The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: billt on May 01, 2018, 07:10:28 AM
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I mentioned a while ago that I had my driveway widened. Now I want to wall it in, and install a locking RV Gate so I'll have more storage area. (All 3 of my neighbors have done this). So I called my HOA expecting a nightmare. They were actually quite easy to deal with, and gave me a written letter of approval in less than a week.
So yesterday I drove downtown to apply for, and get a building permit from the City Of Phoenix. Mind you all I want to do is extend the existing block wall along my property line to within 10 feet of the front of the house, (which is the closest allowed). And gate it off. That's it.
The first nit wit I had to deal with spent a half hour trying to tell me the dimension from the front property line to the front of the house was missing on the drawing. I told him the house has been there for the last 20 years. And I assured him that I have not moved it since. And politely informed him I was building the wall along side the house, and not in front of it. He finally approved what I want to do, and sent me to the second guy who actually issues the permit.
This nit wit issued the permit 3 TIMES, with either the wrong name or address on it. (Both were on the drawing I submitted). It literally took him almost an HOUR to finally get it right! Unbelievable. Finally, I got sent to the, "Payment Division", who took my money...... All $234.00 of it. She was the only one there who actually knew what she was doing. (The one move every city has down pat is collecting money).
By the time I got back to my car, the parking meter had only 6 minutes left on it. I put 2 hours worth of quarters in it to be on the safe side. I was glad I did, or I would have had a parking ticket added on to everything else.
The only joy I had, is there were literally thousands of teachers in red tee shirts marching downtown for more pay. While waiting for the light to change to cross the street, one of them asked me if I, "supported their position". I asked her who was teaching the kids while they were all out in the Sun in shorts and tee shirts, bitching and moaning for more money? (The Phoenix Public Schools are all closed, because they all called in sick). She just looked at me completely bewildered. Jesus Christ what a day. I was never so glad to get home!
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Welcome too my world.
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It is likely that the money collectors in a government agency are the most capable employees on the payroll....they have to be able to make change.
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What's really fun is when you go through plan approval, they say make these changes. You make the changes, it gets denied again and they tell you to go back to how it originally was. You should be able to call them out on it but you can't. Meanwhile you have to pay the fees again and it can take sometimes months to get an answer from them. When I was in Sacramento it was not uncommon to have a simple addition take 14 months to get approved. The worst I ever had was 46 months. There was 7 revisions and an additional $19,000. On average in the city of Sacramento it was costing about $75 a square foot just for fees design and permits yes. I can build you a pretty decent house for $75 a square foot. It would always crack me up and politicians would complain about the lack of affordable housing. Well maybe if you didn't charge approximately 75% of the build cost people might actually built affordable housing.
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What's funny is I was there almost 2 hours, and no one asked me one single question pertinent to the construction of the wall or gate itself..... Which I expected. For example. How deep are you going to pour the footing? How wide? What PSI concrete are you going to be using on said footing? What size and length rebar? What are the dimensions of the cinder block you will be using? Will they match what already exists? Who is the manufacturer of the gate? What are the dimensions? How will it be fastened to the wall itself?
That I could understand, and expect. But that would take common sense. Instead nothing. This city has block walls and gates in homes in most every subdivision built in the last 40 years. You would think they would have preprinted pamphlets stating exactly what is required for both materials and dimensions, in order to remain within code, and keep construction consistent and uniform. But no. Instead they question dimensions that have already been permitted and established over 20 years ago. And that have absolutely nothing to do with the project at hand. Idiots all.
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To be fair all that stuff is in the codes, but still you would think they would ask what kind of block, split face, bond beam, slump, 4, 6, 8 and things like top cap or rounded.
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I feel for you guys.
The county I live in is one of the worst to deal with in south Ga for permits and building code red tape (nepotism abounds in the county inspector's & permit office and they are all idiots) but nothing compared to what you have to endure.
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Fortunately, I guess, in Cobb County it's all about increasing the Tax Digest. So if you want to improve your homestead and it's obvious it'll increase the valuation then they're pretty much all for it. Not that they don't have their procedures and codes, but they do try to move improvements along.
