The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Marshal Halloway on December 30, 2007, 09:07:11 PM
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Dammit... I hope he has chance.. I really really do... Guess we will see..
I want to know why Iowa and New Hampshire is any more important than any other state's votes.
Pisses me straight off! >:(
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I live in a May primary state so will have no say in choosing the nominee. Altho I would vote for Fred if I lived in an early voting state it would be more a matter of default than enthusiasm. It's no secret I became disillsioned with Fred some time ago. His inept campaign allowed the Huckster to surge and take votes that should have been his. And I have doubts about how effective a prez he would be.
Since Fred is not in the running in NH or MI he has to come in 2nd or 1st in Ia to have a chance and even then its a long shot.
The press is reporting his campaign is broke. There has beern no Fred surge in the Ia polls. Polls indicate he is locked in a battle with McCain for 3rd. Unless there is a Fred surge in the next four days I'm afraid this vid will be Fred'd last hurrah.
ETA: See the "Fred preparing an exit or just joking thread". Both Thompson's and Galen's answers about continuing could be intrepreted as a signal to supporters that Fred will be withdrawing after the Ia caucus.
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May God bless Fred Thompson.
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I live in a May primary state so will have no say in choosing the nominee. Altho I would vote for Fred if I lived in an early voting state it would be more a matter of default than enthusiasm. It's no secret I became disillsioned with Fred some time ago. His inept campaign allowed the Huckster to surge and take votes that should have been his. And I have doubts about how effective a prez he would be.
Since Fred is not in the running in NH or MI he has to come in 2nd or 1st in Ia to have a chance and even then its a long shot.
The press is reporting his campaign is broke. There has beern no Fred surge in the Ia polls. Polls indicate he is locked in a battle with McCain for 3rd. Unless there is a Fred surge in the next four days I'm afraid this vid will be Fred'd last hurrah.
ETA: See the "Fred preparing an exit or just joking thread". Both Thompson's and Galen's answers about continuing could be intrepreted as a signal to supporters that Fred will be withdrawing after the Ia caucus.
This is why all primaries should be held the same day, 3 months before the general election. And both should be on total number of votes, a true democracy! It won't ever happen, but would make us a stronger nation.
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So, Cookie62, you don't believe in supporting the Constitution.
That's a bad position to be taking given the issue of the 2A meaning being up to Supreme Court right now.
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I do support the constitution! I am just stating the fact that to be a true democracy, the vote should be one person one vote. I have taken an oath on several occasions to uphold and defend it. But that doesn't mean it cannot be improved upon.
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I do support the constitution! I am just stating the fact that to be a true democracy, the vote should be one person one vote. I have taken an oath on several occasions to uphold and defend it. But that doesn't mean it cannot be improved upon.
The US is not a democracy. Never was, never intended to be one. We are a Representative Republic.
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The US is not a democracy. Never was, never intended to be one. We are a Representative Republic.
I know, I'm just saying With the current system money and corruption has caused the system to break down. I'm not saying I have all the answers, or any for that matter. Hell, I live in the most corrupt state there is (Illinois). We need more "regular" people in office. Not just the rich that can afford to win or buy an election. And no i don't think all politicians are corrupt, I have personally known those that were in it for the people, and those in it for themselves. It would also help if the people would use the power given to them and vote. I personly think the election proccess has been skewed by low voter turn out, polls reporting this or that canidate has won, after only 10 percent of the votes are counted. Alot of people just don't feel that their vote counts any more.
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This just in, Huckabee, Romney, Thompson and McCain, in that order. McCain just slightly behind Thompson by a point or so.
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The low voter turnout has always been our strength, that way, nobody can ever predict the will of the American people, what is called the Silent Majority, if you can get us wound up, nobody can predict what can happen. I do believe in the past, like 1994, We can and do make a difference, it just takes something to get people out of their chair and into a voting booth. Of course they should have sent in their voters registration first...
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Cookie62.
You are entitled to your opinion, of course. But I would urge you to read up on why we have a representative form of Republic. And to try to understand why the Constitution has an electoral college. It is important. Otherwise the left coast and the left Atlantic coast, the big states, would tell everyone else how to live. I don't think you want that. BTW Bill Clinton never got the majority of the popular vote -- just the plurality.
One of the arguments for the Constitution was that it would protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. I think that is a good thing.
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I may be totally showing my natural blond hair here... but...
in my opinion.. ( and I repeat.."my opinion"... I think the fair way and a TRUE democracy would be to
put all the names of those running for President on a ballot.. and everyone gets one vote and that one vote counts.
the one with the most votes wins. Doesn't matter if you are from BFE or new Hampshire. Your vote will be counted just like everyone else's..
Now... Is that just too simple or what! ???
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I may be totally showing my natural blond hair here... but...
in my opinion.. ( and I repeat.."my opinion"... I think the fair way and a TRUE democracy would be to
put all the names of those running for President on a ballot.. and everyone gets one vote and that one vote counts.
the one with the most votes wins. Doesn't matter if you are from BFE or new Hampshire. Your vote will be counted just like everyone else's..
