The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: TAB on January 28, 2021, 09:48:39 PM
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I find it funny as hell that the small guy is screwing the wall street types. Yet apps like Robin hood are protecting them.
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I saw a headline blurb about what I think is a video game chain.
What's going on ?
We need a gopher emoji popping up.
Or BETTER, Bugs Bunny .
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Can someone explain what the hell is going on with all of this, "Gamestop" stuff??? I'm clueless. Thanks in advance.
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READ an article this AM.
Gamestop, a computer game company was going down the crapper, but gamers got together and by buying stocks they drove the price artificially high.
Some of the Hedge funds that manage your 401's and other retirement plans got hosed as they were going by actual market conditions instead of gamer whims .
The host server company, Robinhood, pulled the plug on them because it is a possibly illegal, probably illegal, market manipulation.
It basically amounts to "The street has spoken, and they are dumb asses pumping up a dying company" .
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Listen to Rush Limbaughs Thursday show, He explains it in great detail in the first hour or so.
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-the-rush-limbaugh-show-57927691/
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READ an article this AM.
Gamestop, a computer game company was going down the crapper, but gamers got together and by buying stocks they drove the price artificially high.
Some of the Hedge funds that manage your 401's and other retirement plans got hosed as they were going by actual market conditions instead of gamer whims .
The host server company, Robinhood, pulled the plug on them because it is a possibly illegal, probably illegal, market manipulation.
It basically amounts to "The street has spoken, and they are dumb asses pumping up a dying company" .
Nope.
Basicly what happened. Henge funds "shorted " 140% of available stock. ( basically you barrow stock from me hoping it goes down, sell it off, then buy it back at a lower price when you return it) a investment group on reddit(wall street bets) found about about it by searching public info. So they bought to make $$$$( I got in at $6/ share its now worth 200) others jumped in. Then people started to realize they could stick it too the hedge fund if they did not sell. The hedge funds got bailed out by citadel which is 40% of Robinhoods market. So a call was made( no proof, but we all know it happened) freezing the buying of gms, amc and a few other junk stocks.
Louis Rossman is a Mac repair guy in NYC. He runs a YouTube channel, he would fit in here perfectly, but he is not a gun guy. He has done lots of videos on this. He explains it in terms drtv will understand, including giving the middle finger to wallstreet
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Nope.
Basicly what happened. Henge funds "shorted " 140% of available stock. ( basically you barrow stock from me hoping it goes down, sell it off, then buy it back at a lower price when you return it) a investment group on reddit(wall street bets) found about about it by searching public info. So they bought to make $$$$( I got in at $6/ share its now worth 200) others jumped in. Then people started to realize they could stick it too the hedge fund if they did not sell. The hedge funds got bailed out by citadel which is 40% of Robinhoods market. So a call was made( no proof, but we all know it happened) freezing the buying of gms, amc and a few other junk stocks.
Louis Rossman is a Mac repair guy in NYC. He runs a YouTube channel, he would fit in here perfectly, but he is not a gun guy. He has done lots of videos on this. He explains it in terms drtv will understand, including giving the middle finger to wallstreet
Yep.
A bunch of regular folks turned the tables on the hedge fund guys, made a killing, and they hedgers got all butthurt over it and are crying foul. The short/long game in the market can burn you if you're not careful......which is why I straight trade. ;D ;D
Nothing really illegal happened, they're just pissed that they got their own tactics used against them. The hedge fund guys are usually the ones who take other peoples money and get rich and if the little guy gets hosed in the deal so be it.
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Yep.
A bunch of regular folks turned the tables on the hedge fund guys, made a killing, and they hedgers got all butthurt over it and are crying foul. The short/long game in the market can burn you if you're not careful......which is why I straight trade. ;D ;D
Nothing really illegal happened, they're just pissed that they got their own tactics used against them. The hedge fund guys are usually the ones who take other peoples money and get rich and if the little guy gets hosed in the deal so be it.
there are reports of people having thier gms sold with out thier permission. That is intact a felony. Also shutting down the buying of stock is against sec rules if it is for personal gain. When 40% of your money comes from some one that can lose billions. It would be a hard hillbto climb that you did not do it for the $. Sadly its only fines and sanctions.
Personally I could lose everything I have in gms and not even blink. I did it at 1st to make $$$, now I am happy that I am giving a big head ache to a wall street wolf. I should have bought into AMC as well, but I am not really into playing the stock game. I have a guy that does that for me. He was the one that suggested I buy the gms personally. He would not risk any of his clients money on it. He does not take crazy risks with portfolios.