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AFAIK no one in my family has ever been in an HOA and only needed building permits to build whatever they wanted to. No one had any say in it when I got a new shed or tilled up part of my yard and planted a garden. I think I was supposed to get a building permit for my privacy fence, but the guys who installed it didn't ask if I had a permit, and I didn't ask them if I needed one. In Michigan we can dial 811 and someone will come out and mark all the underground electric and gas lines etc. with different colors for each type.
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USA is pretty much everywhere. I call them at least twice a week.
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I gutted my house, wired, plumbed, installed new doors and windows, replaced the boiler and put in a second bath all without pulling a permit!
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I gutted my house, wired, plumbed, installed new doors and windows, replaced the boiler and put in a second bath all without pulling a permit!
We pretty much only have to get a permit for dwelling improvements if it adds square footage.
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We pretty much only have to get a permit for dwelling improvements if it adds square footage.
I never asked!
:)
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I gutted my house, wired, plumbed, installed new doors and windows, replaced the boiler and put in a second bath all without pulling a permit!
Can't that cause problems if and when you sell?
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Can't that cause problems if and when you sell?
I sold it six years later with no issue. That was 1997...
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When I looked at wiring the unfinished lower level of my house in ND, I talked to the electrical inspector by phone - who, BTW, handled ALL of eastern ND except the 2 big cities. He told me I would need to submit a plan, have a middle and final inspection before I could close up the walls. When he found out I was going to do the work, he cut out the middle inspection, saving me a whopping $50 - and him a trip to my town. That's one of the many reasons I loved living in ND.
Here in KY we remodeled 2 bathrooms - complete gut jobs - and never needed to pull a permit even. One of the many reasons I love KY.
In IL, however, it is/was a completely different story. I was remodeling my kitchen and a couple of other rooms, and the permit alone - without changing the footprint of the house mind you, was nearly $1200 - in 1990!! I got an old dude, Charlie with a waxed mustache no less, as an electric inspector, who spent nearly 90 minutes going through the kitchen, family room, lavatory and back entry (all of these were cosmetic, the kitchen was a complete makeover to the studs). Problem was, I had a buddy do the wiring, a professional electrician who had worked at O'Hare airport among other places. Ol' Charlie spent that whole time trying to find something wrong. BTW, this was in Cook County, so conduit was mandatory.
When he was done, ol' Charlie gave me a yellow slip with 2 whole violations on it - a loose conduit nut and a conduit staple 1/2" too far away from the box. 90 minutes of taxpayer-paid time and that was it. Well, almost.
Ol' Charlie also announced I had to ADD 2 outlets, one in a deep corner over the counter - there was an outlet 3' away from where I needed to add one - and a second in the end panel of the island. Note that I had had contracted with an Amish firm in central IL to make my cabinets, and I had a beautifully worked end panel that I was now going to need to cut a hole into.
I asked ol' Charlie why the plans had been previously approved without noting the 2 outlets, and he growled - literally growled - "fix it", shoved the hand-modified plans and yellow slip into my chest, and walked out.
It was only later I discovered HE had approved the plans originally . . .
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Here's a stupid thing they do with permits here: If you are building a porch, you have two options for permit prices. You can pay the full price or they will write it up as a "storage shed w/o electrical" for half the cost. When I was in the hospital for over a month back 2003, my dad and some co-workers built a new front porch with an extended ramp so the EMT's could get me into the house once I was released (as well as back out to make doctor visits every two weeks). Well, when he paid for the permit, they wrote it up as a storage building to save some on the fee as mentioned above.
Fast forward about seven years and I look out one day and see a county inspector just walking around with a clipboard. This is not uncommon, as they do this randomly to see if folks have built stuff without permits and such, or if stuff was built as permitted. Noting the puzzled look on his face I inquired if he needed assistance and he replied that he was looking for a 12x12 storage building that should have been there since around October of 2003. He had, by then, walked up on the front porch where I was and I told him that he was standing on it. He looked at the permit papers and giggled and went AH-HA. It was listed in the 'notes' section and he missed it. We both agreed that it was kind of a stupid thing altogether.
