The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Rastus on January 26, 2020, 07:54:21 AM
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So 56 million people (1-1/2 time the population of Canada) are quarantined in China due to the Coronavirus outbreak. Over 30 people in Britain have the disease and health experts there fear that the UK is on the brink of it's own outbreak. Some UK experts say this outbreak could be as bad as the 1918 Spanish Flu epidemic that killed 50 million people.
Now a third confirmed case of the virus was found in Orange County, California. Not to be an alarmist, but I look at the medical rhetoric about the coronavirus being "a minimal risk of local transmission" with a jaundiced eye. It must transmit with at least some ease because the Chicoms admit to at least 56 million people being quarantined...you don't do that sort of thing unless there is a reason for it.
Knowing that medical professionals are still people and have the same habits the general population has like getting bored, working sloppily, cutting corners, etc., I am keeping a close eye on the "background" information versus the news coverage. Things just like in the above paragraph....officials here say there is a minimal risk of transmission versus the crash course preps already implemented in China. Any apparently conflicting information that shows a discontinuity between official accounts and actual actions taken is to be looked for.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-hospitals-arent-ready-for-the-coronavirus-11579975968 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-hospitals-arent-ready-for-the-coronavirus-11579975968)
The above link is a decent article decrying US hospitals being sloppy with administrating controls to prevent infections from spreading. The article points out that in Toronto Canada they had the same infection controls we have today and cited that two people infected with SARS virus showed up in Toronto and Vancouver hospitals.
The person in Vancouver did not spread SARS. The person in the Toronto hospital did spread SARS. 44 people died directly from the Toronto failure to contain the SARS virus. 77 % of the people who contracted SARS were hospital health care workers or patients in the hospital and 17% of the SARS cases got it at home from their family member who was in the Toronto hospital as a worker or patient. So, 84% of the cases were directly attributable to escape from the hospital. Remember, 44 people died and SARS is not nearly as communicable as this new Chinese coronavirus.
There only seems to be ~3% coronavirus mortality rate if the Chicoms are telling the truth...and truth for them would be a change. While SARS has a very high mortality rate around 14% I think there is no comfort in 3% with the heightened transmissibility that appears to be the case with coronavirus.
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Just in...the BBC is reporting the coronavirus spreads before symptoms appear. Incubation period still appears to be unknown with estimates at 1 to 14 days.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51254523 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51254523)
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American hospitals are FILTHY places to get stuck in....
Avoiding them is advised!
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No significant or unanticipated changes in the Coronavirus in China this Monday morning. Just an anticipated progression.
Still bears watching. The stock market is set to drop a bit this morning...which if this blows over will have been a buying opportunity.
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Its been a long time since the world had an actual epidemic. I am honestly not worried about
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You know what goes good with Coronavirus...
Lymes Disease ;D
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"I expect perdition, always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damn disease.
~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo
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I figure there are 2 primary reasons for the mass hysteria geing ginned up:
1. TPTB are ginning up hysteria for some as yet unseen reason; or
2. they ain't telling us something about this virus that justified the hysteria on their part.
There are likely others, but something to consider is this: I read about an Israeli micro-biologist who noted there is a Chinese Army bio-weapons lab in Wuhan Province. It's been long know that the best way to weaponize a virus is to make its transmissibility high and its incubation period long, thereby infecting as many as possible before the outbreak occurs, all making it harder to combat.
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Even if this stays inside China, and I hope it does, the lockdowns and restrictions will start to affect the just in time inventory processes of US and world wide distribution systems. From that front the timing could not have been better since the Chinese New year had everyone ready for a 2 week shutdown. That made the first 2 weeks free. Suppliers were expected to be back online on Monday, now that is pushed back a week. Parts expected on Manufacturing floors with Chinses production starting now are not going to be there. Yes this is likely 4 to 6 weeks from now but material flies from Chinese airports everyday. So now is a time to begin to get ready.
If this continues what I expect to see:
- Reduced income for factory workers because they will be sent home because they can not assemble it without part X coming in from China. Fans, Electric motors, Circuit cards, cables, cable connectors, computers are all things that come in from Asia. This will be across industries.
- Consumer goods will start to be hard to find. We all know that most of the goods a Walmart come from China. We all know that most companies do not have warehouses they have distribution hubs. Putting goods in a warehouse and sitting on it for long periods of time is expensive on many fronts.
Even if the medical issues do not extend beyond the China borders the effects will be here soon. I know it is on the mind of my employer. I am not in the know enough to know what the effect is but I know management is worried about it. As they should be.
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World Health Organization declares coronavirus outbreak a global health emergency
https://www.foxnews.com/health/world-health-organization-declares-coronavirus-outbreak-a-global-health-emergency
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World Health Organization declares coronavirus outbreak a global health emergency
https://www.foxnews.com/health/world-health-organization-declares-coronavirus-outbreak-a-global-health-emergency
2 years ago who. Declared NaCl a cancer cuaseing substance. So grain of salt.
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2 years ago who. Declared NaCl a cancer cuaseing substance. So grain of salt.
Do you have a reference for that? Could not find one.
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I did it was in one of the misses medical journals. It was in a January issue a few years back, i suffer from CRS. So i dont remember the name. Basicly the articale said they were full of shit.
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<snip>
Even if the medical issues do not extend beyond the China borders the effects will be here soon. I know it is on the mind of my employer. I am not in the know enough to know what the effect is but I know management is worried about it. As they should be.
Bingo. Once the Kobe tragedy news dies down and impeachment people will become aware. China's economy is one hurt puppy.
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Bingo. Once the Kobe tragedy news dies down and impeachment people will become aware. China's economy is one hurt puppy.
I know this is off thread but, I do wonder if that will cause the price of goods from China (Now there's an oxymoron) will decrease in order for them to sell more.
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I think the price will be higher if anything. However, with Trump's tariffs we have been buying more from Vietnam, Philippines, South Korea, Japan, etc... The Chicoms have lost permanent market share. So maybe the price will go down but based upon trying to get back what they lost to other providers.
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I think you'll be hearing a lot more about coronavirus starting today. The Chicoms admitted to undercounting in Hubei provice (starting point...so they say) and increased infections over 15,000 today. They also added nearly 250 deaths.
Here's a good article to read: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/sudden-militarization-wuhans-p4-lab-raises-new-questions-about-origin-deadly-covid-19 (https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/sudden-militarization-wuhans-p4-lab-raises-new-questions-about-origin-deadly-covid-19)
The article appears to be well researched and it is persuasive. Bottom line we have a bio-engineered weapon loose and their top weapons designer is on the case along with 2,600 military members being assigned today.
I am by no means panicing at this point but I have gone up a defcon level....I am reexamining preparations. If this new information leads to increased revisions and worldwide escalations, like it is not contained, then on Friday it will be time to prepare in earnest.
As Professor Neil Ferguson has warned that, "we?re at the eary stages of a global pandemic?.
This should impart to you a healthy concern:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/coronavirusoutbreak?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/hashtag/coronavirusoutbreak?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw).
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/02/13/us-military-prepping-for-coronavirus-pandemic/ (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/02/13/us-military-prepping-for-coronavirus-pandemic/)
Your Military
US military prepping for coronavirus pandemic
Patricia Kime
12 hours ago
American evacuees from China board a bus after arriving by flight to Eppley Airfield in Omaha, Neb., on Friday. The evacuees are to be quarantined at Camp Ashland, a nearby Nebraska National Guard training base. While the number of cases of COVID19 remain at 13 in the U.S., the military is making sure it's ready if an outbreak were to occur. (Nati Harnik/AP)
U.S. Northern Command is executing plans to prepare for a potential pandemic of the novel coronavirus, now called COVID19, according to Navy and Marine Corps service-wide messages issued this week.
An executive order issued by the Joint Staff and approved by Defense Secretary Mark Esper this month directed Northern Command and geographic combatant commanders to initiate pandemic plans, which include ordering commanders to prepare for widespread outbreaks and confining service members with a history of travel to China.
The Navy and Marine Corps messages, issued Tuesday and Wednesday, respectively, reference an executive order directing U.S. Northern Command to implement the Department of Defense Global Campaign plan for Pandemic Influenza and Infectious Diseases 3551-13.
The document serves as the Pentagon's blueprint for planning and preparing for widespread dispersion of influenza and previously unknown diseases.
U.S. Northern Command said Wednesday it was directed the Joint Staff Feb. 1 to commence prudent planning in their assigned role synchronizing the department's plans for pandemic flu and disease.
But in no way does the planning indicate a greater likelihood of an event developing. As military professionals, planning for a range of contingencies is something we owe the American people," Navy Lt. Cmdr. Mike Hatfield said.
"We coordinate with other combatant commands to assess potential impacts in the event of a pandemic and we ensure the U.S. military is poised to respond as required, Hatfield said in a statement. The military profession fosters a culture of planning, and the fact that we are coordinating planning efforts across the geographical combatant commands is consistent with how we prepare to respond, if directed.
According to the Marine Corps message MARADMIN 082/20, commanders are to review their disease containment plans and take preparatory and precautionary actions? to protect service members, installations and ships.
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Do you know what goes great with the coronavirus?
Lyme disease
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That was a great response Tab. I used it quite a bit...I hope you don't mind.
For right now, the 22nd of February, the virus looks like it's in the early stages of getting out of control in South Korea. Northen Italy https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/02/22/coronavirus-italy-towns-lockdown-deaths-virus-spreads/4841539002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/02/22/coronavirus-italy-towns-lockdown-deaths-virus-spreads/4841539002/) is being put "on lockdown" as a handful of cases have the earmarks of acceleration. No one in either country seems to know who brought the stuff in so they can't warn people of having been exposed.
I can't believe Africa isn't having a lot of cases. Maybe it's the medical practices thing over there coupled with poor communication????
China says things are getting better but they are going ahead with building 19 hospitals in Wuchan...really, I thought things were getting better and people were getting well.....?????
I've read that the State Department brought the people back from the Diamond Princess in a way that pissed off the CDC so badly they said to not attach their name to the effort. The Japanese blew containment on the Diamond Princess https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ship-out-control-nyt-exposes-japans-disastrous-missteps-botched-diamond-princess (https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ship-out-control-nyt-exposes-japans-disastrous-missteps-botched-diamond-princess) and Japanese doctors said bureaucrats made the call on what to do...
The Chinese said they are finding the virus in urine which...I think...is unheard of.
I had a doctor friend of mine tell me if I wash my hands I'll be fine....
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/what-is-pandemic#1 (https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/what-is-pandemic#1)
CDC Coronavirus Situation Summary & Recomendations: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/summary.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/summary.html)
US State Dept. China Travel Advisory: LEVEL 4 DO NOT TRAVEL https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/china-travel-advisory.html (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/china-travel-advisory.html)
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Doctor I know got a briefing a couple of days ago. This is not the flu they thought it was.
But the really disturbing thing is that in the "thick of the battle" there is a 30% rate of medical personnel just not showing up to work because they are overwhelmed.
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I didn't read anything about the coronavirus until I read this thread. I was aware of it's existence and knew people were panicking because I heard talk about it. From what I've read so far it sounds like over 2,800 people have died from this coronavirus outbreak. But if this turns out to only be an average year for the flu, it will kill 400,000 people. It's no surprise this originated in China. Nearly all of the new influenza and coronaviruses come from China. Offhand, the only exception I can think of is MERS.
On a related topic: How does the CDC decide which strains of flu to vaccinate against each year? Some strains of flu that end up in our vaccines don't even exist in the U.S. Not yet. But they do in filthy, overcrowded, animals everywhere, and people eat anything that moves, s**t in the street, China. It's like a time machine, but when they go over there to study the viruses they don't know if they'll be here this year or 10 years from now. They only know that what's in China at the present will be here in the future unless all the carriers die first. Like a fire that burns itself out and doesn't spread, you get lucky and the virus doesn't leave the hot zone. But that doesn't happen very often. It's not in the virus' best interest to kill its host before it spreads, and this is where natural selection fits in. Survival of the fittest and sometimes stealthiest.
The virologists have to decide, out of all the different flu viruses, which 3 they think will be the biggest problem the next flu season, then the drug companies make the vaccine for the season. And it always starts in that overflowing Petri dish full of tainted specimens called China. And the flu shot will only work that one year because viruses mutate so fast. Then along comes this coronavirus with no vaccine, and no real hope of an effective vaccine being produced anytime soon. The good new is, if you're healthy and you get it, there's a very good chance you'll be okay. If you're sick with pneumonia or the flu already your odds are still pretty good.
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But they do in filthy, overcrowded, animals everywhere, and people eat anything that moves, s**t in the street, China.
And NOW Kalifornia. San Francisco to be exact. It would not surprise me at all if we start getting more and more of these diseases starting here in this country thanks to the lower standard of living brought on by the Democratic leadership in Kalifornia. Lower standard of living, wholesale importing of illegal immigrants that bypass any sort of health check, etc..
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Always keep in mind what people say and what they do may indicated 2 different things. The Chinese have a flu season every year like us. The difference is this time they quarantined 70 million to their homes, another 600 million plus to their neighborhoods and restricted travel. Regardless of what we may think you just don't do that for the regular flu. If you did isolate like that for a flu season it would have been done for the flu seasons in the past. This one is different.
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I have heard it suggested that Corona is a research project for a biological weapon gone amiss....no real proof..just a pile of circumstantial evidence.
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The misses has been going to meetings about it what seems like every day for the past 2 weeks. Granted she would not really see a case of it. She still has to go theu the shtf stuff.
I am still mot personally worried about it. I am worried about friends/ family that have weak immune systems, but thats normal.
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The economic fallout will impact most people who work. The Wuhan China area (Hubei Provine) still has the 60 million people plus under quarantine after 6 weeks....that's not a good sign.
I go with Occam's Razor on this one.
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Read a blurb about some US chemist who was being investigated or tried for giving proprietary info and for working with the Chinese Bio-weapons lab in Wuhan...don't know the reliability of this report, but what a coincidence.
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Actually a 2nd university professor was charged this past week. They sold us out.
I don't think this is related to the Coronavirus. Just goes to show what the liberal bastards bastions are good for.
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Grapevine says the interstates will be shut down...probably the weekend or maybe at the end of the weekend. No non-essential commercial transportation and only trips for food or medical reasons will be allowed. Any of you guys get a drift in that direction?
Not to alarm anyone of course...it may be BS...
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Something i just noticed while checking out the mls. Thr ammount of properties pulled from the market is troubling. 90% have been pulled( or sold... yeah right) in the last week.
If i was still working i would be going out of my mind right now staying at home like i am now.
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I'm not doubting you, but how can that be? Aren't virtually all of the properties listed in the MLS from real estate agents and isn't there a contract on the properties? I don't see how that many contracts go away overnight?
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Illinois announced a Shelter In Place Order yesterday. Starting this evening, Saturday, it goes into affect. It really doesn't mean anything at this time, but I'm sure it will expand. The order limits all citizens to basics - Food (grocery and take out), medical (including medications), and fuel, and we are still allowed to go out for walks, use parks, etc. They are limiting gatherings, and state the social distancing stuff. There is a lot in it about working from home if possible, and support for those who can't.
Yesterday I was sent home to work from home until further notice. That makes three of us out of the office staff. They took the rest that are in the playpen of cubicles and spread them out by using unused cubicles and space vacated by a couple of us.
