The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: alfsauve on December 30, 2014, 06:25:22 PM
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I really, really, really, like my 12" AR. Didn't think I'd take a shining to an AR pistol, but I've become possessed. So on to the next build.
I have a purpose. No more depending on my puny little G17 when I'm upstairs. I've seen all the TV shows and read all the articles about .223 being a superb, in-home self-defense round. Time to step up the game.
10.5" one this time. Everything else pretty much tricked out like Pepe, My Little Mule, my bug out gun. Big difference will be sights as this is more for close quarters shooting. There's another gun show coming up Saturday, I've made my comparison shopping list. So I'm ready to see what I can get at a bargain. I've built 3 lowers from scratch but never an upper so this will be my first upper from scratch. Part of the fun. I don't have the funds to get everything this month, so I'll be concentrating on the upper. Here's my price comparison list.
Stoner 10.5 barrel $120
Midwest Industries for end $160
Flash Hider $10
Gas Block $35
Gas Tube $20
Yankee Hill Upper $100
Upper Parts $20
These are comparison prices, I'm not necessarily going to buy these actual makes/models. These prices are before shipping from MidwasUSA. If I can get some better prices and get the total upper price below $350 that would be great.
But while I wait, sights. Sort of begs for red dot reflex or laser and since this is home defense, not a SHTF-EOTWAWKI, it's al right to have some electronics. I like the Burris Fastfire on my .22lr pistols, but there is a small problem. They are controlled by ambient light and don't work in dim situations. So I'm open to suggestions. Not over the roof, price-wise. <$200? Don't want extra wires, switches and sensors. Must be sturdy. Other than elevation-windage, no fancy reticles or other things that can go wrong.
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Just hope if you ever have to use it in a self defense situation, you've got time to put ear plugs in!
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Alf... I built my 10.3" Mk18 from the ground up to be shoulder fired, later finding the KAK buffer tube to be ideal in giving me nose to charging handle even before the SigBrace... since the pistol is a real LMT Mk18 upper, it has a standard front sight base and M4 hand guards....at the distances I expected it to be used at, a full float tube was not needed... I first added an early model ACOG reflex sight I had laying around to the flat top, but found that I could index with the large aperture sight on a removable carry handle as quickly as I could index the dot... YMMV... by all means get a linear compensator like a LeVang or Troy
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Thanks, les (sent pm before I read this post), so that explains about the sights.
I'll look at those comps.
I've said before, I'm not sure lots of flashy-sparky-loudenboomin is bad thing when defending ones self in close quarters. You, the defender, knows what's coming. The aggressor, if not hit, might be more than a little intimidated by the flash and boom, and decide the wise course is to put distance between your firearm and himself. At worst case it might cause an aggressor to hesitate just one moment too long.
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the linear comps are vented forward, pushing the shock wave at the bad guy... without side slots, there is a tendency for the supersonic shock wave to re-ignite the volatile gases and give you a pretty good muzzle flash with the linear comps.... I shot one round with partially inserted ear plugs with both the standard KAC flash hider and the LeVang... noticeable drop in discomfort with the LeVang.. a Troy was similar
(http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/LesSnyder/002_zps8b44bd55.jpg) (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/LesSnyder/media/002_zps8b44bd55.jpg.html)
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I like the LaVang's description. The idea of pushing everything downrange certainly is appealing in a closed situation (and it's only $35).
The VLTOR looks interesting as well, in the modestly priced comps.
(http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/p_100003114_1.jpg)
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So half (maybe most) of the fun is researching and planing what to buy and how to configure (just kidding, most of the fun is in shooting the darn thing).
Sights. I'm beginning to think that just like in video equipment, when you put the word "pro" in front it triples the price, that with sights if you put the letters AR in front the price jumps skywards.
Fixed sights. Don't need pop up, flip up, or offset mount. Plain fixed sights but with a very large rear ghost ring or V notch. Large. This is a pistol after all.
Daniel Defense has a fixed set but again they're $135 and I'm really looking for a bigger, almost ghost ring, sized rear. UTG Leapers has a set for $50, but again the rear apperture is still only about 0.20
I like the XS V notch for this app, but... face it, the "Russell" in our family name, what little there is left in the family bloodline is cheap, er uh, frugal.
Maybe someone like NcStar will have a knockoff product.
