The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: bjtraz on April 21, 2010, 10:55:18 PM
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OK, I have an appointment for a inspection/interview for my FFL on Monday. I need to know what to expect. What are they going to look for? Besides a safe, what else would I need? I'm applying for my occupancy tomorrow, that should be just a formality. Not overly concerned, just curious.
Brian
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OK, I have an appointment for a inspection/interview for my FFL on Monday. I need to know what to expect. What are they going to look for? Besides a safe, what else would I need? I'm applying for my occupancy tomorrow, that should be just a formality. Not overly concerned, just curious.
Brian
Ever been to a proctologist? ;D
Seriously though, I don't know...but want to wish you well and good luck with the process.
Keep us updated with how it goes.
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Good luck, and like Peg said, keep us posted.
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Yea I'd like to know what goes down as well! And good luck!!
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I know nothing of this, but one thing I have heard consistently on other forums is that ATF wants to know that you are planning a comercial operation, not just getting cheap guns for you and your buddies, since they want to limit FFLs to active dealers. Specifically folks report getting trouble if they ask for too little on transfer fees. (eg $15 is bad $40 is good ::)). This applies to a kitchen table dealer more than someone one is wanting a shop or planning on dealing online or at shows. I think the idea is they MAY want to see a business plan of some sort. I do not know whether its true or not. I'm just throwing it out there. Use your own judgement and research to see whether its scuttlebut or real. Try PMing the FFL holders on the board.
Good Luck
FQ13
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What FQ said reminds me of what one friend said he did during the visit, and the set up another friend has for his FFL that he has had for longer than I've been around:
1. Make it look as much like a business as possible - counter to do business on, phone (or phone area if you plan on using a cell) shelves, cabinets and safe all arranged so it looks like you are set up to control the sales and display area;
2. Make the "business" area a separate area - one guy uses his home office, and the other uses his back entry to the home, but beyond being a walk through area it shows no evidence of being a personal living area;
3. Do not have the business area in the same as your personal gun and supply area. Keep personal firearms, ammo, accessories and supplies in their area, and the business in its (both friends keep inventories of their personal items in a file in their area to prove what is personal).
4. Talk like this is a business. What is your business plan? Where will you purchase and what margin do you plan? What will you charge for private transfers? and what is your record keeping system (ffl and business)?
The friend that has had his for many many years said he tries to keep his as if it were in a storefront downtown, and pretends it is not in his home. That way it is easier to remember that it is a business, and not a personal toy box.
Good Luck!
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I read you have to have a Youth Firearms Safety Act Posted, or any other State, Fed requirements available, preferably framed.
Your "business" area, needs to be secured against all other access and alarmed. You'll need decent safes, like ones made by Liberty, to secure your inventory. Local zoning must allow you to do this and you'll need to prove it to ATF at your initial compliance inspection. You'll probably need a phone dedicated to this business and you'll be required to post hours and a business name. If you're going to do the internet transfer thing you'll need to get hooked up with Davidson's and places like GunBroker and GunsAmerica with your FFL. You'll need to actually be available too. I've called several FFLs in my area to do transfers and I get attitude so they get no business. I don't mind paying $20 - $40 per transfer to someone that's polite, professional and available.
Check the ATF website also.
Just remember they are allowed to come back at anytime WITHOUT a warrent. So be nice. ;D
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Any firearm not for sale, has to be marked not for sale. I just labeled my personal safes on the outside, " Contents not for sale "
and kept the firearms for sale in a different location. Much of the aforementioned is true, be professional, but tight lipped as possible, listen to their questions carefully, before answering. Make sure your paper work is perfect, that's the easiest to peg you on, your bound book and your 4473's. This could be too late, and I hope not, the instruction sheet attached to the 4473, has to remain attached, not thrown away, a lot of FFL's have been tagged with that one, although the instruction sheet has no info.
Never argue with a bureaucrat, call your lawyer before doing that.
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Well the interview was today, and went pretty well, I believe. I changed calling it an interview because that was all it was. There was no inspection at all. We sat at the dining room table the entire time. She was asking a few questions, mainly about how I was going to run the business, and how many guns I expected to sell/transfer.
I explained that it was going to be a true "kitchen table" dealership, with most sales generated on the internet or as special order items. I would have little, if any stock on hand, and that seemed OK w/her. She was more interested in making sure that I waas informed and understood the basics of filling out form 4473. What happens and my responsibiliies as far as filling out my part and calling NICS, and what to do in case of a deny or delay.
She asked about my safes, but didn't attempt to inspect them. Only noted number on forms. She did mention marking my personal guns, but only so that the inspector could readily identify them, so they would not be counted. She suggested tying a small piece of pink yarn to the personal guns.
Like I said, her main goal was more informative than inquisitive. She appeared more concerned that my local jurisdiction was going to allow this than that the ATF would. At the end, I asked her if anything that was said stood out as something that would fail me, and said no. But she did say that it would be out of her hands when she sent it to the supervisor. I didn't really know how to take that.
She said that the license would be issued 30-45 days after they make their decision. But said nothing about an appeal process. I'm taking that as a good sign. ;D
Brian
P.S. I almost forgot, she gave me a bunch of posters and such, but said they were not required to be posted in a "home". Only a place of business. I need to hand out the different brochures, but not post the paraphanalia (sp?). B.
