The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Shotguns => Topic started by: les snyder on May 16, 2018, 10:26:25 PM
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I've been watching a lot of Clint Smith's vids on YouTube, many of which are thought provoking as I age... I've been a competitive practical shooter for 35+ years.... it dawned on me that I needed to change my mind set as I take on the persona of old frail guy victim....I perceive more random acts of violence, some of which are close to home... I've recently upgraded to IWB carry any time I leave the house...
a shoulder injury forced me to give up the 870 a couple of years ago, but as I've recuperated I've spent the last couple of days making it in Clint's image of a home defense shotgun...it is 21" vent rib 12ga with chokes..., I removed the extended mag tube to keep the weight off the front, added a sling stud to the end cap and stock...added a sling... it has a side saddle and Choate fore end... added a light mount to the barrel to clean up the fore end...ran a box of light loads through it today, reloading into chamber and mag with my left hand.... I've always used my dominant hand for 3 gun loading the Benelli... regards
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I rethought using any shotgun around the house. I have a Remington Sportsman 12 Auto, a plain Jane version of the Model 1100 in 12 gauge. This was before Rem-Chokes, so I bought a 26" Hastings barrel with 3 interchangeable chokes. After that I cut the 28" modified choke barrel down to a fraction over 18". I tried to keep the new end of the vent rib the same distance from the new muzzle as is was originally. It turned out quite well IMO. I added a Choate stock with a pistol grip, 2-round mag extension and mag clamp, swivels and sling. I'm right handed and if I loop the sling over my head to my left shoulder and hold the muzzle down with my left hand, I can pump out out 7 rounds from the hip very fast, and in the general direction I want all that lead to go. After hearing that a few times a guy at a neighboring cabin later asked me if that was a .22. I laughed and told him no that was a 12 gauge and he couldn't believe I could shoot it that fast. I can also shoot it one-handed. That's something I wouldn't be able to do with a pump. Even wounded Sarah Connor needed both hands to shoot a pump action.
All that being said, any shotgun is too unwieldy around the house, and most of them are way too long. I had a Mossberg Model 500 Bullpup with an 18.5" barrel. It would fit through most doorways sideways. The length was okay for a shotgun but it was even heavier than a regular 12 gauge. Not to mention that it handled like a suitcase. An overly heavy, ugly, tactical suitcase. I decided a handgun was the only kind of house gun that made sense for me. Enter the 14-round Para-Ordnance .45 ACP. Something I can easily handle one or two-handed, is quick to reload, and more accurate than I need it to be. Any shot I take in my house would be 10 feet max unless I was shooting into another room. With a sufficienctly long bushing style compensator, you can easily rack the slide by pressing it against any solid object, like a wall. My first one was an el cheapo similar to the one in the link, but maybe longer.
https://www.fusionfirearms.com/1911-colt-style-gov-compensator-barrel-bushing-style-silver
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Well Les maybe part of the path of the old frail man thing (which I too am contemplating...) will be to tone down that 12 gauge thing to a 20 gauge. In the 1960's Remington made the 20 gauge on a 12 gauge frame....which may make finding parts easier if you can find one of the 20's from that time.
I'm also looking at a Zenith Z-5 pistol ( https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/h-k-uzi-s-mac-10/zenith-firearms.html (https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/h-k-uzi-s-mac-10/zenith-firearms.html) ) just because. I'm liking the ZENITH Z-5RS SB RAIL model just because...I'd like it even better if in 10MM or 45. Not exactly a 1911 pattern but it may grow on you.
Another consideration...if you don't have a dog get one or two get one. My wife raises little foo-foo dogs that won't be much help in a fight but they are heck of alarms. And, a half dozen ankle biters will slow down a bad guy but if for nothing else than tripping on them. Seriously...anyone getting around or in the house will be "ratted out" which will help balance the playing field in my direction.
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My mom has a black Lab that hears everything, and can make herself heard. Her loud bark would be more of a deterrent than the yip, yip, yip of a little dog. It's better to have a big dog scare them away than a little dog let you know someone is in the house. I got a dog for my wife. It was the best trade I ever made. My problem with dogs it how bad it hurts to lose your constant companion.