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I have one something like this. It came with the tritium front sight post I bought. You may be able to find them cheaper. This is the first one I saw. http://ar-15store.com/pgroup_descrip/280/4583/?return=%3ftpl%3Dindex%26category_id%3D280%26
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[picture added 1/5/15]
The benchmark
Stoner 10.5 barrel $120
Midwest Industries for end $160
Flash Hider $10
Gas Block $35
Gas Tube $20
Yankee Hill Upper $100
Upper Parts $20
Went to the Eastman gun show today and ran into Ann and Bruce D'Angostino. Old friends. She was Sr. Mrs Georgia and I helped her with videos and such for her appearances. Anyway, they run a gun show business building out ARs and selling accessories.
Here's what I got.
Upper (made in USA) w/ dust cover and forward assist $109.
9" Free Float fore end (made in USA) with detachable rail pieces $129.
Gas block and tube $11.
So I'm slightly ahead of the game. Sadly no 10.5" barrels, which is a bummer because I can't begin to assemble the upper without it.
Patience. Patience.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-396bbjH/0/XL/IMG_0380-XL.jpg)
Our local brass recycling company, The Brass Exchange, had some primers and powder for sale which I bought. But I was good. Just my share, a pound of TiteGroup and 1,000 Federal small pistol primers. I know most of you aren't in a position to do business with them, but they're locally owned and operated small business that is a big supporter of the shooting sports, so if you do get the chance, please patronize them. http://thebrassexchange.com/ (http://thebrassexchange.com/)
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Ah, ha. Keep probing around enough. Keep you eyes open and viola.
See All sights. Anybody know much about them. This may be what I'm looking for for this SD Pistol.
https://seeallopensight.com/ (https://seeallopensight.com/)
(https://seeallopensight.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/seeall-AR-500x300.jpg)
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'm a fairly handy guy. The USAF trusted me to disassemble and reassemble weapons systems,
sometimes without the manual even. So how hard can it be to put together an AR upper from parts.
First you have to assemble the right parts and tools.
IMPORTANT TIP: Buy the Barrel First.
So much hinges around the barrel. Size of gas block, length of gas tube, size of compensator or flash hider, and more importantly the length of the fore end. No I didn't, in case you're wondering. And both my fore end and gas tube are too short. Actually, the gas tube IS too short, but the fore end works fine, I'd just prefer it be longer.
Tools are important as well. I got the barrel and fore end nut and my handy torque wrench out and said, "Huh? How am I going to hold the upper receiver while I apply 35ft-lbs to the barrel nut? Answer: MORE TOOLS. Fortunately, a Wheeler upper vise mount isn't but about $24.
Now I have everything I can finally tighten the barrel onto the receiver. Clamp the gas block in place and
finally mount the fore end. Ready to go except for the flash hider and sights. You'd think for something with so few parts this would have gone quicker.
Here's the parts: (Sorry, I cheated just a little and bought the upper with dust cover and FA.)
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-x3HfFGv/0/L/IMG_0400-L.jpg)
Assembled:
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-JFkf65W/0/XL/IMG_0403-XL.jpg)
Compared to the 12" Bug Out Pistol
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-cZXprLN/0/XL/IMG_0405-XL.jpg)
Still looking for the ideal "pistol" sights and muzzle device. At least the ideal ones without breaking the bank. Most CQB sights are rifle sights designed for close up targets. I want pistol sights. This is a pistol after all. As far as comps, Brownells has a really short one, but the blast goes to the side. If it were cheaper I'd get the LaVang comp. Pushes all the gas out forward, towards the target.
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I found a couple other linear comps but the cheapest one was 10 bucks more than the LeVang. Another one was listed in Euros. I believe it was something like $140 but I'm having trouble finding a price again. Maybe the $35 LeVang looks better now Alf?
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Maybe the $35 LeVang looks better now Alf?
Yeah, JF, that's actually not a bad price compared to the $100+ price for some of the others. If I could only find it locally. Miss Kitty says we're a little stretched credit-wise right now, but I have a few $ cash hidden away. May be April at the rate I'm going.