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A friend of mine lives in a town where if you want to build a deck off your house, if it's more than 4 inches off the ground, you need a building permit, less than that you don't, they have all these huge decks in that town that are all built 2 inches off the ground. Also, no added property tax if lower than 4 inches.
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A friend of mine lives in a town where if you want to build a deck off your house, if it's more than 4 inches off the ground, you need a building permit, less than that you don't, they have all these huge decks in that town that are all built 2 inches off the ground. Also, no added property tax if lower than 4 inches.
What about if the deck isn't attached to the house, like if it's an inch away? I saw that done on TV or someplace.
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What about if the deck isn't attached to the house, like if it's an inch away? I saw that done on TV or someplace.
That changes the cost here.
If you build a deck/porch that is directly touching but not attached both the permit and taxes are at a different rate than if it is attached. If it is attached, even if it doesn't have a roof over it, it is considered an addition the same as adding a room and taxed as "dwelling" square footage. If not attached, it is taxed as a "add-on" at a lower rate.
For example, my back deck is around 400 square foot and it was taxed this year at an assessed "addition" valuation of $2500 on top of the valuation of the house. If it were attached to the sill of the house, it would add 400 square foot to the total of the house itself and be taxed as a whole.
Funny thing, living on a farm, I do not need a permit to add on to or improve any existing farm structure.
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Well, they started digging the footing for my wall today. Hopefully they'll have it all dug out and the rebar set by sometime tomorrow. Then he told me I have to call for an inspection before they can pour the concrete for the footing. That should take a day.
After that cures they start laying the blocks for the wall. He say's it all should take about a week and a half. I'm guessing 2 weeks including the stucco and paint. Plus hanging the gate. We'll see.
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They will have to let the stucco cure for at least two weeks before they can paint it. If they're doing a color coat same day
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He mentioned that. He said the stucco gives up moisture very slowly. This time of year it's over 100 daily with humidity around 4% to 7% in the mid afternoon. So it may take a little less time.
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It is not just that. It is very alkaline, it really needs to be bellow a ph of 11 for paint too stick. 8 is better
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This morning I had the rough framing inspection on a house I am building. The guy was super nice, thanked me for using the color coated nails(requirement in lots of areas, not here yet, but it makes life easier) was in and out in 45 mins.
Generally speaking, in smaller departments ( note I said departments not cites, as bend and the city of Sacramento have similar populations,) you tend too get people that k ow what they are doing and are generally nice. Funny how that works, like that for most government agencies.
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Stucco is something I don't see a lot of. I can think of one house I've seen in the city that's stuccoed, but I don't get out much.
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They finished the digging and rebar yesterday. I called for an inspection today. I have no idea what time. We'll see how that goes.
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The inspector green tagged the permit, and they poured the footing yesterday. So the work continues.
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The regulators need to be constrained. However, we keep electing politicians who are primarily lawyers on one hand or who are totally incompetent on the other hand...they should be reigning in these jerks based on public feedback. Totally out-of-hand this permitting process.
I like the rural areas where I can do what I want without "kissing the ring". The permitting process is generally sold as protection for individuals having work done or the public from errant projects....however it's mostly just a taxation and employment scheme for relatives and buds.
You did hit on the farm thing Peg. I have some land in Arkansas I want to put in an outdoor shower and put in a pad to put the RV on and I know getting electricity will lead to the electric company to tell the county to tax me. So...I'm going to build a "barn" and have the electricity run to it. After they leave I'll put in my 50 Amp service and sewer for the RV. Jerks....
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The wall is finished. He did a beautiful job. Monday he'll do the stucco. Then be back in a week or so to prime and paint it. Hanging the gate will be last. From this point on it's all, "work & wait".
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This morning I had the rough framing inspection on a house I am building. The guy was super nice, thanked me for using the color coated nails(requirement in lots of areas, not here yet, but it makes life easier) was in and out in 45 mins.