Now... Is that just too simple or what! ???
I agree with Marshall'ette- we all vote the same day- except for the fact that MOST voters who show up want to wait until you boil it down for them to a choice of chocolate or vanilla (maybe throw in a distant strawberry). Especially true for folks who don't have a core issue like the Second.
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These are all interesting except for one thing, America is not and ,since the adoption of the Constitution, was never intened to be a Democracy. It's a "Constitutional Republic". Like Jefferson said, Democracies never survive because as soon as the "mob" realizes they can vote themselves " Bread and circuses" they do. Thats why the demoncrats pander to the " minorities" and push thier social give aways, and suck up to illegal immigrants, They are buying the mobs vote with handouts and BS
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These are all interesting except for one thing, America is not and ,since the adoption of the Constitution, was never intened to be a Democracy. It's a "Constitutional Republic". Like Jefferson said, Democracies never survive because as soon as the "mob" realizes they can vote themselves " Bread and circuses" they do. Thats why the demoncrats pander to the " minorities" and push thier social give aways, and suck up to illegal immigrants, They are buying the mobs vote with handouts and BS
I made the same point in an earlier post. Seems that that point is either not understood or being ignored.
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Marshal'ette and Jaybethel,
Love you both. :) And you are for sure entitled to your opinions. BUT:
You really need to think about what you are proposing. That means a whole new Constitution changing from a representative democracy to a pure democracy. I don't think we want to open that Pandora's box. It means the 2A could be on the line and erased!!!! You DO NOT want that!!! It could mean that the individual has no rights! Only the will of the majority! Think about that. We have done just fine up to now with the current Constitution.
Do not forget the law of unintended consequences when you propose such a fundamental change to the Constitution.
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There is another problem with "mob rule" as well.
The reason they scrapped the Articles of confederation in favor of the Constitution was that Judges were letting creditors slide . writing off tax debts or allowing people to pay taxes and debts in trade or goods. Sounds like a good idea when cash is hard to come by. States would also print thier own money so Joe Farmer could get some cash.
Inflation, Also no one in the banking world would take the 50/50 chance of not be paid back. If we had not had European investment in the early days the Industrial Revolution could not have occurred here. Thats why places like Paraguay , Haiti, and the African countries are so messed up they have not been able to atract investment.
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Do not forget the law of unintended consequences when you propose such a fundamental change to the Constitution.
I'm not sure what "fundamental change to the Constitution" you are talking about because I'm not aware of our having proposed such. The gun grabbers are looking to change (or reinvent) the Constitution, but we're talking about a NJ or a VT vote having just as much meaning as an Iowa or NH vote. How is it a good thing that two states and the media get to cull out half the field of candidates before the rest of us get to voice our opinions? Then the other 96% of the country gets to vote after a couple of states and Wolf Blitzer have defined our choices? That's how they have killed the candidacies of many a good prospect. THAT, my friend, is the machine running at full rpm.
Last time I checked, Iowans nor New Hampshire folk, NOR (especially) the media won any prizes for being incredibly smarter and politcally astute than the rest of us. (Nothin' personal folks)
Different groups in our society had to fight long and hard for the right to vote and it's the check and balance of different groups that makes things work (some of the time). So if you don't want "Mob rule" then who's vote gets thrown aside? Women's vote? New Jersey's? Hawaii's (they're so far away anyway)? Or how about YOUR vote? What if it's the Second Amendment crowd's vote that gets tossed out so that "Mob rule" doesn't occur? And even more important- who gets to decide who's vote doesn't count?
Let us all vote at the same time and count them. Then maybe we'll do a little better than Nixon or Kerry or Bush or Clinton(s).
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Jaybethel,
If your complaint is about how the primaries are run. That is a different issue. That can be sorted out without a new constitution. But if your proposal is to change the Constitution to institute a pure democracy. We part company. I stand with the original framers on that.
I too have sworn to defend and uphold the Constitution as a Regular Army Officer.
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Like Thomas Jefferson said," The majority? Sir, The majority is an ass."
Jay , Don't knock NH to hard, They may seem like dips today but we have the easiest gun laws in the lowwer 48.
Vt. elected Howard Dean and look at the gun laws in NJ.
As for who's vote get tossed aside , Welfare Recipients, mental defectives and others in the "non productive " class that the democrats cater to. During the depression if you were "on the town" (welfare) you lost your right to vote until you were back on your feet. I would also point out that Oliver Wendall Holmes agreed with Hitlers euthanasia program.
As origanaly written the constitution did not allow for votes by non property owners. The purpose of the Electoral Colledge is to lessen the effect of the "unwashed masses" who if given the chance would vote for bread and circuses.
It's not politicly correct , it's not pretty , but if challenged on the facts I'm pretty sure I could still find at least some of the books I got this stuff from. one to read is "Unruly Americans " I forget the authors name but its fairly new, its where I got most of the info for my last post