The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Reloading => Topic started by: billt on September 20, 2010, 08:45:45 AM
-
Anyone ever use this stuff? For years I've used nothing but ground corn cob with brass polish added. It works well, but requires a long tumble for best results. I stumbled on to this stuff, and it looks really good!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdvq3Kc_Vm0
I really like the way it cleans the primer pockets as well as the flash holes, and it doesn't get stuck in the flash holes like corn cob does. I'm not sure if you have to use it wet or not. It appears so. I have a Thumlers Model B Tumbler, but I haven't used it in years since I got a Dillon FL-2000. I don't think you can use the Dillon model with wet media. The Stainless Steel media also will never wear out. It's avaliable here:
http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/
I'm going to look into it further, and try to get some more information. If I had more room I would like to get one of those small, motorized cement mixers from Harbor Freight. They have models with plastic barrels that are small enough to be just about perfect for polishing brass with this stuff, and it's obviously no problem to use them wet. Bill T.
-
From the Tips
Q. Will your media work in a vibratory type tumbler?
A. No, the media and the water just weigh to much for the average type vibratory tumblers to get any results.
It looks like it needs to be used wet. And even if the big Dillion shaker can handle the weight, the water still might be a problem.
-
I'll drag out my Thumblers Model B Tumbler today. I'll fire it up to make sure it works. Bill T.
-
Looks like it would work best for rifle brass. A couple extra steps if you ask me. Not sure I want to go that route.
JMHOFWIW
Richard
-
Looks like it would work best for rifle brass. A couple extra steps if you ask me. Not sure I want to go that route.
JMHOFWIW
Richard
Depends upon how much time you spend on primer pockets, let alone flash holes.
You get to know each case by it's first name checking each one of them for faults. You get to know their Nicknames and birthdays doing primer pocket maintenance.
-
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/2281046731
Here is a good report on it. Pretty impressive results. Bill T.
-
Sounds like a bad idea. More than likely it actually removes brass from the cases, I'm currently waiting for a machine that got Stainless dust in the drive mechanism, it tore up a lot of things in there. Also, it will get everywhere.
Second, you can figure on replacing your tumbler as anything that aggressive will eventually abrade the bottom out of it.
Third, You're going to put dish soap and water where you want gunpowder to work properly ?
Stick with the proven stuff, so what if walnut shells take a little longer, you will be letting them sit for 2 days for the water to dry out.
-
More than likely it actually removes brass from the cases.
If it did that you would know it right away because the resized cases would have no neck tension when you seated the bullet. Not to mention primers would fall out of the pockets.
Second, you can figure on replacing your tumbler as anything that aggressive will eventually abrade the bottom out of it.
They polish ROCKS in these things. Others use rocks, (ceramic), as a media to polish. We have machines at work that have been running for over 20 years with ceramic and carborundum media in them. They'll outlast us.
Third, You're going to put dish soap and water where you want gunpowder to work properly ?
Come on, you have to let them dry! Hornady sells a liquid Ultrasonic Cleaner. I've been using one for years and have been washing shotshell hulls in the dishwasher since the 70's. I've never had a misfire. You dry your clothes after you wash them before you wear them, why wouldn't you do the same with your brass before you load it? Bill T.
-
Got me wondering how these little stainless billets work.....
I'm guessing that any battering of the cases is eliminated by being immersed in water? I'd guess that without the water in a tumbler, the brass would take a beating.
And how exactly is the crud removed? Maybe the billets sort of "flow" with the shape of the case and any little irregularity is bumped off?
I assume the water penetrates and loosens the crud and the soap helps it do so by reducing surface tension and the polish component shines up the brass.
One of the posts stated you needed the faster rotating tumbler, 140 speed I think it was, to do a good job, so maybe keeping everything moving and less settled makes a difference.
I'd like to see a video of what everything is doing in that tumbler.
Who is our "Fluid Dynamics" expert here?
-
Heck, the dawn detergent probably does the most work of any component....been cleaning Black powder guns with it for years. The thing might even work just as well with something like BB's or the like as an agitation agent.
As to the wear on the cases, in my former line of work, I've seen rubber hoses wear a hole in steel hydraulic tubing via vibration. Also saw UHMW (ultra high molecular weight) plastic that would wear out steel rollers, way before it showed any signs of wear at all. Wear characteristics are a strange thing.
With the water and detergent as lube/cleaning agents, case wear should be minimal. Remove the detergent and you may have trouble. We used giant vibratory tumblers with various media for years using detergents and water as tumbling lube.
-
If it did that you would know it right away because the resized cases would have no neck tension when you seated the bullet. Not to mention primers would fall out of the pockets.