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if you want to add something like a BoMar/post front... think about having both on the same monoblock sight rail, and then attach the rail to the upper and forearm.... it will save you a lot of headaches... BTDT
(http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/LesSnyder/DSC00326.jpg) (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/LesSnyder/media/DSC00326.jpg.html)
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Found what I want on my AR Pistol-Pistol.
http://deadringerhunting.com/product/snake-eyes/ (http://deadringerhunting.com/product/snake-eyes/)
The lexan version. Nice big rear ring. Now to figure how to take one of these models and mount them on a picatinny rail.
(http://deadringerhunting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/snakeeyes_details.png)
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Ok...if I understand the write up.
In day or low light you have the 3 dots (tritium) plus the rear ring glow continuously using ambient light.
In "no light" you have the 3 tritium dots.
No batteries, no electronics...no backup needed...
I take it lexan is one of the model options?
Ahh..I see. no tritium for the lexan model. I've wondered if there was a situation where there was enough ambient light to identify your target but not light up ambient light sights.
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Same idea as a ghost ring sight.
The eye automatically tries to center the front sight in a circle .
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It's a just big ghost ring sight for pistols. That's all. The Lexan version is ~$80.
I don't know where Les got the rail he pictured. I see a similar model at MUSA and Brownells, but it doesn't have a dove tail for the front sight. There's got to some way (cheap and off the shelf) to adapt a dovetail to a picatinny rail. I can always take some cheap scope mounts to a machinist and have him cut them down and mill a dovetail.
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It's a just big ghost ring sight for pistols. That's all. The Lexan version is ~$80.
I don't know where Les got the rail he pictured. I see a similar model at MUSA and Brownells, but it doesn't have a dove tail for the front sight. There's got to some way (cheap and off the shelf) to adapt a dovetail to a picatinny rail. I can always take some cheap scope mounts to a machinist and have him cut them down and mill a dovetail.
Probably the route I'd go if I didn't have the equipment to do it myself.
I'd order an aluminum riser from somewhere like Amazon and see if a machinist could cut one of the pic slots into a dovetail.
If'n I had a mill, I'd do it for you.
Heck, being aluminum, if the dovetail is a 60 degree cut, you could do it with a three-sided file.
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Some parts showed up this weekend. Well, I went to the large Atlanta gun show and this is what a came away with, along with 8 pounds of TiteGroup for <$28/lb!
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-8Cn4mpC/0/L/IMG_0418-L.jpg)
Nothing exciting, but I got fair prices. $50 for the Anderson lower, $40 for the buffer tube assembly and $99 for the BCG. I don't have enough spare parts to put it together but I should have that fixed next week.
The muzzle brake is just a run of the mill A-2 ($10) until my LeVang Comps arrive. I ordered two, one for this pistol and one for my 10/22 (maybe I'll also try it on my 22/45)
Slowly but surely. Later this spring when I have more money, I may go to a 7.5 barrel to make this even shorter and handier.
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Looky. Looky.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-qCPKcD5/0/X2/IMG_0699-X2.jpg)
$26ea delivered. They're not DPMS, but I think they'll do the trick.
Here's how it looks on my 22/45.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-86pq5dZ/0/X2/IMG_0704-X2.jpg)
Now as some of you may have noticed. They say ".22lr Only" HERE HOLD MY BEER. WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN? ;D
Actually, I already did. Put 5 test rounds down range and nothing happened. I've taken it off and inspected it and it seemed fine. BOY is there a lot of muzzle flash. Much more than the 12" with the A2 brake. Sometime this week I'm going to do a comparison between the 2 length barrels and between the two brakes.
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Alf, I have to admit it. I sure as hell wish I had the patience to build something like that. Mine was all used up after over 4 decades as a machinist. Perhaps after I'm retired a while, some of it will come back to me. I have all I can do to change out a stock, or mount a scope without cussing. ;D
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Looky. Looky.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-qCPKcD5/0/X2/IMG_0699-X2.jpg)
$26ea delivered. They're not DPMS, but I think they'll do the trick.
Here's how it looks on my 22/45.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-86pq5dZ/0/X2/IMG_0704-X2.jpg)
Now as some of you may have noticed. They say ".22lr Only" HERE HOLD MY BEER. WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN? ;D
Actually, I already did. Put 5 test rounds down range and nothing happened. I've taken it off and inspected it and it seemed fine. BOY is there a lot of muzzle flash. Much more than the 12" with the A2 brake. Sometime this week I'm going to do a comparison between the 2 length barrels and between the two brakes.
