The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: Rob Pincus on August 04, 2009, 04:42:00 PM
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Okay, I'm taking my new "bargain" carbine to a course next week.... after accessorizing, I'm planning on still being under $800 (including red dot) retail.
Looking forward to seeing how it runs. I'll post an AAR and pics in this thread.
-RJP
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Who did you wind up going with, Rob?
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Tactical Response.
In a genius stroke of efficiency, I get to check off several boxes (train with AK, Train with Tac-Response, meet with a new instructor in region, take a long motorcycle trip this summer, +, +) during the only week that I really had "open" in August. I had a .mil course get postponed to Sept, so it worked out well that Yeager had something on his schedule!
-RJP
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Motorcycle trip and AK course? That'll get some stares. The Pincus traveling on his hog with an AK strapped to his back. ;D
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"The Pincus traveling on his hog with an AK strapped to his back. "
I got a buddy does it all the time, he puts the soft case on the handlebars behind the windscreen.
Rob, please take pics, and if anyone is using the LaRue red dot, in place of the rear sight, let us know what you think, my friend Paul Gomez has one, but I have not had time to go check it out, sounds and looks very usable. I love AR's, but have never discounted AK's or SKS's, that take the detachable AK mag. I think you will find it very usable, especially in an urban setting, 200 meters or less, and if applied correctly, further.
Have fun.
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The most important accessory for an AK is a good set of gloves. My hands end up a mess from all the sharp edges after a day of training.
Have fun.
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I'm really surprised these courses with AK-47's aren't far more popular than the AR-15 courses of the same nature. For one the guns are cheaper, and far more reliable! I know this will bring about a great many comments, but the fact remains the assault rifle of choice worldwide is the Kalashnikov. People need to accept that fact. I get so sick and tired of Colt lovers not accepting the FACT the AK-47 is the worldwide carbine of choice for war. I own and shoot a total of 7 AR-15 rifles, and love them all like children, but that does not excuse the fact the AK-47 is the greatest war rifle ever developed! PERIOD! I don't mean to offend with pure fact. Bill T.
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As long as I'm on the warpath defending the AK-47, I don't see any carbine course with said weapon as a "bargain". The AK-47 is as deserving of a "premium price" as any overpriced AR-15! Of which, by the way, I own several! Bill T.
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As long as I'm on the warpath defending the AK-47, I don't see any carbine course with said weapon as a "bargain". The AK-47 is as deserving of a "premium price" as any overpriced AR-15! Of which, by the way, I own several! Bill T.
You want to pay more for an AK? ???
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As long as I'm on the warpath defending the AK-47, I don't see any carbine course with said weapon as a "bargain". The AK-47 is as deserving of a "premium price" as any overpriced AR-15! Of which, by the way, I own several! Bill T.
Yes it is called a Valmet.
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I'm really surprised these courses with AK-47's aren't far more popular than the AR-15 courses of the same nature. For one the guns are cheaper, and far more reliable! I know this will bring about a great many comments, but the fact remains the assault rifle of choice worldwide is the Kalashnikov. People need to accept that fact. I get so sick and tired of Colt lovers not accepting the FACT the AK-47 is the worldwide carbine of choice for war. I own and shoot a total of 7 AR-15 rifles, and love them all like children, but that does not excuse the fact the AK-47 is the greatest war rifle ever developed! PERIOD! I don't mean to offend with pure fact. Bill T.
You have to remember Bill that a certain amount of the "popularity" of the AK is due to the fact that the Soviet Union gave thousands of them to any one with a beef against the west. During the Cold War the US was the leading arms supplier in the world based on value, We were selling air craft, ships and armored vehicles, but VOLUME wise the Soviets took the prize hands down, distributing tens of thousands of tons of AK's and RPG's to every one from China to the IRA.
With that in mind if you were in a third world country would you pick the weapon that you wanted, or the one that was free ?
Not trying to down the AK, it IS reliable, but you don't see to many of them at shooting matches. Just pointing out that the proliferation of them around the world is not necessarily by choice.
Note, The Sandinista's in Nicaragua used M16's that they were given by North Vietnam.
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Yes it is called a Valmet.
;D ;D ;D ;D Bill T.
