The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: JdePietro on June 05, 2009, 11:17:57 AM
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Mods; I am not 100% sure where this belongs, so move as you see fit.
I am a gun cleaning, and gun lubricating fanatic! I am always in search for better products and I have no problem putting out a couple dollars in “research” to see if they product does what it says it will. The following is my experiences with these products over a period of a year with the exception of Brian Enos’s Slide Glide.
Eezox http://eezox.com/:
Eezox claims to be a one stop shop for gun cleaning and lubrication. The website boast claims of superior rust protection as well as reduced cleaning time due to a dry lubricating film that is left after every use. Cumulative use of the product results in better protection and easier cleaning. The product is meant to be used solely and does not work as proclaimed when mixed with other cleaning solvents and lubes.
I have been using Eezox for about a year now give or take a month. The first thing I want to put out is that it does not remove copper or plastic fowling. Whereas I have found that it makes a great oil to put in your barrel after you clean, on its own I do not think it does an adequate job for barrel cleaning. Protection is first rate, finger prints, dust, you name it Eezox keeps it off! The first time I used this product I was not impressed at all, the carbon was not melting into a pile of butter at my feet, the marks on my blued and parked barrels did not leave. However I went through the steps and cleaned out all the old cleaner and lube and did the total Eezox make over. The second time around things were mostly the same, nothing dramatic maybe just a little easier since I did not have to clean the old solvent out. It was only the forth or fifth time into it that I finally got to experience the magic of Eezox. The nasty carbon that I used to scrub out with a bronze brush now just wiped off with a gun patch. The areas of my firearms that saw abuse in the field* looked brand new. While out in the field* I watched as the water would bead off and instantly run off my firearms.
Another benefit of the dry film it leaves are its lubing properties. On firearms like Shotguns, Revolvers, and bolt actions I think it is perfect. You don’t have to worry about drippy runny oil getting all over your clothes or gear because Eezox stays where you put it. For harder use application such as the Semi Auto or Full Auto application adding a little oil to the mix really is the ticket. The combined oil and dry film create superior lubrication than just oil alone. You will notice the difference when the moving parts stop wearing off the finish where you put the lube and Eezox.
In ending, I don’t feel Eezox quite qualifies as a end all to the gun cleaning world. I still use a separate cleaning agent for the barrel and in my SA applications I opt for the added protection of wet lubes and grease. Still if you don’t like cleaning for hours on end and you want the finish on your gun to be there for your grandkids I highly recommend you give it a try.
Royal Purple Max film, http://royalpurple.com/protect-parts-o.html:
Royal Purple or RP, has been a industry leader in lubricating products for the automotive world for a very long time. RP Max Film is a great all around lubricant with no real specific purpose. I use it as a wet lube for application that call that specific lubricant. It doesn’t heat up and burn off like some of the “gun” lubes on the market today and the stuff is super slick. It does not attract dust or carbon overly much, no unpleasant odor and I find that it stays where you put it as well as any oil can.
There really isn’t much to say as I don’t find that it does everything you would expect of in an oil. For a couple dollars I can grab a little bottle of this stuff and it works well for my needs.
Brian Enos’s Slide Glide http://www.brianenos.com/pages/slide-glide.html:
Brian Enos is your everybody gun guy. Like you or I he is always in search for the best gun care products and in this case he just decided to make his own. After experimenting with different forms of Lithium Grease, he came to the conclusion that grease makes firearms run better. The problem was that after a couple hundred rounds or so the grease would burn off or disappear. Mr. Enos placed a call to a friend who worked in the automotive industry and together they came up with Slide Glide. I don’t usually rave about a product unless I have tested it over a decent amount of time and thoroughly trust the product enough to recommend it to my family (That would be you guys and gals). However I cannot express how happy I am with this product! But before I discuss it in depth I have a little story…
As I had stated in the beginning, I am rarely satisfied with run of the mill cleaning supplies and I had decided it was time to “research” some new stuff. I read about Slide Glide in a few magazines and decided to give it a run. I put in my info a placed my order only to find out the website would not place my order. After a few attempts I sent an email to contact info and waited. The next day I got an email back from Mr. Enos himself and he stated my order was on its way and on HIM! That my friends is what I call service! I thanked Mr. Enos and promised to give him the results of my tests and shamelessly promote.
