The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: alfsauve on January 19, 2011, 05:08:06 PM
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The latest from the Brady Center with emphasis in bold being mine.
Who knew? Who knew that "clips" are people killers.
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
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CALL YOUR U.S. REPRESENTATIVE TODAY
Ban Large Capacity Ammunition Clips
Dear sheepal
Columbine: 13 killed, 23 wounded. Virginia Tech: 32 killed, 17 wounded. Fort Hood: 13 killed, 34 wounded. And now Tucson: 6 people killed and another 13 wounded, including Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, in a matter of seconds.
What do these tragedies have in common? The shooters used large capacity ammunition magazines to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time.
It's time to ban these people-killing ammunition magazines once and for all.
Strong legislation, H.R. 308, has been introduced by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) to ban large capacity ammunition magazines, like the one used by the Tucson shooter.
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Damn, here I thought it was guns I had to watch out for. Now apparently the guns are blameless, its just the "people killing magazines". A step in the right direction? :-\
FQ13
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I'd like to ban all vehicles with more than 100 horsepower.
Vehicles with more power than that are dangerous, and especially those damned SUV's, they are indiscriminate in they're blatant disregard for human life.
How dare folks want high powered vehicles for their daily commutes. THIS MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!
The Horror....
Kinda sounds stooooopid don't it?
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I'd like to ban all vehicles with more than 100 horsepower.
Vehicles with more power than that are dangerous, and especially those damned SUV's, they are indiscriminate in they're blatant disregard for human life.
How dare folks want high powered vehicles for their daily commutes. THIS MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!
The Horror....
Kinda sounds stooooopid don't it?
Not to the Greens. I had a sticker stuck on my truck window making basially that point, as well as how I was killing the planet. Likewise, EArTH FIRST has burned a few SUvs at the dealership. Damn those machines! Can't trust them.
One of my favorite lessons was telling a student who was talking about the evils of SUVs about how I'd pulled a guy in a Prius out of a snow bank in a parking lot the day before. "How many MPGs was Earth Boy getting? None, because his ass was stuck". ;D
FQ13
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I knew 2 guys who got killed in a 90 HP vehicle.
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:o I hate to get all serious on you guys but lets look at these incidents for a bit:
Virginia Tech: 49 casualties, 32 killed, 17 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", authorities wait outside until the evil doer is done
Fort Hood: 47 casualties,13 killed, 34 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", "when seconds counted authorities were minutes away"
Columbine: 39 casualties, 13 killed, 23 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", authorities waited outside until the evil doers were
done.
Tucson: 19 casualties, 6 people killed, 13 wounded. Constitutional Carry Zone Armed and unarmed citizens stop the evil
doer in a matter of seconds and prevent even more casualties.
At this point A.C.P. 45 trumps H.R. 308, as introduced by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) to ban large capacity ammunition magazines, like the one used by the Tucson shooter.
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my understand is no one drew on him, he was rushed.
there is also a diffrence between shooting from the middle of a crowd and shooting around the out side.
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I read somewhere that a couple of the people who jumped him were carrying and declined to draw on him, instead tackling him. Doesn't THAT count for something? Why doesn't THAT get out in the media? (Assuming it's true)
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I read somewhere that a couple of the people who jumped him were carrying and declined to draw on him, instead tackling him. Doesn't THAT count for something? Why doesn't THAT get out in the media? (Assuming it's true)
From all indications it is true.
There was a video on here, in another thread, with an interview of a local CCW (Joe Zamudio) who helped subdue the shooter.
Basically the guy said he couldn't tell who the "bad guy" was in the fracas, so he chose not to draw his weapon at the time. When he sets the record straight in the interview, suddenly they are "out of time".....
**Aha....found it:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=15199.0
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My $.02 Having a ccw means nothing.
Having one does not make you a shooter, great at SD, tactically mind ful etc etc
Infact I'd say most of the people that I've met over the years(remember I traveld all over the us working in construction) that had a ccw are NOT prepared. Many have had no idea what would happen if they need to use the gun or even when it is or is not a good idea to draw it.
