The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: ericire12 on May 15, 2009, 10:14:19 PM
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(http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/double-defense.png)
Available in 12 ga. or 20 ga. The Stoeger Double Defense has a fiber optic front bead and two pincatinny rails. The barrels on both the 20 gauge and 12 gauge models are 20″ long and have a fixed improved choke and can chamber 2.75 and 3″ shells.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/05/16/stoeger-double-defense-21st-centeruty-tactical-coach-gun/
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Barrels are to long and other than FO bead and light mount there is no need for all that other crap on it.
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Barrels are to long and other than FO bead and light mount there is no need for all that other crap on it.
What, you don't need an Aimpoint to shoot your shotgun? I thought everyone had optics mounted on there's. ;)
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That's one of the dumbest things I've seen in awhile.
Are they joking?
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Damn.
It might have helped out Dirty Steve in 'Young Guns'.
"Did you see the size of that chicken?"
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Barrels are to long and other than FO bead and light mount there is no need for all that other crap on it.
Indeed! Used to be an OK $200 dollar side by side with lousy wood and SKS quality wood to metal fitting. However, it did its job for a fair price. I wouldn't take it dove hunting if I had a choice, but for a "get the @E#$% out of my house" gun it was just fine. Then came tacticool, where folks discovered you could double the price if it came in black. Please! Who on God's earth wants a scope on a coach gun? If you answer yes you shouldn't be allowed to own one. 18' barrels, cheap, but solid wood, and it goes bang every time from a cylinder choke to handle buck and saboted slugs and what more do you want? Screw the A-team motif.
FQ13 who is apparently horriblly out of fashion
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I only have one question. Why?
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I only have one question. Why?
why not :P :P
still the bastards stole a bloke's Tacticool idea from over here
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j291/BKR33/P1010413.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j291/BKR33/P1010408.jpg)
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why not :P :P
still the bastards stole a bloke's Tacticool idea from over here
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j291/BKR33/P1010413.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j291/BKR33/P1010408.jpg)
Phil
I don't know whether to blame bad genetics from the fact y'all are decended from criminals or just being made crazy by the terrible gun laws you have to endure, but you do realize that that....thing... is just so far past absurd that you can't even see it in the rearview mirror right? Right? Tell your buddy (he's not related to that crockadile guy is he?) to sell the bipod and buy more beer, it'll probably help. On the other hand, I am LMAO, so its probably infected me already.
Cheers ;D
FQ13
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Well, look at it this way - Phil's buddy's coach gun probably shoots sub-moa - for one pellet. All the other pellets are somewhere within +/- 10,000 MOA
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Well, look at it this way - Phil's buddy's coach gun probably shoots sub-moa - for one pellet. All the other pellets are somewhere within +/- 10,000 MOA
Quality stuff we have here! Reminded me of a blueberry farm near a job site I was working on. At random times (5 mins or so) it would fire off birdshot shells into the air to scare the birds. (The bird can decrease the blue berry crop by up to 45% or so I'm told). I was a few hundred yards off, but if the wind was right I could catch a couple of bird shot. The good kind of catch as in my hand not in the rear end: a light peppering.
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Quality stuff we have here! Reminded me of a blueberry farm near a job site I was working on. At random times (5 mins or so) it would fire off birdshot shells into the air to scare the birds. (The bird can decrease the blue berry crop by up to 45% or so I'm told). I was a few hundred yards off, but if the wind was right I could catch a couple of bird shot. The good kind of catch as in my hand not in the rear end: a light peppering.
Yikes! As soft as blue berries are, if they firing shot skyward, I bet there were some awfully crunchy seeds in some those berries.
FQ13
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Yikes! As soft as blue berries are, if they firing shot skyward, I bet there were some awfully crunchy seeds in some those berries.
FQ13
I guess they figured crunchy blue berries were better that blue berries that had been run through a bird. :)
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I wonder why Stoeger went with non-exposed hammers? (I am an old timey coach gunner....)
Andy
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I wonder why Stoeger went with non-exposed hammers? (I am an old timey coach gunner....)
Andy
And a hell of a holster maker judging by your website and the comments of MB, who can never pronounce your last name right ;D
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Hey Tomb,
Oh Michael might embellish a little, I just slam two chunks 'o beefhide together and call it done....
;)
Andy Lang... er...langloys/langwa...uh....er...oh heck, now I forgot how to say it!
And a hell of a holster maker judging by your website and the comments of MB, who can never pronounce your last name right ;D
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I keep looking at coach guns. Is there any reason to go for one with screw in chokes?