Alf, isn't the 22/45 a .22 ? ???
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Alf, isn't the 22/45 a .22 ? ???
Took me a while to figure out what you were asking.
Yes, Tom, but I was testing these on an AR-15 that I'm building. The picture was just to show what they looked like on the 22/45. Sorry for the confusion. I don't know if Pike's is concerned these brakes won't hold up under stress of 5.56, or whether it's a design license issue with DPMS, or they just want to be known as a .22lr aftermarket supplier.
Wouldn't that be some small 5.56 package though if you could get it to work on a 22/45 frame? Oh Wait. FN did, except they have their own ammo... 5.7.
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;D
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An aluminum brake may not hold up on an AR in the long run. Keep us posted.
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It may also mean the diameter.
If you put it on a .270 don't be surprised if it gets torn off first shot. ;D
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An update on what's happening, but first let me address the Levang comp quesiton.
It may also mean the diameter.
If you put it on a .270 don't be surprised if it gets torn off first shot. ;D
Yeah, but the we're talking about a comp made for .22lr and putting it on a .223. I checked before I did this and there's plenty of clearance, so dimensional-wise it fits an 5.56. Put 40 more 5.56 rounds through it this weekend with no problem... other than it got hot. Oh and yes sir, wow, yousers, that Levang on a 10" barrel gives of a really great flash strobe effect. Fireworks. Light up the room. I'll take a video next time.
BUT NOW BACK TO OUR FEATURE SUBJECT:
Three weeks ago, having all the parts, I took this new 10" AR to the range. Problem: Bolt doesn't go back far enough to strip a new round from the magazine. It ejects the spent round and cocks the hammer, but fails to go back far enough by a fraction of an inch.
So two weeks ago I took my 12" AR to the range, along with the 10" and exchanged parts. The offending part was the buffer spring. Most on-line places don't give you any details other than "Pistol", "Cabine", or "Rifle". They don't give length, or turns, or even a measurement of force when compressed. SO. Since they are less than $5ea I order 4 different ones.
THIS WEEK: Starting to get impatient, my springs not having arrived, so "Have Pliers Will Travel". Went to the range and started snipping off part of the spring. YES, I know there are a lot of dynamics involved here, but it's the only "adjustment" I could affect. And I'm getting impatient, because due to work & personal issues, I won't be able to get to the range for another two weeks.
AN EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE: Sort of like loading up squibs just to see what they would do. I got close to the sweet spot with the spring. It would cycle 2 out of 3 times. But then I took off just a bit too much. I didn't damage the buffer tube, the buffer or the bolt, but, uh, let's say the operation took a swing in the other direction and the disconnecter didn't have the opportunity to, uh, disconnect.
So, I'm putting it away for the time being and will await the replacement springs. At the last small gun show, nobody was selling springs separate. What I really want is the stainless spring that came with the buffer tube on my 12" AR, but the retailer isn't selling springs separate.
Slowly but surely.
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;D
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"the disconnecter didn't have the opportunity to, uh, disconnect." Sounds exciting. ;D
P.S. Wikipedia lists the diameter of a .22LR bullet as 0.223" - 0.2255". I thought it was .224. Whatever it actually is a .223/5.56mm bullet has no problem fitting through a .22LR comp as Alf proved. They're the same diameter give or take a thousandth of an inch or so.
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I would think the biggest issue with a .22 LR brake on a .223 would be pressure. The .223 runs 55,000 to 60,000 PSI. I don't know what a .22 LR comes in at, but my guess is a hell of a lot lower than that. An Aluminum brake meant for a .22 LR might get real loose, real fast on a .223.
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I would think the biggest issue with a .22 LR brake on a .223 would be pressure. The .223 runs 55,000 to 60,000 PSI. I don't know what a .22 LR comes in at, but my guess is a hell of a lot lower than that. An Aluminum brake meant for a .22 LR might get real loose, real fast on a .223.
Might be, but so far ~60 rounds no problem, yet. ;) DPMS comps are backordered, even at the DPMS store, so this one is all I got for now. Another $25 experiment. Not going be shooting 3 gun or Rattle Battle with it, so long term round count will be fairly low.