Tab, I gotta ask, I've heard of color-coated nails for siding, but what are the ones used for rough work? I did a quick search online but came up with nothing.
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The regulators need to be constrained. However, we keep electing politicians who are primarily lawyers on one hand or who are totally incompetent on the other hand...they should be reigning in these jerks based on public feedback. Totally out-of-hand this permitting process.
I like the rural areas where I can do what I want without "kissing the ring". The permitting process is generally sold as protection for individuals having work done or the public from errant projects....however it's mostly just a taxation and employment scheme for relatives and buds.
You did hit on the farm thing Peg. I have some land in Arkansas I want to put in an outdoor shower and put in a pad to put the RV on and I know getting electricity will lead to the electric company to tell the county to tax me. So...I'm going to build a "barn" and have the electricity run to it. After they leave I'll put in my 50 Amp service and sewer for the RV. Jerks....
My friend has one of those outdoor showers behind a shed he uses as a snowmobile garage. He bought 3 6'x8' panels of stockade fence and some posts, and stained everything. The back of the garage is the 4th wall. My job was holding things and helping to carry them, etc. After putting the panels in place he added a pair of big hinges and cut one panel to make a door and put a latch on it. The whole thing is lined with heavy duty tar paper. The floor is reused concrete pavers about 6"x12" on a bed of sand. I hauled the pavers over on the back of my ATV and handed them to him after they were cleaned off, and he placed them all. The whole enclosure is less than 8'x8', maybe 8'x7', because a tree was in the way. The shower runs off a 20# propane tank. A couple of years ago he and his new neighbor got electricity run back to their cabins, so we don't have to run a big generator for the well. This set up is 1,000 times better than the hanging water jugs we used before. He used to have a motor-home but got it towed to the junk yard last summer.
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The regulators need to be constrained. However, we keep electing politicians who are primarily lawyers on one hand or who are totally incompetent on the other hand...they should be reigning in these jerks based on public feedback. Totally out-of-hand this permitting process.
I like the rural areas where I can do what I want without "kissing the ring". The permitting process is generally sold as protection for individuals having work done or the public from errant projects....however it's mostly just a taxation and employment scheme for relatives and buds.
You did hit on the farm thing Peg. I have some land in Arkansas I want to put in an outdoor shower and put in a pad to put the RV on and I know getting electricity will lead to the electric company to tell the county to tax me. So...I'm going to build a "barn" and have the electricity run to it. After they leave I'll put in my 50 Amp service and sewer for the RV. Jerks....
the laws I really love for the ones that are designed to protect us from ourselves. Recently the law was changed to where you can not install smoke detectors with replaceable batteries of course the new ones are seven times more expensive than the old ones. I can totally understand the reason for this change but it still bugs the f*** out of me that I have to do things because they're idiots out there they don't know how to replace a 9-volt battery
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<snip> it still bugs the f*** out of me that I have to do things because they're idiots out there they don't know how to replace a 9-volt battery
The same people who think they need the government. Paid for and maintained by the US Government with your tax money to provide votes for slimeball politicians.
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Those are the same people warning labels are made for, such as do not use a hair dryer in the bathtub or shower. If they're dumb enough to do it, I say let them. Our species needs more culling of the herd, not less.
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Tab, I gotta ask, I've heard of color-coated nails for siding, but what are the ones used for rough work? I did a quick search online but came up with nothing.
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2002/02/01/tool-review-color-coded-pneumatic-nails
It is so you can tell what is there by a glance
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Those are the same people warning labels are made for, such as do not use a hair dryer in the bathtub or shower. If they're dumb enough to do it, I say let them. Our species needs more culling of the herd, not less.
Also the reason we have usage directions on shampoo.
I agree....let the nature of stupidity cull the herd......the only negative is that in some circumstances, I have seen the actions of stupid people take out someone who didn't deserve it and the idiot lived.
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The directions on my shampoo said Lather, Rinse, Repeat. So what did I do?
Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse.
If I wasn't out of shampoo I'd still be in the shower!
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The directions on my shampoo said Lather, Rinse, Repeat. So what did I do?
Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse, Lather, Rinse.
