The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: alfsauve on June 27, 2018, 09:01:48 PM
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<I didn't know if this belong under Tactical Rifles or AR so by default it goes under the Cafe>
So Michael has been tantalizing us with his Bishop .458 SOCOM and I got intrigued. We don't seem to have a single thread dedicated to this caliber, so I thought I'd start one.
The suggestions from other forums is that the best use of this cartridge is in an AR platform. It works on an AR-15 lower and uses AR mags. Not a lot of advantage in a bolt action, some tend to think.
My b-day's coming up (hint-hint) so I was thinking this might be a nice present. But then I got to looking at ammo. $1.60/round for the cheapest I could find. Wow. And the Bishop bolt action starts at $1,900.
But I reload AND Optics Planet sells an Radical AR upper with BCG for $480.
Wonder if they'd be any market for a lever action? But then why not stay with 45/70 for <$1.25/round?
Anybody else toy with the idea of this round?
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if I remember correctly, Michael was once spotted in possession of a 14" Thompson Center Contender in 45-70.... it may have done permanent damage 8)
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I thought about the .458 SOCOM years ago, but ammo was nearly impossible to find then, and super expensive when I did find it online. The big selling point besides chucking big fat hunks of lead, is that it's supposed to work with no modifications to standard 5.56 magazines. It's fat enough to fill the inside width of the mag, at least enough for the mag lips to hold a round in place. A 90 round .223 snail-drum mag is supposed to hold 33 rounds of .458 IIRC. There's no mag I know of for the 450 Bushmaster that can hold anywhere near that many rounds. Since the 450 cartridge is skinnier than the .458, mags for it need to be modified. Feed lips bent inward would be my guess.
450 Bushmaster ammo is made by some of the big brands, like Remington, Winchester and Hornady, plus other brands, and can be found for $1.50 per round at Midway, and $1.48 for some on sale now. Technically speaking the .458 may be the better round, but the ammo is $2.15-$3.40 per round at Midway, in brands I've never seen in any store, except for maybe Buffalo Bore and I'm not sure I've seen it either. I know I can get Remington, Winchester and Hornady ammo at any gun store, and they're a lot more likely to stock 450 Bushmaster than .458 SOCOM. There's at least one suppressor made specifically for use with both rounds, so neither has the advantage there. I think I would get an AR chambered for the cheaper and more plentiful 450 Bushmaster ammo. And I don't get a commission from the round's designer.
P.S. I forgot to mention that 450 Bushmaster is legal to deer hunt with some places, like the "shotgun zone" of lower Michigan, and some other states where bottleneck calibers like .458 SOCOM aren't allowed.
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And is the 1/22 twist that Bishop uses better than the 1/14 twist everybody else uses?
I doubt if I'll ever hunt in S. Michigan so no worries.
Starline has the brass.
I've put the Lee dies on my birthday wish list. I think I'm getting sucked in.
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if I remember correctly, Michael was once spotted in possession of a 14" Thompson Center Contender in 45-70.... it may have done permanent damage 8)
My brother-in-law had one. 45/70 in a 14"T/C. He was intending to go hog hunting in FL with it. Said it didn't shoot worth a darn. I was down at his place shortly afterwards and was able to put 5 rounds in an 8" bull at 25yds. Two things I learned. Don't embarrass your bigger, older bad-ass b-i-l. And that I could shoot heavy rounds quite well thank you.
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And is the 1/22 twist that Bishop uses better than the 1/14 twist everybody else uses?
I doubt if I'll ever hunt in S. Michigan so no worries.
Starline has the brass.
I've put the Lee dies on my birthday wish list. I think I'm getting sucked in.
From what I read it's not just southern Michigan with that law. They said it was here plus a few whole states, but if you don't want to hunt in any of them, it's a moot point. There are calculations that can be made to tell you what rifling twist would most likely be the best for a given bullet and velocity. It must be online somewhere. It mostly depends on the weight, but also other aspects of the bullet. A twist rate that works great for 200 or 220 grain bullets may not work well with 500 or 600 grain bullets. You almost have to pick your ammo first to decide what twist rate you need on the gun you buy for it.