They polish ROCKS in these things. Others use rocks, (ceramic), as a media to polish. We have machines at work that have been running for over 20 years with ceramic and carborundum media in them. They'll outlast us.
Come on, you have to let them dry! Hornady sells a liquid Ultrasonic Cleaner. I've been using one for years and have been washing shotshell hulls in the dishwasher since the 70's. I've never had a misfire. You dry your clothes after you wash them before you wear them, why wouldn't you do the same with your brass before you load it? Bill T.
Until you have laid out the money you do not know that will not happen.
They polish rocks, yes, but rocks break down a lot easier than St/St, also if you look, that tumbling media is rounded at the corners.
Use regular media, corncobs or walnut shells and there is no drying, you don't pick up a suit from the dry cleaner and throw it in the dryer, do you ?
-
Common sense dictates if this stuff was detrimental to brass in any way, shape, or form, it would have been found out by now, and this stuff would not have achieved the following it has in such a short period of time. In short the stuff works, and works well. The only question left to ask, is if the reloader wants to undertake the expense to have spotless brass? That is up to the reloader. Bill T.
-
Bill, I'm just throwing out thoughts based on my experiences with Stainless, which include broke machines and nasty cuts, but not cleaning brass, (Used dura-glit for that).
I will only add that when you read those endorsements you should remember that "Thalidimide" worked really good on morning sickness,( Melanie can fill you in on that. ) and DDT was real good at keeping ants out of your house.
Beware the unintended consequence.
PS, When did "Common sense" ever enter into business ?
We can't even get that from the News.
-
I will only add that when you read those endorsements you should remember that "Thalidimide" worked really good on morning sickness,( Melanie can fill you in on that. ) and DDT was real good at keeping ants out of your house.
You're comparing apples to oranges. Stainless Steel cleaning cartridge brass to DDT??? Really? Bill T.
-
Not at all Bill, both of my examples worked perfectly, except that one resulted in birth defects, and the other was wreaking environmental havoc.
Both severe unintended consequences, if the St /St does erode the brass you stand a good chance of blowing up at least one gun, that also is a fairly severe (presumably ) unintended consequence.
Apples to apples.
-
I'm just having a difficult time reading in environmental havoc and birth defects into polishing brass. Where am I going wrong? Bill T.
-
Have a rifle blow up in your face, you'll understand. ;D
-
How about just adding some crushed walnut shells to your corncobs 'till you get a nice compromise between slow polishing ad ruining your brass? No crazy elements or alloys to deal with. (Unless walnuts are destroying the ozone or something.)
-
In over 40 years of handloading and shooting I have never seen, read, heard of, or come across anyone who has been hurt, or had a firearm damaged or destroyed because they polished their brass in "bad media". It's starting to get a little bit deep. Bill T.
-
Hey, you asked.
-
Well, yesterday I ordered 15 pounds of this stuff. I got it from here:
http://www.pelletsllc.com/
The guy was super nice to deal with. I explained what I wanted it for and he seemed very interested. I gave him a few websites to check out so he could see for himself how this stuff was catching on in a really big way. He only charged me $70.20 shipped for the 15 pounds. I got out my old Thumlers Tumbler and cleaned her up and oiled it. It still runs like a top. If this stuff works as well as I think it's going to, I may invest in one of those small, electrically powered cement mixers from Harbor Freight. The kind with the plastic drum. It would be perfect for doing large amounts of brass, or .50 BMG brass as well. If anyone is intrested, this is the product number for what you want:
SCW-40X.265
I've got a bunch of .223 / 5.56 MM range pick up brass that looks pretty nasty. I'm going to resize and deprime it, then run it all through my Giraud Power Case Trimmer. After that I'll give it the Stainless Media polishing treatment. If this stuff comes out like new, anything will. When I get the stuff I'll try to post some pics of the results. Bill T.
-
My 15 pounds of Stainless Steel Wire Shot just arrived USPS Priority Mail. Melanie picked up a small bottle of Dawn and a bottle of Lemi-Shine today at Wal-Mart, so I'm ready to go! I got the Thumlers all cleaned up, oiled, and ready to go as well.
I've got a few hundred .223 cases I'm going to resize and deprime, then I'll run them through my Giraud Power Case Trimmer next week. After that I'm going to try the new Stainless Media. I'm looking forward to this. The cases I've got are mixed headstamp, range pick up brass. They have annealed necks. Next Thursday I've got to go in for Hernia surgery, so I'll be laid up for a while. I'm hoping to do this Monday and Tuesday before. I'll try to take some pics before and after. I still have to get some kind of media separator. This is a good video that demonstrates the entire process, and shows the results. Bill T.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-6SOiWE8Hc
-
How did it go?
