The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: Badgersmilk on April 11, 2009, 10:12:05 PM
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Ran into an Australian International Arms M10-A2 today at a local dealer. Never seen anything from them before. Seemed very well made, super smooth operation, clean machining, great fit and finish. $699.00. (this dealer usually charges about 30% more for firearms than anyone else in the state though... Gander Mountain)
Really cool little rifle! I love anything 7.62X39! Would've been more excited about this rifle if the stock werent so short that when in shooting position the rear peep sight was about 1" from my eyeball! Little pup must've weighed 11 pounds empty!
http://www.australianinternationalarms.com.au/
Look under "product.." for better pics of all their rifles.
When cocked, the back end of the firing pin sticking out of the bolt would have been touching my eyeball if I didnt hold my head back from it when trying to look through the sights. Made for really short asian dudes, kids, or what???
Steel butt plate with cleaning kit storage was slick! Nice to see a new gun not all "plasticy".
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Man that is some beautiful furniture, and fit and finish on those weapons! When I see guns manufactured like that, it inspires me that there is still hope left in this crazy world of ours. Bill T.
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According to all this they should shoot as well as they look! Mention the brand name to your local dealers to spread the word and invite a quality competitor to Cerberus into the market!
"Our production is limited in quantity as we build the rifles, they are not mass-produced items. We only construct about 1,000-1,200 units each year because of all the hand-work required for metal, wood, fitting & tuning of each rifle
CNC milling, forged steel receivers, full-floating barrel, a stronger charger bridge to stiffen the action, and a contemporary magazine case.
AIA’s original concept was to utilise some surplus No.4 parts, but it was found that most ‘new’ parts were rejects. The Model 10 is made entirely from new parts, using high grade steel and teak timber; no plastic, nylon or alloy. A heavier rifle, but as competition shooters and marksmen attest, they are more accurate.
The CIA/Woolwich hung trigger, Stevens-Savage bolt head release, early hinged outer bands, two-stage trigger, Lithgow cocking piece, dual L-aperture (Singer Mk I range adjustable leaf will fit), Long Branch safety lever and L42A1 sniper bedding plate on 7.62x 51mm models, are incorporated in AIA’s ‘new’ M10.
The No.4-type action is stronger, with an enlarged bolt-head rib. A recessed bolt-head houses the extractor and ejector. The fully adjustable front sight, rigid mount for a Picatinny rail (for telescope), hard chrome chamber and bore, and Brewer barrel system elevate the new AIA into the 21st century."
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Good looking guns. I really like the full furniture models. No price listed and I am SURE they are not what I would call affordable. ;)
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yep, they are very cool,
I have been thinking of getting one in with full wood on it, in .308
they are based on the No4 Lee Enfield
even better they are made here ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
http://www.lawranceordnance.com/lawrance-ordnance/rifles-aia-no4-mkiv.html
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Have an Ishy myself, Big difference that allowed the 7.62 X 51, was the advancement of using molybdenum steel.
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7.62x39? Interesting choice of caliber. For the price ($600), what are the advantages over other rifles that fire 7.62x39mm?
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7.62x39? Interesting choice of caliber. For the price ($600), what are the advantages over other rifles that fire 7.62x39mm?
for me Bolt action ::)
so I can have one ;)
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for me Bolt action ::)
so I can have one ;)
Asking it differently:
1) If you had $600 for a bolt gun, you'd get it in 7.62x39mm?
2) If you had $600 for a 7.62x39mm gun, you'd get a bolt gun?
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I always liked the look of the L39 and L42 sniper rifles. I'd have to have the M10 B1 or B2.
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Asking it differently:
1) If you had $600 for a bolt gun, you'd get it in 7.62x39mm?
2) If you had $600 for a 7.62x39mm gun, you'd get a bolt gun?
1) No
2)No
If I were going to buy an Enfield in .308 I would get an Ishy and a case + of ammo for the same money or less.
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The guns look great and i really like enfields. But in 7.62x39 I would rather get a CZ carbine in 7.62x39, and the plus side is the Mauser action.
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Asking it differently:
1) If you had $600 for a bolt gun, you'd get it in 7.62x39mm?
if I all ready had a 308 and it was "for something different" then yep I would
2) If you had $600 for a 7.62x39mm gun, you'd get a bolt gun?
Yep caus it is all I can have
I would love to get an SKK or something like that however I am not allowed to due to me not being able to justify owning one to the FaR
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intresting, but I would want it in something other then 7.62 x 39. now 260 rem or 243 win...