I gave him 10k many years ago, he has increased that amount 10x in 12 years. He does not charge fees, just take a % of his take. Which is very high by comparison to other services, but it also means if he loses money you owe him nothing. The other services still get thier fee out of you.
You know its crazy times when aoc and Ted cruse agree on a subject
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Eventually though the piper will have to be paid.
None of this stock manipulation does a thing for the actual business. Game Stop is going out of business. At some point all their stock will be worthless. Somebody is going to have absorb that loss. Good for those who bought low and sold high, but somebody's going to take the hit and get stuck.
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Eventually though the piper will have to be paid.
None of this stock manipulation does a thing for the actual business. Game Stop is going out of business. At some point all their stock will be worthless. Somebody is going to have absorb that loss. Good for those who bought low and sold high, but somebody's going to take the hit and get stuck.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All of this same bull$h!t happened with the whole ".com" fiasco. It kept inflating until the entire bottom dropped out. None of it was driven by actual earnings or value. It was all speculation, with everyone trying to jump on the train before it left the station. Pretty soon it was too far from the platform, and people started falling on the tracks.
The guys who were lucky enough to time it right, and get out at the top, (like Mark Cuban) made a ton of money. But most of the rest of these so called, "Day Traders", ended up becoming the next night crew at Home Depot and Costco. The same deal will happen here. It's like a giant game of musical chairs. When the music stops, you better have a place to sit down.
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That's the way the stock market works....it's all a gamble and a matter of timing.
To a certain degree many of the stocks are cyclical in their ups and downs depending on the product or service represented. Good solid research into that particular stock's history is key.
For example, the company I used to work for typically takes a downward trend in mid to late fall and swings back up in early spring. Last April at the beginning of the Covid crap ramp up, it went from $30 per share to $7 per share....so I gambled and bought because the odds of a complete tank/closure is slim. When I sold in October it was $24 per share. I was calculating the usual drop in election years and missed making more because it did go on up to $30 by mid December instead of dropping like it normally does (I still don't regret selling because the risk wasn't worth it at that high of a rate of return).
Just like it did when o'bamalamadingdong was sworn in, the week after uncle sniffum took office it started down.....15% drop since last Friday.
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So, what would I invest in if I only had $1,000?
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Most people don't have a clue about how this stuff works.
Oh, your so happy the Hedge fund got fucked, whoopie.
Where do you think your IRA, 401, pension plan, and every other thing that pays you later for work now get their money ?
Gamestop you are so proud of fucked YOU.
But don't worry to much, if your manager is any good at all he got you in too.
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I got out of the company 401k before they went bankrupt and froze the accounts!
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Most people don't have a clue about how this stuff works.
Oh, your so happy the Hedge fund got fucked, whoopie.
Where do you think your IRA, 401, pension plan, and every other thing that pays you later for work now get their money ?
Gamestop you are so proud of fucked YOU.
But don't worry to much, if your manager is any good at all he got you in too.
if your pension fund or 401K is investing in a hedge fund short selling stocks, find another place to put your money they are doing you a real disservice. You only invest in hedge funds like that with money you can afford to lose
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if your pension fund or 401K is investing in a hedge fund short selling stocks, find another place to put your money they are doing you a real disservice. You only invest in hedge funds like that with money you can afford to lose
All I clearly understand is that $ is no different than steel or wood, it's a material to be worked.
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So, what would I invest in if I only had $1,000?
Can't tell you what to invest in, but here's some to look into that I've invested in.
Global Payments
Sonovus
Johnson and Johnson
Exxon
Verizon
Ford
International Paper
A little riskier but good returns, EPD, Enterprise Products Partnership
YMMV
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzojHqzm3TU
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Can't tell you what to invest in, but here's some to look into that I've invested in.
Global Payments
Sonovus
Johnson and Johnson
Exxon
Verizon
Ford
International Paper
A little riskier but good returns, EPD, Enterprise Products Partnership
YMMV
Depending on when you bought, you may have paid some of my wages. ;D
I worked a while at a place that made their biopsy cups .
Little SOB's. Work my butt off all night and 300 parts fit in the palm of my hand. ;D
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I find it funny as hell that the small guy is screwing the wall street types. Yet apps like Robin hood are protecting them.
