits stabilizing it with your left hand while obtaining a firing-grip with your right hand?
-KBS