My 15 pounds of Stainless Steel Wire Shot just arrived USPS Priority Mail. .......
-
I haven't used it as of yet. I've been pretty sore this past week from my surgery. Hopefully by the end of next week I'll give it a shot. I'm anxious to see how it works. Bill T.
-
This morning I just finished my first, experimental batch of brass with this stuff. (150 rounds of mixed headstamp range pickup .223). The stuff was pretty grungy. I started by running it through my Ultrasonic Cleaner with a mixture of hot water and some dish washing soap to get the grit off so I wouldn't scratch my resizing die. I then full length resized and deprimed it with a RCBS Small Base Resizing Die. After that I ran all of them through my Dillon 600 Super Swage to remove any crimp on the primer pockets. Not all were military, but it was easier to run them all through rather than waste time separating them. Next I ran all of them through my Giraud Power Case Trimmer. It does a really nice job of trimming them to length, plus it puts a nice chamfer on both the inside, and breaks the burr on the outside of the case at the same time. It's amazing how much brass it removes from just 150 cases trimming them to minimum overall length.
After that I tossed them into the Thumlers Tumbler with 5 pounds of the Stainless Steel Media, a tablespoon of "Dawn" dish washing liquid, and 1/8th teaspoon of "Lemi-Shine". I then filled the tumbler up to within an inch of the top with luke warm water. I then installed the lid, tossed it on the tumbler, and plugged it in at 1:30 PM yesterday afternoon. I decided to let it run overnight because the brass was really dull and dirty, and also because my Thumlers Tumbler has a 1,500 RPM motor. The newer units have the 3,000 RPM motor, and give faster results. I didn't want to rush it, and I wanted the brass to be as clean as possible.
I got up at 3:30 AM this morning because I've got an early dentist appointment, (6:30 AM), and I wanted to get the brass out of the tumbler, rinsed, and drying before I left. THE BRASS CAME OUT BEAUTIFUL! Without any exaggeration the stuff is cleaner and shinier than new brass. The primer pockets and flash holes were absolutely spotless, and the cases shined inside and out. I'll try to get some pictures up later this afternoon when they're finished drying.
The only issue I had was partly my fault. The video on this stuff shows them using a Frankford Arsenal Media Separator. Cabela's has them and they're not that expensive. I was going to go pick one up yesterday, but I was too lazy. Melanie and I had a few glasses of wine each, and I wasn't going anywhere. The media separator allows you to float the Stainless Steel Media out of the cases by tumbling them partially submerged in the provided bucket you get with the separator. This is important otherwise the surface tension of the water will cause the media to stick to the sides of the case. I only had 150 cases so I just ran them under a light stream of tap water and it worked fine. I'm going to get the media separator because it would be a PITA to do that with a large batch of several hundred cases. This is the way to go if you want really nice clean brass. I'm still in the experimental stage with this stuff. Next I want to find a method and tumbler for large amounts. It all sounds more involved than it really is. The actual cleaning of the brass itself is an all but effortless process. Prepping the brass is always a pain, but you have to do it if you want good reloads. Remember, this was range pick up brass. It was filthy, dirty, and totally grungy inside and out. Even the inside of the case rims shine like new brass, and they were completely black! Bill T.
-
This is about the best I could do with my crappy little Sony Cybershot. But it shows how well this media works.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/StainlessSteelPolishingMedia004.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/StainlessSteelPolishingMedia002.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/StainlessSteelPolishingMedia007.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/StainlessSteelPolishingMedia008.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/StainlessSteelPolishingMedia009.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/StainlessSteelPolishingMedia010.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/StainlessSteelPolishingMedia013.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/StainlessSteelPolishingMedia015.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/StainlessSteelPolishingMedia014.jpg)
The photos show the cases drying in the Sun, and also show how clean the Stainless Steel Media gets the inside of the cases, as well as the primer pockets. It also shows the size of the Stainless Steel Wire Shot used in the process. I just wish I had taken some "before" photos, so you could see how bad they were before I started. If you look closely you can see it even polished the burrs on the inside of the flash hole! Bill T.
-
Wow! VERY shiny inside and out. I wonder though, how hard is it on the brass?
-
Wow! VERY shiny inside and out. I wonder though, how hard is it on the brass?
Not hard at all. It dimensionally checks the very same as when it went in. It only removes dirt, not brass. Bill T.
-
Excellent report, Bill...thanks for the info.....I mentioned this stuff to a friend and he is definitely interested because he owns a range and gets a lot of very dirty brass and is thinking of starting to load range loads for a few friends.