The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: billt on April 20, 2015, 06:57:54 PM
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This falls solidly into the WTF! category. Last week we bought a brand new 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee. The first new car I've purchased since 1991. (I'm still driving it). Going from a 1991 Ford F-150 to this 2015 Grand Cherokee is a bit like going from a Piper J-3 Cub to a F-135 Strike Fighter.
This thing has me dumbfounded. The first thing I noticed is the gas tank is "cap less". No gas cap. You just stick the nozzle in. The dealer delivered the car with a full tank, so I haven't tried to fill it up yet. I got the 5.7 HEMI V-8 with the 8-Speed transmission, so it supposedly uses mid grade, (89 Octane) gas. There is a seal around the locking fuel door, but that's it. I'm thinking of taking a cap of a spray paint can, or something similar, just to keep dust out of it.
I'm not seeing any advantage to this. In over 40+ years of driving I've never forgot to put a gas cap on. I get forgetful once and a while, but Christ I'm not that bad! Other than that the thing is really nice. White with beige leather interior. It's a 2WD with the towing package and heavy duty cooling.
I haven't gotten on it very hard yet, but the thing goes like a raped ape! You can put it into "Sport Mode" and use the paddle shifters like a Formula 1 car. It shifts instantly, and you can't even feel it. Unless you watch the tach, you don't even know it shifted. It's going to take me weeks to figure this thing out. We got 2 smart phones, and now I've got to figure out how to program the phones to the Bluetooth in the car. I also have to program the garage door opener to it. I figure by next Fall I'll be in good shape. I don't have a very long attention span, so I only can deal with it for short periods. So far it's getting around 21 MPG. Not too bad for it's first tankful. Unless it gets clobbered or stolen, this will probably be my last new car.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/Grand20Cherokee20120Week20Old20002_zpslg54etyt.jpg) (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/billt460/media/Grand20Cherokee20120Week20Old20002_zpslg54etyt.jpg.html)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/Grand20Cherokee20120Week20Old20007_zpsxfq03tdi.jpg) (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/billt460/media/Grand20Cherokee20120Week20Old20007_zpsxfq03tdi.jpg.html)
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Bill,
It would help if you posted a photo of the filler and door. I am picturing the system where the filler door has a seal on it. The filler door with its seals is the cap. A photo of the system would help, but that is what I am picturing based off past experience.
If it is the system I described, they are very effective and worked well.
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This is a photo of a 2015 Grand Cherokee identical to mine. I got it off one of the Jeep Forums. The guy posted that a cap off a can of, STP Son-Of-A-Gun Tire Shine fits around the outside perfectly. It has to be trimmed to get the door closed. I might try something like that, just to keep any dust or water that gets past the seal around the door.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/Grand%20Cherokee%20Capless%20Gas%20Tank_zpskydi7qpl.jpg) (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/billt460/media/Grand%20Cherokee%20Capless%20Gas%20Tank_zpskydi7qpl.jpg.html)
This was his fix. Looks pretty good. $50K for a new vehicle, and you've got to make your own Rube Goldberg gas cap! I just hope I don't have any grief when I fill this thing up.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/Capless%20Gas%20Cap_zpsqivfth2k.jpg) (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/billt460/media/Capless%20Gas%20Cap_zpsqivfth2k.jpg.html)
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Welcome to the 21st century! :)
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My Ford has a similar system.
I don't sweat it because it's a rubber or silicone flapper that seals against the nozzle opening. Any excess fuel when I remove the nozzle doesn't penetrate that seal, it drips into a weep hole below the nozzle opening.
It does look quite different from yours though...
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I see a small tab coming in from the 10 o'clock position that looks to be partially covering the filler nozzle opening.
Perhaps it is a "switch" or lever that activates a positive seal when the filler nozzle is removed?
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Yet another reason I like older cars.
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As long as the "check engine" light doesn't come on you should be OK. I never forget to put the cap on either but sometimes I don't get it tight enough and the idiot light comes on to let me know!
Richard
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Both Ford and Chrysler had fuel doors on muscle cars and sedans that sealed this way back in the 60's and 70's. They worked great. Deep down I feel that you are in a panic because you don't understand the system.
When I worked in the dealership we spent a lot of time fixing things that customers screwed up because "those damn engineers don't know what they are doing when they design these vehicles." Check with MOM (manufacturer's owner's manual), do what she says, and don't worry about it.