If I wasn't out of shampoo I'd still be in the shower!
:o :o :o :o :o
;D ;D
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You should have seen how clean it got my oily hair! 8)
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You should have seen how clean it got my oily hair! 8)
Squeaky clean, I expect.......maybe not as squeaky as washing with Dawn (yes, I had to thanks to an entire tube of warm moly grease plopping onto my head).
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It could be worse Peg. I once had to buy a big can of GOJO, no pumice, thank you very much, to wash gasoline off most of my body. I had to replace the filler hose thingie on my van after some idiot parked his motorcycle under the gas tank. I didn't think about how it was attached halfway between the top and bottom of my gas tank. I probably didn't dump more than 15 gallons on myself, but it wouldn't wash off with soap and water.
We've got some mighty fine drifting going on in this thread.
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I spent two years of high school working in a ten bay, full service Firestone garage. Hair past my shoulders dragging under car chassis’s all afternoon, covered with grease from head to foot...
Only one bathroom for four people (there were seven but they’d move out) and only a bathtub, no shower!
One bath to degrease, get out, scrub the grease ring from the tub, fill and take another bath! Palmolive would be the shampoo!
Four or five days a week I’d shower again at school or my gal wouldn’t get near me...
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Definitely great thread drifting here. ;D
(we do it so well, but at least it keeps the threads going. I hate stagnation). ;D ;D ;D
Like Tim, I had hair down to nearly my belt and worked around a lot of grease, oil and carbon in an industrial facility. Being in maintenance and engineering, I was in it every day. Bathing with Lava soap (great for exfoliation, ;) ) and Dawn was routine (but the worst was the moly mentioned above).
With hair that long and washing with Dawn, I had to stock up on conditioner.
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"Definitely great thread drifting here. ;D"
We have to do something while waiting for Bill's stucco to dry. I figure we have at least 2 more days.
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Back in the day....1966ish....I was stationed in Germany and the water in the barracks was extremely hard. Every soap would turn to scuzz upon contact with it..no lather could be had when washing your hands or in the shower....except with Zest. It was the only soap I found that would lather in that hard water.
Stuck with it through the years and it worked in the couple of places I lived with hard water...still use it today.
Second thing is about liquid soap vs. bar soap. Bar soap stays as a bar because of additives that also leave scuz on your shower door and walls and bathtub. That is why liquid shampoo was recommended..the scuz would be left on your hair too.
Now, using a liquid bath soap will reduce your shower/bathtub clean up by a large amount. It can also be used as a shampoo without the drawbacks....
I still use Zest, liquid now days.
So, how is that for major drift???
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I salute you Major Drift. My friends use liquid soap when we go camping. My problem with it is that it takes longer to rinse off, and my hands feel a bit slimy instead of clean. That's using cold water from a barrel. Maybe it works better with hot water, I don't know. I used to take my own bar of soap until the lid broke off of my plastic soap dish that was made for camping. I looked in some stores that had camping gear but couldn't find one, so now I just use whatever liquid soap is sitting out.
Coincidentally the last soap I bought was Zest. I was using Rite-Aid soap that looked sort of like Dove before that. I had to quit using deodorant soap because it made me itchy no matter how long I stayed in the shower to rinse off. And I spend a lot of time rinsing off.
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Well, to get back on track for just a minute. They finished my wall project yesterday. The guy came in the morning to paint, and the other guy came to hang the R.V gate later in the afternoon. Everything went well. It really looks nice, and gives me a lot more room to securely store things.
They poured the driveway concrete on March 10th. Job complete May 19th. Digging, permits, inspections, material deliveries, and so forth. But it's all been worth it. Now I'm done with projects. I'll probably give everything a good pressure washing next week sometime. We haven't had any measurable rain around here in months. So you can imagine things are getting pretty dusty.
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Just curious Bill but does the improvement add enough value to your property to pay for the project in that area of the country?
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Just curious Bill but does the improvement add enough value to your property to pay for the project in that area of the country?