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Haz,
Sure! Chokes are great! Be able to tailor the shotgun for your load/mission requirements.
Andy
I keep looking at coach guns. Is there any reason to go for one with screw in chokes?
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Haz,
Sure! Chokes are great! Be able to tailor the shotgun for your load/mission requirements.
Andy
Ya just had to say that din't ya? They run about $100 more and I just about had myself talked into one without. :(
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Haz,
Spend it now...or spend it testing ammo to find out what works (the chokes are cheaper than ammo these days!).
Of course you can do what I do (look up "cheap bastard" in the dictionary, my photo is there!), get the non-choke gun, find a load that is available locally (or in stock in your safe) and learn it WELL at every range you might shoot it. You might find that after XXX many yards the shot drops off, or that up close the shot column is too tight/loose etc....learn the gun. (and its FUN to shoot!).
Andy
Ya just had to say that din't ya? They run about $100 more and I just about had myself talked into one without. :(
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I disagree with choke tubes for a close range tactical shot gun. (For anything else I am all in favor). But for civilian SD we want a decent spread of buck at sub 20 yards. Cylinder is the way to go. It will also fire slugs. If you want tighter groups, counter intuitively, low recoil ammo patterns much tighter than regular buck at the same distance. Go to www.theboxotruth.com there are two articles on buck, one standard the other on low recoil, the results are surprising.
FQ13
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Why I do like choke tubes:
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1000976.jpg?t=1245710162)
The one in the gun (my 870 Express Super Magnum 12ga.) is a Cylinder choke "Tactical Breacher". Say "Bye, Bye" to that door lock / hinges!
The two in the middle are labled
The one on the bottom is a "Jelly Head" Super Full choke
One gun, and a baggy full of little tubes does it all!
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Why I do like choke tubes:
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1000976.jpg?t=1245710162)
The one in the gun (my 870 Magnum Express) is a Cylinder choke "Tactical Breacher". Say bye, bye to that door lock!
The two in the middle are labled
The one on the bottom is a "Jelly Head" Super Full choke
One gun, and a baggy full of little tubes does it all!
Does a cylinder tube shoot slugs ok? Thats my predjudice against them. I always beleived that you would lose accuracy from a cylinder choke vs a straight cylinder bore. If I'm wrong, I will be glad to hear it.
FQ13
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I'm sure there's a big differance with which slug you use, but last time my dad and I went shooting I had this gun with me (we used a sheet of cardboard proped up in an open field with a home made bench to shoot from). I got stupid lucky on my first shot & punched out the bulls eye at 78 yards (dont ask about the range, I didnt set it up). After that I said. "Guess mines all set!!" And refused to shoot anymore... Guess why... ;D
Saboted Remington 2 3/4" slug. I had the Improved Cylinder choke in.
I kept telling him. "Once the bulls eye was gone that target was no good to me anymore!" ;D ;D ;D
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Badger,
I was specifically talking about chokes on a coach gun.
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Several questions here.
1) I like screw in chokes and even the old poly choke, ( never seen one on a SXS ) for the versatility.
2) When We talk about accuracy with slugs, or shot, a shotgun is like a .22lr, you just don't know what its gonna like, maybe wally world 1 oz wnchester, maybe remington green label premium. Slugs are the same, try several and see what it likes, and more importantly, find out if its pretty close to point of aim. I have been surprised by slugs, out to 50 yards, all of my shotguns shoot them close enough for wet work, with a bead sight. A deers brisket or a bad guys sternum are just the right size for them.
3) I have a bunch of the reduced recoil TAP 12ga. but have not patterned them yet. I have heard and read good things.
4) FQ, I used to subscribe to the good spread theory, until I went to a LE shotgun class, where my perception got changed was head shots with buck shot, and more importantly, head shots with no shoots = hostage situation. Our instructor was a very good shot with pistol and shotgun, and opened my eyes. I would have never tried a head shot with a No shoot close by, until he demonstrated several types of ammo, 1st on a 18" x 24" gong, at 18 yards, which he explained was the maximum yardage a 9 pellet 00 buck, would keep all shots on the target from a cylinder bore shotgun. His favorite was WW 9 pellet 00, 2 3/4" and demonstrated it against remington and federal. funny thing is he did not bring a shotgun, he used the students, duty gear, and the ww did print 4-5" groups with no flyers, the others would cluster but have flyers several inches from the cluster, just 1 or 2 pellets, but enough. He then set the standard IPSC targets made of steel up and placed the head portions adjacent to each other, and proceeded to make head shots without hitting the no shoot, He would hold off and cut half the head off the shoot target. I said wow, and learned how to do it. When I run shotgun matches I run this drill but closer 10-12 yards, as we use birdshot, it is an eye opener for most people, they suck at 1st but then get the hang and have a new skill set. I do want to try some of the TAP 12 and see what happens in my cylinder bore gun, that is next to the bed.