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As long as the "check engine" light doesn't come on you should be OK. I never forget to put the cap on either but sometimes I don't get it tight enough and the idiot light comes on to let me know!
Richard
On my truck you have to turn it until it clicks 3 times, and 4 or 5 clicks won't hurt it. I had a locking gas cap that I saved from my previous pickup and had to replace it because the it didn't seal tight enough. The dealer hooked it up to the computer and it said vacuum leak and it was the cap.
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The idea has been working pretty well on military aircraft for about 60 years now, should be safe enough for auto's.
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There are far more things to worry about on a Jeep anyway! :) :)
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There are far more things to worry about on a Jeep anyway! :) :)
If you really want an honest assessment about what cars you should stay away from, research extended warranty costs, based on purchase price of the new vehicle your trying to warranty. These are nothing more than long term health care plans for your car. Chrysler / Jeep has some of the most reasonable lifetime service warranties out there from ALL the warranty providers.
On many Mercedes and BMW models, they are not even offered at any price. That isn't because they're not likely to break down, and or are cheaper to fix when they do. Forget Motor Trend, J.D. Power, Consumer Reports, and all the rest. Insuring against maintenance and repair costs, along with the overall frequency of them, dictate the cost of all of these extended warranties. The same as if you smoke, and have a history of cancer in your family, you'll pay more for health care. Or live in New Orleans or the Outer Banks of N.C., and pay more for flood insurance.
It's no different with cars. It's nothing but insurance. And insurance is all based on odds. The extended warranties on these vehicles, (Chrysler / Jeep), aren't cheaper because they're less dependable, and break down more.
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Chill out Bill, it was a joke...
My 120K warranty was free from my dealer, incentive to buy the vehicle and yes, I can bring it to any Ford dealer nationwide for repairs. Hell, the thing had two recalls on it before I took delivery!
I've done plenty of research on many different fronts and I still migrate back to what's worked for me over the years.
It's the GM and Chrysler bailout that I cannot and will not swallow...they're both dead to me.
Enjoy your retirement, the Grand Cherokee is a great truck from everyone I've know to own one. Let's hope that bears true for you... It's big enough to mount your Barrett 50 on as well! ;)
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I think all of this boils down to basically how lucky you are. Nothing more. You can pay $85K and get a bad Mercedes. Or you can pay $25K and get a great Kia. It's all pretty much luck of the draw. I think overall your chances are much better today then they were 40 years ago. Back then I didn't know anyone who didn't have to take a new vehicle back 2 or 3 times to "get the bugs out".
I remember back in 1974 my mother bought a new Chevy Nova, and she had 4 radios put in it in less than a year. Who the hell ever replaces a radio? I had a 1979 Volkswagen Rabbit Diesel that Consumer Reports rated very badly. It was the best car I ever had, and delivered an honest 50 MPG for over 100,000 miles. Today I think cars are better than ever.
This new HEMI has 4 valve heads, 16 spark plugs, MDS, (Multiple Displacement System), that shuts down 4 cylinders under a light load. It delivers 21 MPG on mid range gas, and still puts out 360 HP @ 390 ft. pounds of torque. Back in the 60's that kind of performance came with 8 to 10 MPG on Sunoco 260 Premium, with new plugs every 10,000 miles.
As far as bailouts...... I put that in the same category as the S&W Clinton deal, and Bill Ruger's Hi-Cap magazine debacle. A long time ago. And today the same people aren't even in charge. I'm not going to make someone else do time for someone else's blunders.
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I got a new Fusion last October, and I encountered the same thing - went from an '02 F350 quad cab with the 7.3 diesel with an ordinary gas cap to the Fusion with electronic goodies up the wahzoo plus a capless gas tank. It was weird indeed.
So far in the past 6 months I have had no problems with anything including the gas filler.
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.............So far in the past 6 months I have had no problems with anything including the gas filler.
That gives me encouragement. I finally got the built in garage door opener in the car programmed to my 1997 Genie Door Opener. It took me 3 times, but the damn thing finally works. It's nice because it runs off the cars electrical system, and doesn't use a battery. Out here in the Summer, temperatures inside the car can easily get over 140F. That kills those little wafer batteries my opener takes in a single Summer. Now at least I don't have to buy any more batteries. The damn things were like $6 bucks each, and were a pain in the ass to change out.
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My Ford Focus, bought new in 2012, has this feature and I've had no issues. I live near Seattle, it rains all the time and I leave it parked outside. I like it. One less step at the gas pump.