With the ability to be on the system (we use Amazon Workspace) and cellphone, for 95% of my stuff it is normal, but it already feels weird not being around the others. Friday was a short day of work with the move, today will be normal doing some stuff, but Monday will be strange.
This whole thing with COVID-19 is real, we will get through it, it will be no worse than any other similar current era situation, but we will learn a lot about ourselves and our communities. If we each handle it properly, we will be far better for it, and the next time something comes along, we will all be better prepared.
How many of you watched Michael Bane's discussion with Mike Seeklander, Rob Pincus, and Mike Janich Thursday evening? They went back and discussed the situation and referenced the Best Defense Survival, what they learned then and since. Rob Pincus posted on Wednesday that he had gone back and watched the show that he had been a part of for some reminders.
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I watched part of the discussion....it was around 02:30 when I started it so...did not finish. But it's time. I tried to find the pandemic show but can't.
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Pat Condell expresses his view of this epidemic.
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Costco says no returns on toilet paper and hand sanitizer.
For fear you could have contained it with the virus.
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Apparently, Johnny Morris is considering Cabela?s an essential resource and won?t close our store per the governors shut down order.
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If you have guns and/or ammo left to sell then that would be essential goods....
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If you have guns and/or ammo left to sell then that would be essential goods....
Pretty much empty of both...this is just stupid...and I'm of a mind that thinks this whole mess is WAY overrated!
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Pretty much empty of both...this is just stupid...and I?m of a mind that thinks this whole mess is WAY overrated!
Agreed
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We are one of the lucky essential services, in that we provide meat to retailers.
Last week we broke, or in the words of our president - SHATTERED, every company record - Gross sales, tonnage, margins, and profits. It was unbelievable, and this week is starting out even stronger. I know that when this is all over with we will go through a slump. There is only so much food that people can eat, and their houses are packed with it. I expect that food service will be very busy when everything lifts, and we have several customers in that area that have gone dormant.
Well, time to go back and clean off the desk to get ready for tomorrow. Beyond our own trucks, that we are running about 50% more of, and all the loads being delivered, I booked 17 full loads today to be picked up at the packers and taken to customers. Seventeen loads equals about 650,000 pounds of beef and pork.
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Just got the call!
Two week shut down with pay and unemployment after that if it's extended further.
Backgammon and cribbage tourney to commence this afternoon!
Gun vault is stocked with a few hundred rounds of defensive ammo and same for ball...
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Gun vault is stocked with a few hundred rounds of defensive ammo and same for ball...
Amateur ;D ;D
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Amateur ;D ;D
[emoji106][emoji109]
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Grapevine says the interstates will be shut down...probably the weekend or maybe at the end of the weekend. No non-essential commercial transportation and only trips for food or medical reasons will be allowed. Any of you guys get a drift in that direction?
Not to alarm anyone of course...it may be BS...
Remember all those WWII movies where somebody drives up to a Nazi checkpoint and the guard goes "Papier; bitte!" ?
Well...I just printed off my work's traveling papers/credentials.
I am currently employed at a refinery...we make gasoline, jet fuel, diesel, etc. Consequently we are considered essential personnel.
Which is why our HR department emailed us our "get out of jail free" cards. One is a placard which stays on the dash. The other stays in the glovebox. This is in Illinois. Governor J. B. Pritker (aka Jabba the Hut) issued a stay at home order this past Saturday.
Me? Personally?
I hang out in the General Discussion section of AR15 dot com.
There is way more "data" being "transmitted" there and the signal to noise ratio is skewed a bunch. So at times it is difficult to wade or sift through all the other miscellaneous crap and purse swinging.
The latest I read was Spain is using an ice skating rink to store bodies in.
:-(
It has the potential to be really, really BAD!
And my kinda default position is to refer people to the movie The Trigger Effect:
On my own personal, anecdotal level, I went to the St. Louis Cabela's on Friday and Saturday. I ended up chit chatting with the same clerk both days.
Her first comment on Friday that got my attention with me was she said....supposedly...that one of their gun counter clerks asked a hoodrat "Why don't you use your money to buy extra food and toilet paper.?" Supposedly, the hoodrat replied "If I have a gun, I don't need to buy those other things."
Then on Saturday when I was talking with that same clerk again, she said...her exact words were "I have seen more blacks here in the past 3 days than I have seen in the past 3 years."
The store was practically cleared out of the ammo.
And lots of hoodrats were eyeballing magazines and holsters.
I also made a trip to my local gun store on Saturday mornimg. It was packed with a line almost out the door. And a lot of the customers were buying ammo, but didn't know the difference between hollow points and FMJ's.
If things do get froggy, there are a bunch of amateurs out there.
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Amateurs. Another good reason to stay at home.
Ooops...maybe not...the amateur could be your neighbor.
Credentials. I had to have them to travel around after Hurricane Katrina. An oilfield buddy got them for California last week...easy enough for anyone to copy.....like yours appear to be.
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I work the gun counter at the Cabela?s here in MA. Since you must have a carry license here, it weeds out the bangers.
We?re cleaned out of most everything but high end shotguns and most rifles but the ammo is non existent for everything!
Too many first timers is a bit scary.
We closed yesterday for the requisite two weeks...
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Too many first timers is a bit scary.
And that's what concerns me most... Under ordinary circumstances I try to be very encouraging to new gun buyers. But, there are so many first-timers buying firearms they know nothing about, I'm afraid for my fellow citizens. I think it's just a matter of time before Joey Lunchbox shoots his kid, or his neighbor's kid, sneaking back home after a brief fraternization to spread the virus while burning a bit of bud.
Of course, that could all work out very well for the rest of us when this mess finally resolves--and it will resolve. There may be a lot of fine guns on the market at very low prices.
Just finding a little hope...
Crusader Rabbit
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We had a fella buy four handguns two weeks back! Spent about 3K including a FNX-45 Tac with threaded barrel which is useless here due to can restrictions...
I?m not sure if he was a newb cuz I didn?t talk to him...too busy taking care of some Chinese immigrants who were afraid of their neighbors!
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Got 500 rounds of 9mm in the mail today that I ordered from Academy last Friday. It was a regular order to save driving sixty miles one way to get it. The next day was when the major panic seemed to set in.
I bought my wife a Ruger last month and since it is the first ever 9mm pistola on the property I didn't have much ammo stored for it so I needed it regardless of the circumstances. I haven't checked since to see if you can still get any.... I doubt it.
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Grapevine says the interstates will be shut down...probably the weekend or maybe at the end of the weekend. No non-essential commercial transportation and only trips for food or medical reasons will be allowed. Any of you guys get a drift in that direction?
Not to alarm anyone of course...it may be BS...
Coming up on the second weekend since this, and we have heard nothing. My guess is that it was just social media gossip.
Good old social media. As barber shops and coffee shops go away, social media makes sure the rumors and gossip remain.
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I have little doubt the leftists are dripping to have the economy tank and blame the Donald for all of this as a last ditch effort to gain control of the WH and both houses of congress.
Impeaching him didn't work!
Thoughts?
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This stuff is getting out of hand.
Today i tried to take the misses some food and a change of clothes becuase she had to work a double shift. (24 hrs) They had a nurse at the door taking temps, passing out gloves and masks. The line and checks took 42 mins. All so i could walk ~ 60' into the building drop off the bag at the vacant desk. Takr 10 syeps back and watch the misses pick it up in simlar garb. 10' was as close as we were allowed to get...
We share a bed. I know for a fact that we spread germs back and forth all the time.
I am pretty sure the staff that i was exposed too for the check at the door was more than i have been exposed too in the last week.
Does not help that her car is in the shop for a coolent leak. So i am driving her back and forth anyways. On the plus side when i called aaa to have it towed. From the time i called the 1800# ubtil i got a second call that they were waiting for me out side the house was 12 min and i spent 7 on the phone with the 1800#. The driver said it was the only tow of his shift.
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Coming up on the second weekend since this, and we have heard nothing. My guess is that it was just social media gossip.
Good old social media. As barber shops and coffee shops go away, social media makes sure the rumors and gossip remain.
Yep.
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Yep.
At least at the barber shop you were talking to men. Not the soy boys on social media. Well at the ones i went to
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Good old social media. As barber shops and coffee shops go away, social media makes sure the rumors and gossip remain.
Can't even do that around here as the Governor has closed those as well. He considers then non-essential.
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Just read that Germany is banning gatherings of 2 or more. So, gatherings of 1 and below are ok??
Germany is banning gatherings of 2 or more people to slow coronavirus outbreak
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/fn398o/germany_is_banning_gatherings_of_2_or_more_people/?utm_source=BD&utm_medium=Search&utm_name=Bing&utm_content=PSR3
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I haven't read most of the thread yet, but wanted to make sure this was in here. The Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) Situation Dashboard from WHO. 21,031 deaths so far, 884 in the U.S.
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/685d0ace521648f8a5beeeee1b9125cd
I had a cold wet nose like a dog for a few days, and a cough for a couple of days that almost stopped tonight. Two nights ago I turned the thermostat down to 60 before I went to bed, like I've been doing. I also unhooked the electric blanket and put a regular blanket on the bed, which I threw on the floor when I went to bed. I didn't check my temperature but I felt feverish. I laid there when it got down to 62-63 degrees, with a fan blowing on me until well after the sweat on my back dried up. I covered up from my feet to my waist with a sheet because the fan is by my feet and my toes get cold. I think I had a cold or something but except for getting really sweaty for a few hours it was very mild. If my head would ever quit hurting I'd be okay.
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Can't even do that around here as the Governor has closed those as well. He considers then non-essential.
That was part of what I was referring to. Even without this outbreak, barbers and coffee shops are going away. However, right after closing the bars and dine in restaurants, hair dressers and barbers were shut down. Tattoo came a day later, then massage, gyms, but all of our physical therapy places are still going full bore.
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In the midst of all this, be wary of "selected info"
For instance, it was "loudly declared" (in print and talk headlines) that the US has now surpassed Italy in Corona confirmed cases!!!!!
But here are the numbers. First thing to keep in mind is that the US population is over 5 times that of Italy, so the fact the US is slightly ahead of them is simply no big deal.
Then look at the deaths.....Italy, with fewer cases than the US has over 6 times the deaths of the US. So our status in comparison to Italy is extremely favorable...but that is not how it is sensationalized by the media...
United States 85,594 1,300
Italy 80,589 8,215
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Ah yes....lying with statistics. Most people have their brains out of gear and gobble it up....those are the ones who should not vote.
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Last night the blurb from some talking head, trying to make a name for himself, was that the US had passed China in cases. I knew that was false, but didn't know what he meant to say. I guess he did make a name for himself, but not the type he wanted.
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Here is a link to a "The Epoch Times" coverage of the virus. The paper, founded by a dissident who escaped China and published now in several countries claims that China's numbers are falsified to be 1/10 of actual.
Here is a link to the latest issue of their virus coverage...nope it works....note the *'s () around China's numbers.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/ccp-virus?utm_source=Epoch+Times+Newsletters&utm_campaign=573bf23fee-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_03_26_10_11&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_4fba358ecf-573bf23fee-238983317
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Just like when they talk about gun deaths, they include suicide.
Yet no one ever calls them out for thier bs. It bet if i was to start a news channel that did nothing but call out the others bs, it would be the higheat rated news show of all time.
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Just like when they talk about gun deaths, they include suicide.
Yet no one ever calls them out for thier bs. It bet if i was to start a news channel that did nothing but call out the others bs, it would be the higheat rated news show of all time.
Yep. The MSM leaves out the Covid-19 co-morbidity rates.
For example, the biggest hot-spot in our region of the state is about thirty miles west in a metro area of about 80k. That city has the highest death rate, but what they fail to mention is that of those who have died while having the virus, over 90% also have other significant health issues like HIV, COPD, heart disease, over 70 in age, etc. Most of these folks would die if they had the flu.
I'm certainly not saying to overlook the seriousness of this virus, but another thing concerning the media in ginning-up all the panic is that they are neglecting to mention that the flu is still more deadly at this point.
Based on the CDC median range of deaths (30k-60k), on average 188 people die per day of the flu in the "designated" eight month season from October to May.
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I made the point, asked the question, whatever, concerning the numbers: These are confirmed tested cases. How does that compare with actual total cases, and what about the disparity of deaths between the nations? When asking on a media outlet you are setting your self up for being a "stupid Putin Trumpkin Goob troll."
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Everyone I know who has had business in China the last 20-30 years says if the news is good it is 10X overstated and if it is bad then it is 10X understated. Not surprised.
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Nancy Pelosi and company sided with the Russians and the Saudi's and stripped the Strategic Petroleum Reserve crude oil acquisition out of the aid package that just passed. The equity world is abandoning O&G development in a way never seen before and the word from that world is that maybe 10 of the 50 largest US oil companies will be open for business at the end of the year. Gee, thanks for that support congress? Expect $150 to $200 a barrel within 2 years...and it will still be the oil company's fault....of course.
On another front, I think overall here in the US that we may need to approach all work and the economy as was done in factories and industry after the Civil War and up to WWII. A certain number of people will go to work and some of us will die. That's what people did to improve things. Not death by virus of course, but from poor and dangerous practices, unsafe conditions, etc. It was just anticipated, so long as there were not a rash of deaths, that someone was going to die at work. I'm certainly willing to do that to help my children's future.
I believe Trump is right and if we're not back at it by mid-April the Wuhan flu will be way down on the list of what's important. This nation needs to get back to work or it could be lights out for the USA. I've heard economic projections and Easter plus or minus 72 hours may be a tipping point for total US economic collapse. Let that soak in for a minute. And before you say it can't happen here put your head in gear and flush out why you think "the norm" still exists. The basis behind everything is changing.
That's really where Trump is coming from....not from medical ignorance on his part but on enlightenment that this cannot continue. And I hate that the talking heads are calling the aid package a stimulus bill. It's not to stimulate the economy it's to save the economy.
If everything does go to hell, the dims supporters in the big metro areas will get the worst of it. There has already been some minor looting in Tulsa.
I started this thread way back towards the end of January. I wanted to start it the first week of January, but for sure everyone would have thought I was a loon. I hope someone here took it to heart and made a few early preparations......and think about what it is you can do after mid-April if things go sideways.
I reset and changed the poll.....
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About you think you have seen the full depth of stupidity, the dam bursts and you darn near drown.
Reading some mainstream news tonight, and the level of blame is unbelievable. From the bitch mayor of New Orleans claiming it is Trumps fault that she held Mardi Gras and now has an outbreak of Corona, to the a-hole in New York claiming that he has no ventilators and then says he has ventilators in a warehouse and then claims the hospitals don't have ventilators because they don't need them yet (if you can translate that let me know), to the sheep on the street accepting the claims of hospital administrators saying that is the federal government's job to warehouse all of their supplies and equipment for them. By warehouse I mean purchase, maintain, and handout for free when they need it.
The idiots on the street, fed and fueled by the media, are pure Socialists.
Boys and girls, load the guns and bolt the doors. Do you have your Bug Out Gear ready? Do you have your basic household stocks, including food, in place? This is going to get UGLY fast.
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Rastus, can you provide link for minor looting in Tulsa?