Robinhood IS them, they are owned by a variety of multi-billion dollar investment firms.
Look, I dislike reddit immensely (and yes, I am on the platform, haven't used it in months), they are a major vector in the whole cancel culture/doxxing/swatting trends. HOWEVER, in this case, they seriously pwned the wall street guys, last I heard to the tune of $90 BILLION. We'll see if that number holds up, but it is entertaining to watch the hedge people saying "we hate regulation but this needs to be regulated!" They got beat at their own game and now they're whining to .gov to "fix" it (in every sense of the word).
Watch big media too, I have noticed shady digs at the redditers and support for big money.
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The stock market is supposed to represent wealth and value, much like our currency does. The value of the dollar rises and falls, much like the value of a share of stock. Depending on current economic conditions. Neither one benefits from deliberate manipulation. Manipulation, regardless of how it's done, or by whom, does not add value. Instead it decreases value of said stock when mass purchasing, (i.e. manipulation), drives up the price. No matter if it's Wall Street fat cats, or peons on the Internet who does the manipulation.
It's no different when Biden orders the Federal Reserve to print and distribute trillions of dollars, to hand out to the people like toilet paper. The overall result is the same. It decreases the value of the dollar. If done to the extreme, both will collapse into worthlessness. The only difference is any group can combine funds to manipulate a stock price. Where as only the government can legally print money. It's why counterfeiting carry's such steep sentences. It's dangerous for everyone when it happens..... Just like stock manipulation.
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I don't have a fund manager for my 401k (although the company keeps trying to get me to use one).
We have the option to manage it ourselves based on multiple options. Granted some of those options are based on preset funds that are managed by others, but I mainly stick to fixed fund investments and company stock because I know the 25 year track record. And yes, I know things can change, but over the last 25 years the company has been stable through most political climates. I figure if it crashes, the rest is crashing too.
The stock market is supposed to represent wealth and value, much like our currency does. The value of the dollar rises and falls, much like the value of a share of stock. Depending on current economic conditions. Neither one benefits from deliberate manipulation. Manipulation, regardless of how it's done, or by whom, does not add value. Instead it decreases value of said stock when mass purchasing, (i.e. manipulation), drives up the price. No matter if it's Wall Street fat cats, or peons on the Internet who does the manipulation.
It's no different when Biden orders the Federal Reserve to print and distribute trillions of dollars, to hand out to the people like toilet paper. The overall result is the same. It decreases the value of the dollar. If done to the extreme, both will collapse into worthlessness. The only difference is any group can combine funds to manipulate a stock price. Where as only the government can legally print money. It's why counterfeiting carry's such steep sentences. It's dangerous for everyone when it happens..... Just like stock manipulation.
Bill, I agree.
In general moral/ethical principle you are absolutely correct....and while what is happening with Gamestop etal is artificial manipulation as you are saying, it has always been going on. People have been manipulating the market for decades.
What is causing the big stink, and a bunch of sore asses, is that the ones who have always done it and got rich doing it, and burned others in the process got burned themselves by "common poor folks" using the same tactics.
If not illegal it might not be right from a moral perspective, but at the end of the day there is some small satisfaction from seeing a greedy SOB who burns others to get rich end up with a spoonful of his own medicine.
Maybe the good in all of it will be some type of reforms that prevents the hedgers from doing it in the future.
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Bill, I agree.
In general moral/ethical principle you are absolutely correct....and while what is happening with Gamestop etal is artificial manipulation as you are saying, it has always been going on. People have been manipulating the market for decades.
What is causing the big stink, and a bunch of sore asses, is that the ones who have always done it and got rich doing it, and burned others in the process got burned themselves by "common poor folks" using the same tactics.
If not illegal it might not be right from a moral perspective, but at the end of the day there is some small satisfaction from seeing a greedy SOB who burns others to get rich end up with a spoonful of his own medicine.
Maybe the good in all of it will be some type of reforms that prevents the hedgers from doing it in the future.
I was listening to Jordan Belfort, the real, "Wolf Of Wall Street". This guy wrote the book on insider trading and stock manipulation. He said the SEC would have a hard time making a case about the Game Stop peons from an illegal standpoint. Mostly because they didn't personally know each other, and were just working to achieve a common goal. It could be argued it was a case of more luck than brains.