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Mauserman,
I've come accross the CZ / Remington in stores to. The Remington is the nicer of the 2 in my opinion because they engrave the stock. CZ makes them both though. Dont let an american name fool anybody into thinking your getting an american product!!!
Neither of them are anywhere near the same ball park as the IAI rifle for quality. The IAI rifle I saw blew away anything I've seen under $1200 in the last five years or so for build quality & fit and finish. The action "smoothness" and fit is very impressive!
For those that dont like 7.62X39 :( (Madness I tell you!), IAI makes .308's to. With only a thousand IAI's being hand fitted together and what not each year... You wont see 10 others at the range!
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7.62x39 is not exactly known for being accurate...It can be hand loaded to imporve it, but several other chamberings, you can go down to the local gun shop and buy great ammo for it. The best accuracy I've ever seen out of 7.62x39 with comm'l ammo was around 3 moa. that just does not cut it for me. More so when I can buy cheap 30.06 or 308 corloks and get ~1.5 moa.
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The "not so accurate" reputation 7.62x39 has isnt anything to do with the caliber. Its the guns and ammo we all read about it being used in. AK's and SKS's were never intended to be what we call "accurate". Fit and finish numbers are left WAY open on those guns to allow them to shoot reliably dirty. Many say they have "loose tolerances", this typically isnt the case at all (depending on manufacture of course). Those guns were designed to have loose fitting parts though. Not a tolerance issue. But NOT beneficial to accuracy! :( Its a necesary trade off.
Then the caliber gets a bad reputation because everybody in this country thats shot it including magazine reviewers are shooting surplus ammo or the cheapest crap they can get a thousand rounds of.
The caliber is fine, if applied to a quality rifle with quality ammo there is little it wont do. Iraqis issue it to designated "sharpshooters" in long barrel, high tolerance rifles.
HECK no I wouldnt want it as a sniper... But for most anything else I can think of, YOU BET!
My friend tricked out a high dollar rifle in Ruger .204, and when they were the hot new thing a .17 rim fire. Both amazing putting holes in paper!!! He was pretty red faced when I watched him shoot a crow square in the chest and it flew away one day. I remind him of it frequently just for fun ;D
Nothing man made is perfect. You try to match up ammo and rifle to the application, but it's all a comprimise at some point.
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I was speaking of it from bolt guns. I don't know about the ammo you can get down under, but here it unless you want to spend >$2 a shot, your going to get crap. Remington corloks in 30-30 are about 13/20 and 30-06 is around 17/20.
even the federal gold medal match 308 with seirra match kings is only ~1.50/ shot.
hell you can buy lupua 308 for less then $2/ shot.
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I handload for everything but occasional plinking and some practice. WAY better than the best mass produced stuff. AND cheaper per round than even the low grade junk! ;D
EVERYBODY should "roll their own!" Only way you'll really find out how accurate your weapons can be! ;D
It'd be hard to do the exact math, but I'm guessing the 7.62X39, .308, and .44 mag stuff I hand load runs around .30 cents per round or so for more accuracy, higher quality bullets (more effective), more reliable ammo than anything you'll ever get from any store.
Look into a reloading kit on Midway if they ever manage to catch up and get stuff back in stock. Lots of fun developing your own rounds to perfectly suit each of your guns and its uses!!! ;D MUCH cheaper in the long run to! Especially if they manage to pass the .05 cent per round tax's they keep talking about!
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it depends, The federal goldmedal mathc, its pretty much a wash. When your paying $.50-.75 per bullet, add in powder primers and case life. your right at the retail price. Granted you can tweak with hand loads. My point is when you compare identical loads, you would be shocked at how close prices can become. Up until a year ago, 9MM win white box was actually cheaper to buy it then it was to recreate the load.
I also disagree with the every one needs to roll thier own. Far to many idiots out there. Every one on this forum knows that guy... you know the one where he owns guns, but shouldn't.
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it depends, The federal goldmedal mathc, its pretty much a wash. When your paying $.50-.75 per bullet, add in powder primers and case life. your right at the retail price. Granted you can tweak with hand loads. My point is when you compare identical loads, you would be shocked at how close prices can become. Up until a year ago, 9MM win white box was actually cheaper to buy it then it was to recreate the load.
I also disagree with the every one needs to roll thier own. Far to many idiots out there. Every one on this forum knows that guy... you know the one where he owns guns, but shouldn't.