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From what I read it's not just southern Michigan with that law. They said it was here plus a few whole states, but if you don't want to hunt in any of them, it's a moot point.
<snip>
You almost have to pick your ammo first to decide what twist rate you need on the gun you buy for it.
I think parts of SC are shotgun only, but I don't know if they have an exemption for straight wall cartridges. As you said, only matters if you're going to hunt there.
Bishop appears to be the only one make 1/22 twist. Maybe if I actually took the time to listen to Michael's videos I'd find out. But I have trouble sitting still for videos.
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And what's about the different manufactures of uppers?
Radical okay? They're the cheapest least expensive.
CMMG
RRA?
Wilson?
Tromix?
Others?
Maybe I should piece this out myself.
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The CMMG .458 SOCOM MkW ANVIL is a mid-size platform like their 7.62x39mm Mk47 Mutant. The bolt and the front of the bolt carrier are as wide as on an AR-10, so there's a lot more steel between the rim of the case and the bolt lugs. It's a lot less likely to break, and .458 ARs do break sometimes. It has an adjustable gas block and comes with one 10 round mag. If anyone else is making a similar mid-size upper and lower I haven't seen it yet.
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You people are not helping one way or another. I have no good reason to get into .458S..... but still....
I've already downloaded all the reloading data I could find.
Just realized that Bishop Ammo also sells AR based uppers as well as the Bolt Action Scout. And that Dianne and I have a bond outside of guns.
I think this is going to happen, it's just a matter of AR vs Bolt. Rear charging vs Side. Economy vs Elite.
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NOT having much input from anyone, I pulled the trigger on a side charge upper+BCG from Bear Creek.
I've wanted to try a side charger as well as single shot, so I did. Plus the ejection port is enlarged to accommodate the larger rounds.
Probably this weekend I'll order the .458 bolt. All that's left (all, ha) is the barrel & fore end. Gas block and tube if I want semi-auto function.
I'll put this on an existing lower, until I sell my National Match Ar.
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And is the 1/22 twist that Bishop uses better than the 1/14 twist everybody else uses?
I doubt if I'll ever hunt in S. Michigan so no worries.
Starline has the brass.
I've put the Lee dies on my birthday wish list. I think I'm getting sucked in.
Since we built that rifle, let me correct the record: That rifle uses the standard 1/14 twist with the 16 inch barrel. I don’t know where you got 1/22....
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And is the 1/22 twist that Bishop uses better than the 1/14 twist everybody else uses?
I doubt if I'll ever hunt in S. Michigan so no worries.
Starline has the brass.
I've put the Lee dies on my birthday wish list. I think I'm getting sucked in.
Here is a photo I took awhile ago of our mark on his barrel
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180705/62b88899545ca0b8a1b96065025489ce.jpg)
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My Sincere apology. Ive been doing crash course in 458s and I obviously got confused.
It's Wilson combat that has the 1/22.
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Oh-uh. Look what followed me home?
Okay I'm safe at this point. This lower can be used for whatever.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-p7SWsd2/0/72111e66/L/20180707_091621-L.jpg)
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Ok, Mr. Fluffy Alien,
Please ‘splain what I’m looking at...
Lower
Pistol grip
Trigger group
What’s the left pile-o-parts fer?
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A new lower with a lower parts kit, pistol grip and a pound of powder most popular with .458 reloaders.
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I knew the lower parts kit but the left part of the kit supports what part of the lower?
I ain’t a black rifle guy, Alf..
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I knew the lower parts kit but the left part of the kit supports what part of the lower?
I ain’t a black rifle guy, Alf..
The container on the right is the trigger group;
The container on the left is the rest of the pins, springs, levers, etc. for the lower.
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Any of you eagle eyed would notice something missing. Had to call the store and have them search the display case for it. I'll pick it up next week.
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The container on the right is the trigger group;
The container on the left is the rest of the pins, springs, levers, etc. for the lower.