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Nancy Pelosi and company sided with the Russians and the Saudi's and stripped the Strategic Petroleum Reserve crude oil acquisition out of the aid package that just passed. The equity world is abandoning O&G development in a way never seen before and the word from that world is that maybe 10 of the 50 largest US oil companies will be open for business at the end of the year. Gee, thanks for that support congress? Expect $150 to $200 a barrel within 2 years...and it will still be the oil company's fault....of course.
On another front, I think overall here in the US that we may need to approach all work and the economy as was done in factories and industry after the Civil War and up to WWII. A certain number of people will go to work and some of us will die. That's what people did to improve things. Not death by virus of course, but from poor and dangerous practices, unsafe conditions, etc. It was just anticipated, so long as there were not a rash of deaths, that someone was going to die at work. I'm certainly willing to do that to help my children's future.
I believe Trump is right and if we're not back at it by mid-April the Wuhan flu will be way down on the list of what's important. This nation needs to get back to work or it could be lights out for the USA. I've heard economic projections and Easter plus or minus 72 hours may be a tipping point for total US economic collapse. Let that soak in for a minute. And before you say it can't happen here put your head in gear and flush out why you think "the norm" still exists. The basis behind everything is changing.
That's really where Trump is coming from....not from medical ignorance on his part but on enlightenment that this cannot continue. And I hate that the talking heads are calling the aid package a stimulus bill. It's not to stimulate the economy it's to save the economy.
If everything does go to hell, the dims supporters in the big metro areas will get the worst of it. There has already been some minor looting in Tulsa.
I started this thread way back towards the end of January. I wanted to start it the first week of January, but for sure everyone would have thought I was a loon. I hope someone here took it to heart and made a few early preparations......and think about what it is you can do after mid-April if things go sideways.
I reset and changed the poll.....
Well...poop! The forum software ate my reply.
Anywhoo...Rastus, I work in oil refining so you definitely got my attention.
The forum software doesn't like my pics either.
They were screen caps from either 4 chan or Reddit where some anonymous dude was talking mainly about the stock market being affected by the coronavirus. All these anonymous posts were made on January 31st. One of them specifically said Italy was going to be really hit hard.
One of the other screen caps said that U.S. deaths from Covid19 are going to pale in comparison to the deaths from civil unrest...from basically trying to implement martial law.
Sooooo....if this anonymous dude was so accurate about his Italy prediction, I am wondering if he is going to be that accurate with his civil unrest prediction ???
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Rastus, can you provide link for minor looting in Tulsa?
No. I have some pictures from 21st and Sheridan where a storage facility was ransacked. There may be something on the news about that now but I got word before anyone really knew. They punched the locks and cleaned it out....
Tyler I don't know that refineries and pipelines are going to hurt as bad as producers. That 10 out of 50 was for producers. It sounds unbelievable to me but a friend who runs a section of a refinery just received a tankerful of Saudi oil for $12 a barrel. That's just under 29 cents a gallon for crude.
For civil unrest who knows. So long as people have food and water and internet along with television we're probably good for no riots. People get hungry....it'll get ugly.
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I made a point in the mid 80's that the World is a Snarling Beast and we protected from it only by the shield of our technology.
Well, there is a crack in that shield and that beast is squeezing through...
So now it all depends upon how quickly that crack to patched...
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Hopefully it get's patched quickly....but who knows?
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Rastus, Thanks I am up in Bartlesville and hadn't heard about that.
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Dave if I pick up anything new I'll try to pass it on. I have a couple of friends on Tulsa PD who alert me to interesting things now and again.
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I am personally worried about all the unemployment. Lots of people are going to be out of work. Even with the free money they are giving out/ will give out to small businesses, many will fail.
Just look at the restaurant industry. The fact that they have been shut down does not just effect them, it also effects all thr companies that suport them. We are talking everything from linen services to farms.
Pretty much all of the high over head low profit businesses will be affected for the next 10 years. No one will loan thrm money.
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No. I have some pictures from 21st and Sheridan where a storage facility was ransacked. There may be something on the news about that now but I got word before anyone really knew. They punched the locks and cleaned it out....
Tyler I don't know that refineries and pipelines are going to hurt as bad as producers. That 10 out of 50 was for producers. It sounds unbelievable to me but a friend who runs a section of a refinery just received a tankerful of Saudi oil for $12 a barrel. That's just under 29 cents a gallon for crude.
For civil unrest who knows. So long as people have food and water and internet along with television we're probably good for no riots. People get hungry....it'll get ugly.
By producers, do you mean the people who actually extract the oil out of the ground?
If so, yeah, I could see that.
Back in 2015 and 2016, if my memory is correct, the Saudi's started dumping their cheap crude on the world market.
So that made the price of West Texas Intermediate crude oil (WTI) drop from around $100 a barrel down to below $30 a barrel.
That practically killed off all fracking here in the states/North America.
The refinery I work at gets a lot of raw crude from the Alberta tar sands in Canada.
It used to be much, MUCH CHEAPER than WTI.
So yeah, just like fracking operations, I could see crude (WTI?) Get so low that it is not worth it to extract it out of the Alberta tar sands.
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Rastus, Thanks I am up in Bartlesville and hadn't heard about that.
I am "downstream" of you.
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Yep.
Upstream and drowning.
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By downstream, I meant the HQ for who I work for is in Bartlesville.
Anywhooo....I saw where crude prices dropped below $20 a barrel.
It absolutely blows my mind.
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Does anyone here know anyone with the virus?
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A good friend of mine, his brother.
He is 63...
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Dang I hope he heals up real quick.
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John said he ain?t feeling too skippy.
MA has 150 plus dead already. We worked till the 23rd before they shut down the state.
Now furloughed till April 30.
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No, but i have been exposed. Misses was exposed at work and so i effectively have been
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Spoke with one of my oldest friends a few hours ago. About 60 years of friendship...
He a widow maker survivor and the misses suffers from MS.
They are both recovering after two weeks from what their docs figure is Covid.
Scary but out of the woods...
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I have a young friend whose wedding I officiated about 5 years back. Last night I was informed his wife has been taken to the ER just north of here with serious symptoms. They expect confirmation today. They have a 3-year-old daughter. It's just wait and see from this point.
He had volunteered to come down and do some shopping for us (Bunny and I are in the over 65 group). I told him thanks, but no thanks since we have a local grocery store that doesn't seem to draw a crowd at 8 in the morning on a Thursday when we shop. And, that's our big day out these days.
Self-isolate and stay healthy.
Crusader Rabbit
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I still haven't been tested for COVID-19 because I never got sick enough to go to the doctor. I seem to have caught a lower respiratory infection and an upper respiratory infection at the same time. Some of my symptoms are just common cold symptoms like from a plain old rhinovirus. I got something right up the ol' rhino, but I went from having a runny nose to my sinuses being dry as a bone for a week. That's really not healthy because there's nothing in there to flush out the germs. To be honest, I'd rather have the runny nose.
I haven't just had a tickle in my throat and a cough. The tickle went all the way down my trachea almost to the tip of my breastbone. That's not a cold symptom, but it was only real bad for a few days, and it's mostly a tickle in the throat now. The cough was bad for a few days, then not so bad a few days, and keeps nearly going away then coming back again. I don't have any trouble breathing, but when I take deep breaths there's some pain in the middle of my chest afterward. When I worked with a bunch of smokers and kept getting bronchitis, I could hear a crackling kind of sound in my lungs when I took a deep breath, but not now. The lungs sound good, and I always know before a doctor checks with a stethoscope.
If COVID-19 wasn't real bad around here I might think I just got a cold and flu at the same time. But if it was the flu, it should have been gone by now. My body does a pretty good job of fighting off bacteria but not viruses. I used to catch everything that was going around before I started getting flu shots every year. I had 2 different pneumonia vaccinations within the last few years too, and I think that covers 40 strains. So I might have COVID-19, but I think it's going to take more than that to kill me.
I still haven't read much of the thread, but I hope all of you and yours are doing well in this trying time.
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Like JunboFrank said, I, and most of my family, had something a couple of months ago. Dry cough that would not go away, tickle in the back of the throat. It seemed to last a month or better before it went away. In KY CONVID-19 is not as bad as other states have it so I really don't know if we had it or not. At least what we had, while not fun, did not have the death punch CONVID-19 seems to have. Thank God.
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Well, there is some good news with my young friends. She tested negative for Covid 19 so apparently she just has a butt-kicking case of influenza. Still, she is having breathing distress and a high fever, and a number of the Corona virus testing has come back with a false negative. Locally, officials are saying a positive means positive, but a negative doesn't always mean negative. We'll just have to wait and see. They did discharge her, so she's home. I don't know if that's good or bad. Stay tuned.
Crusader Rabbit
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My cousin's daughter is a nurse (in north GA) and tested positive earlier this week. She also exposed her four kids but so far none show symptoms. She reported today that her symptoms were milder than many others and she is already feeling better.
Many healthy people who get the virus are reporting mild symptoms compared to something like the flu virus which seems to have more symptoms than C-19.
As a side note: Albany, GA (about 35 miles west of me) just jumped to the #4 C-19 hotspot for deaths per capita. Mainly attributed to the fact that after the PotUS and governor made the shelter-in directives the idiot inhabitants of the metro area (just under 90k) proceeded to have block parties and massive cookouts and basically disregarded any and all requests by authorities to take precautions.
While I am thoroughly convinced that some of the instituted measures were over-hyped, panic-led and less effective than thought, I also feel that many of the personal precautions that we as individuals can take (sanitizing and hand washing and avoiding unnecessary physical contact etc) is essential in mitigating spread.....and Albany did none of it.
Like I said.... IDIOTS.
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My cousin's daughter is a nurse (in north GA) and tested positive earlier this week. She also exposed her four kids but so far none show symptoms. She reported today that her symptoms were milder than many others and she is already feeling better.
Many healthy people who get the virus are reporting mild symptoms compared to something like the flu virus which seems to have more symptoms than C-19.
As a side note: Albany, GA (about 35 miles west of me) just jumped to the #4 C-19 hotspot for deaths per capita. Mainly attributed to the fact that after the PotUS and governor made the shelter-in directives the idiot inhabitants of the metro area (just under 90k) proceeded to have block parties and massive cookouts and basically disregarded any and all requests by authorities to take precautions.
While I am thoroughly convinced that some of the instituted measures were over-hyped, panic-led and less effective than thought, I also feel that many of the personal precautions that we as individuals can take (sanitizing and hand washing and avoiding unnecessary physical contact etc) is essential in mitigating spread.....and Albany did none of it.
Like I said.... IDIOTS.I
Sounds like the idiots in my home town, they all kept going to church and even upped thr number of meetings. Out of a congregation of about 500, 70 of them died from it. All of thrm were over 65.
Dont get me wrong i think most of what we are doing is ineffective, but stopping 100s of people intermingling several times a week is not one of those things. Common sense is not very common.
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if I had a better crystal ball, now would be the time to tell your college bound kids to look into the field of epidemiology... there is going to be a 24/7 monitoring and reporting staff withing every US Embassy and Legation around the world, with their own secure dedicated reporting line
and never again rely on the WHO for intelligence
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The CDC has a Coronavirus Self-Checker where you just check the boxes for things like what symptoms you have, if you've been around people with COVID-19, are you a healthcare worker, etc., and it advises you what to do. I got an email from Blue Cross today saying they're waiving fees for COVID-19 testing even if it's done out of network, and they're waiving some other fees and things too. I think I'll call my doctor tomorrow and see what she says about getting tested. If she can't do I'll go somewhere else because I want to know why this cough just won't go away. And if I have COVID-19, I don't want to give it to my family or friends, or anyone for that matter. Well, maybe I'd like a couple of people who've done me wrong to suffer.
The problem in the U.S. is we were never prepared for an epidemic, much less a pandemic, even though doctors and scientists at WHO, CDC, and elsewhere kept saying it's not a matter of if, but when, it happens. This is a walk in the park compared to what the next outbreak could be like. We won't be ready for that one either. Whoever got it this year isn't likely to have built up any kind of immunity to the next one either because viruses mutate so rapidly. It isn't likely to kill half of the world's population like the Black Death, but it could kill 50 million like the Spanish Flu.
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How simple it is for a hotspot to get established:
In February, family members gathered for a Chicago-area funeral. A family friend who had been out of state attended and was just a bit sick with mild respiratory symptoms.
Before long, 16 people between the ages of 5 and 86 had been infected with the novel coronavirus (seven confirmed and nine probable), and three had died.
The CDC report begins the night before the funeral. The traveling friend ? dubbed ?Patient A1.1? as the first patient in the first transmission ?generation? in the first cluster discovered ? shared a takeout meal eaten from common serving dishes with two family members of the deceased at their home. The meal lasted about three hours.
At the funeral, Patient A1.1 hugged the friends who had been at the dinner and other family members to ?express condolences.?
Two days later, one of the dinner hosts showed symptoms of the coronavirus. Two days after that, the other host got sick, too. A third family member who had hugged Patient A1.1 at the funeral also got sick.
Sign up for our Coronavirus Updates newsletter to track the outbreak. All stories linked in the newsletter are free to access.
Around the same time, Patient A1.1, who was then still experiencing mild respiratory symptoms, attended a birthday party with nine other people. They hugged and shared food at the three-hour party. Seven of the attendees soon became ill.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/08/funeral-birthday-party-hugs-covid-19/
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Three videos - Watch the last first, and then the first as you scroll through (that is the order they were posted over the week.
http://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/cook-county-prepares-refrigerated-warehouse-as-makeshift-mourge/ (http://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/cook-county-prepares-refrigerated-warehouse-as-makeshift-mourge/)
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The problem is, the exact same thing with hot-spots also happen with the flu to an extent...even with vaccines because the vaccine every year only covers the top couple of strains that the "experts" feel will be most prevalent.
All things on the table, the flu every year will still kill six times more people than this virus. So what are we going to do when flu season starts up this year, shut down everything like they did with this because by CDC stats the flu is more deadly?
Heck, the surgeon general stated that while we absolutely do need to be cautious (and I do agree) and take the best common sense measures we can but cigarette smoking will kill more people in the US this year than the Wuhan virus.
Many experts feel the virus was already here last year before Christmas because of so many folks reporting that they experienced the symptoms while testing negative for the flu. Doctors chalked it up to severe upper respiratory infections.
If that's the case, then we have unknowingly been beneficially building a herd immunity to it the same way we have the flu over the years. I hope that is the case so when a date (based on whatever expert info they base their decisions on) is finally picked for everyone to come out of their hidey-holes there won't be a large spike in new cases for the immune naive. Because just like the flu virus and the common cold, a cure is probably not on the horizon.
So at the end of the day, just like flu season, it is going to have to run its course while we try to lessen the effects on those most at risk.... and hope it doesn't bounce back.
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IIRC they have to start making next year's flu vaccine before this year's flu season starts. It takes time to grow all the viruses, then kill them and make a vaccine out of them. A year ago no one knew the COVID-19 virus, SARS-CoV-2, even existed. It seems to be closely related to the SARS-CoV virus that caused SARS, but that hasn't been seen in 17 years or so.
My guess is that SARS-CoV or a similar virus had hot kinky sex with another virus, (okay, I know that's not how it works) and exchanged genetic material. Yeah, baby, yeah! A combination of two or more viruses, probably more, was strong enough to survive and replicate. That probably happened in bats since they already have a virus very much like SARS-CoV. Then it mutated until a strain existed that could infect people. However it happened SARS-CoV-2 was born and now, no one knows if COVID-19 will be around forever like the flu, or if it will die out.