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Consider the heat. The more powerful charge may well affect the aluminum much more than a .22 LR load. Could be "cutting" the brake?
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[Catching up with life after my vaca to Italia. ]
No secret here, I've had trouble getting this thing to run. Put in a new spring from Brownell's and it still wouldn't cycle all the way. Strange.
In the meantime, I visited a gun shop/range which my middle son haunts and was pleased to see they had reasonably price AR components. Bought a 7-1/2 inch barrel. Like that's going to cure my problem, ha. But it is what I wanted lengthwise. With the right muzzle brake it will fill the foreend. Here it is with the A2 muzzle break.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-HbR7JHR/0/X3/IMG_1301-X3.jpg)
And it ran pretty good for about 20 rounds. Then the bolt froze in the BCG. Dis-assembled (sorry Johnny 5), made safe and took it home. With a wooden dowel I was able to get the BCG out and stripped. Here's what I found.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-SVbwS83/0/X2/IMG_1316-X2.jpg)
Either a poor quality or poorly installed ring. THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD REALLY "RING OUT" a gun before relying on it. Re-assembled with the two remaining rings and I think that may have been the source of my problem all along. The BCG operates so much smoother and easier now. Have place an order for a dozen rings. I might have to check my bugout kit, spare parts box, there might be one in there. Before you caution me, I'll wait until I get three new rings in before I try to fire it.
SO: Also the LeVang comp is back in stock and I ordered it, too. This is the real DPMS one for an AR. Eveyone can rest easy that I'm going to blow out the .22lr ones. With the A2 comp I found it started to get a little warm out toward the end of the foreend. (Imagine that.) So this will direct all the blast towards the front.
More to come. I'll get this puppy running right eventually. Just got to find the right sights.
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Are you sure you are not having gas pressure issues ?
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I have a one-piece bolt ring in one of my ARs but I haven't shot it yet. It spirals around and looks like it will work better than 3 rings but I don't know. Has anyone else tried this? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/163933/dpms-bolt-gas-ring-mcfarland-1-piece-ar-15
P.S. I see that it's getting mixed reviews but most are positive.
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Jumbo... a good friend designed the bolt enhancement kit for the M4 which includes a 4 loop McFarland continuous ring...along with an ejector spring of specialized steel, and the 1/8" butyl"O" ring for the extractor... have had parts of it in my game gun since 1995....the kit was designed to decrease failure rate due to full auto fire from the M4 where the small diameter ejector spring might fail due to excessive heat... I shoot inexpensive Russian ammo for local matches, and the installation of the continuous ring caused reliability problems... I could shoot only about 75 rounds before the rifle would stop working... I had to replace it with a standard 3 ring system.... YMMV
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Thanks Les. I don't know when I'll ever get around to shooting it but if I have problems with it I'll switch back too.
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Are you sure you are not having gas pressure issues ?
Nope. Not sure, but I am sure I have a bad ring. Whether it was damaged before installation, poorly installed, damaged during installation or mangled inside the gun because of pressure issues, I don't know. I tend to think it has been damaged all along. It finally wedged itself between the bolt and BCG and jam the bolt altogether. I'll fix this and install the new comp and back to the range again.
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Nope. Not sure, but I am sure I have a bad ring. Whether it was damaged before installation, poorly installed, damaged during installation or mangled inside the gun because of pressure issues, I don't know. I tend to think it has been damaged all along. It finally wedged itself between the bolt and BCG and jam the bolt altogether. I'll fix this and install the new comp and back to the range again.
The sacrifices you have to make in the name of research. ;D
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I'm trying to kick the habit. I'm a pretty steady once a week, but the voices in my head are saying, "Go twice a week. Go twice a week. What can it hurt?" Oh the sacrifices I have to make.
Hey brother, can you spare a buck fifty for another target?
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Listen to the voices ! ;D
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Ah. Looked what I got in now. Spare gas rings and a steel Levang comp. (Speaking of marketing, why doesn't DPMS stamp their name on this comp? No markings whatsoever.)
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-mKHTSLP/0/XL/IMG_20150430_165752689-XL.jpg)
Ran it today. 60 rounds no hickups. Whewwwww. I put a Surefire red dot on top just so I had something other than the rail to aim with. The comp directs all the blast out front so the fore end stays cool.
