The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: 1776 Rebel on December 31, 2008, 07:29:59 AM
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I read a number of gun forums/blogs etc. I am intrigued by the use of, and how popular the phrases SHTF and TEOTWAWKI is. What does this mean to you (lay out the scenario) and what are the odds that this scenario will happen within 10 years say.
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SHTF = Poop hitting a rotating blade!
TEOTWAWKI = A bad song by R.E.M.!!!
;D ;D
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For me SHTF = something like a riot, mass shooting (mall, etc), being in a bank hold up, that kind of stuff. TEOTHAWKI = anything from Katrina like societal breakdown (temp) to actual end of the world stuff like nuke warfare.
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I've got a little different outlook than Haz, I agree with all his SHTF but throw Katrina and other local/regional disasters into that category as well. I guess the outlook difference for Katrina and such is both the size of the impact and the length of time impacted. I know the impact was more or less permanent for a number of people, but 30 miles away from New Oreleans things were pretty much back to normal when electricity returned (except for the social plaque that spread from New Orleans and increased crime in the areas of relocation).
For TEOTWAWKI my thought is that it would be some kind of transitional breakdown or change that leads to permanent changes (social and physical) that is a nationwide or global in impact. Like Haz's comment but also widespread civil unrest caused by, say, a currency failure that leads to the end of the current status quo and lasts until a happy equilibrium is reached. Not that the happy equilibrium is much better, but that some benevolent (more or less) structure or order is in place. TEOTWAWKI is a transitional time from one from one period of normalcy to another period of normalcy that may last for a long time but leads to some type of equilibrium....just my 2 cents.
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SHTF = Poop hitting a rotating blade!
TEOTWAWKI = A bad song by R.E.M.!!!
;D ;D
We just might be in the grips of both. FUBAR = Washington, D.C.
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We just might be in the grips of both. FUBAR = Washington, D.C.
My awareness level is up. Economic issues here and abroad, middle east actions, a presidential staff the crows about the rule of law but will likely dicate with indifference to the law since they basically appear to be liars and/or thugs.....yup...looking bad.
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I agree with the SHTF definitions, but I have to comment that TEOTWAWKI does not have to be catastrophic in nature.
For those of us over 40 the computer revolution led to the end of the world as we knew it, it has changed how we get our news, communicate, entertain ourselves, and even work. The industrial revolution had similar effects on society at large.
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I agree with the SHTF definitions, but I have to comment that TEOTWAWKI does not have to be catastrophic in nature.
For those of us over 40 the computer revolution led to the end of the world as we knew it, it has changed how we get our news, communicate, entertain ourselves, and even work. The industrial revolution had similar effects on society at large.
Got a point there Tom. Generally I focus on negative collapse and it can be argued computers have caused that...or are in the process of causing that by allowing good intentions to enslave us bit by bit.
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Got a point there Tom. Generally I focus on negative collapse and it can be argued computers have caused that...or are in the process of causing that by allowing good intentions to enslave us bit by bit.
THE CELL PHONE ! !
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THE CELL PHONE ! !
Actually, I ignore my cell phone just as much as my home phone....If I want to talk to someone, I'll call THEM..otherwise, leave me alone....
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THE CELL PHONE ! !
Actually, I ignore my cell phone just as much as my home phone....If I want to talk to someone, I'll call THEM..otherwise, leave me alone....
Amen my brothers, Amen.
How did we ever evolve without cell phones and texting?
;)
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Amen my brothers, Amen.
How did we ever evolve without cell phones and texting?
;)
Opposable thumbs!!! 8)
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Actually, I ignore my cell phone just as much as my home phone....If I want to talk to someone, I'll call THEM..otherwise, leave me alone....
You should have to have one of those Dingleberries Blackberries as a condition of employment. You are in an envious position...I shut-off call waiting...the wife turns it back on...I get rid of the answering machine and danged if the phone company doesn't include it for her and sends me a monthly fee.
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You should have to have one of those Dingleberries Blackberries as a condition of employment. You are in an envious position...I shut-off call waiting...the wife turns it back on...I get rid of the answering machine and danged if the phone company doesn't include it for for her and sends me a monthly fee.