There are those that flat out would not use it,( but still have it ::) ) to those that are "gung hoe" ( you know stop a bank robbery when no shots have been fired)
So in my mind all that some one saying they have a ccw means is they filled out some paper work and paid a fee.
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My $.02 Having a ccw means nothing.
Having one does not make you a shooter, great at SD, tactically mind ful etc etc
Infact I'd say most of the people that I've met over the years(remember I traveld all over the us working in construction) that had a ccw are NOT prepared. Many have had no idea what would happen if they need to use the gun or even when it is or is not a good idea to draw it.
There are those that flat out would not use it,( but still have it ::) ) to those that are "gung hoe" ( you know stop a bank robbery when no shots have been fired)
So in my mind all that some one saying they have a ccw means is they filled out some paper work and paid a fee.
Tab, I have to disaggree to a point. Someone who has a CCW (or in States with Constitutional carry) are more apt to act if for no other reason they have made the decision they aren't going to be sheep. While I'm sure those who jumped this guy had worked through at least one or more scenerios in their mind they are already ahead of the reaction curve, but that's my plug nickle
ps never said I could spell
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Thats exactly my point. they are more likly to act.
Often the best thing to do is NOT act.
lets just play the what if game.
you stop in the local 711, you go to the back to pick up what ever. while your in the back, 2 guys walk in and point a gun at the clerk and say "give me all the money" They have not seen you.
what do you do?
well, I've heard mor then a few ccw say they would draw and shoot them. Is that the correct thing to do? is that even the legal thing to do in your state? I think you understand where I'm going with this. its not the hardware its the software.
Carrying a gun is a huge responsibility, yet IME, most people that have a CCW have no idea what that responsibility is.
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We have had this debate before about intervening in a bank robbery. If they shoot the clerk, or another customer they're going down, otherwise, that's what the camera's and insurance are for.
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Actually, that is why I do favor a class (recquired or not). If its like Texas', it will stress two things. How to deescalate, and what the law is. Owning a gun doesn't mean you know the law. Yes, you should be allowed to carry without a class, but you're an idiot if you do so without knowing whats ok and not ok. I don't subscribe to all the views you've laid out here TAB, but on this I do. Knowing the law, and knowing when and how to walk away are just a important as gun handling skills.
FQ13
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Carrying a gun is a huge responsibility, yet IME, most people that have a CCW have no idea what that responsibility is.
Sadly, the same can be said about just about every aspect of everyday life - from having kids to driving a car. So, without any data, let me guess that more people (proportionately) are killed by bad driving habits (theirs and others) than by CCWers that respond inappropriately to a situation.
On my home planet there are stringent training requirements before someone can CCW. Damn near anyone can own guns and use them to hunt, shot at the range, plink out in the country, etc. But if you are going out in the general public with it and possibly put other peoples lives at risk, you need to have training and to have shown some level of proficiency with it. The same is true of driving or having kids. I wish I could spend more time there rather than on this planet.
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We have had this debate before about intervening in a bank robbery. If they shoot the clerk, or another customer they're going down, otherwise, that's what the camera's and insurance are for.
yep, but you would be amazed at how many people don't know that or think having a gun on makes them have "super powers"
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yep, but you would be amazed at how many people don't know that or think having a gun on makes them have "super powers"
I have to disagree. Maybe a few pinheads that really shouldn't be carrying. (We all know at least one) But I think that the responsibility, and the potential liability makes people with a CCW hyper aware of their actions. I think that is why NO SHOTS were fired by any of the SEVERAL CCW holders at the Tucson shooting. They all knew the potential consequences of a stray round and chose to act without drawing their weapon. The point being that they acted. Unlike the hundreds of other sheep that were there.
Maybe you're right Tab, these people did exhibit "super powers" but they didn't need a gun to do it.
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My exp is for every 1 ccw holder that "gets it" and gets training/practice there are atleast 25 that don't.
I'd bet if we really looked into it that number would be closer to 1 in a hundred.
Most of the so called heros, that have done simlar things( not always stoping a man with a gun) will tell you that if they had to think about it, they would not have done it.