Now I'm down to the sights. Still haven't found what I want, but will keep looking. When I get the sights I'll take a final picture.
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Cool, Alf....that's the one I want.
One thing I like is the fact that it doesn't have to be 'indexed' to the barrel.
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The DPMS Levang comp is back in stock at the stores.
Here's a hasty picture of the pistol. The Levang is almost out flush with the end of the fore end. You can grip the fore end almost out to the end without worrying about muzzle blast. yes it is loud and creates a bright flash, but for an indoor pistol I look upon it as a flash-bang assault on the attacker. With this gun, the saying is, what doesn't kill you will make you blind and deaf.
I put a little LocTite on it and hand tightened it. It would be nice if there were flats, but I have pretty strong hands.
Sorry about the color. I'll correct that later.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-JbrJLMC/0/L/IMG_20150502_134422689-L.jpg)
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I think I'd be considering a LASER sight for that one.
It is small enough to be very maneuverable but a tad on the big side to be readily brought to eye level in all situations.
LASER will put your front sight on the target without limiting your field of view. Might be pretty handy for out of position shots in close quarters.
And a LASER does not mean you can't have iron sights too.
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As much as I'm not thrilled with depending on electronics, I've been leaning towards a laser for this one. As I tested it yesterday with the red dot, it was awkward to bring the rig up to eye level. Of course, inside the house, I doubt if I would be using aimed fire.
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As much as I'm not thrilled with depending on electronics, I've been leaning towards a laser for this one. As I tested it yesterday with the red dot, it was awkward to bring the rig up to eye level. Of course, inside the house, I doubt if I would be using aimed fire.
Exactly, but even with a LASER you could have iron backup. AND you would have very good aimed fire without bringing the gun to anywhere except in alignment with the target...you would also be able to see were you were gonna hit.
The LASER is acting as an extension of the muzzle. It would be like putting the muzzle of a LONG barrel against the target.
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As much as I'm not thrilled with depending on electronics, I've been leaning towards a laser for this one. As I tested it yesterday with the red dot, it was awkward to bring the rig up to eye level. Of course, inside the house, I doubt if I would be using aimed fire.
[/b][/color]
You BETTER be using aimed fire, you take out the china cabinet and Mrs. Alf will make you wish the burglar got you ! ;D
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Slow but almost there. Tested functioning,again with another couple of dozen rounds, video to follow once I get it edited.
Bit the bullet (boo, hiss, poor pun) and bought a Streamlight TLR-4 light/laser combo. I have a TLR-2, light only on my shotgun. Paid a bit more, $140, than I could have gotten it at Cabela's but it was instant gratification and 30 miles less driving. I like Streamlight products. I don't like remote feely-touchy switches, so this is perfect for me. Lasers take practice. If they're not on target, if you can't see them on target, you tend to waste time trying to spot the dot. And for a close quarters situation, you need to be firing, not trying to find the red dot.
Here's the target at 15 yards.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-MxSpZLb/0/XL/AR%20Pistol%20Target-XL.jpg)
Fun, fun.
Have ordered a high viability, fiber optic sight, meant for shotguns, but I think I can adapt it to a picatinny rail. Only $25, so we'll see. Worst case is I put it on my shotgun.
BUT THE WHOLE PURPOSE of this project was for home defense. So I moved in that direction today, by mounting it inside my clothes closet. Up out of the way, but convenient. Not obvious to anyone perusing the room, even just glancing in my closet.
It's hung with one of the hangers a local entrepreneur is selling. Works well in this case.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-hSHSKGS/0/XL/IMG_1443-XL.jpg)
Here's the link for the hanger. Called Vertical Gun Rack, it works quite well horizontally:
http://www.verticalgunracks.com/index.html (http://www.verticalgunracks.com/index.html)
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I may get a couple of the horizontal display racks they sell. They look perfect for non gun weapons too. http://www.verticalgunracks.com/store/p5/Display_Rack.html
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So the Levang comp. How much flash? How much noise? I recorded some video this week. You be the judge. Remember, I'm thinking in a close quarters encounter, flash-and-bang are not a bad thing. If the perp isn't sure he's hit, at least his ears and eyes will be telling him it isn't wise to get any closer.