When I first started reading about COVID-19, they compared last year's flu in the U.S. to COVID-19 in Wuhan. They said at that time it looked like the infection rate was twice as high as it was for the flu, so a lot more people were likely to get it. And the mortality rate for people in my age group was twice as high as it was for the flu. Twice as infectious x twice as lethal = 4 times as deadly as the flu for people my age. But we aren't living in Wuhan, and most of us are taking at least some kind of precautions.
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Yeah. Some precautions do work more effectively than others.
While you can't eliminate any virus, especially by letting 60% of the population do business as normal while telling the other 40% to stay home unless necessary (everyone has a different aspect of necessary, and there are a;so the idiots) you absolutely can slow some of the spread.
The same common sense precautions like above average hand washing and sanitizing along with picking better times to shop in the usually more populated stores would also work for the spread of flu, strep, cold and many other things if people did it all the time and not just when told to. Maybe we could reduce the flu deaths from nearly 60k some years. A simple fact of the matter with covid is that a very high percentage of the folks who have died of covid had underlying comorbidities and would have died from the flu and some from the common cold.
Many people are going foolishly overboard with PPE and understand nothing about cross-contamination also. I see people wearing gloves and masks but constantly touching things and then the mask and personal belongings. I saw a guy come out of the grocery store with gloves and mask on carrying several bags. When he got to the truck, he unlocked it handling his keys, touched three of four door handles, grabbed the steering wheel, touched multiple surfaces inside the truck all while still wearing the contaminated gloves from being inside the store. He'd have been better off just sanitizing several times inside and outside the store. Everything he touched with the gloved hands was now on everything he touched outside.
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I treat everything and anybody as contaminated as I did working 11 years in nuclear power!
I am also trained to quantify and fit test respiratory equipment.
Most are clueless! A surgical mask does NOTHING to protect the wearer. It is designed to prevent contamination of a wound or surgical site...
Until we ALL have access to N95 type protection, wearing a surgical mask just prevents the wearer from spewing droplets on others, just as the CDC has instructed. I?ve been wearing one due to a smokers cough when I?m forced to enter the market so I do not frighten folks when I cough.
I have plenty of supplies and generally always do, including hand sanitizer.
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I treat everything and anybody as contaminated as I did working 11 years in nuclear power!
I am also trained to quantify and fit test respiratory equipment.
Most are clueless! A surgical mask does NOTHING to protect the wearer. It is designed to prevent contamination of a wound or surgical site...
Until we ALL have access to N95 type protection, wearing a surgical mask just prevents the wearer from spewing droplets on others, just as the CDC has instructed. I?ve been wearing one due to a smokers cough when I?m forced to enter the market so I do not frighten folks when I cough.
I have plenty of supplies and generally always do, including hand sanitizer.
Yep.
We had to go get medications and I saw a man and woman wearing masks while driving down the street in their car. I'm like, if this virus comes out of the bushes and goes through the A/C system to get you, we're all dead.
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As some one that is biological weapons trained, worked on nuke plants and has spent more time in negative air then out of it working... the way people use gloves and masks while out makes me cringe. I keep telling people, gloves are only as good as the user. Very few get it.
I have been going too the misses work 2-3 x a week for the last month to bring her food/ change of clothes as things are pretty nuts right now. Even the trained " professionals" that are in charge of doing health screenings( not just techs, but rn and mds) are doing so many things wrong its scary. Last week i watched a md making notations on a thier clip board, i watched him neatly take off his gloves, wash his hands very well, then remove and clean his glasses. I was happy he was doing everything right. Then i watched him pick up his clip board and carry it across the room to get a new pair of gloves. ;D.
I got a dirty look from him as i was trying hard to hold in the laughter. He was the guy supervising others to make sure they were doing the right thing.
On the plus side i know the misses co workers are jealous as all hell that she is getting hot home made meals/ what ever ahe needs delivered and they can not get thier significant others to come with in a mile of the place.
I am a realist, i know that out side of not haveing any contact with her and her moving out, i am exposed thru her. So me going there does very little too increase my exposure risks. I am not worried in the least.
Ps the movment to get the " heroes" student loans paid off needs to stop. They signed up for all of this, deal with it. Even the misses that has more than double the student loans of the average doc agrees with me amd she would benfit more than most.
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Gloves, holding cell phones, mask on....
Idiotic...
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Gloves, holding cell phones, mask on....
Idiotic...
I see this a lot.
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Shouldnt that be in the classic joke thread?
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Yes, I see similar occurrences. I really don't understand how people can do something like that...I mean really. What kind of cognitive dissidence is an action like that?
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The last time I went to the grocery store they had all the aisles marked for one-way traffic. I screwed up once or twice, but at least I was trying. They already told people to stay 6' or 2 cart lengths apart, then they cut the number of customers allowed in the store at a time to 1/2 of its holding capacity. I think they said it's one person per 120 square feet now. I had more room to myself than that part of the time, but other times, me and other people passed each other going the same or opposite directions. Fingers crossed. N95 dust mask, do your thing. Some people were standing around talking, going the wrong way, standing in the way looking at something like they're in their own little world, you know, the typical things you'd expect of idiots.
As of 10 a.m. April 13, 2020, there have been 988 confirmed COVID-19 cases in Genesee County. 404 cases, 40.9% of the total, are in the city Flint where I live, and 116, 11.7%, are in Flint TWP, which I'm about a mile away from. So the majority of cases in the county are right here. No surprise there since Flint is the biggest city and the county seat, and Flint TWP is full of shopping malls and other stores, restaurants, and and all kinds of doctors offices. The majority of people in the city go there for at least one of those on occasion. Out of 2 dozen ZIP codes in the county, including "other", my ZIP code is the 4th worst, with 96 cases, making up 9.6% of the total. The worst ZIP code covers the entire city of Grand Blanc with 145 cases, 14.7% of the total. The only other areas in the county that are worse than mine are 2 more ZIP codes in the city of Flint, with 131 and 102 cases. 4 ZIP codes have <5 cases each and could be 0 for all I know. And there have been 75 deaths in the county so far, mostly old geezers. Age range 34-97 years, average age 71 years, median age 76 years. 54% of the overall cases are females but 63% of the deaths were males. COVID-19 is sexist and should be severely punished.
A bunch of black people, including the mayor of Flint, think they're all entitled to special treatment because COVID-19 is especially hard on them. Black or African American = 44% of the overall cases and 51% of the deaths in the county. Caucasian = 31% of the cases and 37% of the deaths, mostly in the city of Flint. The 2010 United States Census said the population of the city was 56.6% African American and only 37.4% White. So are they really getting hit that hard? Or are they just raising a fuss like they do because there are too many black criminals in prison?
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I forgot to mention there was $1,200 from the IRS in my savings account when I first checked my email Monday. If you hear about a man showing off his stimulus package in public, it's not me. I like to keep it in my pants.
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At least one store here has gone to one-way aisles - not that most people are so clueless that they are oblivious. In one case, what we wanted (bread) was maybe 10 feet inside the one-way aisle in our favor - but we couldn't get down that aisle cuz there were 2 - count 'em - 2 old geezers blocking the aisle, going the wrong way no less.
Masks - N95 masks only help a little. They filter down to 3-5 microns IIRC, and the virus is .125+/- microns. It will stop some, but not all. Still, I wear one when I go out.
I love watching the news if only because of the way people are handling their PPEs. There was one shot where healthcare workers were being feted and applauded, and they were all outside (!!!) in their PPEs, including one guy who had a mask on - over his mouth only. Left his nose completely uncovered.
Another shot from Chicago showing a guy with an arctic mask on. Neoprene (for warmth) and nose covered but with the nostrils exposed, i.e., wide open. Guess you use what you got.
Lastly, I have seen numerous posts from people railing that people were going from store to store with the same PPEs gloves on. Why, didn't you know, that's how you spread germs????
I get sniped at when I point out that:
1. The gloves are to protect me, not you.
2. The gloves don't matter since they are not scrubbing their hair before going to another store, changing their clothes, sanitizing their glasses, etc. So the viruses - if any - are being transported on things other than just the gloves.
Given the abuse, misuse and flat-out lies about numbers, the MSM's flagrant fear-mongering (which will be conveniently forgotten when this settles down, the economy tanks and the attacks on Trump ramp up), the abysmal science (remember the early "scientific" models that predicted 500,000 dead in the US alone?), and the sheer stupidity of the masses ("Aaaaaand, just like that, everyone is an infectious disease/immunology/PPE/whatever expert because - internet"), we are in for a bit of a rocky ride in the future.
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Probably just a coincidence
U.S. Embassy officials warned in January 2018 about inadequate safety at the Wuhan Institute of Virology lab and passed on information about scientists conducting risky research on coronavirus from bats, The Washington Post reported Tuesday.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/state-department-cables-coronavirus-origin-chinese-lab-bats
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Shouldnt that be in the classic joke thread?
All things considered topically, probably fits well in both areas. 8)
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For those interested:
I was watching a tv series "Counterpart". Started Season 1 Episode 1 on 12/10/2017
I am watching episode 3..so probably around Jan 2018.
The scene, somewhat unrelated to the main plot, is of German kids playing in winter as part of a health advisory telling parents to have their kids be watchful of playmates who might be sick.
The kids are playing some game where you kick the ball and one kid starts coughing....the other kids back away, pull cloth masks from there pockets and put them in place, hooking them over their ears...
I just put it together...that Health Advisory from Germany...and I've noticed that the Corona statistics for Germany have been excellent...way below everyone I see for infections and death per population...they been doing it right all along.
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There is a lot of talk about Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) and its purpose. I sense that it is considered one way or the other: Protect me from you vs. Protect you from me. PPE use is a two way street, and it is useless if not used correctly.
In the earliest days of PPE it was really nothing more than about keeping clean. Wearing aprons, just like a baker or cook wore an apron to protect their fine clothes from flour and grease. Next we add in more layers, and we get a mixture of keeping our clothes clean, and we start to protect the other person from us. This was the addition of gloves and masks. Today, we are still trying to protect the other person, but the main driving force, and where the category labeled PPE is to protect me from you.
When talking Personal Protective Equipment it is all about protecting the wearer from the environment around them. PPE is also 10% having the proper gear, and 90% using it properly. If you are going to use PPE to protect yourself it is more important how you handle it before and after you use it, how you don and doff it is critical, how you act while wearing it can negate its use all together, and what you do with it (handle the waste) can be more dangerous than not wearing it at all.
Under the OSHA Bloodborne Pathogen Rule, those required to use PPE must take annual training. These are people that wear the gear daily. When you offer this training it is amazing to see the bad habits and how hard it is to correct them with annual training. Then, I watch people that think it is just about slapping the stuff on, and they will be safe.
My professional opinion of PPE during this time:
Facemasks - Use them, but learn how to use them correctly. Also, they are one time use, so put one on as you exit your car at the store or office, take it off before you get back in your car. Next stop, repeat. If you are using disposable, but them into a plastic bag for safe disposal. If you are wearing cloth/reusable, place them in a plastic bag, and wash in hot water with disinfecting detergent and/or bleach before next use.
Gloves - The way nearly everyone is using them, quit wasting your money. You are actually in more danger the way you are using them then if you leave them off - Even if you aren't using sanitizer or washing.
Clothing - I treat the outside world like I used to treat the funeral home prep room. If I must go to the store or dr's office, when I come home, the clothes I am wearing come off and are either placed directly into the washing machine or are left in a dedicated basket in the garage - They are not worn in and around the house.
Handwashing - I am fortunate to have a laundry room two steps in from the garage door, and I have a bathroom just a few steps the other direction from the door. When entering the house, clothes off and before clean clothes are put on, all skin that was exposed during the excursion is washed.
Keep in mind that everything you expose to the outside world is being carried, and if you don't change clothes and wash up, you are just transferring everything that you were exposed to in the store or office you visited to your home and family.
This may seem like overkill. I have not formed a full opinion on how much we are being played for suckers in this whole mess. However, my wife is considered severely at risk due to preexisting conditions, so I am going to error on the side of caution. I have a friend who is a physician, and he minored in statististic (too many esses and tees to get that word correct) analysis. He tracks the real numbers through the medical field, not the crap we see, and he is pushing the safety side.
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There is a lot of talk about Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) and its purpose. I sense that it is considered one way or the other: Protect me from you vs. Protect you from me. PPE use is a two way street, and it is useless if not used correctly.
In the earliest days of PPE it was really nothing more than about keeping clean. Wearing aprons, just like a baker or cook wore an apron to protect their fine clothes from flour and grease. Next we add in more layers, and we get a mixture of keeping our clothes clean, and we start to protect the other person from us. This was the addition of gloves and masks. Today, we are still trying to protect the other person, but the main driving force, and where the category labeled PPE is to protect me from you.
When talking Personal Protective Equipment it is all about protecting the wearer from the environment around them. PPE is also 10% having the proper gear, and 90% using it properly. If you are going to use PPE to protect yourself it is more important how you handle it before and after you use it, how you don and doff it is critical, how you act while wearing it can negate its use all together, and what you do with it (handle the waste) can be more dangerous than not wearing it at all.
Under the OSHA Bloodborne Pathogen Rule, those required to use PPE must take annual training. These are people that wear the gear daily. When you offer this training it is amazing to see the bad habits and how hard it is to correct them with annual training. Then, I watch people that think it is just about slapping the stuff on, and they will be safe.
My professional opinion of PPE during this time:
Facemasks - Use them, but learn how to use them correctly. Also, they are one time use, so put one on as you exit your car at the store or office, take it off before you get back in your car. Next stop, repeat. If you are using disposable, but them into a plastic bag for safe disposal. If you are wearing cloth/reusable, place them in a plastic bag, and wash in hot water with disinfecting detergent and/or bleach before next use.
Gloves - The way nearly everyone is using them, quit wasting your money. You are actually in more danger the way you are using them then if you leave them off - Even if you aren't using sanitizer or washing.
Clothing - I treat the outside world like I used to treat the funeral home prep room. If I must go to the store or dr's office, when I come home, the clothes I am wearing come off and are either placed directly into the washing machine or are left in a dedicated basket in the garage - They are not worn in and around the house.
Handwashing - I am fortunate to have a laundry room two steps in from the garage door, and I have a bathroom just a few steps the other direction from the door. When entering the house, clothes off and before clean clothes are put on, all skin that was exposed during the excursion is washed.
Keep in mind that everything you expose to the outside world is being carried, and if you don't change clothes and wash up, you are just transferring everything that you were exposed to in the store or office you visited to your home and family.
This may seem like overkill. I have not formed a full opinion on how much we are being played for suckers in this whole mess. However, my wife is considered severely at risk due to preexisting conditions, so I am going to error on the side of caution. I have a friend who is a physician, and he minored in statististic (too many esses and tees to get that word correct) analysis. He tracks the real numbers through the medical field, not the crap we see, and he is pushing the safety side.
Yep.