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My exp is for every 1 ccw holder that "gets it" and gets training/practice there are atleast 25 that don't.
I'd bet if we really looked into it that number would be closer to 1 in a hundred.
Most of the so called heros, that have done simlar things( not always stoping a man with a gun) will tell you that if they had to think about it, they would not have done it.
I would venture a guess that your experience has more to do with where you live than the real truth to the numbers.
Then again I live in a place where guns are a way of life. We can drive for 200 miles and see NOTHING. No town, no gas station, no HELP. And don't count on your cell phone either. Once you get away from the cities you might get service, you might not. People here get it, because they have to. Which may have something to do with the fact that our state is still running surpluses in the budget. ::)
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I've spent more of my adult life traveling the US working then I have here.
most of the "gung hoe" types were in the DFW area btw. also the place with the most courpt building inspectors too.( trust me , thats really saying something) atleast in reguards to what we were doing. which was industrial coatings. after the 5 monts I spent in the SFW area, it left a real bad tase in my mouth from texas. Lets just say, the second we were out of texas, the owner and myself made a bunch of calls to several diffrent federal agencys. intrestingly enough a short while after there were several high profile arests made. You might have read about them... illegal dumping, cutting corners blah blah blah...
Houston was a little better, but not much.
over all, the nicest people were in the south( true south, not the boarder areas) the rudest was the upper eastern coast. the most racist was the midwest. Test best "american dinner" food was the northwest.
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My exp is for every 1 ccw holder that "gets it" and gets training/practice there are atleast 25 that don't.
I'd bet if we really looked into it that number would be closer to 1 in a hundred.
Most of the so called heros, that have done simlar things( not always stoping a man with a gun) will tell you that if they had to think about it, they would not have done it.
Can you cite a source for your ratio, or is this just another in a long line of tidbits that the all-knowing, all-powerful TAB pulled out of his ass?
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Can you cite a source for your ratio, or is this just another in a long line of tidbits that the all-knowing, all-powerful TAB pulled out of his ass?
I take it reading comprehension is not taught in iowa...
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Can you cite a source for your ratio, or is this just another in a long line of tidbits that the all-knowing, all-powerful TAB pulled out of his ass?
Racist!!!! ;D
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the rudest was the upper eastern coast.
Hey...I resemble that remark. I got yer f*****g "rude" RIGHT HERE!
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the rudest was the upper eastern coast.
North of Mass. and East of Vermont there is a good reason for that.
We have dealt with so many a**holes from Mass South and NY West.
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:o I hate to get all serious on you guys but lets look at these incidents for a bit:
Virginia Tech: 49 casualties, 32 killed, 17 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", authorities wait outside until the evil doer is done
Fort Hood: 47 casualties,13 killed, 34 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", "when seconds counted authorities were minutes away"
Columbine: 39 casualties, 13 killed, 23 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", authorities waited outside until the evil doers were
done.
Tucson: 19 casualties, 6 people killed, 13 wounded. Constitutional Carry Zone Armed and unarmed citizens stop the evil
doer in a matter of seconds and prevent even more casualties.
At this point A.C.P. 45 trumps H.R. 308, as introduced by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) to ban large capacity ammunition magazines, like the one used by the Tucson shooter.
??? Norway; 146 casualties, 76 killed, 70 wounded "Gun Free Zone", authorities waited until they had permission to get their firearms to confront the evil doer
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I take it reading comprehension is not taught in iowa...
I know that I'm only about six months late to this party, but TAB I need an answer:
You made a comment about people that carry and their training. Tom asked if you had facts, and this is how your reply. I went back an reread everything, and all I find is people, including you, saying things like "in my experience" and the like. Do you have facts or did you just pull these numbers out of your ass? (sound familure)
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It's TAB, you know what he's like.
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I take it reading comprehension is not taught in iowa...
Not enough time to teach reading comprehension. Here they're too busy teaching capitalization, spelling and sentence structure.
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Not enough time to teach reading comprehension. Here they're too busy teaching capitalization, spelling and sentence structure.