Got it... so basically everything for the lower.
Thanks
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No hammer.
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No hammer.
Yep.
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No hammer.
I believe that is what your furry little friend was referring to.
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Going out to a customer (my dad) today is this:
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They look so good. I'm just into experimenting right now and also don't quite have the coin for a Bishop bolt. When I win the next lottery.
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Oh Look! Overnight, the AR-15 Lower-Assembly-Fairy has put the lower together. (Yes, I had a spare hammer.) And "the fairy" had a little trouble remembering to assemble the magazine release before the bolt hold-open last night.
So far it's just a standard AR build. Though I trim a couple of coils out of the takedown pin retention springs and I'll replace those takedown pins with quick release types.
Now waiting on the side charging upper. And I'm at the point of committment. Ordering the barrel. .458 Socom? Or do I cave and get .300BO? Or a 6.x something or other? Please don't push me.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-pcfrMVX/1/2dd0b128/L/20180708_160954-L.jpg)
for reference these are the modified take down pins.
(https://op2.0ps.us/365-240-ffffff/opplanet-yankee-hill-machine-ez-pull-takedown-pins-front-rear-set.jpg)
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It's an AR, Uppers are cheap, think Chicago "Vote early (build what you like), Vote often (build as many as you like) ;D
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It's an AR, Uppers are cheap, think Chicago "Vote early (build what you like), Vote often (build as many as you like) ;D
;D
And looky what showed up today. My side charger.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-Ch5Vk3X/0/87b01bb3/L/20180708_161048-L.jpg)
Still just a "could-be-caliber-AR" except I ordered the .458 barrel and bolt from Tromix (sorry Dianne). They were after all the inventors, or at least the early instigators. Plus I ordered the barrel+bolt combination.
I'm committed now to seeing this .458s thing through.
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;D
And looky what showed up today. My side charger.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-Ch5Vk3X/0/87b01bb3/L/20180708_161048-L.jpg)
Still just a "could-be-caliber-AR" except I ordered the .458 barrel and bolt from Tromix (sorry Dianne). They were after all the inventors, or at least the early instigators. Plus I ordered the barrel+bolt combination.
I'm committed now to seeing this .458s thing through.
We don’t sell a side charger anyway. Yes Tromix made the first ones, but don’t discount other manufacturers either. There are other good ones out there.
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Alf... I may have posted this before, but just in case... if you need a heavy buffer (rifle length) for the beast
a rifle buffer filled with
7 1/2 lead shot 6.0 oz
1/2" brass rod 6.2
5/8" brass rod 7.0
poured solid lead 9.0
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The barrel and bolt arrived. Yeahh-h-h-h-h.
And Primary Arms had a 75% off flash sale Sunday morning on comps. I got one for 5/8-24 and one 1/2-28. $15ea.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-T2sbXxB/0/df418398/L/20180716_172301-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-5sPV7sJ/0/3854045f/L/20180716_172312-L.jpg)
Have decided to go with a 9" handguard. I tend to light full-length, but this will cover the gas block and help keep the weight reasonable.
My quandary right now is bullet weight. Hogs. That's what I intend to shoot. 325gr seems so right for this, but 300gr is so much cheaper.
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Nothing quite like an angry hog with tushes that would normally be happy just to eat you.
I'd go with the bullet that would do the job. Cheaper is for buying wine or furniture...or drapes.....
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I can honestly say that I didn't know that hog tushes could eat you... :o :o
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I can honestly say that I didn't know that hog tushes could eat you... :o :o
It's does not happen often, but it is a terrible way to go :D
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Concerning Alf's bullet weight issue, I don't know that 25gr is a great concern once you get into bullet weights above 300gr (ymmv). You can probably overcome the difference with a slight velocity increase (provided accuracy isn't affected).