So what about the stuff? It is just as it is described on the site. I went for the gusto and placed some on my M1A and SW1911PD. First I had three friends and myself run the actions and take a few shots with my old lube. Afterwards I stripped the guns and cleaned every ounce of grease off and applied Slide Glide lite to all the previously lubed parts. Each person and myself worked the actions of the firearms and it was a unanimous conclusion that the slide glide significantly made manipulating the actions easier and quieter, yes noticeably quieter. We put 100 rounds through the 1911 to try and move or burn off the grease. No dice that stuff was still there, and yes because the action was so smooth it did feel like the recoil was different. I wouldn’t go as far as to say it was significantly lighter, but it did feel less harsh and metallic. The M1A was the big test and without much fanfare I can say that the Slide Glide did its job. I think in the future I am going to upgrade to the Slide Glide Medium for the M1A but I cannot say that the lite did anything but improve the function and smoothness of the action. If it didn’t burn off or run after 40 rounds rapid fire and 80 slow fire, I don’t think it could or would.
In ending I want to say that although my evaluation time with Slide Glide has been the shortest it was the most impressive. It is rare to find a product out there that actually does what the owner claims but Slide Glide is one of those. Mr. Enos is a great guy and obviously knows how to run a business. Slide Glide now has a permanent home in my cleaning supplies and I really hope you add it to yours.
*Field, refers to my various training, hunting, and competitions.
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Good stuff JDP.
Thanks for the info!!
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Thanks for the Info
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+1 on the Slide Glide, great stuff!
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All I have ever used to lubricate my firearms is Mobil 1 Motor Oil, ATF, (Automatic Transmission Fluid), and for very high pressure friction points like bolt lugs on bolt action rifles and hinge pins on O/U shotguns I use a small amount of STP. I have never had a a gun rust or fail because of a lubrication issue in over 35 years. Gun oils and greases are overpriced "snake oils" in fancy packaging, nothing more. Know what your getting when you spend $8.00 for a bottle of "Castrol / Hoppes Synthetic Gun Oil"? Castrol Syntec Motor Oil. You can buy it all day for around $4.50 @ quart, or pay $8.00 for 4 ounces of it in a fancy brushed Aluminum pump bottle.
Same with a lot of these "Gun Greases". Go into any auto parts store and you can buy a large tube of Moly Grease that will last the average shooter a lifetime for a couple of bucks. It's as good, or better than these miracle gun greases they sell for over $10.00 for a 1/4 ounce! If you like the fancy hypo type applicator, you can get one at Walgreens, or most any other drug store for around .25 to .50 cents, and it's refillable too boot.
Mobil 1 can be tailored to your climate just as you would if you used it in your car. If you shoot or hunt in very frigid climate it comes in a 0W-20 grade that won't stiffen up in cold weather. Here in Arizona we don't get much cold weather, but in the Summer it can get blistering hot so I use the 20W-50 grade. It has a nice viscosity that won't run off metal and dry up in a few days like some of these water thin gun oils like "Rem-Oil" will.
ATF is a very clean non gumming lubricant that works well for lubricating semi autos and fast moving parts like slides and even trigger mechanisms. All 3 of these products can be purchased at any auto parts store for around $10.00, and will last the average shooter for years. I won't overpay for these gun lubes that do nothing better except make you poorer. Bill T.
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Motor oil lube for AR'' and AK's?
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An automobile engine, or any engine for that matter, is a lot harder to keep properly lubricated than a firearm. Bill T.
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An automobile engine, or any engine for that matter, is a lot harder to keep properly lubricated than a firearm. Bill T.
Well put Bill, quite a bit dirtier too...engine oils, specifically the synthetic types can last for MILLIONS of cylinder firings, crankshaft and cam rotations and huge heat ranges. Your handgun will never see that type of abuse in it's entire lifetime if you were to shoot it every day for 100 years. The detergents required in motor oil strip the metal of contaminants to keep it clean and reduce friction and wear, exactly what your trying to accomplish with the "High Tech" gun oils.