Besides, the reading teachers are busy installing Astroturf to stop the cheerleaders from grazing ;D
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Besides, the reading teachers are busy installing Astroturf to stop the cheerleaders from grazing ;D
Is that because the "No Grazing Allowed" signs were ineffective?
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I know that I'm only about six months late to this party, but TAB I need an answer:
You made a comment about people that carry and their training. Tom asked if you had facts, and this is how your reply. I went back an reread everything, and all I find is people, including you, saying things like "in my experience" and the like. Do you have facts or did you just pull these numbers out of your ass? (sound familiar)
TAB is a kid....his experience pales in comparison to those of us who've lived with a firearm at their side for more than the time he's been alive. I've seen some stupid people but, in my lifetime, 18 years of it living in the "bigoted" mid-west, most folks that carry daily are more than prepared and responsible.
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:o I hate to get all serious on you guys but lets look at these incidents for a bit:
Virginia Tech: 49 casualties, 32 killed, 17 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", authorities wait outside until the evil doer is done
Fort Hood: 47 casualties,13 killed, 34 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", "when seconds counted authorities were minutes away"
Columbine: 39 casualties, 13 killed, 23 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", authorities waited outside until the evil doers were
done.
Tucson: 19 casualties, 6 people killed, 13 wounded. Constitutional Carry Zone Armed and unarmed citizens stop the evil
doer in a matter of seconds and prevent even more casualties.
At this point A.C.P. 45 trumps H.R. 308, as introduced by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) to ban large capacity ammunition magazines, like the one used by the Tucson shooter.
I am very sad to post on this thread again. :'(
Aurora: Approximately 50 70 casualties, 12 people killed,38 58 wounded. Posted Gun Free Zone.
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I am very sad to post on this thread again. :'(
Aurora: Approximately 50 70 casualties, 12 people killed,38 58 wounded. Posted Gun Free Zone.
:-[ Folks, this is getting really, really old!
Oak Creak: 9 casualties, 6 killed ( I don't count murderers), 3 injured, No Guns (I don't know if the temple was posted, I don't know if anyone was wearing the Kirpan ritual dagger either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan))
(http://)
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:-[ Folks, this is getting really, really old!
Oak Creak: 9 casualties, 6 killed ( I don't count murderers), 3 injured, No Guns (I don't know if the temple was posted, I don't know if anyone was wearing the Kirpan ritual dagger either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan))
(http://)
Almost guaranteed the men were, but I'm not sure how effective a weapon it is since it's purpose is mostly symbolic in the minds of modern Americans.
We should talk to the Sikhs about that.
From the link
The kirpan has both a physical function, as a defensive weapon, as well as a symbolic function. Physically it is an instrument of "ahimsa" or non-violence. The principle of ahimsa is to actively prevent violence; the kirpan is a tool to be used to prevent violence from being done to a defenseless person when all other means to do so have failed. Symbolically, the kirpan represents the power of truth to cut through untruth. It is the cutting edge of the enlightened mind.
I would bet that in modern society many don't think of that.
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Symbolically, the kirpan represents the power of truth to cut through untruth. It is the cutting edge of the enlightened mind.[/i]
I like that. Thanks
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Well unfortunately I am back again but things were not quite as bad this time.
The headline from Fox News is "Hero instructor fought son in Wyoming college bow-and-arrow murder-suicide, police say"
This time reportedly it was a "high powered" cross bow and other edged weapon. Thank the Brady Project and Michael Bloomberg no guns were allowed.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/02/man-killed-father-in-wyoming-college-bow-and-arrow-murder-suicide-attack/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/02/man-killed-father-in-wyoming-college-bow-and-arrow-murder-suicide-attack/)
I hate to get all serious on you guys but lets look at these incidents for a bit:
Virginia Tech: 49 casualties, 32 killed, 17 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", authorities wait outside until the evil doer is done
Fort Hood: 47 casualties,13 killed, 34 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", "when seconds counted authorities were minutes away"
Columbine: 39 casualties, 13 killed, 23 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", authorities waited outside until the evil doers were
done.
Tucson: 19 casualties, 6 people killed, 13 wounded. Constitutional Carry Zone Armed and unarmed citizens stop the evil
doer in a matter of seconds and prevent even more casualties.