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You have to remember Bill that a certain amount of the "popularity" of the AK is due to the fact that the Soviet Union gave thousands of them to any one with a beef against the west. During the Cold War the US was the leading arms supplier in the world based on value, We were selling air craft, ships and armored vehicles, but VOLUME wise the Soviets took the prize hands down, distributing tens of thousands of tons of AK's and RPG's to every one from China to the IRA.
With that in mind if you were in a third world country would you pick the weapon that you wanted, or the one that was free ?
Not trying to down the AK, it IS reliable, but you don't see to many of them at shooting matches. Just pointing out that the proliferation of them around the world is not necessarily by choice.
Perhaps we should have done much the same???? Better than "Cash For Clunkers"??? Bill T.
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Cash for Colt's ? Works for me ! ;D
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800 miles the bike with the AK strapped to the side in a Sneaky Bag.... no problem (at least not with the AK & other gear.... I did have to replace the ignition switch about 200 miles into the ride!).
The AK is set up for the course with aftermarket stock (tapco), forend rail (UMG) and the cheapest Red dot I could find (Redhead) and I did splurge on a good sling from MagPul (because I want more time with the design). I'm still under $800. If I really tried, I could probably build am AR Type with similar configuration for that amount of money (again, retail pricing), but I wouldn't have much faith in it. We'll see how the AK performs tomorrow!
-RJP
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800 miles the bike with the AK strapped to the side in a Sneaky Bag.... no problem (at least not with the AK & other gear.... I did have to replace the ignition switch about 200 miles into the ride!).
The AK is set up for the course with aftermarket stock (tapco), forend rail (UMG) and the cheapest Red dot I could find (Redhead) and I did splurge on a good sling from MagPul (because I want more time with the design). I'm still under $800. If I really tried, I could probably build am AR Type with similar configuration for that amount of money (again, retail pricing), but I wouldn't have much faith in it. We'll see how the AK performs tomorrow!
-RJP
Stinks about the ignition.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the AK.
Keep us posted and have fun.
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Class went well! Rifle ran great!
Details here: http://www.downrange.tv/blog/?p=655 (http://www.downrange.tv/blog/?p=655)
-RJP
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Class went well! Rifle ran great!
Details here: http://www.downrange.tv/blog/?p=655 (http://www.downrange.tv/blog/?p=655)
-RJP
Great run down, Rob. Thanks!
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Glad it worked out for you. And yes, the AK is a brick, but after the AR mag changes are a PITA. ;D
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The VERY best add on to my AK HANDS DOWN was my Larue IronDot rear sight.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Qv_uM-YuFUw/SSWmSJCyOoI/AAAAAAAABS8/xWiiDzjwEuc/s400/larue_irondot_bare_300_bf.jpg)
(http://www.laruetactical.com/pics/laruetacticalak-irondot/myalbum/p8260444.jpg)
Allows you to have red dot and still retain rear sight.
I've been talking to LMS (Last Man Standing) they have Paul Gomez teach an AK coarse and suppose to have one "soon" in Salt Lake City (closest to me) which is suppose to be a real good AK coarse too.
http://www.ak-47.us/Article_Detail.php?g=content1174533665
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Have you checked out Gabe Suarez ?
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Have you checked out Gabe Suarez ?
only you would bring that name up ::)
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only you would bring that name up ::)
What is that supposed to mean ?
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I will temper my response , since I have a history of volitarity. hes a money making , suck the wind out of any trainer and wants your money, and has no better knowledge of the AK than I do . Its a simple weapon, made for stupid people, which runs forever without being cleaned. And as far as tactics go, any Battle rifle will be used in the same way. there is NO magic GURU for the AK.
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I will temper my response , since I have a history of volitarity. hes a money making , suck the wind out of any trainer and wants your money, and has no better knowledge of the AK than I do . Its a simple weapon, made for stupid people, which runs forever without being cleaned. And as far as tactics go, any Battle rifle will be used in the same way. there is NO magic GURU for the AK.
Rob, What do you think ?