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My wife raises little foo-foo dogs that won't be much help in a fight but they are heck of alarms.
Yep. My beloved, Bijon, Whitney White-out, would make sure to sound the alarm if a leaf fell in the yard at 2am.
At my sister's house.
In Maine
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Add portholes at strategic locations around the house and you'll be all set.
https://imgur.com/gallery/3uJoRxv
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Any thoughts on the 870DM for home defense?
It would increase rounds available while avoiding a heavy front load, and a spare maq would would put it well beyond the capabilities of a regular 870 for sustained fire.
A mag fed semi-auto, such as the Sagia-12, for those who don't like the sound of a pump shotgun chambering.
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A mag fed shotgun with a couple of extra mags makes a lot of sense to me, as long as it's reliable. You could even have an extra mag in every room of the house for quick reloads if the S Really HTF. No one should hear you chambering a round in your shotgun no matter what kind it is. There should already be a round in it.
If this guy got the kinks worked out of his belt-fed shotgun it would be a great "get the he** off my lawn" weapon. Not so practical around the house.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa9inSZvMsk
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I think I'm done with the 870... I changed my 21" barrel (it had originally been built as a game gun) out for a fixed IC Police18 1/2 Parkerized one from Midway...it was a little larger in size than the cut down vent rib barrel so had to slightly Dremel out the front Choate grip...added the SureFire Scout light from the prize table a Ft Benning....the 3" seems to make a difference in feel... regards
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Sometimes a couple of inches makes a big difference. Size does matter. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. After I cut almost 10 inches off my shotgun barrel and put the +2 mag extension on, it may not have been lighter but it was handier. It's still too big around the house IMO with a an 18-18.5 inch barrel. I would have about a 14" barrel on it if it wasn't for the paperwork involved. If my dreams came true, I would wake up with a Benelli M4 Tactical 14" barrel 12GA in my gun safe.
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I purposely bought a 14" Mossberg Shockwave instead of the Remington just so I wouldn't be tempted :)
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I think I'm done with the 870... <snip>
Really? Whaddya' want for it?? ;D 8) ;D
Sometimes a couple of inches makes a big difference. Size does matter. <snip>
What a tee up....I just can't go after that one...too easy. :o
I love my 870's. They are for hunting...no adaption for home defense. IF I had a shotgun for home defense (other than my Stoeger coach gun) I would want to go with something that had the safety where it was handy...like on that Mossberg. Pro's and con's...I know...having a safety there at the trigger means I don't have to train on, say, the Mossberg I'd be used to the safety at the trigger but I like the idea of having my thumb on the safe to move smooth.
Les...any thoughts on that? Of course...I see you have a Shockwave....
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I have found I prefer a pistol grip on defensive shotguns....they just give more control, recoil and otherwise, and a more secure hold on the gun...but with a pistol grip stock installed, the thumb safety, like on the Mossberg 500 becomes cumbersome...you need to change your grip to operate it.
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I have a Vang Comp Dome Head Safety Switch on my Remington. It's the cheapest part they sell at only $15. It fits perfectly as is, but I filed just a bit off the side of the trigger guard behind the head of the safety, so it will still work with a bunch of dirt between the 2 parts. It sticks out far enough that I can depress the safety as I put my finger on the trigger, with a standard or pistol grip stock. It fits the 870, 1100, and 11-87, 12 gauge or 20 gauge, and also Remington pump action rifles. I don't know it would fit their semi-auto rifles.
They also make a Big Speed Safety Switch for Mossberg shotguns for $35. It fits pumps and semi-autos but, not the Maverick 88 which has a cross-bolt safety. Mossberg makes tactical Maverick 88 Security models, including one with a top-folding stock.