**Concerning tushes.......
Funny that I had a conversation with a fellow a just few days ago about the word 'tushes' as it related to hogs. Tushes is a word that both my great-grandmother and grandmother used and I heard it many times as long as they lived. I used (and still use) the term as well, even though at times over the years I thought it was just a mispronunciation of something like "tusks" as we southerners can do with words. I looked it up in the dictionary once and discovered tushes is the proper plural form of 'tush' meaning a long pointed tooth, and in particular the canine tooth of a male horse.....and in some Indian elephants a stunted tusk.
The term tush as most use it in reference to the butt is a slang derivative of several other words in other languages like Yiddish and Hebrew for the bottom.
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I believe that at that weight 25 gr one way or another is going to be more an accuracy tweak than power factor or energy transfer.
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I was thinking bullet construction is very important. I'd go with a sledgehammer of a bullet that will retain it's weight better when, literally, "the bullet hits the bone". Expansion will also matter. If both are of equal construction the 25 grain difference probably won't matter. However, reliable feeding will matter most. I should have said what I was thinking instead of being in such a hurry.
And yes Majer, they will run you down make a meal out of you. My dad spent a night in a tree once when he was a young and always impressed upon me the importance of having a place to go if there were hogs in the area. The hogs we have now are even more aggressive then what people used to run into a century or even 25 years ago.
Escaped domestic hogs will "de-evolve" after a couple of generations into something more wild than they started out as...which I find fascinating. It was the escaped domestic hogs that were the problem years ago...but the new ones are Russian boars stock which start out big, strong and pissed off.
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If you want to buy in cheaply to the 458 craze Primary Arms has barrel and stripped upper for $99.
http://www.primaryarms.com/Bear-Creek-Arsenal-16-in-parkerized-458-SOCOM-Carbine-Barrel?trk_msg=PEGB0A08O9D411V5RIDKJ0RPPS&trk_contact=J93KEOC5AVVQGSGRBGB8GVSINK&trk_sid=0M481V1LOVJ7HJI353JSFF7SQ8&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=BANNER_1&utm_campaign=18_07_Ad_22_BOGO (http://www.primaryarms.com/Bear-Creek-Arsenal-16-in-parkerized-458-SOCOM-Carbine-Barrel?trk_msg=PEGB0A08O9D411V5RIDKJ0RPPS&trk_contact=J93KEOC5AVVQGSGRBGB8GVSINK&trk_sid=0M481V1LOVJ7HJI353JSFF7SQ8&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=BANNER_1&utm_campaign=18_07_Ad_22_BOGO)
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I was thinking bullet construction is very important. I'd go with a sledgehammer of a bullet that will retain it's weight better when, literally, "the bullet hits the bone". Expansion will also matter. If both are of equal construction the 25 grain difference probably won't matter. However, reliable feeding will matter most. I should have said what I was thinking instead of being in such a hurry.
And yes Majer, they will run you down make a meal out of you. My dad spent a night in a tree once when he was a young and always impressed upon me the importance of having a place to go if there were hogs in the area. The hogs we have now are even more aggressive then what people used to run into a century or even 25 years ago.
Escaped domestic hogs will "de-evolve" after a couple of generations into something more wild than they started out as...which I find fascinating. It was the escaped domestic hogs that were the problem years ago...but the new ones are Russian boars stock which start out big, strong and pissed off.
Indeed so..... hard-hitting bullets are needed, and bullet design and construction is critical when dealing with hogs. I have a close friend who shot a hog between the eyes with a .357 magnum and the bullet cut the skin but glanced off the hog's forehead, pissing it off more than injuring it.
Alf, you mentioned bullet weights, but not particular brands or designs. What are you looking at there?
My thinking is something in the solid bullet arena like those by Barnes.
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The barrel and bolt arrived. Yeahh-h-h-h-h.
And Primary Arms had a 75% off flash sale Sunday morning on comps. I got one for 5/8-24 and one 1/2-28. $15ea.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-T2sbXxB/0/df418398/L/20180716_172301-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-5sPV7sJ/0/3854045f/L/20180716_172312-L.jpg)
Have decided to go with a 9" handguard. I tend to light full-length, but this will cover the gas block and help keep the weight reasonable.