I have a calibration device for the "Crackberries" the poor saps I work with carry, otherwise known as a framing hammer!
Oh, and I have one of those "wife" thingies myself, may be another use for the calibrator after all? ??? :D
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I have a calibration device for the "Crackberries" the poor saps I work with carry, otherwise known as a framing hammer!............
Guess I can do anything I want on my last day at work... ;)
I ain't touchin that wife thingie statement....I've got to sleep between the Dingleberrie Blackberrie annoyances.
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To veer back to the original question;
SHTF is any disaster that effects you in a bad way. Mall shooting, get fired, hurricane, personal injury, blizzard, whatever. It is something that forces YOU to fall back on your own resources. Can't get to the store, no electricity, no money for food or what have you.
TEOTWAWKI is just that The End Of The World A We Know It. Civilization no longer functions, you are forced to handle your problems by yourself or with the people in your immediate area. No more food out of season, no more access to cheap mass-produced products, no more petroleum products, nothing but what you have or can make.
Katrina and the rest are SHTF but not TEOTWAWKI, the people there might not have had access to the fruits of civilization but only temporarily. A major nuclear war, asteroid impact, total economic collapse, major pandemic and other things that prevent to wheels of civilization from turning are what you are talking about there.
Civilization is not cities and technology, it's millions of people you don't know getting up every morning and doing jobs you have never heard of. When people cannot do their jobs and thereby prevent you from doing yours, that is TEOTWAWKI.
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TEOTWAWKI is just that The End Of The World A We Know It. Civilization no longer functions, you are forced to handle your problems by yourself or with the people in your immediate area. No more food out of season, no more access to cheap mass-produced products, no more petroleum products, nothing but what you have or can make.
I think that one way or the other we are headed for the above, and I am doing some preparation for such , while hoping that I am wrong.
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SHTF: I'm gambling in Havana and get mixed up with a waitress who turns out to be a Russian operative.
TEOTWAWKI: We are there right now. The world as we know it ends moment by moment. Roll with it.
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SHTF: I'm gambling in Havana and get mixed up with a waitress who turns out to be a Russian operative.
TEOTWAWKI: We are there right now. The world as we know it ends moment by moment. Roll with it.
Not a bad outlook quoted above.
A good explanation on your part Warhawke.
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A global disaster is TEOTWAWKI. A Mad Mad - Road Warrior type of scenario would be TEOTWAWKI. Globar thermonuclear war a la WWIII. An asteroid impact that kills 90% or more of the population and plunges us into an ice age would qualify too. That one may even happen in my lifetime. We're in a cosmc shooting gallery and know where less than 1% of the bullets are aimed.
The SHTF quite a lot more often than that type of event and isn't as bad. The S has HTF several times for me on a personal level.
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To veer back to the original question;
SHTF is any disaster that effects you in a bad way. Mall shooting, get fired, hurricane, personal injury, blizzard, whatever. It is something that forces YOU to fall back on your own resources. Can't get to the store, no electricity, no money for food or what have you.
TEOTWAWKI is just that The End Of The World A We Know It. Civilization no longer functions, you are forced to handle your problems by yourself or with the people in your immediate area. No more food out of season, no more access to cheap mass-produced products, no more petroleum products, nothing but what you have or can make.
Katrina and the rest are SHTF but not TEOTWAWKI, the people there might not have had access to the fruits of civilization but only temporarily. A major nuclear war, asteroid impact, total economic collapse, major pandemic and other things that prevent to wheels of civilization from turning are what you are talking about there.
Civilization is not cities and technology, it's millions of people you don't know getting up every morning and doing jobs you have never heard of. When people cannot do their jobs and thereby prevent you from doing yours, that is TEOTWAWKI.
I guess that's as good an explanation as any, Warhawke, I think you got it.
I've always looked at SHTF as 'short-term' to 'semi short-term' problem that affects an individual or small group.
An EOTWAWKI situation affects the many either on a country-wide scale or on a global scale.