https://vangcomp.com/product/vcs-remington-dome-head-safety/
https://vangcomp.com/product/vcs-mossberg-big-speed-safety/
http://www.mossberg.com/product/maverick-88-security-w-top-folding-stock-31027/
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Rastus... one of the reasons I got the Mossberg Shockwave was that I really have never handled a 590 and kind of wondered how they compared to the 870s...after the first range session with the Shockwave, I added a hand strap to keep it located in my hand...I kind of like the rear position for the Mossberg''s bolt release... the Shockwave is kind of an ongoing evaluation, and may one day find a home in the Tacoma, but more likely a range toy,... if society gets a little more crazy, an AR pistol might find a job as a ride along
I shot Rem1100/1187s for about 25 years for 3 gun, and changed to a Benelli M1S90 in 2006, all with standard style stocks and safeties in relatively the same place to the rear of the trigger, so operating the safety is pretty much a reflex by now.... but for a new shooter, the thumb position for the Mossberg would be an asset... the 870 in question was built as a game gun for Heavy Metal 3 gun division... I really never shot a big match with it... too cheap to shoot the AR10 (7.62x51) due to the cost of ammo... regards
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I'm new to this board but would like to contribute. I'm retired law enforcement, 29+ years and a vet. I have an assortment of home defense options including two German Shepherds. Two years ago we had an attempted home invasion however, when the thugs came to the front door, the dogs hit the door like a pack of wolves and the bad guys took off. Absolutely the best home defense weapon I could have. Having said that, I keep a loaded 9mm on the night stand beside my bed, along with a 400 lumen flashlight and a fully loaded RIA VR60 nearby. I just picked the VR60 up a few weeks ago and have run the heck out of it to make sure it's 100% reliable. After 350-400 rounds of everything from birdshot to buckshot, I am satisfied it is reliable. It will only run birdshot low brass with the low power gas piston, everything else used the high pressure piston. It came with one five round magazine and one nine round mag at my local Rural King. I purchased another four 9 round mags. from Tombstone tactical. I keep the mags loaded with #4 buchshot and the mags are all next to the shotgun. We live in the country, and with the dogs, there is no chance of anyone getting close to the house without us knowing about it. I can position myself so as to defend the doors from one area of the house and the shotgun is my best option. My wife is a accomplished shooter as well and she is a great backup. I love the VR60 and also have a second 12 ga. semi auto made in Turkey and it runs great. Call me paranoid if you wish but, I keep the second shotgun loaded with Ficcochi low recoil buckshot.
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Welcome aboard, Lucky1, glad to have you! We have always welcomed input, especially practical input from actual hands-on experience.
I've only saw a video or two of the VR60, but it looks like a beast in familiar clothing. The operational familiarity between an AR15 and the VR60 would make a great combo.
As to being paranoid, in the world we live in today, there ain't no such thing. Having back-up home defense weapons is always a good thing.
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Welcome aboard, Lucky1, glad to have you! We have always welcomed input, especially practical input from actual hands-on experience.
I've only saw a video or two of the VR60, but it looks like a beast in familiar clothing. The operational familiarity between an AR15 and the VR60 would make a great combo.
As to being paranoid, in the world we live in today, there ain't no such thing. Having back-up home defense weapons is always a good thing.
Thank you sir, I enjoy reading the posts, informative. I really do like the VR60 and for the reasons you mentioned. It is a beast with buck shot. I added a forward grip horizontally to help in keeping it on target. Tried to post a photo and got this.
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Lucky1... welcome... if you want to extend your range, I get good luck with Fiocchi Aero 7/8oz slugs out of my 21" Benelli... shoots better than 3" at 70yds...
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On some forums you need to make 10 or 20 posts before you can post pictures. I don't know if this is one of them. It's to cut down on people spamming the forum with advertisements. I like your choice of #4 Buck for your shotgun Lucky1. That's my choice too in my Remington with no choke at all. The way I see it, more pellets = more chances of hitting your target. I don't know if a half dozen or so #4s, or #3s in a 20 gauge, are any more lethal or less lethal than a single 00 or 000 Buck, but they make more holes that can bleed. I figure that's a good thing.
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I'm slowly working on my EBS (Evil Black Shotgun). I would post some pics when I'm done if I could. Instead, I'll start a thread with a description, and links for parts, some of them great parts. It's too big to clear the house with but I could keep it in my bedroom in case I need to retreat and use the extra firepower. My Mossberg 500 bullpup was short enough fit though doorways sideways, but the handling... it was like a tactical suitcase.
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but the handling... it was like a tactical suitcase.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D