My quandary right now is bullet weight. Hogs. That's what I intend to shoot. 325gr seems so right for this, but 300gr is so much cheaper.
Check out SBR Ammunition, Underwood Ammunition, Black Butterfly Ammunition (and us) for quality 458 SOCOM Ammunition.
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Check out SBR Ammunition, Underwood Ammunition, Black Butterfly Ammunition (and us) for quality 458 SOCOM Ammunition.
I have and will. It's just the 300gr vs 325gr debate. I think I'm going to go with less expensive 300gr loads for initial testing, break-in and sighting. Then probably switch to 325gr when I get ready to hit the field this fall.
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So dug around the old cabinet and found a Magpul stock that has a decent cheek weld area. Because this upper doesn't have a rear charging handle I can build up the top of the stock as high as I like. All I lack now is the handguard and a scope. (And ammo of course)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-j24vG2Q/0/5900a598/L/20180723_092347-L.jpg)
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So here it is. Right now I have the Sig Romeo 5 sight on because I had one available. Eventually, I'll put a Bushnell AR 1-4x20 with throwdown lever.
Also I have the gas block on backwards so that it covers the gas port, making this a single shot for the time being.
It's made up of:
Bear Creek Upper Right side Charging and bolt
Anderson Lower with mixed parts
Tromix 16" Barrel and Bolt
GLFA Muzzle Brake Devastator
Magpul Stock
Rifle Supply 10" tube handguard.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-ZLgZ89N/0/1490d0d7/X3/20180728_174418-X3.jpg)
I know there have been plenty of pictures of the round, but I kinda like mine. XCaliber 300gr Hornady JHP. Also have Black Butterfly on order.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-2C2x3m9/0/820fa27e/L/458%20Socom%20small-L.png)
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Function tested it today! ! ! !
Yes, it kicks just like you're think a .45 caliber would.
I tested it in single shot mode. Something I've wanted to try with ARs for a while. Guess what? After you fire it nothing happens. Oh gosh, Capt Obvious.
I'm glad I got a side bolt. I think 458S may have some feeding issues depending on the magazine and the bullet ogive. I was using Hornady 300gr JHPs which have a flat, short nose. Had to help it a little. I couldn't just pull the bolt back and release it. I will read up on the magazine situation. Seem to remember some magazines need the front lip ground down just a little. I was using a 5 and 10 round metal mags. Next time out I'll try some other styles of magazines.
This was ammo from XCaliber and it averaged 1,880fps with an PF of 564. Impressive. (Black Butterfly on order) I wasn't going for groups since I am using a Romeo 5 and was shooting in an indoor range. I did sight it in, just in case I need to use it before I get the Bushnell 1-4x.
On the way home I stopped by our local prepper place (TruPrep) and was VERY surprised when I discovered they expanded the AR offerings and carry more parts than some on-line places. WOW. 6 different lower manufacturers, lots of every conceivable part, dozens of uppers, barrels & hand guards. You can buy from 3 different manufacturers parts kits, or you can buy every part separately. It is the most parts I've ever seen in a brick and mortar gun store. So an Aero Precision M-Lok hand guard with no rails jumped out at me. Exactly what I had been looking for. $99 w/ barrel nut.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-RqbJ3z3/0/9c94d48a/X3/20180730_125445-X3.jpg)
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/53e4d1ef8b7080c8c9d638c872a717ca.jpg)
So we made some new 300 grain FTX and 325 grain TTSX 458 SOCOM rounds yesterday, primarily for Dad, and we’re going to sell the rest off to local dealers that have been clamoring for it
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/53e4d1ef8b7080c8c9d638c872a717ca.jpg)
So we made some new 300 grain FTX and 325 grain TTSX 458 SOCOM rounds yesterday, primarily for Dad, and we’re going to sell the rest off to local dealers that have been clamoring for it
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/84a96da01e93f3c7c7b40dbe62bf5530.jpg)
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I saw those on FB. Got some coming in from some dealer. Possibly Friday will be big bore day at the range for me. That is if I can get my scope in time.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/84a96da01e93f3c7c7b40dbe62bf5530.jpg)
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OK. O see Blue and Red...... Now someone HAS to make white to complete the set!