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Probably just a coincidence
U.S. Embassy officials warned in January 2018 about inadequate safety at the Wuhan Institute of Virology lab and passed on information about scientists conducting risky research on coronavirus from bats, The Washington Post reported Tuesday.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/state-department-cables-coronavirus-origin-chinese-lab-bats
Nope. Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdd7dtDaYmM&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0Z11p2_tUHxzJQYNl1QlXIPtDg-dsaimX7lszztngPYS0VMIsJIL2oaEk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdd7dtDaYmM&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0Z11p2_tUHxzJQYNl1QlXIPtDg-dsaimX7lszztngPYS0VMIsJIL2oaEk)
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Was teasing about the coincidence. Posted on page 3 about the relationship to the bio lab.
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Nope. Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdd7dtDaYmM&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0Z11p2_tUHxzJQYNl1QlXIPtDg-dsaimX7lszztngPYS0VMIsJIL2oaEk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdd7dtDaYmM&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0Z11p2_tUHxzJQYNl1QlXIPtDg-dsaimX7lszztngPYS0VMIsJIL2oaEk)
The Kinks warned us about the Commies back in 1981
It's always the fault of the Russians or the Chinese
Or it could be I'm just being paranoid
'Cause there's a red, under my bed
And there's a little yellow man in my head
Paranoia, the destroyer
Paranoia, the destroyer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5yuCwmf2fk
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Ok...I think I've found the cure for all our Coronavirus concerns!!..
I just drank six shots of Stolichnaya Vodka 40% and my concerns about the whole thing seem to have vanished.
This helped chill them...just add some ice and water to the bowl.
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/043/0/7059208/il_fullxfull.531035900_f8o8.jpg)
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Ok...I think I've found the cure for all our Coronavirus concerns!!..
I just drank six shots of Stolichnaya Vodka 40% and my concerns about the whole thing seem to have vanished.
Seems to work for Pigosi too. ;D
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Well, is everyone enjoying their free 30 day trial of Communism?
I bet the people in Michigan are really having themselves a time of it....
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Well, is everyone enjoying their free 30 day trial of Communism?
I bet the people in Michigan are really having themselves a time of it....
What, you don't like living in the United Soviet States of America? I'm sitting on my butt at home like I do most days, but it sucks not being able to take care of business. I want to take my ATV to the dealer for its first service since it's broken in, but it's not vitally important. Nether is getting new ORV stickers that expire March 31st each year. I would take a gander at the guns at Gander Outdoors and buy my stickers there if I was riding anytime soon. Plus me and my brothers and sister-in-law need to keep cleaning up my mom's house but can't go over there. I wouldn't go anyway since I've been coughing for a month. I can still breathe okay but I won't be running any marathons. Not that anyone would see me running unless I was on fire. UPS, USPS, and FedEx still bring me packages of stuff I buy online, but my mail has gone down to practically nothing. I think they're just tossing a lot of it. I should read the big pile I already have.
P.S. Anyone who doesn't have direct deposit should get some of their money back by check starting sometime next month. It was nice having that $1,200 deposit in my savings with the $90 I had left in the budget.
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What, you don't like living in the United Soviet States of America?
You mean THE NEW AND IMPROVED USSR....er, I mean USSA.
"Just because others have failed doesn't mean it won't work THIS time, I mean we're so much MORE progressive and enthusiastic THIS TIME...... WE CAN DO IT!!"
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
***Too much in the sarcasm department?
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You mean THE NEW AND IMPROVED USSR....er, I mean USSA.
"Just because others have failed doesn't mean it won't work THIS time, I mean we're so much MORE progressive and enthusiastic THIS TIME...... WE CAN DO IT!!"
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
***Too much in the sarcasm department?
Correct. I believe it would be hard to find previous subjects of the "Socialist" movement who were more oblivious to the flaws exposed by previous failures. Totally ignoring damning evidence to this degree is an exceptional trait of the current crop of True Believers.
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Correct. I believe it would be hard to find previous subjects of the "Socialist" movement who were more oblivious to the flaws exposed by previous failures. Totally ignoring damning evidence to this degree is an exceptional trait of the current crop of True Believers.
Well, you know what is sometimes said about folk who keep doing the same thing, in futility, while expecting different results.
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I got an emergency alert message on my cell phone today. The governor extended the stay home, stay safe date until May 15th. At the same time a lot of her old EOs have expired or been rescinded, but they used a different word for it. All of the state parks are still open except one that people from all over the state were going to. They wouldn't the observe social distancing rule, so that park got shut down. You can still go fishing, boating, ATV riding, stay at a vacation property if you have one and things like that as long as you maintain a 6' space from anyone who doesn't live with you. But they'd prefer you don't travel to go do any of those things. Well, most people don't live on ATV trails, or in lakes or state forests, so they would have to travel to get there.
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We got extended to May 30. We knew it was coming, because four govs. got together for a meeting: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, and I can't remember #4, maybe Michigan. Walz in Minnesota announced the extension the next day, within week Wisconsin announced, and Pritzker made his announcement Thursday.
I am filing this right along with what jumbofrank said, that we aren't being careful, so they regulate us. That is how Illinois started back in the middle of March, with the St. Patrick's Day parties.
This isn't fun, but we are getting by, we are using Zoom and messenger, and lots of delivery services. We are saving money too. I filled the pickup with gas in February on the way to the airport for a short trip to Florida, and it still has half a tank, and I filled the car in about the 10th of March, and it hasn't been driven in six weeks. Outside of picking up prescriptions (done drive thru) and hospital and dr office visits, I don't think we have put more than five miles on.
I think we are close to getting over the hump on this one, I hope the secondary outbreak will be small, and then I pray we can move on with a process back to normal.
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We had slightly over a 10% increases in confirmed cases in my county from Thursday to Friday this week. Michigan seemed to be plateauing, but had increases Thursday and Friday also. Although I think they said the percentage of confirmed cases of those tested was falling. More testing is going to show more cases also. I wonder if the increase might be a reflection of Easter weekend family gathering. Timing seems about right, a few days of incubation, a few days for testing and results, and a couple days for new cases to show up in the reports.
I'm taking the whole thing seriously and mostly staying holed up as I most likely am in a higher risk category. Have had several grocery deliveries. My neighbor is a manager at a Michigan based regional superstore chain. I talked to him a few days back when we saw each other outside. I asked him about his health and the employees and stock supplies and availability of items at his store. Supply has been catching up and they are getting most items, including brand name paper products, disinfecting wipes, and hand sanitizer. A couple days later he knocked on my door. He brought me some paper towels, facial tissues, disinfectant wipes, and hand sanitizer. I thanked him for his thoughtfulness. I asked him what I owed him. He replied that I didn't owe him anything and said "I'll bless you with this today". I was so overwhelmed by his thoughtfulness and generosity I cried.
Although I'm taking this seriously, I think our Governor has gone overboard on some of her executive orders.
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One thing that is not hurting is the retail stores that are allowed to stay open.
I spoke with a hs friend last night that manages " problem" stores for home depot in northern ca. He told me pretty much every garden center has had more sales in the last month then they did last year and that shrink is way down. Mainly due to them limiting the stores too 100 people in at a time. So loss prevent can watch people alot better. The store he is at now was one that was having 300k+ in theft a month is now down to about 75k. Which is still a lot, but drasticaly lower than thier average.
He said over all the store profits are up as people are buying less buildimg materials ( which is a few % mark up) and are buying stuff where the profit is huge like paint, garden, home decore and other none building materials. Total sales volume is down, but the store is making more.
He also said that the local counties are already complaining aboit the lack of sales tax revenue, so expect a increase on the next ballot and all " fees" will be going up.
On a more personal note, i have been talking with several engineers about, drawing up plans for my house. I will be doing the floor plan and the elevations( view from the outside) as i use to work for a structural engineering firm and they are very easy for me to do. I just dont have a pe to stamp the engineered drawings.
I keep debating if i want to start a thread about it. Some members may find it intresting, but in the other hand do i really want to broadcast my home to the world. What do you guys think? I am not worried about showing off stuff like hiding places as every criminal worth thier salt already knows where to look.
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I'd really be interested in seeing that work....but just as leery as you about security....
Perhaps you could find a secure site to post the plans and discussion and give the PW out in private messages here? Or send it to email addresses?
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Honestly, not too worried about security, property tax records are public, it would not be hard to figure out where i live if you have even a smallest bit of my personal info. Lets not forget that for at least the last 20 years my name has been on a searchable public data bases (at least 20 contain my name and contact info ) some it will remain on them for 25 years after i closed down that liscense ( ca contractors board for example)
I can think of several places i could do that and would be secure, just not really into having to manage that.
The floor plan and elevations are not exactly security concerns unless some one really wants to come after me... then again for a small fee those could be had at the local building department. As once again, public info.
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I'd be interested in seeing the plans unfold. I like that kind of stuff.
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It sounds good to me too. Time to start a new thread TAB.
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Sounds good...
I expect this will be a good portion of everyone here's Dream House.
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Do it. I would love to get some new ideas for the house we're going to build in Arkansas.
(http://)
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Sounds good...
I expect this will be a good portion of everyone here's Dream House.
Not too sure about that, i am looking at the 1600 ish sqft range + basement. That will remain unfinished at this time. That way if we have a change in our needs we can easily remodel. Its the " barn" that will be large. At least 40x60.
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Do it. I would love to get some new ideas for the house we're going to build in Arkansas.
(http://)
Wow, what a view. I'm imagining how much fun my friends and I would have if we were let loose on terrain like that on our ATVs.
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Ok when i have a chance to sit down and draw something up i will start a new thread. Taking the misses too it for the 1st time in the morning. She has not seen it yet. I want her imput on where i put the house as it will make a huge difference on the floor plan. 9 acres is alot, but its pretty small in the grand theme of things. The lot is 360' wide and about 1100' long. I want to out the house at about 400' mark and the shop at about 700' that
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In Minnesota we had 7.2 acres - Just over 600 x 600.
http://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B059'32.9%22N+95%C2%B000'35.9%22W/@43.9931045,-95.0107235,244m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m9!1m2!2m1!1sRt+2+Box+310+county+road+3,+Mountain+lake+mn!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d43.9924607!4d-95.009982 (http://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B059'32.9%22N+95%C2%B000'35.9%22W/@43.9931045,-95.0107235,244m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m9!1m2!2m1!1sRt+2+Box+310+county+road+3,+Mountain+lake+mn!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d43.9924607!4d-95.009982)
Amazing how small it could get with a house foot print of just over 1300 ft2, a 40x72 shed, 32x62 shed, 24x32 building, couple barns, and some grain storage.
The two things that are more important than the amount of space are what is close, and what amenities the property has (trees and character.
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In Minnesota we had 7.2 acres - Just over 600 x 600.
http://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B059'32.9%22N+95%C2%B000'35.9%22W/@43.9931045,-95.0107235,244m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m9!1m2!2m1!1sRt+2+Box+310+county+road+3,+Mountain+lake+mn!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d43.9924607!4d-95.009982 (http://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B059'32.9%22N+95%C2%B000'35.9%22W/@43.9931045,-95.0107235,244m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m9!1m2!2m1!1sRt+2+Box+310+county+road+3,+Mountain+lake+mn!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d43.9924607!4d-95.009982)
Amazing how small it could get with a house foot print of just over 1300 ft2, a 40x72 shed, 32x62 shed, 24x32 building, couple barns, and some grain storage.
The two things that are more important than the amount of space are what is close, and what amenities the property has (trees and character.
Ranchers to west, east and south. The north has a small group of homes on 10 acre lots sold as " horse porperty " also know as you get a white painted 3 rail fence around your porperty and the price quadruples. Normally that would be a deal breaker, but the are 300' lower in elevation and the other side of the hill. So i can not see them. I would have liked to buy the parcel next to me, but it was add another zero in price jump. they were not interested in sub dividing anything smaller than a section( 640 arce aka 1 square mile) i tried 40 acres, but. No dice. Even offered them a the % of the cost and i would pay for the survey and the fence. I want at least a 40x60 shop.
I hope this will be the forever place, but i doubt it. If the misses gets promoted she could be transfered some place else.
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When my dad divided some property between me and my brothers I told him I wanted 2 acres. So he kicked me in the balls and said, "There, now ya got 2 achers."
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Well good news, the misses picked the spot i wanted too put the house on the property with out me saying a word. Now i can start working on plans
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I think I posted this Google Map before, but if not, here it is. This is the site of Camp Raco, the first CCC camp in the state of Michigan. Nazi POWs were housed here and some other CCC camps during WWII, 1,098 POWs altogether. And 80 extremely disruptive and destructive conscientious objectors that were kicked out of other camps. "Their jobs were to help the Seney National Wildlife Refuge. Instead, they destroyed property, threatened the supervisors, polluted the water and stopped those who attempted to work. However, these men were allowed to attend movies, buy alcohol or meet up with girls in nearby Manistique." "Across the United States, there were about 375,000 German POWs at more than 655 camps. But despite these staggering numbers, sixty years after the fact, the story of their captivity remains largely untold." So some guy made a documentary about it that aired on PBS in 2004. I'll be looking for it online but may end up buying it.
My dad and some of his brothers and friends all went in on a piece of property just south of the CCC camp down the two track trails. If you scroll down to Clear Creek, the cabin sits on the edge of the ridge above it but I can never find it. I think it's just a bad angle for the satellite with so many trees. They each paid 1/8 of the taxes and had full use of the 80 acre property and cabin they built. My dad bought some of the other guys' shares later in their lives, and had some willed to him. Eventually he owned it all and divided ownership in thirds between me and my brothers. Thankfully he didn't actually give me two achers. Any time I got off work for holidays my older brother also got off since we both worked for GM. And using up to half of my vacation time during changeover each summer was mandatory. So if I went to the cabin my brother and his family were there too. Sometimes my younger brother went the same time we did, and my dad stayed there whenever he wanted to. There were 4 full-size beds in the cabin, and on one vacation everyone had a bed to sleep in except me. I had to sleep on the floor with my brother's dog for a week or two, or whatever it was. That s**t got old in a hurry, and since I couldn't get any real use out of the property I sold my share to my older brother. That would be a great place to self isolate. The only time you would see another person would be when you went to The Soo for groceries or gas.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/46%C2%B022'00.9%22N+84%C2%B044'23.1%22W/@46.3668802,-84.7397176,49m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!1m7!3m6!1s0x4d49e08d3290ab43:0x462cc627782dd8f0!2sRaco,+MI+49715!3b1!8m2!3d46.3755748!4d-84.7228352!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d46.3669077!4d-84.7397345
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Well good news, the misses picked the spot i wanted too put the house on the property with out me saying a word. Now i can start working on plans
Good deal. I am interested in the basement ideas you employ since I've never built one or had one. I'm still going to call about the metal building one day when I get closer to building one. I have some dozer work starting in a couple of weeks. One of the projects is to cut down, level and fill a place for a metal building and give it at least 6 months to settle.
Wow, what a view. I'm imagining how much fun my friends and I would have if we were let loose on terrain like that on our ATVs.
It's Ozark National Forest. They have restricted trails for ATV's. I'm fortunate it borders most of the property. I'm building on that slope with that view...the barn on the side is getting knocked down since it's inside part of the house footprint. Whenever I get that far on down the road...
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I would ride around in circles as long as I spent half the time going uphill. Most of the good hill climbs in Michigan are illegal and they're not worth risking a fine for. The trails aren't very hilly but sometimes I see hills next to the trail I'd like to tackle. Oh, well.