;D"That guy" Should absolutely be reloading just like everybody else! If he "knows to much" to follow instructions, or respect what he's working with, what quicker way could there be to rid the world of him? ;)
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;D"That guy" Should absolutely be reloading just like everybody else! If he "knows to much" to follow instructions, or respect what he's working with, what quicker way could there be to rid the world of him? ;)
Only problem with that theory is I don't want to a victim of his collateral damage. ;)
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I got a spanish Mauser from a friend, in 7.62x39, it functions but does not out shoot my Sks, it is rather nice looking, with a Boyd sporter stock and such, 3x9 cheapy scope and I am shooting Norinco Milsurp through it, I have not slugged the barrel yet to see if it is .308 or .311, that is the next step, and then try some gas checked heavy lead bullets in the 180grn range. The rounds are so short compared to the magazine length, that I could load the bullets out 1/2" and not have any problem in the magazine.
Price 125 bucks, if it shows promise with handloading, I'll get a timney trigger for it.
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Spanish Mauser X39 ? I thought those were all X51 (nato) or was this re barreled ?
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It is a rebarrel, ergo the question as to the diameter.
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;D"That guy" Should absolutely be reloading just like everybody else! If he "knows to much" to follow instructions, or respect what he's working with, what quicker way could there be to rid the world of him? ;)
I don't want to be anywhere near some one that is either "pushing the limits" or is making reloading mistakes.
Also most people don't fallow instructions.
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I don't want to be anywhere near some one that is either "pushing the limits" or is making reloading mistakes.
Also most people don't fallow instructions.
They go to the instructions to find out why the first attempt went wrong ;D
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They go to the instructions to find out why the first attempt went wrong ;D
+1 ;D
In this case they'd have plenty of time for review in their hospital bed. ;D
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They go to the instructions to find out why the first attempt went wrong ;D
when I was in college I spent a xmas season working in toys'r' us. putting bikes and other things toegther and the like.
One of the playskool products had these pins that once pushed in did not come out.
Anyways, the 1st page of the instructions had, table of contents... etc page 2 had this :
"now that you have attempted to asymble this product and failed, thank you for reading the instructions."
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I don't want to be anywhere near some one that is either "pushing the limits" or is making reloading mistakes.
Also most people don't fallow instructions.
You drive on the Freeway don't you? What's the difference?
it depends, The federal goldmedal mathc, its pretty much a wash. When your paying $.50-.75 per bullet, add in powder primers and case life. your right at the retail price. Granted you can tweak with hand loads. My point is when you compare identical loads, you would be shocked at how close prices can become. Up until a year ago, 9MM win white box was actually cheaper to buy it then it was to recreate the load.
I also disagree with the every one needs to roll thier own. Far to many idiots out there. Every one on this forum knows that guy... you know the one where he owns guns, but shouldn't.
I can reload 100 rounds of 9MM for less than half of the cost of 50 WWB. And no, I never try to recreate a factory load. As far as componet cost, I always buy in BULK. The primers I use were purchased 5 years ago and the brass was picked up at the range. The bullets are lead or plated and cost less than $80 per 1000. The point is to be able to shoot. PERIOD. Even the indoor ranges are allowing reloads now. THEY GO OUT OF BUSINESS WHEN NO ONE HAS BULLETS!
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Buying components in bulk provides better quality than factory loads could ever achieve (if you use more than 3 brain cells while shopping & loading), and costs arent even compareable.
Look at just the differance between buying (50) Hornady XTP .44 bullets @ an average price of $19.99, and a (100) box of the same thing is $29.99. Start multiplying that savings over 1,000 rounds. Then add savings of re-used brass. PERFECTLY SAFE by any standards (again, 3 brain cell rule applies).
People who care about their accuracy at all and dont hand load. ::) ::) ::)
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People who care about their accuracy at all and dont hand load. ::) ::) ::)
That's not entirely true. I buy in bulk to load in bulk, but I also have the equipment to load for accuracy. I just don't have a reason to do it that often.
When shooting competitively, it takes a lot of ammo to work out what your rifle/pistol is most accurate with. When you hand load for accuracy, you can make the subtle changes needed to improve that accuracy.
I have components and powder that I only use for hunting (accuracy) loads. When I make 20 rounds of high quality ammo, I go out to verify accuracy, then the rest last for 2 or 3 years.
I could go out and buy factory, but except for something unique like the "Leverevolution" ammo from Hornady, there is no real reason for me to do so.