The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: billt on September 18, 2016, 06:40:00 PM
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I have a Sig P-226 SCT that came with rubber grips from the factory. The picture below is when I first bought it. I decided to pick up a nice set of Sig wood grips that were on sale from CDNN. These are the grips. Note they are of Sig Sauer manufacture.
https://www.cdnnsports.com/sig-sauer-p226-hardwood-grips-silver-medallion.html?___SID=U
They looked good, and were a good deal, so I bought them. Now the problem. The stock grip screws that came on the gun with the rubber grips are too short for the wood grips. What you have to do is purchase grip screws for the Sig P-239. They are longer, and will fit the wood silver medallion grips on a Sig P-226. This type of thing becomes a total pain in the ass. Here is a good diagram of all the different grip screws Sig employs on all their different models. Note all the different head thicknesses and lengths.
(http://i.imgur.com/iBJaYzf.jpg)
This is good to have for anyone who is planning to do any grip swapping on Sig handguns. You will run into the same thing I did. Just so you don't think I'm picking on Sig, I ran into the same crap on my Browning Buckmark Camper UFX. I changed out the black and grey rubber grips for a nice set of Browning Cocobolo grips. And those screws had too big of a head to work in the Browning wood grips, forcing me to buy additional grip screws that would properly fit the Browning Cocobolo grips. Remember, I'm talking about Sig grips on a Sig handgun, and Browning grips on a Browning handgun. Not any aftermarket grips. If these grips are manufactured by Hogue or someone else for Sig and Browning, they are made to their factory specifications. Or at least should be.
I cannot understand why the hell these manufacturers can't get their $h!t together, and make sure all of their grips are counterbored the same diameter. And to the same depth from the back of the grip. So one grip screw would work in all the grips they produce for that gun. We've had interchangeable parts on mass produced goods since the Industrial Revolution for God's sake.
I will say when I changed out the grips on my Beretta 92-FS from plastic to wood, (again the wood grips were of Beretta manufacture), the same screws did work. Although I had to ditch the star washers that came with the plastic grips. No big deal. At least I didn't have to purchase new screws. These are the P-239 grip screws I had to buy, so I could make my wood Sig grips work on my P-226 Sig handgun.
http://store.sigsauer.com/p239-grip-screws-5-blued.html
$24.00+ including shipping and tax for 5 screws. Add that to the $50.00 for the grips, (including shipping), and I'm up to $75.00 for this whole deal. Still not bad because Sig charges north of $110.00 for most all of their wood P-226 grips on their website. I just wish I didn't have to research all of this nonsense to make it happen correctly. You shouldn't have to. Sig Sauer should at least provide a page on their website that contains the information I've listed here.
Anyway, I thought I would point this out for anyone thinking about doing the same. Sig handguns are very popular.
(http://i.imgur.com/hCAdBbx.jpg)
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Bilt this is a good post. I'm sorry you're having problems but I like how you went to the detail...even though I don't have a Sig. I keep thinking one day I'll get one of those 226's just to say I have one.
I know you have tastes for a wide range of all things firearms. Aim Surplus just got a shipment of Erma-Werke 22 LR M-1 Carbine look alikes: http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=7923&name=German+ERMA-WERKE+.22LR+M1+Carbine+Rifle (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=7923&name=German+ERMA-WERKE+.22LR+M1+Carbine+Rifle) . I'd get some for the boys if I had an dime or two laying around.
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I forgot to mention that I swapped out the plastic grips, for CZ Cocobolo wood grips on my CZ-75 in matte Stainless, and it used the same screws without any issues.
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I forgot to mention that I swapped out the plastic grips, for CZ Cocobolo wood grips on my CZ-75 in matte Stainless, and it used the same screws without any issues.
OK. That's a picture I've got to see. I have a CZ-75 in the polished stainless...and couple more... I may need to make a change!
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OK. That's a picture I've got to see. I have a CZ-75 in the polished stainless...and couple more... I may need to make a change!
Here ya' go:
COCOBOLO
(http://i.imgur.com/gRVUSHH.jpg?1)
PLASTIC
(http://i.imgur.com/P1PtfOQ.jpg?1)
This is my Polished Stainless that came with Cocobolo from the factory. (I borrowed the "Whore House Red" pillow from the old lady):
(http://i.imgur.com/JAsqMgw.jpg?1)
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Nice.