It's not the same thing as he was doing. He worked within his company, and with people he knew, sat down with, and plotted these dirty dealings. That is highly illegal. It doesn't make it any more right. Morally or otherwise. And I get the part about sticking it to the big, cigar smoking assholes. I care as much about these guys getting hurt, as I would if Nancy Pelosi fell down a flight of stairs.
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Can someone explain what the hell is going on with all of this, "Gamestop" stuff??? I'm clueless. Thanks in advance.
I know that a lot has been said and explained about this since you posted, but here is my take anyway.
Gamestop, is highly over valued in the market. This is the appraisal of those who rate publicly traded companies. Those who manage portfolios saw this as a way to make some money over the coming weeks. They made "short sales" on Gamestop (GME) stock. Basically, they sold stock they didn't have based on a promise to purchase the stock on or before some future date. It is the same as playing the Options, except in Options you pay a price that limits your risk.
When a group learned of these short sales they went after it. Those who actually did this were inexperienced traders playing in the online option to trade stocks. Under someone's advice they started purchasing GME and drove the price up. This rapid rise resulted in margin issues that triggered losses for those who sold short.
When all is said and done there will be many MANY losers, and GME will drop in value.
Day 1 - Hedge Funds, some individuals, and some that hold portions of our 401K or IRA accounts, lost money.
Day 2 - The day traders made money through their manipulation of the market at the expense of the Hedge Funds (people are cheering this "robin hood" event)
Day 3- The inexperienced rubes start losing money, because the market starts correcting, and they don't understand the game they are planning
Day 42 - Gamestop drops in value far below where it was on Day 0 - Just like the Hedge Funds predicted it would
Day Whenever - Congress and their puppet Biden screw up the markets with knee jerk reaction to stop what the Hedge Funds did, even though it was the robin hood jerks that skewed and manipulated the markets.
One item mentioned by some on here is that the App Robinhood shut everyone down over fear it was illegal. They were correct in this. Many have gone to prison by manipulating the market like these traders did when they saw the Hedge Funds short selling.
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Gee I wish I had been paying attention and had known that 140% of GME was being shorted. That's obscene. I'm glad the hedge fund guys got it where it hurts. I think shorting is wrong to begin with because to do that they are able to "borrow" your shares without you knowing and because they manipulate the market in a way that dries up the funds a company may need to stay in business. Tab mentioned somewhere here he was 1000 G's in hock once upon a time. Just imagine if some helpful people came along to make a buck and drove a stake in his heart by drying up his monetary reserve source.....he would've been closed down instead of having built a really nice and profitable business for himself.
Shut it down for all or to the hedge fund guys, I say shut up.
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Gee I wish I had been paying attention and had known that 140% of GME was being shorted. That's obscene. I'm glad the hedge fund guy got it where it hurts. I think shorting is wrong to begin with because to do that they are able to "borrow" your shares without you knowing and because they manipulate the market in a way that dries up the funds a company may need to stay in business. Tab mentioned somewhere here he was 1000 G's in hock once upon a time. Just imagine if some helpful people came along to make a buck and drove a stake in his heart by drying up his monetary reserve source.....he would've been closed down instead of having built a really nice and profitable business for himself.
Shut it down for all or to the hedge fund guys, I say shut up.
I agree.
Straight-up trades across the board at current market value makes the field fair for everyone.
From a HS friend on FB:
They shut down vote counting in 5 states when it wasn’t going their way.
They shut down free speech and Parler when it wasn’t going their way.
They shut down markets when they don’t go their way.
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So, what would I invest in if I only had $1,000?
thats like asking what gun should I buy.
What are your goals with that $1000?
Are you looking for quick returns, long term, just some fun?
Do you have the time to watch the markets? Or is this just put it in and check on it every once in awhile.
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Gee I wish I had been paying attention and had known that 140% of GME was being shorted. That's obscene. I'm glad the hedge fund guys got it where it hurts. I think shorting is wrong to begin with because to do that they are able to "borrow" your shares without you knowing and because they manipulate the market in a way that dries up the funds a company may need to stay in business. Tab mentioned somewhere here he was 1000 G's in hock once upon a time. Just imagine if some helpful people came along to make a buck and drove a stake in his heart by drying up his monetary reserve source.....he would've been closed down instead of having built a really nice and profitable business for himself.
Shut it down for all or to the hedge fund guys, I say shut up.
I wish I had added 2 zeros to the number of shares I bought.
I have been 2 million in debt at one point, made it all back and then some
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Sold mine at 300.