The video: The first two sequences are testing with only two rounds. Then an 9 round sequence. The camera is only recording one picture every 1/30 of a second, so it doesn't always correspond to the exact moment of maximum flash. (Okay 29.97fps for you purists.)
Listen to the guys on the other bay, other side of the room, chattering. They stop after my first shot.
The Slo-mo segment is only recorded at 30 frames per second as well then slowed down. This isn't Shooting Gallery with their 12,000 fps camera, so again, some flashes don't get captured, but I thought you'd like it.
Not the biggest or brightest, but an example of the muzzle flash caught in a single frame.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-kWZ9p89/0/Th/AR%20still%20picture-Th.jpg)
[UPDATED 5/14 ~5pm]
Here's a better picture at the moment of maximum muzzle flash.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-jvsBZHX/0/X3/FreezeFrames0-X3.png)
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Seems like the laser is slowing down your follow up shots.
Looks like you could get 2nd shot off lots faster with iron sights.
It's something I've noticed at the Range, people lose a LOT time waiting for the dot to settle down.
Of course it's about the most unstable platform possible with more than one hand so the dot will never stabalize.
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Your AR pistol sounds a lot like my Bushmaster Carbon 15 Model 21-S. Big fireball with lots of noise to go with it. If you miss they'll run away deaf and scared! ;D
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If you miss they'll run away deaf and scared! ;D
++++
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.....people lose a LOT time waiting for the dot to settle down.
Or just finding the dot. Especially when there is large difference in the distance of the target and the backstop.
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It is often compared to a video game, but it isn't, it is much more difficult.
I think I'd prefer iron sights.
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I think I'd prefer iron sights.
Chuck never needed any sights.
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;D
He also didn't hit anything.
;D
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In using the LASER, I ALWAYS use the same hold and sight acquisition I do with iron sights (when possible), I just don't focus on the sights...the dot is always close to where I am pointing. If you have time and are in a position to bring the weapon up for aimed iron sight fire, the laser will be in the same place and quicker than (for my eyes) trying to find the sights. And you don't have to wait for the dot to settle down. Not bulls eye shooting here. The iron sight picture doesn't settle down any quicker..you just can't see it wobble and accept "enter of mass" as your target.
If you cannot bring the weapon to "aimed fire" position, you still have a chance of spotting where the dot is, no chance if you are using any other sighting system...iron or red dot.
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Repeating this from another thread. Don't know why. Maybe cause I posted it over there and thought it might fit here better.
So we took "Miss Julia the House Cleaner" to the range with my three sons on Sunday for Father's day. I packed a minimum of 20 rds per person (4 of us) per gun with lots of extra .223s. Not only was it great father/sons time, but I got to watch my guns perform.
The new bolt performed flawlessly. No hick-ups as I knew it should. !!!
I also got to observe the different muzzle blasts of the different guns while my sons were shooting them. Most all our ARs had plain AR2 comps and you know they worked fine, with minimal flash. No need for those fancy, expensive attachments. My varmint AR with it's very bull barrel and no comp gave off a fair amount of flash, but Miss Julia... WOW.
For those who don't know Miss Julia, I now call her, is a 7-1/2" AR pistol with a LeVang comp. This comp is like an amplifier for barrels with no comp. Actually makes the noise and flash worse. Especially if you're down range. I waited until the lanes on each side of us were free before breaking her out. And after the first shot, everybody still on the line had taken a step back to see what we were shooting.
This gun with this comp fulfills my design for a "house gun" with lots of shock and awe. Those not directly hit with a bullet will have very serious second thoughts about advancing any closer.
So now only some hard, non-electronic sights left to mount. I've got this nice, big, fiber optic ghost ring rear and FO front, but no way to mount them... yet.
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When I had a .223 barrel 12" long including the comp on my Contender it was so loud a lady cop at the range dropped her gun. I tried not to laugh but don't remember if I succeeded. I imagine the 7.5" barrel is even worse. If I ever I get an AR pistol I'll probably get about a 10" barrel. That will give the powder a little extra time to burn.
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I shot my 10.3" SBR at a carbine match (in a closed covered shooting area) a couple of weeks ago...it has a LeVang, and if you are behind the gun did not notice any objectionable muzzle flash or noise with just custom silicone ear plugs... very easy to handle in tight area... I was the only one there without a dot or optics... have since stuck the 1.5x16 ACOG on it for the next match.... for home defense, a set of electronic muffs would be with it
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Les brings up a practical issue of the noise.