Last: and I know you guys are ready, shotgun chokes are nowhere near an exact science, the stated choke is a percentage of reduction to the inside diameter based on the actual bore size behind it, this varies quite a bit not only from manufacturer to manufacturer, but the same model from 1 manufacturer,
any of you who have screw in choke guns, clean the barrel well and the look from the chamber end and with a good light source, and don't be surprised if the bore is not concentric to the choke, you very may well see a slight lip of the choke peeking out. Usually does not hurt anything. Production barrels are not turned or threaded on a lathe, forged, cast and then threaded with a tap. I think this is the difference with a high end gun, not SD guns, but sporting clays, skeet and trap, some gunsmith, factory or otherwise performs excellent quality control with the machining, and assembly, then takes the gun and patterns it, and tweeks it until you have the tightest predictable pattern at a given yardage for the specific purpose of the individual.
Now Hans Vang does this, for production barrels and I have shot some, nice work you can count on.
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I'm a little late on the thread but..........................TACTICAL COACH GUN my hiney.
It sounded too goofy to open the thread. Didn't think that they were actually serious. A coach gun is a coach gun and will never be tactical. It's two short barrels of up close OH S&^%$it.
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Remeber Mad Max's double barrel... If your really using it in "coach gun" fashion (nothing beyond stun gun range). I think Max's gun was perfect. I would maintain the only use for tubes in a coach gun might be something like the Rem "Tactical" tube. That way if you bury the barrels in a guys chest and pull the trigger, or the barrels get pressed up against anything else for that matter before being fired, no worry about something going POP in the gun because gases that couldnt escape.
I can vouch for the "Tactical" tube being sharp enough that if you jabbed it into a guys gut its going to keep moving until it hits a bone or comes out the other side... Bayonet style action. And one BIG OWWWEEEEE hole that isnt going to stop bleeding! Also useful if you were out of ammo, or had some kind of jam. Imagin the damage from two of these side by side rammed through a gut! Yesterdays lunch will be laying on the floor!
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Remember Mad Max's double barrel...
Very, very cool. Pistol grip, leg holster, super short and the perfect up close and personal "coach gun". Why Badgersmilk, a Mad Max reference.........from you. I wasn't sure if you had ever heard of the Mad Max movies. ;D
That's what a coach gun was all about....up close, serious damage.
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When I was a kid my cousin (back in a coal mining town in PA) had a 20 guage cit down and looked just like an old black powder pistol. I bet if ya mounted a BS lockset on it you could get away with it hanging on yer wall. ;)
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Almost like this. Wish I could figure out how to post the picture here.
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle1997/le970315-03.html
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Almost like this. Wish I could figure out how to post the picture here.
(http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo283/tsbevins/autoburg.gif)
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle1997/le970315-03.html
Here ya go Wolfe... ;)
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Yep that is tha idea. A single barrel looks more like a BP but, yeah that's it.
DISCLAIMER!
I would NEVER do this or advocate that some one should!
::)
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Thanks Timothy for getting the pic to work. Some day this ole computer quadriplegic will learn how to do that and wiggle a few toes.
One of these would be fun too.
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=33171
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I don't like the grip set up on the H&R.
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a "tactical" sxs........
ya know, it's kind of like the ugliest pup in a litter.......you start feeling sorry for it and start thinking its kinda "cute". :D
it was designed to sell.....tactical is the angle. And they will probably sell well just because they are something new, different, and untried as in a "tactical" approach to the sxs. if i ever run across one in a gun shop, i will sure fondle it.........and most likely put it right back in the rack.
For the next feller that comes along, a tactical sxs just might be the greatest thing since percussion caps over flint.
i have no problems with a sxs as a home defense gun. i do have a problem with any shotgun that evolves into a rambo special.
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(http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo283/tsbevins/autoburg.gif)
VERY NICE!
Bout 12" of barrel on there?? Better be PRETTY choosy which shells you put in that one! BIG thumbs down on grabbing a 3" turkey load!
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As far as choke tubes are concerned, I'll buy a gun without any and saw the barrels down from 20" to 18-1/4 or 18-1/2". Heck, I'd make it into a handgun if it was legal.