I would say yes, in that it really gives the home much more parking and storage area, that would otherwise be pretty much useless. Especially because I only have a 2 car garage. Many people have 3 or more cars. Plus pop up campers, boats, etc. This gives secure, protected, discrete storage for all of the above.
That and the fact it didn't really cost that much. Around $2,800.00 for the additional concrete. And an another $3,300.00 for the block wall and the R.V. gate. So all total call it just north of $6K. Today that is practically nothing as far as a home improvement project. It also makes the house that much more sellable over a similar model that doesn't have it. A bit like a pool around here. Although we have no plans to move.
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Boy, from what you describe 6K sounds like a deal!
I have an old HS chum, PGA club pro who retired there. I know lawns are pretty much non existent so it sounds like you’ve done the property a solid!
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A few people have grass, but most don't. It takes a lot of water and maintenance to keep it looking good. So most use gravel, or else concrete. I don't have much in the way of shrubs. In the back I've got 3 Palms and an Evergreen, and that's it. It's all on automatic irrigation, so it's easy to take care of.
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It must be nice to have a project finished that fast.
I wouldn't want to live anywhere without a lawn. The only time I needed to water mine was after I tilled up and reseeded a couple of areas. I fertilized the whole lawn once in the last 27 years, saw no difference, and didn't waste time and money on it again. I don't even worry about weeds anymore, except I have to pop a thistle out of the ground every now and then, because I like to go barefoot when it's warm enough. The weeds stay green better than the grass, and it still looks good enough to me after I mow. None of my neighbors control their weeds anyway. No matter how many weeds I pulled, or burned with a torch, and no matter how much Roundup I sprayed, I still got weeds from the seeds blowing in from every direction. I can't get rid of the dandelions in my front yard because the place across the street is loaded with them. I used to pull all the chicory out too but my neighbors don't and I can't get rid of that either. It still looks better than my concrete driveway, and is a lot nicer to walk on barefoot.
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I mowed grass and shoveled snow for 38 years. I haven't now for the last 27. I don't miss it, and I'll never do either again. Time in the pool is better spent.
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I mowed grass and shoveled snow for 38 years. I haven't now for the last 27. I don't miss it, and I'll never do either again. Time in the pool is better spent.
I don't like swimming pools. As a kid I would sometimes swim in a public pool instead of a lake. They had so much chlorine in it that it didn't matter what color you were going in, you came out white. I'd much rather swim in a lake, which we have plenty of. Besides bordering on 4 of the 5 Great Lakes, Michigan has 64,980 inland lakes. 6,537 of them are 10 acres or more. The biggest one is Houghton Lake, home the Tip Up Town USA Winter Festival, at 20,044 acres. There are thousands of visitors from several states every year, and it has it's own temporary post office in the winter. There are only 14 lakes in my county, with the biggest being halfway in another county. They range from a 19 acre lake in a local park to a 1,975 acre reservoir. No place in Michigan is more than six miles from a lake. Google Maps says I could be at one less than 4 miles away in 10 minutes.
Plus there are hundreds of rivers in Michigan totaling approximately 51,438 miles, if I just want to be near the water. Right now I'm about a mile from a 78.3 mile long river that flows through 3 counties. And there are over 300 waterfalls in Michigan, with Tahquamenon Falls' Upper Falls being second only to Niagara Falls as the largest waterfall east of the Mississippi River. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's epic poem, The Song of Hiawatha mentions "the rushing Taquamenaw", where Hiawatha learned how to paddle a birchbark canoe. People still canoe the Tahquamenon River. I don't know of any swimming pools that inspired anyone to write a 22 part poem (actually 23 counting the introduction) that people still read 163 years later. :)
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As a kid I would sometimes swim in a public pool instead of a lake. They had so much chlorine in it that it didn't matter what color you were going in, you came out white.
Public pools are over chlorinated. They have to be because kids piss and crap in them. They would rather deal with over chlorination than be shut down due to inner ear infections.
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I've been in privately owned pools too and still prefer lakes and rivers. I guess living 0.5-0.9 miles away from 169 acres of water for 30 years (minus my time in the army) spoiled me. We need pics of that wall.