You might want to think about the effect on others who belong in the house.
A large percentage of police disability claims are based on firearms related hearing loss.
It might be kinder to your wife and guests to replace the comp with a suppressor.
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...it has a LeVang, and if you are behind the gun did not notice any objectionable muzzle flash..
Must be a brightly lit range, cause this is what mine looks like. Or maybe you have a MUCH broader definition of "objectionable." ;)
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-ZHqM8kJ/0/X3/FreezeFrames2-X3.png)
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I feel bad, Alf. I just finished a complete from parts build-up of a 6.8Rem SPC rifle, and didn't have any issues like you did. I must be doing something wrong! ;)
Well, I did have one issue - the Stag 6.8 barrel came threaded at 1/2x36, and the VG6 comp is threaded 5/8x24. So I had to search for a solution, found an adapter that converted one to 'tuther.
I should probably post a picture or 2 . . . .
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Yes, you should !! ;D
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I feel bad, Alf. I just finished a complete from parts build-up of a 6.8Rem SPC rifle, and didn't have any issues like you did. I must be doing something wrong! ;)
This is my fourth build and the first I had problems. Part of the problem was not going with name brand parts. Learned my lesson.
I should probably post a picture or 2 . . . .
A post isn't real until it's accompanied with graphic evidence. Or a copy of the arrest warrant.
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Alf... I should have qualified my statement... I shoot steel cased Wolf for local matches, and the range was illuminated with ordinary fluorescent fixtures... I get a significantly brighter flash with M855... with the Wolf I was able to track targets without a problem using fixed sights
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A post isn't real until it's accompanied with graphic evidence. Or a copy of the arrest warrant.
Arrest warrant? I ain't M'ette skinny dipping in the Las Vegas fountain! ::) ;D
Here are a couple of snaps of the build (including the obligatory (covered) toe shot). And here's what I did, front to back:
VG6 Gamma 6.8 comp (the photos show the original Stag MD
Samson 12.4" keymod handguard
Magpul MBUS sights front and rear
Magpul AFG forward grip
Stag upper w/original barrel and bolt, plus ejection port cover; I have since gotten one that says "6.8 Rem" on the inside I will add
PSA stripped lower
CMC flat-faced trigger
KNS non-rotating trigger pins
CMMG lower parts kit
Magpul MIAD grip
Vltor BCM Mod 4 charging handle
Spike's Tactical 6-position buffer tube assy
Vltor eMod stock
Upper, lower and handguard were all Cerakoted by a local guy here in KY. All of the other FDE stuff I bought that way. I like the black highlights for the various fiddly bits. I saw a completely FDE rifle (receivers, barrel, MD, buffer tube, etc.) at the gunshow last weekend and thought mine looked better.
The target shows the first 5 rounds as I sighted it in at 25 yards with "iron" (i.e., Magpul plastic) sights and my antique eyes.
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Looks great.
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No project is ever finished, but until I find some other do-dad to go on this one I think this is done.
Short AR pistol, with Laser, Light and non-electronic rapid acquisition sight. I sold some excess gear and decided to try the See-All. It's growing on me. it's different and take some getting use to. I wanted non-electronic, and I wanted to be able to use it in a pistol format, long eye-relief or a rifle format, cheek to buffer tube. I had to raise it up and it looks odd, but it serves the purpose.
So I pronounce this project, done.
OVER ALL VIEW
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-K4MvQJw/0/XL/IMG_2068-XL.jpg)
FROM THE FRONT
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-dPsNnBx/0/XL/IMG_2071-XL.jpg)
BUSINESS END
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-BzWK3jx/0/XL/IMG_2072-XL.jpg)
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Alf,
What make bolt carrier group is that?
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AIM Surplus Nitride BCG. Not the most expensive. They, of course, buy them from someone else, so who knows who actually makes them.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XAIMBCGN3BDG&name=AIM+AR%2fM16+.223%2f5.56+Nitride+9310+MPI+BDG+Bolt+Carrier+Group&groupid=723 (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XAIMBCGN3BDG&name=AIM+AR%2fM16+.223%2f5.56+Nitride+9310+MPI+BDG+Bolt+Carrier+Group&groupid=723)