At this point A.C.P. 45 trumps H.R. 308, as introduced by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) to ban large capacity ammunition magazines, like the one used by the Tucson shooter.
Norway; 146 casualties, 76 killed, 70 wounded "Gun Free Zone", authorities waited until they had permission to get their firearms to confront the evil doe
Casper, Wyoming College: 3 dead including the perpetrator from wait for it "edged weapons" Further carnage prevented by the
college professor who was also killed in the attack.
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I read the report about the professor who fought his son, giving others a chance to flee.
The professor was shot in the head with the crossbow, then wrestled the kid and was finally killed after being stabbed several time, allowing the students to flee.
What disturbs me is that folks fled and left the professor to die trying to save their lives..no one helped..
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I read the report about the professor who fought his son, giving others a chance to flee.
The professor was shot in the head with the crossbow, then wrestled the kid and was finally killed after being stabbed several time, allowing the students to flee.
What disturbs me is that folks fled and left the professor to die trying to save their lives..no one helped..
That is the 'nation of sheep' this country has become. :( >:(
**EDIT**
For clarity on the statement, I was leaning toward the apathetic mentality of the herd.
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Peg: There have always been more sheep than sheep dogs.
Let us remember Dr. Liviu Librescu. Why does a 76 year old professor still go teach everyday?
Why does a 15 year old Lithuanian boy survive the Nazi death camps?
Why does an unarmed man fight an armed gunman at the door?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu)
"There is some good in this world and it's worth fighting for" :'(
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Yes, but there are fewer and fewer sheep dogs (in an ever-increasing society) than there were 100 years ago..... or even 50 years ago..... sadly, so many of them are being assimilated as sheep themselves.
I'm not saying for the ones that are left not to fight.....just that they are becoming fewer and farther between.
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Peg: There have always been more sheep than sheep dogs.
Let us remember Dr. Liviu Librescu. Why does a 76 year old professor still go teach everyday?
Why does a 15 year old Lithuanian boy survive the Nazi death camps?
Why does an unarmed man fight an armed gunman at the door?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu)
"There is some good in this world and it's worth fighting for" :'(
Because some bureaucrats didn't trust him to carry a gun.
How can they sleep at night or look in the mirror.
He was unarmed, shot 5 times and still struggled to stop the killer and save all his students before he died....
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:-X
I give up guys but my 21 year old dog carries his SR9c in a Crossbread
every where he can, which ain't much since he is a college student
and my 18 year old dog has his Maine nonresident application on his desk.
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No need to "give up"...??... I don't think anyone is necessarily disagreeing with you on anything, just stating obvious societal observations.....at least in my case.
There have always been more sheep dogs than sheep........ but with the flock size growing, and so many people becoming even more apathetic and self-centered, there just aren't enough sheep dogs to go around any more, IMHO. The stories of decent folk standing up for others in violent encounters are getting more and more rare.....that was all I was getting at.
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:) Not that kind of give up. We can talk the situation to death, but our real job is to create a few new sheep dogs as we go along and prepare them to be on watch. 8)
Thanks for the encouragement!
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:) Not that kind of give up. We can talk the situation to death, but our real job is to create a few new sheep dogs as we go along and prepare them to be on watch. 8)
Thanks for the encouragement!
I have one, myself....(my 22 year old son who just happens to be my neighbor)....I think he listened a lot when it counted... ;) ;)
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:o I hate to get all serious on you guys but lets look at these incidents for a bit:
Virginia Tech: 49 casualties, 32 killed, 17 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", authorities wait outside until the evil doer is done
Fort Hood: 47 casualties,13 killed, 34 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", "when seconds counted authorities were minutes away"
Columbine: 39 casualties, 13 killed, 23 wounded. "Gun Free Zone", authorities waited outside until the evil doers were
done.
Tucson: 19 casualties, 6 people killed, 13 wounded. Constitutional Carry Zone Armed and unarmed citizens stop the evil
doer in a matter of seconds and prevent even more casualties.