I got good news in my email an hour or two ago. I'm positively negative for COVID-19. :) I had a doctor's appointment over the phone Thursday and she told me where to get tested because I still have symptoms. Friday morning I went to my drive up test appointment at a Rite Aid in the suburbs and swabbed my nose for them to test. While I was doing that I got a message from Pulmonary Associates saying to call them after 8:30 Monday to set up an appointment. My doctor thinks I have bronchitis but it doesn't feel or sound like the bronchitis I had when I was the only one of four people working together who didn't smoke all day. The good news is I only have to drive 1.5 miles to see one of the 9 pulmonologists at this place, and I think I can even pronounce a few of their names. I have to go right past my preferred hospital on the way there. One of the good things about living where I do is being within walking distance of a hospital, but I had to call an ambulance once.
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Do it. I would love to get some new ideas for the house we're going to build in Arkansas.
(http://)
Nice view Rastus.
I hope to escape to the Big North Woods, or at least out to the country in a year or two. I want a place with a small shop where I can pee off the front porch and shoot off the back porch with no neighbors close enough to be cranky about.
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<snip>
I want a place with a small shop where I can pee off the front porch and shoot off the back porch with no neighbors close enough to be cranky about.
Exactly. I'm there....finally.
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I called the pulmonologists' office and my doctor only referred me there for a sleep study. I could make an appointment to talk to one of the doctors over the phone, but why bother? They may start seeing people in the sleep lab in June. Or maybe not until fall, they don't know. Some of my neighbors and a bunch of their friends finally quit partying around 12:30 am. They were at it for hours and hours. Not a lot of social distancing among that bunch of urban blacks, but if they get sick, they'll be the ones complaining about how COVID-19 picks on them unfairly.
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I went to the store to use some digital coupons because it was the last day they were good. There are still people going the wrong way down the one way aisles whenever I go. I should start coughing every time I walk past them. It's not like I would have to try very hard.
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There is a lot to think about through this process. Michael Bane has been one who has talked about this and the possible consequences. This weekend I went to get tested - A requirement to return to the office rather than working from home.
As I sat in line at the testing center I had several thoughts, and not many good.
Driver thru center opens at 0800, and they issue 750 tests per day
Arrive at 0540 (I was car 84 in line)
At 0755 the National Guard starts the prep of cars
Phone numbers of each person receiving the test written on their window
Number of people being tested written on the window
Information sheets and instructions handed to occupants
At next station Driver License is held against the glass and all information is recorded
In the tent (six cars at a time through the tent)
You are given detailed instructions on how to administer the test
Swab is passed through the window
Administer test on yourself (swab up nose, swirl, hold, other nostril, repeat)
Pass swab back out to soldier
0904 Depart test center
Hundreds of vehicles all lined up in a lane marked by cones and barricades. Little Lemmings doing the responsible thing for society. As I sat there I had visions of rail cars, sealed concrete buildings, and big ovens.
The other day I was sent a photo from a friend. It was a tripod with a giant copper cauldron suspended over a camp fire. There were three couples in the pot. The caption was about Social Scientists discussing how to convince society it was for their own good.
So many questions as to what is appropriate, what is stupid, how does the disease work in terms of transmission and immunity, are we curbing its power and slowing it, or are we just putting off the reality that must be faced. I don't know the answers, and nobody does - Including the idiots in the media more intent on destroying certain people while promoting others.
Of all the questions over this mess we are in what I do know is that crisis brings out the stupid in society. From those that respond in irrational manor, to those who follow and obey without a thought ... I wonder what the response of the National Guard and FEMA is if you go through the entire line, reach the tent, and then say "No thank you" to the Kool Aid"
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Be a good citizen. Big Brother loves you....don't you know that? Big Brother wants nothing but the best for you. See Michigan and Maine...those loving governors want nothing but the best for you....don't you see that? What Michigan and Maine are doing is well loved by all the good citizens. You should be happy Big Brother wants to help you...from Big Brother all good things come. Big Brother will get you food, a place to live and provide you with enough money so that you can live well...be appreciative. You can even have a free phone...everything from Big Brother is free...don't you know that?
Thoughts like you expressed are dangerous...reject that foolish independence streak. You are part of the greater good....don't you know that?
Share that cauldron picture and quit talking about it....
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COVID 19 is a crock of BS. The true numbers are not very different from normal flu .
Are you "men" capable of making your own decisions?
Or are you sheep, un able to survive with out instructions from CNN ?
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I hope that we, and I mean US as in the United States, have learned at least one important lesson from this. Make stuff in the US again. I hope that our politicians can put their petty bickering aside long enough to realize that a plan needs to be developed and implemented to manufacture critical supplies and materials domestically. America based manufacturing is critical.
So what is the end game for Corona Virus and Covid 19? Its going to be with us for a long time. Years? Second wave? (In my opinion, Yes!) Continuing infections and fatalities. When and how do we reengage? What will the new normal be? Will we ever get back to the old normal? Us old geezers and old hags, being more vulnerable, as well as other vulnerable persons, will likely have a different path forward than others. I've been reading a series of articles by Amy Rogers, MD, PhD, a microbiologist, educator, journalist, writer, and speaker. She has a series of articles (4 at this time) relating to the end game. The information in articles make a lot of logical sense to me, and most likely not what we are hearing elsewhere. I believe this is the path forward that will transpire.
Stay safe, stay strapped, stay courageous, stay strong.
Amy Rogers:
https://www.amyrogers.com/amys-blog/
Links to some end game articles by Amy Rogers:
https://www.amyrogers.com/endgame/
https://www.amyrogers.com/social-distancing-wont-save-us/
https://www.amyrogers.com/endgame-3-herd-immunity/
https://www.amyrogers.com/endgame-4-guiding-principles/
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They haven't learned the lessons from previous epidemics, I don't see them learning any thing from this one other than they are a bunch of obedient little sheep.
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Putting all of the government control, and the screaming for more obedience to government control, aside, I am most frustrated by the ignoring of the rolling shortages and the lack of preparation as advised by FEMA over the last decade.
For years people have made fun of "preppers." As we see shortages of different needed items and staples, where is the ridicule of those that lived on the European model - Daily shopping for that day's needs.
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The ignorant A holes act like this never happened before because they've been protected for a 100 years by the same healthcare system they expect to keep them alive for free.
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The ignorant A holes act like this never happened before because they've been protected for a 100 years by the same healthcare system they expect to keep them alive for free.
My younger son calls folks like that helpless "titty-babies"...... ;D
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I keep reminding, attempting to remind, folks that we have been through the end of the world many times. Our most well known include Small Pox (when we shot people, and burned their bodies in their homes with all of their possessions - I for going back to this approach), the Spanish Flu, Polio, Measles, Swine Flu, Avian Flu, HIV/AIDS, and MERSA. Just to name a few from the last one and a half centuries. In each of these cases it was the end of the world, and things will never be the same again. Guess what - WE RECOVERED AND ADVANCED!
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The majority of folks these days are not prepared for calamity of any type.
Like my great-grandpappy said, "I might die of the pox, but I ain't gonna starve."
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That's exactly my point. This isn't a "calamity".
It's just a thing.
And it used to be a regular, predictable "thing".
The reason Congress recesses in August is because that was Yellow Fever season.
We have all the laws we need . They have been in place since before there was an America.
But no one remembers them.
The item I'm most familiar with is the Cruise ships, where were the Quarantine areas every port used to have ?
For that matter, where were the Quarantine pennants the ships should be flying ?
You are wasting your time discussing the virus. You should be dragging liberals out and hanging them for treason and incompetence.
Truthfully I could almost overlook their treson, but the incompetence is simply unacceptable.
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Tom, Remember when this whole thing was hitting our shores, and they were quarantining passengers, both on the ships and off? Remember the uproar about how dangerous, horrible, inhumane it was? That is why we don't quarantine anymore. Nobody cares enough!
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It was the whole purpose of Ellis Island.
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Not THAT'S slogan for today:
"Where is Ellis Island now that we really need it!"
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;D
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<snip>
For years people have made fun of "preppers." As we see shortages of different needed items and staples, where is the ridicule of those that lived on the European model - Daily shopping for that day's needs.
Ridicule. I like that the ideal of ridiculing people not prepared. Turnabout is fair play....
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Putting all of the government control, and the screaming for more obedience to government control, aside, I am most frustrated by the ignoring of the rolling shortages and the lack of preparation as advised by FEMA over the last decade.
For years people have made fun of "preppers." As we see shortages of different needed items and staples, where is the ridicule of those that lived on the European model - Daily shopping for that day's needs.
Some people never learn.
The Ants & the Grasshopper by Aesop
One bright day in late autumn a family of Ants were bustling about in the warm sunshine, drying out the grain they had stored up during the summer, when a starving Grasshopper, his fiddle under his arm, came up and humbly begged for a bite to eat.
“What!” cried the Ants in surprise, “haven’t you stored anything away for the winter? What in the world were you doing all last summer?”
“I didn’t have time to store up any food,” whined the Grasshopper; “I was so busy making music that before I knew it the summer was gone.”
The Ants shrugged their shoulders in disgust.
“Making music, were you?” they cried. “Very well; now dance!” And they turned their backs on the Grasshopper and went on with their work.
Moral: There’s a time for prepping and a time for play.
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So, just what are you going to "Prep" for ?
The BS virus ?
The alleged economic impact of letting the State Govt ground you for being a nasty Trump supporter ?
Or the revolution that should have happened 20 years ago ?
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Some people never learn.
The Ants & the Grasshopper by Aesop
One bright day in late autumn a family of Ants were bustling about in the warm sunshine, drying out the grain they had stored up during the summer, when a starving Grasshopper, his fiddle under his arm, came up and humbly begged for a bite to eat.
“What!” cried the Ants in surprise, “haven’t you stored anything away for the winter? What in the world were you doing all last summer?”
“I didn’t have time to store up any food,” whined the Grasshopper; “I was so busy making music that before I knew it the summer was gone.”
The Ants shrugged their shoulders in disgust.
“Making music, were you?” they cried. “Very well; now dance!” And they turned their backs on the Grasshopper and went on with their work.
Moral: There’s a time for prepping and a time for play.
I was thinking about common sense like the Ant and the Grasshopper last night - Distracted while trying to read something else. This morning's devotional was the Proverb about the man who sets his hand to the plow will eat (the positive way of saying that if you don't work and prepare you aren't provided for). These two go together as a part of a much larger mindset. How many schools, organizations and families mentor these concepts anymore?
When I gave up on my book last evening, I switched to some backwood stories - Foxfire. With our urbanization, and the spread of the urban mindset to the rural areas, how many have the basic knowledge to survive "off the grid?
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So, just what are you going to "Prep" for ?
The BS virus ?
The alleged economic impact of letting the State Govt ground you for being a nasty Trump supporter ?
Or the revolution that should have happened 20 years ago ?
Does it matter what the trigger is? When people panic, government over reacts or takes advantage of, or the system breaks, the results are the same - We need food, shelter, and clothing, we need different levels of medical items that vary based on your person situation, we need levels of security, and we need a plan (think a family plan in case of tornado, house fire, or intruder).
We can't be certain of what we are planning for, but all emergencies have certain things in common. We have vital daily needs that do not change based on where we are or where we need to flee to.
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Exactly. Prep for whatever comes our way.
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So, just what are you going to "Prep" for ?
The BS virus ?
The alleged economic impact of letting the State Govt ground you for being a nasty Trump supporter ?
Or the revolution that should have happened 20 years ago ?
I'm prepping to defend against people trying to take my toilet paper. That's why I bought more ammo. ;) I think this virus will likely be with us forever like the flu and people had better get used to it, sooner rather than later. They may have a vaccine for it in 2022 but it's already mutated, so even if they do make a vaccine it might not do any good.
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I was thinking about common sense like the Ant and the Grasshopper last night - Distracted while trying to read something else. This morning's devotional was the Proverb about the man who sets his hand to the plow will eat (the positive way of saying that if you don't work and prepare you aren't provided for). These two go together as a part of a much larger mindset. How many schools, organizations and families mentor these concepts anymore?
When I gave up on my book last evening, I switched to some backwood stories - Foxfire. With our urbanization, and the spread of the urban mindset to the rural areas, how many have the basic knowledge to survive "off the grid?
It seems like most people aren't taught much of anything anymore, by their parents, schools, or anyone else. One of my roommates in the army had some Foxfire books and it looked like they all had a lot of good information. There were 7 books back then but even more now. They covered home remedies, foraging, and all kinds of different subjects. A lot of stuff in them might help keep you alive and healthy if TSHTF.
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Rastus, Thanks I am up in Bartlesville and hadn't heard about that.
Are people up your way tired of this isolation thingey?
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We just finished phase 1 starting phase 2. Some restaurants have opened dinning rooms, Osage casinos have opened. We just opened the Boy Scout Camp I work at to small group camping with some restrictions.
Ranger Dave
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I was in Russellville, Ark., yesterday. They have opened the restaurants but the seating has space between tables...looks kinda weird but I guess it works. Went to the farmer's co-op and picked up some wire...no problem with coronamona their either.
I see where Colorado revised down the deaths because people who tested with coronamona antibodies actually died from something else. I suspect all the number in the US need to be revised down 20% or so.
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I was in Russellville, Ark., yesterday. They have opened the restaurants but you the seating has space between tables...looks kinda weird but I guess it works. Went to the farmer's co-op and picked up some wire...no problem with coronamona their either.
I see where Colorado revised down the deaths because people who tested with coronamona antibodies actually died from something else. I suspect all the number in the US need to be revised down 20% or so.
Brazil on march magicly curred all tb and yellow fever infections of which they have ~ 300k total of a year... guess what they all had instead.
Even places in the us if you have any respiratory infection you are declared covid 19. Its bs. My state didnt do most of the shit and it was only people doing it by choice... little under 7k confirmed and 77 dead thats out of 3.2 million. So a infected rate of 0.2% wow so high. A fatal rate of 1.1% i am not worried
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IIRC most of the deaths TAB mentioned were in "Care facilities" because some workers were positive.
I have seen several stories that the numbers need to be cut 50%.
The thing that drives me crazy is that even the inflated numbers never justified the insane hype.
4 million sounds like a lot, but it's out of 8 freaking billion !
It's the flip side of what Stalin said "Kill one man it's a crime, Kill a million men it's a statistic".
People can visualize 1 or 2 dead people, like in a car crash, but they can't get their heads around more, hundred, million, billion, it all just registers as many, many, with no real perspective.
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NRA show - cancelled
Vacation (where I should be right now) - cancelled
Royal Family Kids Camp - cancelled
Weekend in NYC later this year - TBD
I’m saving a lot of vacation time this year!
Look at me making lemonade!
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Is it "USE IT OR LOSE IT " ?
Or can you take the money instead ?
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Is it "USE IT OR LOSE IT " ?
Or can you take the money instead ?
It differs from year to year. Usually we can roll over a certain amount to the next year or sell it back. One year they bought vacation back at double time. That was nice. I have enough right now to take December off and have some left over.
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Strange times require creative solutions.
Seven days ago this afternoon, Thursday May 14th, my Mother-In-Law died. We have been waiting as dementia has taken her over the past years. Ninety-Five years, with most of the last decade in some sort of care facility.
How do you hold a memorable and fitting service for a person who not only volunteered in her church, but served as Church Secretary for 15 years during this crap?