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As far as choke tubes are concerned, I'll buy a gun without any and saw the barrels down from 20" to 18-1/4 or 18-1/2". Heck, I'd make it into a handgun if it was legal.
Hell Jumbo, if it were legal, even my beloved Merkel might be a leeetle bit shorter. ;D
FQ13
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Hell Jumbo, if it were legal, even my beloved Merkel might be a leeetle bit shorter. ;D
FQ13
You have a beloved MERKEL?
Now I hate you. ;D
Porn please.
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You have a beloved MERKEL?
Now I hate you. ;D
Porn please.
Camera is on the fritz ( ;D), but its not much to look at. It's a Model 8, extractors not ejectors, 28" barrels in mod/improved 12 gauge with plain walnut and about 90% case colors in a semi pistol grip. Just a good blue collar sxs. For some reason the ducks don't like it though. ??? ;D
FQ13
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Camera is on the fritz ( ;D), but its not much to look at. It's a Model 8, extractors not ejectors, 28" barrels in mod/improved 12 gauge with plain walnut and about 90% case colors in a semi pistol grip. Just a good blue collar sxs. For some reason the ducks don't like it though. ??? ;D
FQ13
I wonder why? ;D
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Camera is on the fritz ( ;D), but its not much to look at. It's a Model 8, extractors not ejectors, 28" barrels in mod/improved 12 gauge with plain walnut and about 90% case colors in a semi pistol grip. Just a good blue collar sxs. For some reason the ducks don't like it though. ??? ;D
FQ13
Needs engraving, when they come down to see if they recognize any one in the hunting scene you blast them, ducks can't resist a nicely engraved hunting scene.
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Needs engraving, when they come down to see if they recognize any one in the hunting scene you blast them, ducks can't resist a nicely engraved hunting scene.
That's funny right there. ;D
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Back to the shotgun, I know a guy that would love this. Back a long time ago, when I was five or six, me and my dad were at Wally World when we saw one of his friends working security part time, small suburb city, every cop knows each other. He was just inside the front door with his service pistol and carrying a double barrel side by side broken over his shoulder. Back in the day no one minded, but I'd doubt you could work like that today. But any shoplifters were probably relieved of their criminal plans after seeing that fellow. ;D
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They have taken what USED to be an admirable and affordable self defense fire arm and turned it in to an overpriced, "Tacticool" Mall ninja joke.
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Come on Tom. Tell us how you REALLY feel. ;D
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Suuuuuuper Fudd gun....
Needs an NC star red dot :-\
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Suuuuuuper Fudd gun....
Needs an NC star red dot :-\
Better for hunting those wasckely wabbitts. ;D
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Needs engraving, when they come down to see if they recognize any one in the hunting scene you blast them, ducks can't resist a nicely engraved hunting scene.
Works like that on my Ithaca 37. :)
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Works like that on my Ithaca 37. :)
I was going to say the same thing. ;D
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Works like that on my Ithaca 37. :)
I was going to say the same thing. ;D
I'm telling you, if you have the right engraving you don't even need decoys.
Them ducks just can't resist. ;D ::)
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I'm telling you, if you have the right engraving you don't even need decoys.
Them ducks just can't resist. ;D ::)
Magnification and projection does help........
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I want one. ;D Love the cool factor on it. Not to mention ability to put a Red dot sight on it.
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I want one. ;D Love the cool factor on it. Not to mention ability to put a Red dot sight on it.
You're sooooo easy!
;D
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Yup! I'm a sucker for a coach gun........ ;D And almost anything else that will fire a bullet or shotshell........
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Yup! I'm a sucker for a coach gun........ ;D And almost anything else that will fire a bullet or shotshell........
Got to admire an HONEST man ;D
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Yup! I'm a sucker for a coach gun........ ;D And almost anything else that will fire a bullet or shotshell........
After seeing me walk out of a fly rod shop, more than a few dollars lighter, a friend said, "You're so easy, it's a good thing you aren't a girl". Truer words were never spoken and I doubt that you and I are alone here either when it comes to guns. ;D
FQ13
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After seeing me walk out of a fly rod shop, more than a few dollars lighter, a friend said, "You're so easy, it's a good thing you aren't a girl". Truer words were never spoken and I doubt that you and I are alone here either when it comes to guns. ;D
FQ13
Never seen you, FQ, but I surely bet you'd look funny with boobs. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Never seen you, FQ, but I surely bet you'd look funny with boobs. ;D ;D ;D ;D
At least he would have something to do all day. :o 8) ;D
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At least he would have something to do all day. :o 8) ;D
And, it'd be cheaper than ammo.........