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I remember reading an article by a guy that was a metallurgist and a shooter who recommended ATF. Said it was the best stuff out there. Only time he suggested using something else (can't remember what) was for extreme cold.
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I remember reading an article by a guy that was a metallurgist and a shooter who recommended ATF. Said it was the best stuff out there. Only time he suggested using something else (can't remember what) was for extreme cold.
We read that here, there was a link to a web site that had the science. I don't have time today to search the Archive though.
It may have been the thread DDMack put up about the spilled heating oil
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Eezox is about $8 USD for a 12 oz spray can at my local gunshop.
RP MaxFilm or Syn32 (if you get the bottle) is about $3 bucks for 6 oz. <-- By the way automotive product :o
Slide Glide is about $12 for a tub that will probably last longer than you own the firearm.
Total for all three $23 USD. ??? spensive ???
In most cases I trust my life to my firearms and for that reason I sleep soundly at night knowing that I test and use only the best. Yes I have tried Mobil 1 and Lucas Oil and ATF. And while the anti friction properties are there they are a pain in the shorts to clean and if over applied they will turn to a blackish gook and jam up the firearm.
I am not a spokesmen for these companies, I only attempted to share the results of my trials with the products and my experiences. If motor oil works for you GREAT!!! I tried that route early on and didn't like it.
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JP,
No one is jumping on ya. And I use Gun Butter myself on most of my firearms.
We just like to kick this subject around, sorta like 'should I break in a new barrel". SURE to have a 'fun' discussion! ;)
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Besides, It is good to have the info available not just for new shooters but unpaid experience for the rest of us.
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Maybe I did come off sounding a little defensive, my apologies.
I totally understand the snake oil argument, how many companies make a product and claim it is the end all to gun cleaning needs? I've read and tested maybe a dozen or so different brands of products that claim to offer superior this and best that. No, my "tests" are not the official ball bearing or metered, measured varity. Often I just go out find a couple of buddies that are willing to share their honest opinion while we rack, slide, and shoot various firearms of various types and come to a conclusion that often times varies between individual people.
For the rust protection catagory I just use nails and salt water. Nothing high speed or fancy.
I certainly don't expect people to take my word as if it come from some ordained power, just offering up the conclusions that myself and others have come to with certain products, so that and about 50 cents oughta get you a pack of gum.
;D
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I don't think there is anything "wrong" with these high priced gun oils and greases. In fact some of them may offer very good lubrication and rust and corrosion protection. I just think that from a cost standpoint, when compared to conventional petroleum oils and greases, there really isn't much, if any difference. At least not enough to detect in the lubrication and longevity of firearms, which aren't that difficult to keep properly lubed and running. This is one of those things like adding "Prolong" to the engine of your new, expensive truck. If it makes YOU feel better to use it, then by all means do so. That itself makes it worth the extra cost. Peace of mind in todays world isn't that easily achieved. If using a given product helps you to do so, that alone makes it worth it. Bill T.
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Maybe I did come off sounding a little defensive, my apologies.
I totally understand the snake oil argument, how many companies make a product and claim it is the end all to gun cleaning needs? I've read and tested maybe a dozen or so different brands of products that claim to offer superior this and best that. No, my "tests" are not the official ball bearing or metered, measured varity. Often I just go out find a couple of buddies that are willing to share their honest opinion while we rack, slide, and shoot various firearms of various types and come to a conclusion that often times varies between individual people.
For the rust protection catagory I just use nails and salt water. Nothing high speed or fancy.
I certainly don't expect people to take my word as if it come from some ordained power, just offering up the conclusions that myself and others have come to with certain products, so that and about 50 cents oughta get you a pack of gum.
;D
don't worry JDP, we really do appreciate your input. just remember, here we argue about everything, kinda like a disfunctional family, can't say black without someone arguing about it being white, you know... anyway, though we learn from your experience, it also opens up a discussion where many of us have different opinions and want to share our own experiences, and of course humour.. :D
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Shoot, clean, lube, ,....repeat....
Firearms, like women, love attention. ::) As long as their maintained, loved and fondled, and not put up wet, they will outlast us all, and be passed down to our sons, daughters, other family members, etc,..