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<snip>
Also I have the gas block on backwards so that it covers the gas port, making this a single shot for the time being.
<snip>
Have you taken it up to "full strength" yet?
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Have you taken it up to "full strength" yet?
I'm thinking those were pretty much "full strength".
Ran into a little problem, besides the 5" of rain, with more coming, which has curtailed going to the range.
I had assumed any side charging upper would have a large enough ejection port to handle the .458 case. Of course, I was wrong. Bear Creek's upper is not quite big enough. Darn. Two options. Order a CMT upper explictly enlarged for .458. OR borrow Michaels Dremel tool and open up the Bear Creek port myself.
Relax. I ordered a CMT upper.
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I'm thinking those were pretty much "full strength".
<snip>
Sorry, I meant semi-auto not single shot.....
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Why the right side charging handle? Are you a lefty or righty? I think I would have a problem reaching over the top of the scope with my left hand to work it. A left side charging handle would let me keep my right hand on the grip, and the rifle somewhat in firing position.
I can reach over the top of my shotgun to work the bolt left-handed, but it has a MUCH bigger than stock bolt handle that's extended upward, and no scope on it.
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Why the right side charging handle? Are you a lefty or righty? I think I would have a problem reaching over the top of the scope with my left hand to work it.
I'm a righty and I like the the charging handle on the right side. Others like it on their weak side. I've owned other designed rifles, with right side ejection, that have had charging on the left and some with charging on the right. I definitely like strong side charging.
Here's my thinking. JUST MY OPINION.
Rear charging (AR) has the big advantage of being ambidextrous. It doesn't matter which side the ejection port is on nor which hand you use. Works the exact same. And that means you can chose whether to use strong hand (grip/trigger hand) or weak hand (fore end hand) to charge.
It creates a "problem" though or at least a trade off. First it means nothing can stick up on the stock, like a cheek piece that will interfere with the handle. The same goes with any rearward sitting scope that would get in the way of gripping the handle. There are of course workarounds for these problems. There are movable cheek pieces and extended handles, but it's still a trade off. It is also pretty much impossible to charge an AR while holding it on your shoulder. Lastly, I think the handle, when fully extended is a weak link in the AR design. If you've got to hold the handle back then use the other hand to clear some obstruction there'a risk of bending it.
I think most all ARs (at least mine) are inherently front heavy and do not balance around the trigger. Hence holding an AR with the strong(trigger) hand alone is difficult. I was taught and I think it natural to hold an AR with by the handguard/forend and operate the charging handle with the strong hand. Placing the butt up against the body or thigh for stability, if needed.
Strong side (right for me) charging handle seems to allow for strong hand charging that can be accomplished without removing the butt from the shoulder, while at the same time using the weak hand holding the hand guard to keep the rifle firmly against the shoulder. It means the stock can have an elevated cheek piece and the charging handle (a short stub of metal) is not going to get bent easily. It's also possible to hold the rifle with the strong hand while the thumb of the strong hand holds the bolt open. This allows the weak hand to clear any obstruction without the use of the hold-open device. A useful technique when the clock is running. No Forward assist is needed for side chargers either. Makes for a clean looking gun.
The negative with reciprocating side chargers is that 1" stub is flying back and forth with each shot and could hang up on something. It's also possible to snag it when not firing and cause the gun to be out of battery. This doesn't have seem to have been a significant problem with the guns that are worshiped like the M1-Garand, nor with the AK.
There are, of course, non-reciprocating side chargers available in both weak side and strong side operation. While typically reciprocating side chargers are only available on the same side as the ejection port (I'm sure there's an exception.) Let me repeat that for those who haven't done the research: There are left side ejection and charging uppers as well as right side ones.