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If I may... I agree with. "Its a simple weapon, made for stupid people, which runs forever without being cleaned.", but most EVERYBODY can use at least a little refining on their weapon handling under fire skills. There are little tricks and tips for changing magazines, close quarters handling, weapon presentation, changing weapons (when out of ammo or such), firing from vehicles, exc., exc. that a class can help A LOT with.
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If I may... I agree with. "Its a simple weapon, made for stupid people, which runs forever without being cleaned.", but most EVERYBODY can use at least a little refining on their weapon handling under fire skills. There are little tricks and tips for changing magazines, close quarters handling, weapon presentation, changing weapons (when out of ammo or such), firing from vehicles, exc., exc. that a class can help A LOT with.
I agree that one needs a good knowledge and function check of any weapon, and this one is probably the easiest rifle to get a good working knowledge of. The mag swap is a piece of cake, much easier and faster than the AR. And point and shoot IMO is faster also. A good AK is a damn fine rifle, not a great battle rifle, but a great 200m rifle.
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I agree that one needs a good knowledge and function check of any weapon, and this one is probably the easiest rifle to get a good working knowledge of. The mag swap is a piece of cake, much easier and faster than the AR. And point and shoot IMO is faster also. A good AK is a damn fine rifle, not a great battle rifle, but a great 200m rifle.
That IS sarcasm, right ? ???
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There are kids in the "sand pit" that hand load brass picked up in the desert, No precision tools or dies, no precision scales, or even a Dillon press.
Yet, they can make thousands of rounds a week of ammo that WILL FIRE in the AK's 99% of the time. The AK user is not interested in precision. It is an urban rifle, to be used in close quarters, and designed to be sloppy, WHY???
So it goes BANG!!! Old ammo, old mags, dirty bore, get shoelaces with motor oil and swab the barrel and reload....
That's it. The frills and fancy were never part of the AK design.
It is the Zombie gun, and just like the pride in the 1911 platform that we have, the AK was and is holding up as one of the best rifles ever made.
Even the Romanian crap... ::)
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2HOW's probably refering to the entire reloading process. Not just pulling out the old mag and popping in the new one. The charging handle on AR's is as dumb a thing as I've ever seen on a firearm (personal opinion!), and thats putting it very lightly.
My choice as best AK add on EVER. The "lightning bolt". BRILLIANT! VERY FAST!!
That, a synthetic stock to fit the shooters taste, and maybe an optic. = FIREARM PERFECTION!
Watch the video! Love it!
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/11/17/ak-lightning-bolt-left-hand-side-charging-handle/
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Cool bolt. Thanks Badger. I appreciate the tip. The Lightning Bolt looks like a real winner. Fast, easy, improved, operation.
Makes you want to slap your forehead with one of those "why didn't I think of that" pops. A simple idea and a great fix.
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Sorry guys, I was overseas for a few days and haven't checked in....
Rob, What do you think ?
I have long maintained that personalities shouldn't be the driving force behind the choice to train with someone. If someone is putting out good information and solid training, then there is value in attending that training. Of course, if you can pay someone you like to teach you the same thing as someone who you don't know or don't like, then you may as well go with the first choice...
I recently had a little incident of plagiarism, attribution, sidestepping of the need to attribute and then passive-aggressive derision over at Mr. Suarez's Forum:
http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=57831
I was disappointed to say the least.
I have heard good things about the Suarez AK classes, but I haven't heard anything that makes them stand out above other options.
-RJP
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Along the topic of several current threads. Read this. Several interesting bits.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/category/rifles/
(http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/BAD-tm.jpg)
Hmmmm.
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I think I pee'd a little! Look close at this!
(http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/albums-mm118-magpuldynamics08-img-2182.jpg)
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/12/22/mag-k-001-unqiue-magpul-ak-build/
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=21713/Product/AK_47_MULTI_RAIL_FOREND_SYSTEM___SCOUT_MOUNT
"Mount replaces the gas tube and attaches directly to the barrel with 4140 steel clamps ". Nice!
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How opinions change...
http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=454&Itemid=65
Relied on an AK over his "trusted AR that was left in the truck", BUT still thinks the AR is the better weapon. Sounds like years of US training dieing very hard / bull headedness. Stagering how hard it is to accept reality sometimes! AR's are super on paper, or playing shooting games, in an unrealistic world.