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Well the interview was today, and went pretty well, I believe. I changed calling it an interview because that was all it was. There was no inspection at all. We sat at the dining room table the entire time. She was asking a few questions, mainly about how I was going to run the business, and how many guns I expected to sell/transfer.
I explained that it was going to be a true "kitchen table" dealership, with most sales generated on the internet or as special order items. I would have little, if any stock on hand, and that seemed OK w/her. She was more interested in making sure that I waas informed and understood the basics of filling out form 4473. What happens and my responsibiliies as far as filling out my part and calling NICS, and what to do in case of a deny or delay.
She asked about my safes, but didn't attempt to inspect them. Only noted number on forms. She did mention marking my personal guns, but only so that the inspector could readily identify them, so they would not be counted. She suggested tying a small piece of pink yarn to the personal guns.
Like I said, her main goal was more informative than inquisitive. She appeared more concerned that my local jurisdiction was going to allow this than that the ATF would. At the end, I asked her if anything that was said stood out as something that would fail me, and said no. But she did say that it would be out of her hands when she sent it to the supervisor. I didn't really know how to take that.
She said that the license would be issued 30-45 days after they make their decision. But said nothing about an appeal process. I'm taking that as a good sign. ;D
Brian
P.S. I almost forgot, she gave me a bunch of posters and such, but said they were not required to be posted in a "home". Only a place of business. I need to hand out the different brochures, but not post the paraphanalia (sp?). B.
Good for you and congrats! Of course there is the paranoid side of me that comes out when dealing with LEOs of any flavor (sorry Bulldog et. al., but Libertarian here). I would take her "suggestion" of a bit of pink yarn and the "optional" hanging of posters to heart. Tie the yarn and frame and hang the posters in the freaking living room or kitchen. Damn, they look nice. :-\ The point is she gave you, depending on your view of law enforcement, either two good pieces of advice, or two things to trip you up on on if you don't follow through. Me, I'd follow through, so the followup inspectors can say you've jumped through all the hoops.
FQ13 Who may be a bit paranoid, but I just have a fundamental distrust of anyone wearing a badge (translation a license to kill or imprison), carrying a gun and saying "I'm from the governmet and I'm here to help you". I know its probably wrong, but its just how I'm wired.
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Glad to see that the first stage went relatively smooth, congrats.
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+1
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but I just have a fundamental distrust of anyone wearing a badge (translation a license to kill or imprison), carrying a gun and saying "I'm from the governmet and I'm here to help you".
Holy Smokes FQ quoting Reagan... :o
Either way, both are correct. Do not let anything fall behind, get to it next week type thing,....
The prelim was nice for a reason,,,,the next "visit" may not be....Keep your "i" 's dotted, and "t" 's crossed, make it routine, and you will be OK.
Wishing you the best.
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There was a kitchen table dealer I bought from a few times. He had some kind of part number listed as the serial number on his paperwork, for a revolver I think it was. Instead of raking him over the coals they just had him correct his mistake. Not all inspectors are hard to deal with but I've heard about some that are. Staying on top of the paperwork is mandatory.
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There was a retired cop dealer here that was closed up for awhile due to illness. The day he reopened the inspectors came and were there three days. Sounds like they were real cranky from what he told me. They got on him for some paper work because of I's there were not dotted and a T that was not crossed. I have heard from some dealers that they do not like abreviations on the 4473 form.
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Well, FINALLY, my license arrived today! BATFE drug me through a hoop or two, but I obviously was able to satisfy them. Yeah!
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Well, FINALLY, my license arrived today! BATFE drug me through a hoop or two, but I obviously was able to satisfy them. Yeah!
Outstanding...and congrats on the licensing.
Glad you didn't get hung up in the hoops......continued good luck.
Peg
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Glad to hear it.
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Congrats! Another dream come true.
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Congrats on you license!
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Well, FINALLY, my license arrived today! BATFE drug me through a hoop or two, but I obviously was able to satisfy them. Yeah!
Hopefully they weren't FLAMING hoops. (or flaming a-holes, for that matter)
Congrats on the FFL!!
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Congratulations!!!!! Now you are certainly on AG Holder's short list of doors to kick in first.... ;)
But make the best of it, make some good ol' American Capitalist Profit, and I wish you the best.
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Do we get a family discount? ;)
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Congratulations, now to start out buying from the good vendors, RSR, GUNS SOUTH, BILL HICKS, send your license to everybody and start getting the catalogs or internet access, don't forget accessories are now available to you as well, including clothes, Bill Hicks used to have a big Remington and Browning clothing sale at the end of hunting season, high quality at outstanding prices.
Great luck on your new venture.
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Gratz, and best of luck.
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Grats, bjtraz :D :D :D
If you lived down the street, you'd be my best friend.....now you are still just one of the family.
Good Luck :D
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Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I just ran across this forum/topic. Had my interview today, and I *think* it went really well. Hard to tell, really, because I was so distracted by the interviewer, Damn!!!!!!
Know in a few weeks I guess.
Also: first post! Nice ta meet ya! I normally hang out in hooligan motorcycle forums...
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Sky,
Glad to have you on board. If you hand out on hooligan motorcycle forums, you'll probably fit in here well. We have our share of MC hoodlums! ;D Drop on up to the new member intro thread and introduce yourself.
Congratulations on the interview and with your comment about the interviewer I know you will fit in well. Hope you get the FFL soon with no hickups.