My old .410 bolt action, keyword "old" has been happy with Hoppe's No. 9, and Brite-Bore gun oil, since long before I inherited it. Still has a smooth action and runs like a swiss watch.
Grampa used Aero-Kroil, Marvel Mystery Oil, and some other stuff from his hydraulic shop I can't recall, I still use it from time to time. My Mauser is 108 years old, and hits what its pointed at. Who knows what it was cleaned with before my Grandfather "got it".
My newer ones, get more attention, and whatever someone's "favorite" cleaner, lube, oil, doesn't matter, as long as its routinely used and maintained like anything else.
Thanks for the post Jde, great information, and well worth the time to post.
We're all of like minds here when it comes to taking care of our firearms, brands are like what's better a Mercedes or Lexus? Both are great, and that's what makes this forum a great place to be.
Different ideas and products with the same end result: a well maintained and utterly reliable firearm.
Tom W.
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Shoot, clean, lube, ,....repeat....
Firearms, like women, love attention. ::) As long as their maintained, loved and fondled, and not put up wet, they will outlast us all, and be passed down to our sons, daughters, other family members, etc,..
My old .410 bolt action, keyword "old" has been happy with Hoppe's No. 9, and Brite-Bore gun oil, since long before I inherited it. Still has a smooth action and runs like a swiss watch.
Grampa used Aero-Kroil, Marvel Mystery Oil, and some other stuff from his hydraulic shop I can't recall, I still use it from time to time. My Mauser is 108 years old, and hits what its pointed at. Who knows what it was cleaned with before my Grandfather "got it".
My newer ones, get more attention, and whatever someone's "favorite" cleaner, lube, oil, doesn't matter, as long as its routinely used and maintained like anything else.
Thanks for the post Jde, great information, and well worth the time to post.
We're all of like minds here when it comes to taking care of our firearms, brands are like what's better a Mercedes or Lexus? Both are great, and that's what makes this forum a great place to be.
Different ideas and products with the same end result: a well maintained and utterly reliable firearm.
Tom W.
Wow, that takes me back, ;)
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This is a good subject, and I appreciate good info, I don't consider any thing I've read so far as BAD info. Just varying experiences. My cleaning habits have changed through the years, started off with an Outers cleaning kit, with screw together tubes for rifle, pistol and shot gun, as I shot more and it wore out, got some stouter rods, better brushes, both bronze and plastic, bore guides, patch jags etc... Then the chemicals, Hoppe's #9 still an all time favorite, I buy it by the quart, and took a 30 caliber ammo can and filled it half way with Hoppe's for dunking. Of course everybody knows Hoppe's will remove nickle, I don't own any nickel firearms. Then came the copper removers, most are ammonia based, I hate ammonia based cleaners, yes they remove copper, but things can occur even if your careful. Point in fact, I ruined a new rem 700 varmint, by using Sweets 16 solvent to remove the copper, and then Shooters choice to clean the Sweets out, and lube and protect the barrel, turns out these 2 chemicals don't like each other. Looked like I left steel wool in the barrel, years later there was an article about this very thing in Precision Shooter magazine, too late, but at least I found out, I was not completely at fault.
Bore cleaning now.
1) Aero Kroil to start, to remove the powder fouling, a really wet patch, let sit for 10 minutes, followed by JB Bore compound to get the metal fouling, followed by FP10 lube, rust inhibitor for storage. I also use the FP10, on the outside of all the metal, apply by hand and wipe with a clean cloth, it is slick and has great rust inhibition. This is mainly for bolt actions, probably does not matter, but I worry about the JB getting into the gas ports of semi's and working its way through the gas system.
2) Same for handguns, but maybe using the lewis lead remover, after shooting a lot of lead bullets.
3) Simple green cleaner. Most of you, probably use this for cleaning around the house, I use it for parts cleaning and in corrosive ammo fouling, which includes black powder, smells good too. Make a gallon bucket of hot water, and add 1/2 cup of simple green, disassemble the firearm enough to put the muzzle in the liquid, and a cleaning rod with brush from the back side, even the brush will create a vacuum and pull the cleaner into the bore, work it back and forth 10-12 times and the corrosive stuff is gone, the hot water lets everything evaporate quickly. I Follow with Kroil, JB maybe, and FP10.
