The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: Badgersmilk on September 27, 2009, 04:40:16 PM
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(https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/product_images/003-8078.jpg)
Looks like several on-line vendors are offering this at 29.99 a box. Priced rediculously! But that IS a .310" diameter bullet Hornady is now offering in loaded ammo!!! Hopefully they start offering just the bullets by themselves! :)
Given the look of those steel cases, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out they pulled FMJ bullets from a $4 box of steel cased ammo, punched in V Max bullets, and multiplied the price to make a few hundred percent profit.
Backwoods home (I think Mosad Ayoob) suggested readers try this same thing for this caliber few months back. This is the first I've seen a bullet of this quailty offered in .310" though.
http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=553&Itemid=1
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Hornady offers(ed) 223/5.56 ammo in steel cases in their Practice line of ammo for gov agencies. The 7.62x39 is just a logical extension of that. Hornady has offered those bullets to reloaders for a while IIRC. Also Cabelas has intermittently offered 7.62x39 ammo in the recent past with red plastic tips in bulk amounts, I just don't remember them stating specifically that they were from Hornady, I just assumed they were because the polymer tips were red in their pictures.
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.223 is trendy enough that there isnt anything that's NOT available for it. Ballistic tip .310" bullets are something at least I havent seen before. You can load 7.62x39 with .308" bullets, and that's what Ruger spec'd their mini-30's for. It's just not ideal for every other 7.62x39 weapon in the world (bone head move on Ruger's part IMO).
The ballistic tips are near perfectly suited for semi-auto's IMO (no deformation of the bullet tip from the action). Winchester offers very nice brass cases, Remington has brass cases for this caliber as well. The Rem UMC ammo is a decent enough deal since it CAN be reloaded. The Winchester cases are superior in quality though.
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I saw a segment on one of the shooting shows when Hornady introduced the 7.62x39 ballistic tip and said they had contracted with a Russian (Wolf?) firm to load these for them due to current ammo supply situation they weren't able to produce them here.
It was my understanding that the bullets have been available for reloading.
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my favorite by39 ammo is even steeper- cor-bon's 123 gr barnes x
but in my opinion a much better projectile
https://www.dakotaammo.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=23_160&products_id=312&osCsid=049647cdc2035c4d9f5cecd7d25ae68e (https://www.dakotaammo.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=23_160&products_id=312&osCsid=049647cdc2035c4d9f5cecd7d25ae68e)
and they are available lose
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Apparently those are REALLY GOOD! Wish I had the $$ to try them. I "roll my own" with Speer 123gr. "Hot Core" SP's. The quality of the Speer's is a little disapointing, but I've also got some Hornady SP's that arent too bad looking.
At least in my guns, anytime I fire SP's I can fire one round, then manually eject the next round and see a dent in the Soft Point where the bolt pushed the shell into the feed ramp (polished ramps dont seem to help to much). :( That's why I only load ballistic tip for my AR10, and would LOVE to get about 500 of the ballistic tip Hornady bullets to load for 7.62X39.
Even some bolt guns do that.
In a pinch (it'd have to be a REALLY bad pinch for me), you can get away with loading .308" bullets at the cost of accuracy and velocity. Not the strong points of the 7.62x39 to begin with. :(
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I've got a e-mail into Hornady Customer Service about these bullets. Some have told me they are using their .308" bullets and labeling them to match closer to caliber spec's at .310" on 7.62X39 box's.::)
The proper spec. is actually .311811"... I checked my Speer bullets - .311", my Hornady SP's - .309-.310". Though the Hornady's "look" better, that doesnt appear to be the case!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/7.62x39mm_round.svg/400px-7.62x39mm_round.svg.png)
(copied from another site):
The rifle is a CZ527 carbine topped with a 3x9x40 redfield accutrac scope. The bore measures .300 land to land and .3105 in the grooves
The ammo was loaded with 150 gr Sierre soft points 10 rds of .308 and 10 rds of the same bullet sized .311. Cases were Remington CCI 400 , The powder was 23.5grs of Re-7 with a COL of 2.310
It was about 65 degrees today with a light varible breeze of 15 mph
Shot string 1
.308 bullets
1851
1826
1852
1827
1846
***************
Shot string 2
.311 bullets
1935
1904
1937
1912
1925
****************
Shot string 3
.311 bullets
1953
1888 !?
1915
1932
1925
***************
shot string 4
.308 bullets
1852
1855
1869
1844
1873
Why this is all a "big deal" to me... Tolerance stacking is NOT something I want to get into when hand loading!
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I assume you are talking fps in the above post. How is the accuracy?
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More or less the same with either. I was disapointed to see the CZ bolt gun only making 2" groups at 100 yards! At least I feel better about passing on the Remington version of that same gun now (exact same gun, just re-labeled).
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BM, your concerns are fairly irrelevant as the tolerance on bore diameter is considerably more than the +/- .0015 you are describing. When I was at T/C (maker of some of the most accurate barrels available, thats why S&W bought the company ) the tolerance on bore diameter was +/- .008 that means that a .308 barrel could measure between .300 -.316.
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Oh crap you can get 500 for 149.00 FMJ or HP and the price goes down every day. HPs are more accurate as in every bullet . I don't dribble into those who want accuracy out of a Kalashnikov rifle. Cmon, its a 200m in rifle. Are people really shooting 762x39 out of a bolt rifle ? OMG get a good 762x54 and get a grip.
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Yes the difference between a .308" bullet, and a .311" bore is small. The chronograph proves the differance matters. How much it matters depends on the individual, and their wants and needs.
Letter to Hornady Customer Service:
Me - "Great to see you've introduced the new 7.62x39 ammo with the V-Max
bullets! I'm wondering how soon, we may expect to see just the .310" V-Max bullet
available for reloaders?"
The reply - "Thank you for your inquiry. We are always working on New Products. We
will take your suggestion into consideration. Please watch our website
for announcement of New Products late December/January."
I'm only guessing they went with .310" to bridge the gap between the mini-thirty and all other 7.62 rifles.
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I really like Hornady's products as well as their ammunition, but that stuff should be brass cased and reloadable for that price, to say the least. I'm just not a big fan of steel cased ammunition. I realize the AK-47 is more or less designed for steel case, but I still prefer a reloadable brass case for all of my shooting. I guess I'm getting cheap in my old age, and just don't see the value in shooting ammo that can't be reloaded. I'm not the worst however. Some years back when my wife and I were shooting a lot of trap, we knew a trap shooter who would walk out in front of the trap house and pick up spent plastic wads. He took them home, washed them in the dishwasher, and RELOADED THEM! I told Melanie if I ever get that bad it will be time to shoot me instead of clay targets. ;D Bill T.