At this point A.C.P. 45 trumps H.R. 308, as introduced by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) to ban large capacity ammunition magazines, like the one used by the Tucson shooter.
So, lemme see if'n I got this...
Guns don't kill people...
Gun Free Zones kill people.
I guess I'm still gonna carry my cute little .40S&W Glock.
Crusader
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So, lemme see if'n I got this...
Guns don't kill people...
Gun Free Zones kill people.
I guess I'm still gonna carry my cute little .40S&W Glock.
Crusader
**Wink-Wink...Nudge-Nudge**
I've finally carried mine so long that the Tennifer (sp) coating on the slide is wearing thin and bare metal is showing through. :o
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The solution is simple.
Just change the law to read that only honest people can carry guns.
You will have a law that criminals will not obey, just as usual ...and the same law that will be followed by honest people ...just like now...
The difference would be that honest people would be able to defend themselves.
I really would like to see a discussion with a lawmaker about just what part of that outcome they object to, particularly since the existing law does nothing to prevent criminals from going into gun free zones and killing.
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The CITY of Chicago has some of the most anti gun laws in the nation .
The STATE of New Hampshire has next to no gun laws.
Over the 4th of July weekend 2012 Chicago had 77 shootings.
I doubt NH has had that many shootings in the last 50 years.
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Tom, you know that chicago would still be a shit hole if they had no gun laws. Its the people.
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Peg: There have always been more sheep than sheep dogs.
Let us remember Dr. Liviu Librescu. Why does a 76 year old professor still go teach everyday?
Why does a 15 year old Lithuanian boy survive the Nazi death camps?
Why does an unarmed man fight an armed gunman at the door?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu)
"There is some good in this world and it's worth fighting for" :'(
Gotta say Librescu was one hell of a man. We are the poorer for his loss. Politics aside, you read that wiki article, and your heart breaks. He survived so much, and did so much good advancing science, and he died fighting so others might live. Its humbling, and hopefully inspiring. That guy deserves to be remembered. I can only hope to live so well and die so well.
Read the article. We owe it to him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu)
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Gotta say Librescu was one hell of a man. We are the poorer for his loss. Politics aside, you read that wiki article, and your heart breaks. He survived so much, and did so much good advancing science, and he died fighting so others might live. Its humbling, and hopefully inspiring. That guy deserves to be remembered. I can only hope to live so well and die so well.
Read the article. We owe it to him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu)
Quaker, you and can find a great deal to disagree about.
But, IMNSHO, you are right-on in this case.
Was it his background, his history, his genetics, his faith that made this slightly built elderly man a hero?
All of that may have contributed, but I think he had the spirit of a giant residing in that small body.
He was a hero for the way he lived, not the way he died. And, you are correct that we are all the poorer for his loss.
Crusader
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Tom, you know that chicago would still be a shit hole if they had no gun laws. Its the people.
OK, you got me on that one.
But the fact remains that cities and states with stricter gun laws have higher rates of violent crime than neighboring areas with less restrictive laws.
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Which means nothing. i bet they have higher numbers of people that buy milk shakes too. Its not a cuase and effect deal. perfect example is AK. lots of guns, no ccw needed. Yet they have the highest sexual assult rate ( by far) of any state in the union. once again, its the people.
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Well unfortunately I am back again but things were not quite as bad this time.
The headline from Fox News is "Hero instructor fought son in Wyoming college bow-and-arrow murder-suicide, police say"
This time reportedly it was a "high powered" cross bow and other edged weapon. Thank the Brady Project and Michael Bloomberg no guns were allowed.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/02/man-killed-father-in-wyoming-college-bow-and-arrow-murder-suicide-attack/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/02/man-killed-father-in-wyoming-college-bow-and-arrow-murder-suicide-attack/)
My home. I heard about this on the radio while we were on our way to Denver on Friday. My first thought, (as bad as it was) at least he didn't use a gun. We are currently rolling with a letter writing campaign to the Governor to put pressure on Casper College to allow concealed carry on campus, or at the very least arm their security personnel. My best friends uncle was the first security on the scene. UNARMED. How can you secure and defend when you are no better off than the sheep you are supposed to be protecting?