4) Ammonia based, for really copper fouled stuff, as a smith, sometimes a customer will bring something in that is really horrible. Clean with the ammonia base cleaner until blue does not show on the patch anymore, then use the simple green formula, which will neutralize the ammonia, followed by Kroil, JB maybe and FP10.
5) Corrosion X, a local Dallas product, but man does it eat rust without eating anything else. I use it on my milling machine table, not only to remove surface rust, but it is a great rust inhibitor as well. My milling machine is in the garage, with the washing machine, in the winter when the equipment is cold, but the clothes are in the washer, the humidity is very high, and water will drip from from the mill, from condensation, the corrosion X has kept it in good shape. Now neither corrosion X nor Kroil is a good lubricant, If your drilling a hole in metal don't reach for it to put on a drill bit for lube, does not work well at all.
But get a bore that looks pitted, or surface rust, swab it good with corrosion X and let sit for half and hour and go to cleaning, it is usually surprising.
External and internal protection.
1) FP10, Kroil and Corrosion X, apply by hand and wipe off with a clean cloth all metal surfaces, scopes, rings, bolt etc...
2) Birchwood Casey Sheath, foil pouch like eyeglass cloths, you can carry these in your pocket, and if caught in the rain they are a life saver, thin enough to run under the barrel channel to get the underside without disassembly. One cloth will usually treat every available external surface.
Lubrication.
1) FP10, liquid lube and inhibitor, be careful, Some AK47's will go full auto or at least double and triple when this is used. My primary lube.
2) Action magic 2, from Brownell's, this is part of any trigger or action job I do, apply to the sear/hammer mating surfaces. On revolvers, I use it inside where the fire control parts rub on the frame, around any coil springs, I apply with a tooth pick or cotton swab.
3) sil-glyde paste, silicon Ptfe paste, very slick and meant for putting on brake pads, very high heat and will not come off, I've seen this stuff on worn out brakes, and except for the dust, looks like new. This I would use on M1, M1a op rod rollers, and op rod springs as well as AR15 buffer springs. Ak and Sks recoil springs as well. Cheap too. You can buy it at Napa.
Rimfires.
I like molybedenum disulphide spray that evaporates and leaves only the lubricant with no oils, will not attract dirt. Great for rimfire actions.
Holsters?
Silicone spray, not the lubricant, the lubricant is grease like, this is very clear and light, and will make your holster fast without losing retension. Great for lubing rubber or car antennas as well. As with anything don't over do it.
Long winded as usual, but my 02 pennies. Nothing wrong with what's been said here in my opinion, I wonder if Slide glide is Sil-glyde?
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M25, were pretty much on the same page, as I use most of everything (and in the same order) as you mentioned (Kroil, JB, Hoppe's, and even including the Lewis).
Only thing I use different is that I still use either Mil-spec gun oil (bought a case 20 years ago at Army-Navy store that went out of business) or Browning gun oil for storage and protection. It's worked for years. I have used Rig gun grease to lube slides several times. I've never bought any of the high-end fancy stuff.
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My bad on the math, (one of those days), Mauser is 118 years old. :P
The smell of Kroil has banished me to the patio when cleaning. Wife just doesn't get the memories, grampa's garage, mixed with lucky strike cigs and Schlitz, some neighbors dog that would sleep in the corner, and me poking around as a kid.
I always wondered why he had a fridge, and a little radio in the garage, NOW I know.... ;)
I wish I had his bench vise and drill press.
Sorry for the drift, the stuff made years ago seemed to work just fine compared to the "state of the art" stuff.
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PB B'laster or diesel will also work in a pinch as a base cleaner. I've used it to good effect.
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PB B'laster or diesel will also work in a pinch as a base cleaner. I've used it to good effect.
Nothing gets past a coat of PB. That stuff makes WD-40 or CRC look like tap water...
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TW I'm glad you brought up, WD40, do not use this on guns for sure. It is a wonderful water displacer, but not a good lubricant or rust inhibitor. Great for getting a distributor cap back in shape if it got wet, and good for cleaning certain things, look up the list on Google. Not good for long term storage or fine tuned items like fishing reels or firearms.