I LOVE the side charger. Either way, what's really wonderful is that Stoner's basic design is so accommodating. You can pick side or rear or both charging. You can pick left or right ejection and charging, you can chose between recip or non-recip. I'm not sure Stoner foresaw all of this but it's wonderful none the same.
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[Back to MY 458..... it is after all about me. ;) ]
I'm so happy. Oh, so happy.
Did the upgrades/changes and took it to the local indoor range for testing. Works great. Shoots great. Comparing it side by side (in semi-auto mode) with a comparable 5.56mm everyone is right. The recoil is not that much more.
Here's what I've done.
The Bear Creek side charging upper is NOT cut for 458S. My mistake. I could, I know, send it off and have it enlarged, or I could borrow Bane's Dremel and do it myself. But instead I used it to upgrade one of my 5.56mms from rear to side charging. I then ordered a CMT right side charging upper. I waited on the BCG until I could test it, which is good because the Bear Creek BCG works with the CMT upper.
Put a 1-4x24mm Bushnell illuminated scope on it. This is the one with the quick change lever. Also, if the battery dies, you can still see the reticle, so you're not totally out of business. They've been discontinued and I'm glad I have two, one for my tactical 5.56 and one for this hog gun.
I was worried about the magazines but I've tested it with AR Stoner (Midway) and P-Mag20s and they work just fine as is. No modification.
HOG HAMMER:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-V9bCNz2/0/757c30be/L/20180808_161918-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-Db3vWLd/0/8a10900d/XL/20180808_162033-XL.jpg)
Here's my target. (25yds indoors) Now understand a couple of shots were used to move the zero some and 5 shots were taken using the 1x. These were 300gr Hornady JHPs, commercially made. I picked up some 325gr FTXs and will try some handloads of these. Even if this gun ONLY group 2MOA, that's more than enough for hogs or deer around here.
1" dots. I aimed between them because the illuminated circle worked out to just fit between them.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-44mg6ZW/0/fa5a491b/XL/20180810_125559-XL.jpg)
Final configuration.
Anderson Lower with mostly Anderson LPK
Magpul stock
CMT Upper
Bear Creek BCG
Tromix barrel and bolt
GLFA Muzzle Brake Devastator
Aero Precision hand guard
Bushnel 1-4x24mm illum PCL scope
Next up will be big bore range day at the 100yd range.
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In some things, I like big holes!
Well done, Alf!
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Very nice looking carbine. Besides their Side Charger Billet Upper, CMT Tactical also has .458 SOCOM Compatible uppers for use with a forward assist and dust cover, or with neither. The side charger was made to be used with a Young MFG National Match right side charged BCG. It's a good thing the Bear Creek Arsenal BCG also works in it. It should. BCGs tend to be the same diameter.
I read the reviews for the BCA side charging bolt carrier and BCG on their website. Both reviews of the right side charging BC said they have to use Loctite on the bolt handle after removing it to clean the gun. One review on the left side charging .223/5.56 NATO BCG was nothing but positive. The other one said it has a right handed gas key on it, which wont allow him to remove the cam pin to clean the bolt.
P.S. Is a .458 HAM’R in the works next? ;D
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Looks great. I'm looking forward to your 100 yard results.
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It's a good thing the Bear Creek Arsenal BCG also works in it. It should. BCGs tend to be the same diameter.
..........
P.S. Is a .458 HAM’R in the works next? ;D
All AR15 mil spec BCGs should be the same dimension. It's the placement and size of the side charging handle that's the concern. Lucky CMT cuts there upper the same as Bear Creek, because Young's BCGs are very expensive.
IF I build another thumper I might have to go with that new .50 auto rim caliber. Built on AR10 platform. Twice the Energy of the 458S.
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One major bug with this type of side charger is you can't remove the bolt without first removing the handle.
But I can easily store the appropriate hex key in the stock so it's always possible to remove it in the field.
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AR500. .50 Auto Max
www.bighornarmory.com (http://www.bighornarmory.com)
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If you're going to go big it may as well be a .50 caliber. Anything bigger would be overkill.
http://www.bighornarmory.com/catalog/big-horn-armory-products/ar500-500-auto-max-16/
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=534
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So I have just skimmed over the big caliber conversions the last few years waiting on something to settle. Seems like it's settling into some favorites now.