Due to my history as a taxidermist, I pay attention to what funeral homes are doing. I helped my wife's family switch from one funeral home to another that provided live streaming of the service. We moved the service to graveside - Expanded committal/abbreviated full funeral. I knew of some technology that was available through a friend, and asked the funeral director about it. So, we also broadcast the service over low power FM - 1/4 - 1/2 mile range. Those who couldn't make it could watch the service live on Facebook, and it will remain on there for future watching. Those that came stayed in their vehicles at the cemetery and listened on 99.9 on their car radios.
Seven immediate family, a sound tech, two pastors, and two funeral directors under the tent, and about 50 people in their vehicles. That is about what we would have had normally in a church - Outliving your family and friends, and when none of the immediate family lives in the community anymore, will do that to attendance. A friend and former neighbor of ours invited us out to their farm for a meal, and we had a great time.
This COVID crap sucks, but we need to not give in to the hate, pessimism, fear or sorrow. Grab your bootstraps and big boy pants, pull them up, and take on the challenge.
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Strange times require creative solutions.
Seven days ago this afternoon, Thursday May 14th, my Mother-In-Law died. We have been waiting as dementia has taken her over the past years. Ninety-Five years, with most of the last decade in some sort of care facility.
How do you hold a memorable and fitting service for a person who not only volunteered in her church, but served as Church Secretary for 15 years during this crap?
Due to my history as a taxidermist, I pay attention to what funeral homes are doing. I helped my wife's family switch from one funeral home to another that provided live streaming of the service. We moved the service to graveside - Expanded committal/abbreviated full funeral. I knew of some technology that was available through a friend, and asked the funeral director about it. So, we also broadcast the service over low power FM - 1/4 - 1/2 mile range. Those who couldn't make it could watch the service live on Facebook, and it will remain on there for future watching. Those that came stayed in their vehicles at the cemetery and listened on 99.9 on their car radios.
Seven immediate family, a sound tech, two pastors, and two funeral directors under the tent, and about 50 people in their vehicles. That is about what we would have had normally in a church - Outliving your family and friends, and when none of the immediate family lives in the community anymore, will do that to attendance. A friend and former neighbor of ours invited us out to their farm for a meal, and we had a great time.
This COVID crap sucks, but we need to not give in to the hate, pessimism, fear or sorrow. Grab your bootstraps and big boy pants, pull them up, and take on the challenge.
jewish wake in about 2 months.
A jewish wake is where every one gets toegther and tells funny/ memorable stories about the person.
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Are people up your way tired of this isolation thingey?
Around here It's dying out. Not that it was ever that big of a deal in the first place. A few are wearing masks, but not that many. Boat launch ramps are backed up 70+ boats deep on the weekends. Mostly coming from California, where they're sick and tired of being told what to do by the communists they elected. They did close our shotgun ranges, which sucked. They're opened now, but it's getting too hot anyway. So my trap guns are in the safe until next Fall. Hopefully this will all be over by then.
I haven't changed anything in my life over all this bull$h!t. I go where I need to, when I need to. It's all gotten too political to even follow. A bit like sitting through a bad comedy act. Liberals want everything locked down as long as possible, to make Trump look as bad as possible. It's not working. Trump 2020 flags are flying everywhere here.
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Yes, it's kind of a PITA .
I refuse to wear a mask, but I can't "Do as I always do", because I didn't do a whole lot before hand . :D
The only inconvenience I've run into is my usual hang out is closed, but they needed to remodel anyway. :-\
I'm living "Free of Fear", but I haven't found away to piss off the libs doing it. :'(
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<snip>
I'm living "Free of Fear", but I haven't found away to piss off the libs doing it. :'(
You aren't trying hard enough!!
Maybe call this mess the Pelosi Pleurisy? That should get their dander up!!! And then laugh at them for being stupid enough to support someone like that....you know....that whole ridicule thingey.
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Oh, I'm trying alright. ;D
Here's a letter the newspaper DIDN'T print.
I have to laugh at you fools.
You think a rag over your face, or a dust mask that you take down to talk is going to protect you ? Ha. Most of you are to dumb to even do that.
You put them under your nose, take them off to talk, and all to often, throw them on the ground when you leave a store.
Did any of you ever see Chemical warfare troops, dealing with a virus ?
Didn’t you see medical personnel dealing with Ebola patients ?
They are in full Bio hazard suits because virus’s are just as contagious through absorption.
If there were a real pandemic most of you would already be dead.
Have a nice day .
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You aren't trying hard enough!!
Maybe call this mess the Pelosi Pleurisy?
I like that....and will use it...... (and I ain't sending you any royalties either). ;D ;D
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Translate the numbers your being scammed with.
The population of the US is 330000,000
1% of that is 33 Million people
6 million cases world wide is still less than 1/6th of 1% of just the US population.
Approximately 2/3rds the population of NYC.
That isn't deaths, That is ALL REPORTED CASES.
It's all a scam
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Translate the numbers your being scammed with.
The population of the US is 330000,000
1% of that is 33 Million people
6 million cases world wide is still less than 1/6th of 1% of just the US population.
Approximately 2/3rds the population of NYC.
That isn't deaths, That is ALL REPORTED CASES.
It's all a scam
Yep.
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Translate the numbers your being scammed with.
The population of the US is 330000,000
1% of that is 33 Million people
6 million cases world wide is still less than 1/6th of 1% of just the US population.
Approximately 2/3rds the population of NYC.
That isn't deaths, That is ALL REPORTED CASES.
It's all a scam
It is called "Spin Doctoring." There are college classes in it. They don't title the course with that name, but it is an education in manipulating the story while still using facts to make it appear different than it is.
An average year in the United States has a death rate of 0.8% - 2,640,000. We are just over 100,000 in by this disease, and screaming that it is the end of the world. Or at least they are. I have been asked, from my experience and former career, what about a typical flu season. Nobody knows how this compares to that. Even Swine and Avian are unknown, because we didn't test for those like this.
Hype and spin, and because of more of what we are learning about outside actors and planted bricks, manipulation by Thought Control (media) and a Puppeteer (whoever is directing the mobs).
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It is called "Spin Doctoring." There are college classes in it. They don't title the course with that name, but it is an education in manipulating the story while still using facts to make it appear different than it is.
They call it "Marketing" because when they started "propaganda techniques" were illegal in the US.
You wouldn't listen to me about Alinsky, but if you ingest "news" of any sort you need to read this book.
https://www.amazon.com/Commandments-Propaganda-Brian-Anse-Patrick-ebook/dp/B005TUDPHG/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=10+commandments+of+propaganda&qid=1591025340&sr=8-1
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Dihydrogen monoxide:
is also known as hydroxyl acid, and is the major component of acid rain.
contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
may cause severe burns.
contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.
Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:
as an industrial solvent and coolant.
in nuclear power plants.
in the production of styrofoam.
as a fire retardant.
in many forms of cruel animal research.
in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.
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Dihydrogen monoxide:
is also known as hydroxyl acid, and is the major component of acid rain.
contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
may cause severe burns.
contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.
Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:
as an industrial solvent and coolant.
in nuclear power plants.
in the production of styrofoam.
as a fire retardant.
in many forms of cruel animal research.
in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.
I saw a video where someone started a petition to ban dihydrogen monoxide, AKA DHMO, and a bunch of people were signing it. They didn't know what it was but it sounded really bad.
Drivers license renewals are sure different since COVID-19. I just got one with my new picture on it 10 days ago. I accidentally crossed my name out too when I crossed out my address and the license number, but that's really me.
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Frank, it was Penn and Teller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw
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I saw that Penn & Teller show but I also saw a guy, a few people maybe, on YouTube collecting signatures on a petition like that. At least I thought I did. The whole Dihydrogen Monoxide parody started in a weekly newspaper in the city of Durand, MI 20 miles from here in 1983. I may have also seen a video of someone else collecting signatures at some point since then, which is what I still think.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_parody
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAI1JAYj53k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIvrxqQ6beI
I think the video just below is what I saw online years before I saw the Penn & Teller show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzg81imQlmQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH2lZgGhhLY
Everybody wants to get in on the act.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d54IrOBC1S0
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And you wonder why I have no respect for these creatures ?
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I can remember when it was only smart kids who went to college.
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I can remember when it was only smart kids who went to college.
Must have been a long time ago. Hell, I went to college! Didn’t finish, but I went.
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Now the smart ones go to vocational school and only the stupid junior communists waste time and money on that crap.
BAC, You hid your age in your profile.
You're no fun ;D
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Now the smart ones go to vocational school and only the stupid junior communists waste time and money on that crap.
BAC, You hid your age in your profile.
You're no fun ;D
I’m as old as my tongue and a little older than my teeth.
I went to trade school in my late 40s, and I now have my journeyman papers and make more money now than ever before.
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Frank, it was Penn and Teller
Don't know if it was included in any of the posts here, but one of my favorite items is:
"Delivered by a hidden underground network of conduits to every chemical and biological weapons lab in the country."
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The Coronavirus finally got around to me. I don’t have it, but I just got furloughed for 2 months from work because of it.
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The Coronavirus finally got around to me. I don’t have it, but I just got furloughed for 2 months from work because of it.
What type of work do you do?
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What type of work do you do?
CNC machinist. Medical products. Elective surgery medical products. Elective surgery is off the menu right now.
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I know quite a few medical personnel. They are at half pay, benefits cut off, etc. because of the chinese communist bioweapon.
Yes. I do think it was intentional planning....they may have released it a bit early or it mutated in ways they did not anticipate. At first it was killing only ethnic minorities in China then it reached out and grabbed them all....
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BAC, It doesn't matter whether it's medical devices, nuke components, or machining assholes in animal crackers.
Parts is parts. ;D
I've never milled assholes in crackers, done the rest though.
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BAC, It doesn't matter whether it's medical devices, nuke components, or machining assholes in animal crackers.
Parts is parts. ;D
I've never milled assholes in crackers, done the rest though.
I know. I’ve done some aerospace, defense, and tool and die stuff. I even helped make some components that went into a rail gun, but medical is where I live. Sucks being furloughed, but now I’ll have time to finish some projects and go out and take photos.
P.S. I believe animal cracker assholes are made by plunge EDM.
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CNC machinist. Medical products.....
You might want to look around at the aerospace machining market. Or any other machining market, such as automotive. As Tom said, parts is parts. And it all pays. It's better than taking 2 months off.
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Yeah, lots of bone docs doing nothing right now. Sadly, the misses is not one of them. She is working her normal shifts, which are thankfull back on days now. That being said, its almost impossible to see her at work now.
The entire thing is over blown. I bet on nov 4th it will all change.
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Just filed for unemployment. Had hoped I'd never have to do that again. At least I got in on the last week and a half of the extra $600 weekly corona money.
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Yeah, lots of bone docs doing nothing right now. Sadly, the misses is not one of them. She is working her normal shifts, which are thankfull back on days now. That being said, its almost impossible to see her at work now.
The entire thing is over blown. I bet on nov 4th it will all change.
Yeah...what's the use of having a pandemic if it isn't gonna help get Mail-In Voting?
But depending upon who is elected, the story will be either "Trump investigated for collusion with China to use Biological Weapon to take over the world!" or "Biden stumbles on cure for Coronavirus"
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The Coronavirus finally got around to me. I don’t have it, but I just got furloughed for 2 months from work because of it.
Aaaaand my furlough has been extended another month.
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This crap has done so much harm to this country.
I know I will need to get the tin foil hat out and wear it after saying this but I do believe if you trace this "virus" back you will find it IS a bioterrorist attack orchestrated by the Chinese with a LOT of help from the existing Demcratic Party meant to create enough turmoil to either remove President Trump through voter fraud or start a real civil war after the elections to overthrough the entire government.
I am 64 years old and I have never seen the country so close to the edge. Yes Tom, I know we are actually already over the edge. The rest of the country just hasn't figured it out yet.
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ar154me,
The part that pisses me off is not only was it a bio attack, but it was an piss poor one. If it weren't for politically motivated media hype we would have forgotten 1 of the mildest flu seasons in years.
This is happening because no one listened to me 10, 20, or 30 years ago.
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ar154me,
The part that pisses me off is not only was it a bio attack, but it was an piss poor one. If it weren't for politically motivated media hype we would have forgotten 1 of the mildest flu seasons in years.
This is happening because no one listened to me 10, 20, or 30 years ago.
Yep!
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What I can't figure out yet, is why the shooting hasn't started yet? Perhaps the Trump supporters are simply too well behaved. This is what it was like here this past Memorial Day Weekend. No rioting. No looting. No fighting. No burning. Just a lot of people having fun. Did any of you see this kind of support for Biden ANYWHERE?... Me neither.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eD4jYgvGDc
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What I can't figure out yet, is why the shooting hasn't started yet?
You and me both. I do know that once it starts, and I feel it will, it will be the bloodiest fighting outside of a third world country ever seen. (IMHO)
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This crap has done so much harm to this country.
I know I will need to get the tin foil hat out and wear it after saying this but I do believe if you trace this "virus" back you will find it IS a bioterrorist attack orchestrated by the Chinese with a LOT of help from the existing Democratic Party meant to create enough turmoil to either remove President Trump through voter fraud or start a real civil war after the elections to overthrow the entire government.
I am 64 years old and I have never seen the country so close to the edge. Yes Tom, I know we are actually already over the edge. The rest of the country just hasn't figured it out yet.
Exactly. We're the same age by the way.
I don't know that it will be much of a civil war to watch. If it is methinks it will be over inside of 2 weeks (assuming the police and National Guard look the other way)...one week if those opposing the communists have some organization and the commonsense to disregard normal law AND calls for a truce. I think AG's and prosecutors and politicians in general will need to look the other way to keep themselves safe...though lawyers do live in their own subculture (bubble) and may think they have control.
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Exactly. We're the same age by the way.
I don't know that it will be much of a civil war to watch. If it is methinks it will be over inside of 2 weeks (assuming the police and National Guard look the other way)...one week if those opposing the communists have some organization and the commonsense to disregard normal law AND calls for a truce. I think AG's and prosecutors and politicians in general will need to look the other way to keep themselves safe...though lawyers do live in their own subculture (bubble) and may think they have control.
Quite possible.
I was thinking this the other day. If a 17 year-old kid with an AR....with minimal training at best (even if he's been shooting for years, at his age he has little practical world experience)... can pop three antifa thugs while running and rolling to avoid injury, think of what a semi-organized or at least motivated group could do (if decent folks ever get motivated by being fed up).
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Trump supporters are waiting for the election landslide to give him a mandate.
Don't underestimate what you will be facing.
You are facing professional revolutionaries who have been doing this shit since 1917.
You are facing US veterans who have the same training we do.
According to Time you are facing Iranian trained terrorists,
According to Geller Report China has been shipping in guns for months.
You might also consider that most General in current service was promoted by Obama
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Trump supporters are waiting for the election landslide to give him a mandate.
Don't underestimate what you will be facing.
You are facing professional revolutionaries who have been doing this shit since 1917.
You are facing US veterans who have the same training we do.
According to Time you are facing Iranian trained terrorists,
According to Geller Report China has been shipping in guns for months.
You might also consider that most General in current service was promoted by Obama
1. Trump election landslide.
2. 6-8 weeks later Democratic governors find just enough mail in votes to throw the election.