Quick story, a shooting friend of mine came by on trade day at the club, and he had a holster ( Ernie Hill fast track for a 5" S&W N frame ) that I wanted, he wanted 75 bucks for it, I offered him 50 and he would not take it. But after talking He gave me a metalloyed model 19 that was all bound up, to work on. Initially you could not cock it or turn the cylinder,you could barely open it. I took it apart, and guess what, WD at work, it turned to a very hard wax, enough so you could not turn the cylinder or cock the hammer. Some brake cleaner and lube, cleaned it all off, reassembled and all was well. That taught me why WD is not for me.
For payment I got the holster ;D I still have it and love it. ;)
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TW I'm glad you brought up, WD40, do not use this on guns for sure. It is a wonderful water displacer, but not a good lubricant or rust inhibitor. Great for getting a distributor cap back in shape if it got wet, and good for cleaning certain things, look up the list on Google. Not good for long term storage or fine tuned items like fishing reels or firearms.
Quick story, a shooting friend of mine came by on trade day at the club, and he had a holster ( Ernie Hill fast track for a 5" S&W N frame ) that I wanted, he wanted 75 bucks for it, I offered him 50 and he would not take it. But after talking He gave me a metalloyed model 19 that was all bound up, to work on. Initially you could not cock it or turn the cylinder,you could barely open it. I took it apart, and guess what, WD at work, it turned to a very hard wax, enough so you could not turn the cylinder or cock the hammer. Some brake cleaner and lube, cleaned it all off, reassembled and all was well. That taught me why WD is not for me.
For payment I got the holster ;D I still have it and love it. ;)
I had an uncle that believed in WD-40....until it gummed up a Remington 1100 for him.
Don't get me wrong, it's good for many a thing, but the only time I've ever used it on guns was to keep the moisture at bay on trips home FROM hunting in foul weather, and as soon as I could, I got it out.
I've used it to surface wipe, but never internally.
It does work really well at getting black scuff marks off of floors. ;)
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PB B'laster or diesel will also work in a pinch as a base cleaner. I've used it to good effect.
we buy the PB Blaster by the case on my ship, great stuff, also buy a lot of spray on cosmoline, good for the harsh environment and easy to clean off. for solvents we buy a water soluble oil that works excellent, available through Unitor by the jug.. ;)
TW I'm glad you brought up, WD40, do not use this on guns for sure. It is a wonderful water displacer, but not a good lubricant or rust inhibitor. Great for getting a distributor cap back in shape if it got wet, and good for cleaning certain things, look up the list on Google. Not good for long term storage or fine tuned items like fishing reels or firearms.
wd40 will also eat rubber, anything with o-rings or rubber seals, diesel does a number on it too. better off using a synthetic oil or silicone based grease for that sort of job. I know you won't find it on your guns, but some people have rubber grips, and those will be affected by some petroleum products. plastic will get brittle too. and simple green is awesome!!!! works on everything. have found that (if it's available to you) hydraulic oil works good as a solvent.
yeah, I'll think of some stuff later I'm sure... :)
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For lube, I am using ATF and automotive grease mixed with a little dry moly. Working great. Got the idea of the ATF from the article that was talked about.
For general cleaning, if the firearm is really bad, I'll start with carburator cleaner and WD. I do not use WD for lube or metal protection. Here in New Mexico, it is so dry, there is no need to put a coat of rust protection on firearms.
For barrels, I run three wet patches, Bore Tech Eliminator, and let it set for couple hours and then, depending on copper in barrel, plastic or bronze brushes, wet patches and dry patches. I have used Hoppes, Sweets (don't like it), Shooters Choice, TM solution solvent, JB's with Eliminator doing the best job for cleaning barrels. I check my barrels with bore scope. Eliminators will eat up bronze brushes but has no amonia.
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I've been using Lubraplate 105 (outboard motor lube-for gear cases of non-shaft motors) for years. Mostly semis because that is what I have. Have used it on revos too. Just got some Slide Glide but have yet to make a judgement because I haven't gotten to shoot too much because of health problems. Hope to cure that by the end of the summer.
Clean with whatever I have handy except WD-40.
Richard
PS: Think I got it from Brownells at least 30 years ago!