I see Christmas present....yes I do!
Where'd you get'em from?
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Nice.
I see Christmas present....yes I do!
Where'd you get'em from?
Are you talking about the CZ Cocobolo grips?
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Yahzah...the CZ ones.
Now is that the polished stainless you added or is it chrome plated? Whilst fondling my polished stainless at the gun shop one day I told them to put it back because chrome eventually flaked and I had to pass. That's when I found out it was not chrome just polished stainless and it had to come home and join the pack with some of it's brothers and sisters....
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Yahzah...the CZ ones.
If I remember correctly I either got them from Midway, or else CDNN. Midway tends to have them in stock on a more regular basis. But CDNN is always cheaper..... If they have them.
Now is that the polished stainless you added or is it chrome plated? Whilst fondling my polished stainless at the gun shop one day I told them to put it back because chrome eventually flaked and I had to pass. That's when I found out it was not chrome just polished stainless and it had to come home and join the pack with some of it's brothers and sisters....
The polished Stainless CZ-75 IS factory polished Stainless Steel, not chrome or Nickel plated. I bought it that way. I don't care much for plated guns either, because it's just too easy to screw up the finish. Especially with several of the stronger solvents. Even Ballistol can screw up Nickel plating if too much is used.
Another good thing about polished Stainless over Nickel plating is you can polish out any fine scratches with a bit of Flitz Metal Polish. If a plated gun gets scratched, you pretty much have to live with it. The polished Stainless CZ-75 I purchased from Cabela's a few years back. It came with the Cocobolo grips from the factory.
The salesman told me CZ makes a special run of polished Stainless CZ-75's with Cocobolo grips for Cabela's once or twice a year, because they order enough of them to stock all of their stores, to make it worth their while. The majority of polished Stainless CZ-75's come with black plastic grips, like my matte Stainless gun did.
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Yahzah...the CZ ones.
Now is that the polished stainless you added or is it chrome plated? Whilst fondling my polished stainless at the gun shop one day I told them to put it back because chrome eventually flaked and I had to pass. That's when I found out it was not chrome just polished stainless and it had to come home and join the pack with some of it's brothers and sisters....
I had one of my pistols hard chrome plated and it never flaked or got scratched or anything. I believe it's 28 years old now. If chrome has any flaws they haven't shown up yet.
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I had one of my pistols hard chrome plated and it never flaked or got scratched or anything.
Hard Chrome is much different, and far more durable, than the high gloss Nickel plating that early pistols like the Colt Python, Single Action Army, and S&W Model 29's were treated with. Don't confuse matte finished Hard Chrome plating with the "Chrome Plating" found on car bumpers. (At least cars from the 60's). Now they're all rubberized plastic.
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Hard Chrome is much different, and far more durable, than the high gloss Nickel plating that early pistols like the Colt Python, Single Action Army, and S&W Model 29's were treated with. Don't confuse matte finished Hard Chrome plating with the "Chrome Plating" found on car bumpers. (At least cars from the 60's). Now they're all rubberized plastic.
The chrome on my slide is only matte where it's supposed to be and the sides are polished. It looks about the same as stainless steel. And thanks for the info on the Sig screws. I don't have one but that could help out a lot of other people.
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One other thing I would add, that is yet another PITA with ANY Sig grip screws that you order from Sig. Is the fact they ALL come with that stupid thread sealing compound already on the threads. This stuff is a royal PITA, because it makes it extremely difficult to start the screw into the threads. It also makes it very easy to cross thread the screw into the frame. Then you're royally screwed.
If they're so damn insistent on using this crap, I wish they would simply include a small squeeze packet of the stuff with the screws. Instead of putting it all over the threads, letting it harden, thereby making it all but impossible to properly install them. Sig frames are Aluminum, and it's easy enough to strip these small threads out without fighting this junk all over the screw. It also make it very difficult to feel when you have contacted the grip, so you can feel when to stop torqueing.
It's almost as if Sig sat down and tried to come up with the best way to make changing grips on any of their handguns as difficult as humanly possible. They've succeeded, believe me.
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Had a bad day, have we?
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Anyway, now that all of the nonsense is behind me, the gun looks 100 times better without those cheap plastic grips.
(http://i.imgur.com/uplLN1j.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/J6dfCSg.jpg?1)
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That is nice. It's a shame that it was such a problem to get right.