3. Chief Justice Roberts sides with the Democrats (because all RINO's are really Democrats who could not be elected with a D by their name in the voting booth.).
4. All hell breaks loose.
I have it on good account that Mitch the Bitch (McConnell) is telling people to vote for Biden. Take this one to the bank. Seriously, my source is impeccable on this.
On the "Don't underestimate front" that Tom brought up add this: "You will not be treated equally or fairly by Democrat prosecutors (lawyers) and Democrat politicians (lawyers). You will not receive due process."
You may be innocent but you are innocent fodder to be demonized, used and abused as desired to achieve Democrat goals. There is no equality, there is no justice with Democrats.
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On the "Don't underestimate front" that Tom brought up add this: "You will not be treated equally or fairly by Democrat prosecutors (lawyers) and Democrat politicians (lawyers). You will not receive due process." You may be innocent but you are innocent fodder to be demonized, used and abused as desired to achieve Democrat goals. There is no equality, there is no justice with Democrats.
That's an automatic given. You've already seen it with the St. Louis couple that was defending their homes with an AR and a handgun, after BLM rioters smashed down their front gate. They never fired a shot. But the liberal, far left, BLACK District Attorney brought both of them up on felony gun charges. They are in the right all the way. But this bitch will make sure they spend well into 6 figures on lawyers proving it in court.
And when she's finished, I can all but guarantee you they will never be allowed to own firearms again. And will be forced to forfeit the one's they currently own. If they haven't had to already.
And on the other side of that same counterfeit coin, you have Jussie Smollett. Who walked on enough felony counts that would have sunk a container vessel.... With yet another liberal, far left, BLACK District Attorney. And Republicans have done NOTHING to right any of these wrongs. Not to mention the Clinton's, everyone who was at Epstein's Pedophile Island, The Steele Dossier, Fast & Furious, and I could go on and on.
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<snip>
And on the other side of that same counterfeit coin, you have Jussie Smollett. Who walked on enough felony counts that would have sunk a container vessel.... With yet another liberal, far left, BLACK District Attorney. And Republicans have done NOTHING to right any of these wrongs. Not to mention the Clinton's, everyone who was at Epstein's Pedophile Island, The Steele Dossier, Fast & Furious, and I could go on and on.
So what you are saying is so much for impartiality. Well hell, so what's to lose then?
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So what you are saying is so much for impartiality. Well hell, so what's to lose then?
Basically your entire life as you knew it. They will take your guns after they arrest you, (which is why they are all pushing for these, "Red Flag" laws). Because it constitutes power and seizure without due process. Then they will break you financially, by forcing you to fight for your life in court. Again, just like this St. Louis couple is doing as we speak.
Make no mistake. They know we hard working middle class people have a lot to lose. Many, like a lot of the guys here, have worked their entire lives, trying to scrape together some type of halfway decent retirement. And all of it could disappear with a single gunshot fired in a legitimate self defense situation. So just remember before you head out the door with your AR, or whatever weapon you choose to carry. That virtually EVERYTHING you have ever worked for could be gone. And you don't even have to pull the trigger for it to happen.
Then, after they take your guns and financially flush you down the toilet, you will become subservient to them. By being dependent on whatever crumbs they decide to give you. Think of Cuba under Castro. Or Venezuela under Hugo Chavez, and now Maduro.
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So, in the end, nothing left to lose.
People need to understand that.
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Then there is this:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/09/nationwide-ammo-shortage-as-americans-stock-up-amid-civil-unrest/
I think that Trump will win in a landslide. And there is a very good possibility the Republicans could hold the Senate, and win back the House. Especially with the way all of these Democratic mayors and governors are acting. Allowing all of this rioting and destruction. I think Minnesota will go red this time, directly because of it.
What will happen then, is the streets are going to explode. At that point, the best thing Trump could do, would be to go on national television, and make a speech like that Polk County Sheriff did. Basically calling for the people with guns to not hesitate to use them in defense of their home, property, and families. That would carry a LOT of weight with law enforcement.
Law enforcement knows the American people side with them, and not the politicians. We are really the only friends they have. I honestly believe it will be far worse if Trump wins this time. Because deep down I think a lot of Democrats know Biden doesn't stand a chance. Before they thought they had it won. It's going to get real ugly real fast, no matter how you slice it.
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On that ammo shortage a friend of mine was selling 5.56 at the Dallas gunshow last week for $1.30 a round. That was to prevent the dealers from buying it from him at 65 cents a round and reselling it at higher than $1.30 a round. I bought some before this "ammo crisis" for 29 cents a round....
9MM is stupid high and so is 45 ammo.
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I got lucky.
10 mm is now one of the cheaper calibers ;D
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I got lucky.
10 mm is now one of the cheaper calibers ;D
I think .40 S&W will be around as well. When it gets like this, is when it pays to own a .40 over a 9 MM. Unless you have plenty of 9 MM ammo stockpiled.
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No 40, but yes, I have 9 ;D
Only thing I'm worried about is 5.56.
Figure I'll buy some if I find a deal, otherwise I'm looking at field pick up ;D
9 &10 are what I shoot, and I'm OK on those.
Even have a dozen rounds of 357 for the Contender. ;D
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Only thing I'm worried about is 5.56.
Not only is 5.56 MM ammo scarce, but Mil-Surp brass is all but non available. Even places like Everglades Brass, who use to have literally truckloads of 5.56 MM surplus brass to go for around $65.00 @ thousand, doesn't have a single case in stock. Primers and powder are all but gone as well. This is without question the worst it's ever been.
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Tom was right about the 10MM. It's all gone now.
The deal right now is 50 BMG. Palmetto State has 100 rounds of 4:1 50 BMG linked for $350 including shipping. UN Ammo has a better price on the loose silver tip 50 BMG....
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Well crud. I finally caught the bugger. It's a persistent beastie. The first few days were a breeze with improvement on day 3 and 4 when I got tested. Two days later it started kicking my you know what.
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Well crud. I finally caught the bugger. It's a persistent beastie. The first few days were a breeze with improvement on day 3 and 4 when I got tested. Two days later it started kicking my you know what.
Hang in there. My daughters man meat caught it, took him out for a few weeks, the kid musta got it too but she never got tested. Both grand critters never missed a beat, 5 and 3. We avoided them for three weeks, all good!
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Oldest son, lives alone, got it. Had him down for a week. Of course he stayed home, ordered groceries delivered and didn't visit his daughter or us. He works from home, and other than missing a day or 2 this wasn't a big deal work-wise for him.
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Younger son (the firefighter) tested positive Sunday (his entire shift has it at the FD). He has a low grade fever and feels like crap but is staying up and moving around his house and outside which is good for the lungs, I understand.
The wife's sister and her husband has it along with six of their kids and grands and nephew. The husband, son and nephew all work at the same place and it is rampant there so I figure one of the three was the carrier during Christmas. My b-i-l is struggling because he already had an auto-immune issue that had him borderline having leukemia and his white blood count is basically zero. He went to the Mayo clinic in Jacksonville today and they tried an experimental IV antibiotic and something else on him so now it's a wait and see.
My wife was in proximity to our son last Thursday but not up close, so they told us to watch closely for symptoms and stay away from folks for ten days.
We are taking vitamins and such and have Ivermectin on hand. I'll use that stuff in a heartbeat at the first sign of a symptom. A friend took the Ivermec when he had it swears it turned his sickness around in 48 hours. Studies are showing that the stuff works. I also read a study this week that listed several antihistamines (one was regular old Benadryl) that made big improvements in symptom relief.
I personally think the wife had it last February. Since her chemo ten years ago she has bouts of chronic bronchitis a couple times per year, usually during peak allergy seasons. Last February she spent two weeks coughing with on/off chills and was in the bed sick. Doc prescribed the stuff they always do for the bronchitis but she said it was different because her lungs burned and ached and felt different than the normal bronchitis.
The second week that she was sick and coughing, I also started with a cough but only had a mild fever for a day or so. My immune system has always been pretty stout and I rarely get sick....and when I do it usually doesn't hit me as hard as it does the rest of the family.
In March and April when the main symptom lists started coming out we both said that was probably what we had in February. Now they say you can get it again even if you've already had it.
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Yeah the coughing and congestion kicked in about day # 5 and 6. Day 7 is when test results came in and I started the Ivermectin. I wish I had gone ahead and started it a few days earlier. Day 8 fever came back and day 9 it was a pretty high fever until it broke around midnight.
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Coughing ?
Congestion ?
After a pack a day+ for 45 years I wouldn't even notice that.
People I've talked to around here have mentioned head aches as well .
A couple have said that was the only symptom they had.
Has anyone seen any effect or symptom that makes this any different from the normal flu ?
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Yeah. In a regular flu you get bad and when you get better you generally continue to feel better. With this damn thing you take 3 steps forward and 4 steps backwards then 3 steps forward and 1 step back. Then all of a sudden when you are better then you get slammed by fever for a couple of days and get better and fall into coughing fits for another couple of days. It's a real hanger oner to get rid of for us old folks. I had the fever break and felt better for a day and then got slammed with respiratory distress.
I am glad I took the pneumonia vaccine back last March.
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I am glad I took the pneumonia vaccine back last March.
I'm not anti vax, but the flu shot messes me up bad enough to be extremely leery of any others for myself.
I'll take my chances as always.
What doesn't kill you might not make you stronger, but it DOES make you more resistant. ;D
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No 40, but yes, I have 9 ;D
Only thing I'm worried about is 5.56.
Figure I'll buy some if I find a deal, otherwise I'm looking at field pick up ;D
9 &10 are what I shoot, and I'm OK on those.
Even have a dozen rounds of 357 for the Contender. ;D
I have 7 boxes of 20 rounds each in .357 Maximum for my Contender, each load different, ranging from 140-200 grains. Plus another 3 1/3 boxes of 50 rounds each of 180 grain SJHP. That's what me and my buddy shot his old motorcycle helmet with when he got a new one. They went through both sides like a hot knife through butter. Or a knife through hot butter. Christmas 2019 I was Ammo Claus and gave both of his sons a bunch of 5.56mm among other things. I may have kept some of the .357 Magnum and .38 Special for myself. I gave my friend a package of Strike Three .44 Special ammo for his Charter Arms Bulldog. They have a blue plastic CCI shot capsule, but instead of #9 bird shot they have 3 000 Buckshot in the capsule. 15 .36 caliber projectiles from a little snubbie. That's roughly 1/2 ounce of 9.1mm balls per trigger pull. 8) I found a pic of what various calibers looked like. The small one is 9mm.
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I'm not anti vax, but the flu shot messes me up bad enough to be extremely leery of any others for myself.
I'll take my chances as always.
What doesn't kill you might not make you stronger, but it DOES make you more resistant. ;D
In this case I am anti-vax because the treatment is not a vaccine as we know it. I'm reading a lot about how it may be causing an outburst of the various strains because the body's immune system is not prepared like a regular vaccine prepares it. Some caution that the treatments will cause more virulent strains to evolve.
There is so much disinformation and rank BS out there from talking heads who knows what to believe. At first we were told if you had it you would get no natural immunity and then you would only get 1 to 3 months. Now the natural immunity time is 6 or more months and I'm wondering what it is about the Wuhan Lab flu that makes it's mechanism any different towards natural immunity than other flu?
We were told masks were no good and now we are told filthy dirty masks that people carry around in their pockets are good and anyone with 1/2 a meth head brain knows that isn't true.
I pretty much quit the BS back mid-summer 2020 because I'm not going to live restrained and I'm not scared to die. I prefer to live free. I still feel that way despite having known 2 people fairly close to me dying of the booger in the last month. Some people live...some people die and its always going to be that way.
Now we can see the vaccination passport requirement on the horizon. It's easy to understand why the commies operate with bribes as a commonplace arrangement for daily living.
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There it is!
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There it is!
Reminds me of David Carusso's line in, "Rambo First Blood". After the Teletype report came in on Rambo, and he said, "I knew there was something about that guy!"
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It's media hype and BS.
Remember getting Polio, and Smallpox vaccinations to start school ?
Remember how they explained that they gave you a small dose of dead germs so you body would build an immunity ?
Has anything those lying bastards said been in line with what we learned in Elementary School ?
They say there's a "Huge Surge" in cases in NH.
There are 12 alleged cases in a State of 1.3 MILLION.
Some surge.
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Even though I had a close friend die of CCP flu this month I think the Covid thing has about run it's course. It's like beating a dead horse I think.
I did listen to some information the other day about the CCP biological warfare effort. Man, they are spending the money like crazy on biological warfare while Biden cuts back our nukes to 1,500 or so. Not only that...the leaders of that effort have learned everything and some are still operating here on US soil.
I think we need to go back to some 10 megaton puppies on top of Titan II replacements made of solid fuel propellant...say 100 or so of them with orbital loafing (i.e. circle around the world in a stealth shell for a few weeks) and hypersonic glide capabilities and tell the CCP it's for their party leadership if they release or spill some of that biological weapon they are so intently working on.
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Much of the hype from the left about the CCP flu has died down (I think). It now appears that it is time to pay the piper at least a small personal price for listening to those idiots or being coerced (forced) to take the "jab". The price to pay may not be small in the long term...who knows??? But based on the study below there is a personal price.
Lots of healthy young people dying from heart conditions that is unheard of and right or wrong there are people linking it to the "vaccines" for the CCP flu. Also undertakers are seeing stringey clots in people that used to not exist as they do now (Mike you are from that industry, any confirmations?). Now we're beginning to see studies where the "vaccination" for the CCP flu could be damaging the immune systems of people who get the "vaccinations". The researchers speculate based on data that the more boosters you get the worse your immune system performs. Remember...this is not a classic vaccination where they take "dead" germs and inject you for your immune system to create antibodies...these CCP flu "vaccinations" are an mRNA treatment that modifies your DNA.
I hope you guys did not get "vaccinated".
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/11/5/991 (https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/11/5/991)
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I said from the beginning that I didn't think vaccinations that that modify your DNA were a good idea. Too bad no one in a position to do anything about it asked my opinion.
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This jab thing may blow over (not likely) or become really tragic (hopefully not likely). The mRNA treatment may increase not just susceptibility to the CCP flu, but other normal diseases we are exposed to. The last thing stated is that it may significantly increase cancers in the people who took the jab.
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So, the needle pokes for the China-Pox (compounded by the boosters) can weaken the immune system long-term....... Hmmmmm
Who didn't see this fallout possibility on the horizon two years ago??
Bueller.... Bueller........Bueller??
And this......just for the heck of it.....
Exposing the FDA’s Orwellian Lie About Ivermectin
https://www.theepochtimes.com/fda-makes-unexpected-ivermectin-announcement-facts-matter_5307194.html?utm_source=Morningbrief&src_src=Morningbrief&utm_campaign=mb-2023-06-06&src_cmp=mb-2023-06-06&utm_medium=email&est=sbWgBju9624qrEarq7U2Z86AOKOtfcmAwfMQcylpGpQN5x%2Fy1Hnmz1fqiU9Li0PIOCK98A%3D%3D&fbclid=IwAR3Ld5zsNumT6WECFuTbAtXV2dgQ8eNGEqV76JGK0LaOSXP2mEOQBW-giUE
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Ivermectin worked extremely well for my family.
Also, it seems as though the Chinese vaccination is from dead germs...not a DNA manipulating soup in a needle. I wonder what they knew....and Fauci.