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I wish I had added 2 zeros to the number of shares I bought.
I have been 2 million in debt at one point, made it all back and then some
Your next project should be giving lessons on THAT sh!t ! ;D
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Your next project should be giving lessons on THAT sh!t ! ;D
its real simple, work 16 hours every day. Go with out things you don't need to survive. I most people are not willing to do that
" opportunity is often mistaken for hard work and sacrifice "
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its real simple, work 16 hours every day. Go with out things you don't need to survive. I most people are not willing to do that
" opportunity is often mistaken for hard work and sacrifice "
Truth.
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Truth.
Over the years I have helped many friends get thier finances in order. I am always amazed at how people spend thier money.
One just buy cutting out her startbucks saved $500/ month. She also lost 10# .
Most people can cut $200-1000/ off thier monthly expenses and not really lose anything . It just takes a critical eye at what you are spending. Most people can not do that.
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As always, it's not what you earn. It's what you do with it after you earn it.
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Might be true enough if you are affluent. Otherwise it's all BS.
Luck, and connections mean a hell of a lot more than all the hard work in the world.
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Might be true enough if you are affluent. Otherwise it's all BS.
Luck, and connections mean a hell of a lot more than all the hard work in the world.
I grew up extremely poor. While the old saying, its not what you know but who. Is true. It does not mean if you are willing to bust your ass you can make it it.
I was very lucky, I had several very rich men take me under thier wing and showed me how to succeed. I found the more I played straight up, the better I did. The more games I played to make a buck the hard it became to make a living.
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Might be true enough if you are affluent. Otherwise it's all BS.
Luck, and connections mean a hell of a lot more than all the hard work in the world.
That is only true if you want it to be true. Connections do make a difference so that is something to cultivate. People like working with congenial people they share interests with and not with people who get on their nerves...it's always going to be that way. A lot of guys I worked with, for and for me knew the right way of doing things and by golly they were going to stick with it regardless of whether it made sense or not...that's pride and arrogance. It's like one dumb ass who burned up a $14,000 boat motor to help a $2,000 dollar a day barge get on location...he by golly knew the work had to get done and it was going to get done that day because he didn't want to fool with it tomorrow he had important things to do (that amounted to nothing) and it messed up the schedule...but waiting 12 hours brought the high tide in and only an additional $1,500 standby charge...instead of spending $1,500...which we did anyway, he added the price of the motor because he had to drag that barge through the mud. But on the other hand when told to do something stupid you know isn't going to work making it's sometimes prudent to realize that making changes is like pushing a string...it's time to jump jobs and not go down with the ship.
One of the things I learned later in life was that working hard at one place rarely gets you anywhere especially if someone else is a drinking buddy or "married to the boss's daughter". You have to change jobs when you see an opportunity and "jump off that diving board" into something you may not have done but are prepared to learn.
I jumped at around 40 to an upgraded job I did not have a experience in and put in 60 hours a week to keep from getting fired. It was touch and go for 6 months. After a couple of years I started getting the highest bonus for all the engineers in that company....because adding my previous experience to what I learned just made it easy to do a better job than the other guys. However, those upper management jobs went to someone else....it was easier to find someone for those jobs than to replace me. I jumped again...since then I've worked for 4 or 5 different companies making a heck of a lot more than I ever could have if I had stayed at one place. Very, very few managers have the integrity to help good employees improve their work path, they would rather have those good employees help them so they keep them in a job where the manager is benefited.
Luck. Maybe some people have that but very few have life changing luck. I had to study, look around and work to make my own "luck". I took time to search for opportunities wherever they were. Whenever I saw a job I wanted to interview for I started finding out what that job title required and studied what I didn't know to be prepared for the interview. Not a few minutes, but as many hours as it took or that I had available to prepare. Luck just isn't something to hang around waiting on in hopes that it drops on your head to get you out of whatever job it is that isn't paying the bills or improving one's career.
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<snip> I was very lucky, I had several very rich men take me under thier wing and showed me how to succeed. <snip>
Why is it they took you under their wing?
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Why is it they took you under their wing?
not sure. If I had to guess they saw something in me they liked
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I grew up extremely poor. While the old saying, its not what you know but who. Is true. It does not mean if you are willing to bust your ass you can make it it.
I was very lucky, I had several very rich men take me under thier wing and showed me how to succeed. I found the more I played straight up, the better I did. The more games I played to make a buck the hard it became to make a living.