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My Ford Focus, bought new in 2012, has this feature and I've had no issues. I live near Seattle, it rains all the time and I leave it parked outside. I like it. One less step at the gas pump.
More reassurance, thanks. If you're not getting water in your tank outside in Seattle, I'm not going to worry about getting water contamination in Phoenix sitting in a garage!
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All winter and going on a year. No issues...
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If you're not getting water in your tank outside in Seattle,
Ah, the big Seattle myth. Not only isn't the city even in the top 10 in rainfall, it's not even the top in number of days of rain.
You really want rainfall? Try Ketchikan, AK where they measure it in feet, not inches. Over 10 feet of the stuff a year. And they only have about 30 or so days without rain.
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Was that CatchItInACan?
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I was gassing up my truck today, and was talking to the attendant. He say's it's all but never ending the amount of people who come in with new vehicles and wind up getting the nozzle stuck in the filler necks of these cap less systems.
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I was gassing up my truck today, and was talking to the attendant. He say's it's all but never ending the amount of people who come in with new vehicles and wind up getting the nozzle stuck in the filler necks of these cap less systems.
And those are the same idiots who've probably driven away from the pump with the nozzle still in the OLD fill neck systems.
You can't make stupid anything but stupid. Sometimes knowledge is lost on the stupid....
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From what I've been reading and hearing, many of the older nozzle systems on these pumps are not receptive to these new cap less filler systems.
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From what I've been reading and hearing, many of the older nozzle systems on these pumps are not receptive to these new cap less filler systems.
I only buy from one or two different stations. There are also still a lot of attended stations here in the northeast as well. They're often the cheapest too...
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I only buy from one or two different stations.
I do much the same. That said, I don't know how these stations nozzles will work with my new vehicle. I'll find out when I gas up. If I don't encounter issues, I'll continue to go there. I'm not sure what type of nozzle to look for, or to avoid.
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They're designed for modern stations I'd expect.
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If it is a situation where there is a new style nozzle for new cars, and your chosen station has not upgraded, it is time to find a new station. It is no different than choosing a mechanic who stays current on the latest information, technology, and tools.
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I do much the same. That said, I don't know how these stations nozzles will work with my new vehicle. I'll find out when I gas up. If I don't encounter issues, I'll continue to go there. I'm not sure what type of nozzle to look for, or to avoid.
The capless systems have an anti-siphoning setup - don't know the details of how it works, but it is there.
I got a plastic, ribbed portable gas can nozzle stuck in my fusion, all I had to do was use a skewer shoved in the filler tube to release the flapper.
I'm guessing that the gas station nozzles that get stuck are the ones with springs on them, and that gets stuck in the filler opening ala my plastic one.
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My vehicle came with a special funnel that is housed in the well for the spare tire. It is to be used in case you run out of gas, and have to remotely refuel with a gas can. I'm assuming if you lose it, you're flat out screwed. As I said, I'm not seeing or understanding what any of this is "improving" on. They are simply creating problems where none existed before.
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My vehicle came with a special funnel that is housed in the well for the spare tire.
Same with my Ford...
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So they eliminated the gas cap and gave you a funnel. There aren't any less parts in this arrangement so what's the benefit? It might save you 2 seconds when you gas up but I think we can afford to spend that much time. We aren't driving race cars. If you do need to use the funnel it's going to take you longer to fill up than before.
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To many dumb people forgetting to put the cap back on.
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I believe it has to do with emissions and not simplifying the process. I don't have the time to research at the moment. If you recall earlier in the conversation, some were saying that they had to get their gas caps tight or the check engine light would come on. By eliminating "leaky" gas caps, they gain something on the emissions side. Somebody verify that for me, please.
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To many dumb people forgetting to put the cap back on.
Actually, the caps were part of the emission system of automobiles for the last twenty years. By eliminating the cap altogether, they've saved themselves millions.
Remember, certain emission systems warranty's are up to 80K miles since 1995.
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This is similar to the "disjoint" cause by 3 prong plugs in a 2 prong socket world.
Just use an adapter till all the 2 prongs have been replaced in 30 or so more years....if we're lucky.
I tend to "retro-fit" the 3 prongs plugs to the 2 prong sockets.
My new car has a cap, but strong instructions not to tighten it past the first "click". I tried, just to see, and it doesn't go past the first click with normal force. I guess those extra clicks were getting on someone's nerves or something.