Right or wrong, I think this started with the 450 Bushmaster. What are the top 3 choices now (understanding Dianne, et.al. have a new one on the way)?
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For the AR 15 framework.
In .30 caliber there's .300Blackout and 7.62x39
Then there's the .375 SOCOM
Above that you have the .450Bushmaster and the 458SOCOM
Problem is the SOCOM's are not SAMMI yet.
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[Had a bad day at the range. Scope problems. You crank in an 1" of UP correction and the bullet placements moves RIGHT. YES, I have the scope on correctly. ]
At my range, River Bend Gun Club, each of the ranges has a street number as part of the emergency procedures and protocols. Here's our Multi-Purpose 100yd range. Definitely a sign that I'm using the right caliber.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-gPvM6Rg/0/c38c4c1c/L/20180821_102826-L.jpg)
Then the other day I saw this sign at a local "convenience" store.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Humor-Politics/i-8f3LWVq/0/6c8256b6/L/20180807_123357-L.jpg)
And lastly, Wikileaks just release this photo that NASA has suppressed for some time.
FIRST PICTURE FROM MARS by CURIOSITY
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Humor-Politics/i-4BLRC23/0/3051f8e9/M/39289303_987444334790586_3015329073451761664_n-M.png)
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Shooting your .458 at 458. 8) Would it happen to be 2 minutes til 5 o'clock?
That sucks about the scope. How is that even possible? Bourbon isn't the answer.
There should be a Walmart and another Starbucks in the last pic.
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Always time for Bourbon!
We have 4 CVSs within a 1.5mi stretch of road.
I was "tinkering" with the scopes and one of those universal laser bore sight units. I think I got carried away and turned the scope adjustment(s) much to far and now the whole thing is whacky. There are 3 of them I did this too!!! One by one I'll see about centering the adjustments. Not ready to blame the bore sight just yet. Maybe just a warning about getting over exuberant in using them once I figure out what I did.
Good news is my varmint AR, 10# of solid bull barrel and solid, full metal hand guard still shoots like a tack driver. I didn't mess with it ;)
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I just noticed the Tromix barrel...kewl.
The scope could be the problem. I'm assuming when you said the scope is on correctly that means vertical crosshair alignment. I've had a problem with scope rings being out-of-alignment and causing scope drift on power and crosshair adjustments. Ever since I started aligning and honing scope rings I have had much better scope success.
I have especially had problems on some of the one piece rings...the ones where the two rings are connected by a solid piece of metal they were machined from. Those look like top notch rings but if you didn't hone them it may be an issue.
Just my 2 cents. I have one inch, 30 MM and 34 MM scope ring alignment and honing kits from our friend Larry Potterfield....I'm just sayin'....
Otherwise the scope may need to go back....
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SBR sells .458 SOCOM ammo with a 250 grain Barnes TSX bullet at 1990 fps with a muzzle energy of 2004 ft/lbs
and also .375 SOCOM ammo with a 250 grain BARNES TTSX bullet at 2125 fps with a muzzle energy of 2507 ft/lbs.
That's a 25% increase in power for the same bullet weight, with a flatter trajectory and longer effective range.
A box of the .375 SOCOM ammo is 96 cents more expensive, but if you're spending 55 bucks on a box of ammo
I don't think 56 bucks a box is going to break you.
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Ouch. $55-56 a box! My goodness....ouch that would leave a mark.
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Ouch. $55-56 a box! My goodness....ouch that would leave a mark.
I can't afford the ammo, much less a new upper. If 5.56 mm isn't big enough, I'll just have to settle for my .44 Magnum lever action. I could buy a lot more ammo for the same price. If I have to shoot twice instead of once I might still be money ahead.
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Alf, there should be at least 7 Dollar General stores in that last photo.
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You know things are bad here when dollar stores can't stay open. Buddy can you spare a buck?