This has been a good post. Different screws, how they vary and will affect the job. Preapplied lock coating on the screws being a problem with the fine machine threads....
This was a good one to share Bill.
Is your day going better now that you're finished? 8)
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That is nice. It's a shame that it was such a problem to get right.
This has been a good post. Different screws, how they vary and will affect the job. Preapplied lock coating on the screws being a problem with the fine machine threads....
This was a good one to share Bill.
Is your day going better now that you're finished? 8)
Yes. All is well. It was an overall PITA, but in the end it turned out well. I'm happy with the gun. The wood grips are more hand filling as well. As far as the pre applied lock coating, what I did was this. I first oiled the threads in the frame of the gun, as well as the screws. Be sure to get some on the red coating. It will help soften it.
I then placed the grip into place, and dropped a screw into the hole. I have a good set of Brownell's gunsmithing screwdrivers. Be sure you have the correct screw to fit the slot. A little trick I do is use a small piece of paper towel between the bit and the screw slot. This prevents any marring of the bluing on the screw itself. Then slowly turn in the screw 1 or 2 turns. I then pause and back out the screw a half turn or so. Then go in another turn, then back out a half turn again. I keep doing this SLOWLY until I feel the screw make contact with the grip.
You can keep checking your progress by seeing if the grip is loose. I kept going no more than a half turn at a time until I made contact, and then STOPPED. This is necessary because you cannot feel when you have tightened the screw sufficiently. There is resistance all the way because of the locking agent. If you try to go straight in and, "gorilla it", you will strip the thread. By backing the screw in and out several times, you "work in" the locking agent into the threads slowly, and give it repeated chances to "flow" in and around the threads. The constant in and out of the screw will help soften the compound. This, along with the oil helps. (I just used light motor oil). But I'm sure any oil, or even light grease will work fine. The oil will also prevent any chance of galling the fine threads.
When you finally seat the screw on the grip, the locking agent will hold it tight enough. If you want to get around all of this, buy the Sig grip screws from Hogue instead of Sig. I don't think they apply that crap to the grip screws they sell. Midway sells Hogue grip screws for Sig handguns. I didn't discover this until I had already ordered them from Sig. Live and learn.
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I do wonder if this PITA is a measure to encourage factory installation of new grips?
It sure isn't aimed at paving the way for the DIY owner.
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Sig aftermarket grips can interfere with their springs. Be sure function isn't affected.
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Sig aftermarket grips can interfere with their springs. Be sure function isn't affected.
The slide release, magazine release, and safety work as intended.
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Sig aftermarket grips can interfere with their springs. Be sure function isn't affected.
Would that be just the magazine or does Sig use grip mounted springs in recoil reduction ?
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Would that be just the magazine or does Sig use grip mounted springs in recoil reduction ?
Once I had the factory plastic grips off my P-226, I shook it and nothing came loose. The one thing you do have to watch when you start using longer screws like I did, is to be sure they don't protrude into the magazine well far enough to cause the magazine to bind. Mine were nowhere near that long. They barely came flush with the inside of the mag well. Which is just about perfect, giving the most thread contact possible.
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The slide release, magazine release, and safety work as intended.
Good... I'd expect that with factory panels.
I've been looking at some Houge grips for my P6 since Sig abandoned the old design, it's my only option.
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Would that be just the magazine or does Sig use grip mounted springs in recoil reduction ?
Lots of moving pieces/parts behind the grip panels. If the recessed back side of the grip isn't to spec, the springs and parts can rub and be a problem.
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I've been looking at some Houge grips for my P6 since Sig abandoned the old design, it's my only option.
I don't think you'll have any clearance or operating issues with the Hogue grips. If I'm not mistaken, Hogue manufactures all of Sig's wood grips. Much the same way Mec-Gar manufactures all of the OEM magazines for Beretta, Sig, CZ, and many others.
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Wife just ordered a P938. I had to order pink Houge grips for her...remembered the screw thing.
Thanks.
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Somewhere in the dark recesses and cobwebs of my mind, I'll file this away. But in the forefront I'll probably just remember not to buy a Sig.
Okay, I will admit, I might get a 320 just to play with and keep up with the DOD.
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I have spent way too much time on the dark side (Glocks), the 320 is the only sig model that I would buy. I have shot both the 9mm and the .45 acp in the 320 and liked them. Be careful the trigger in the 320 will spoil you rotten. ;D