The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: fatbaldguy on September 20, 2012, 04:20:00 PM
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So I have some questions.
Platforms; AR or HK or FN or AK or M1A style?
Caliber; .223/5.56NATO or .308/7.62NATO or 7.62x39 or other? Keep it affordable for non-reloader
Barrel; 16 or 18 or 20 or 24 inches?
Optics; I'm thinking something like a 1x4 for up to 400 yds.
I really like the concept of the Ruger Scout Rifle, but, the mags are priced hellaciously high.
How 'bout some reasons please. Bullseye would be primary use, but if the SHTF, insurance wouldn't hurt none.
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Modern semi auto .308's like the Springfield SOCOM 16, and the DPMS AP-4 Carbine, along with carbine models of the PTR-91, and the VEPR AK Models have all but made the .308 bolt action Scout Rifle concept obsolete. With these bolt action Scout Rifles you don't get any better firepower, (20 round magazines are max.), or any better accuracy, so I just don't see the advantage of them.
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If you want something to shoot bullseye go with the AR in either .223/5.56 or 308/7.62 or else the M1A.
HK is supposed to be real accurate, and you can use G-3 magazines at $5-10 each, BUT, the fluted chamber makes reloading a PITA, and if you ever need to replace the barrel the supply is very limited, because very few companies are set up to flute the chamber.
The AK is strictly a fighting/ hunting/ plinking carbine, neither the rifle or the cartridge are designed for one hole groups, you might get them, but it will be more due to you skill, and getting lucky than to the inherent accuracy of the gun and load which were designed to be "good enough".
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-The AR platform in any caliber will be the most versatile.
-You can buy the widest range of upgrades, gadgets (if that is your thing) and shoot multi-calibers in one AR rifle with some extra parts kept on hand.
-While the AK 7.62x39 ammo is probably the cheapest of the lot, the rifle/ammo platform is not the most accurate, as Tom pointed out.
-If kept to 400 yards and under, the 5.56 with the right bullet, or another caliber option that will fit that size lower will work (IMHO).
-Also, under 400 yards and you can go with the 16" or 18" barrel and still get great accuracy...... particularly if the barrel is free floated and you can find the rifles "pet" load. A good friend has a Rock River with a 16" heavy barrel and it shoots MOA groups at 300 yards (I can't remember the loads he uses). The shorter barrel would also aid in portability in a SHTF or home defense situation.
Humbly submitted as an opinion, for what it is worth. ;)
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Ditto to Tom. If an accurate range toy is what you want you might find an excellent AR and eotech in the classified section for short dollars. ;) If you want scary accurate, I'd go with a 20" free float H-bar and a fixed A2 (or other fixed) stock. You can also get some nice competition trigger groups, but those can run 2 bills and up. Just figure out what you need. Personally I'd go 5.56 or .308 just because of ammo availability if you don't reload. Obviously, 5.56/.223 is going to be a lot cheaper in every respect (from gun, to mags, to ammo), but it will limit your range.
FQ13
And Welcome aboard.
PS Edited for Timothys sake (why don't we have a flipping the bird emoticon)?
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So I have some questions.
Platforms; AR or HK or FN or AK or M1A style?
Caliber; .223/5.56NATO or .308/7.62NATO or 7.62x39 or other? Keep it affordable for non-reloader
Barrel; 16 or 18 or 20 or 24 inches?
Optics; I'm thinking something like a 1x4 for up to 400 yds.
YES to all the above.
Well, all except the optics. I don't think I've seen a 4mm objective. You mean a 1-4x maybe? [Just pullin' your chain. Don't get out FQ's finger icon.] I'd do more of a 3-9x40mm. For "target shooting" at distance a little power doesn't hurt. Maybe look at the Nickon -223 scopes.
Of course you realize that some organize shooting doesn't allow optics so you may want to allow for iron sights as well.
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Here's a link to Midway's selection of fixed power scopes ;
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&newcategorydimensionid=11496
If you go with a Mil Dot reticle on a variable power scope any change in the power setting changes the scale of the reticle, meaning you need to recalculate all your range and hold numbers.
Not a problem with fixed power.
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Here's a link to Midway's selection of fixed power scopes ;
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&newcategorydimensionid=11496
If you go with a Mil Dot reticle on a variable power scope any change in the power setting changes the scale of the reticle, meaning you need to recalculate all your range and hold numbers.
Not a problem with fixed power.
That depends on which focal plane the reticle crosshairs are in. You can pay a little more for a scope with the reticle in the first focal plane and it does not change with magnification. They are few and far between, but are out there.
**edit""
John Barsness writes a lot about scopes in GUNS magazine and online and has a lot of good info:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/September_2011.html
http://www.accurateshooter.com/optics/modern-varmint-and-hold-over-reticles/
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/September-2010-newsletter.html
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If you want glass let me reccomend two and 1/2 scopes. The first is the old Bausch and Lomb Elite series. They are great at light gathering (no mil dots). They are discontinued and live on Ebay and Gunbroker. Anything less than $350 is a steal. Then their current incarnation is the Bushnell Elite series, the successor company. Same scope, just a different name. I would also look hard at the Cabela's Alaskan Guide series scopes, these are very nice for the $$$. Nikons are nice, but for the small $$$ difference between them and Leupold? Well....
FQ13 Who would also say that a good eotech on a nice DPMS is pretty darn accurate. Just sayin'. ;)
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FQ13 Who would also say that a good eotech on a nice DPMS is pretty darn accurate. Just sayin'. ;)
I think I saw one of those for sale somewhere...
;)
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if you are going to play the practical rifle gun games like 3gun... a 1-4 with an illuminated reticle and wide range of eye relief is the current go fast setup....if you want to spend more on the glass than the rifle , I really like my Trijicon TA31F with red chevron
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if you are going to play the practical rifle gun games like 3gun... a 1-4 with an illuminated reticle and wide range of eye relief is the current go fast setup....if you want to spend more on the glass than the rifle , I really like my Trijicon TA31F with red chevron
That's just 'cause you don't have a sportical with an eotech.........."Who said that"? ;D
FQ13
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I'm leaning toward a DPMS LR in .308. 20+" bbl. Optics are a lot different than when I last bought a scope for a squirrel rifle (early '80s). I might have to go with 'iron' sights until I get up to speed on optics. Do the DPMS have proprietary mags? Eventually, I want to put several projectiles through small holes at long range. Maybe shoot some long range steel too.
My last competitive shooting was with a .40 caliber flintlock rifle. My military rifle was the M-14, so the M1A would be real familiar.
I know the .223 has some stopping power, I just think that the heavier bullet in the .308 is more better.
I don't know as I want to play the 3gun games. Gamers and speed demons can get under my skin if I ain't careful.
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I'm not a black rifle guy so I won't comment on that!
If I had the money to do either, I'd go with a .30 caliber. I'm a Navy guy! The didn't trust us with small arms for the most part but I have tripped the light fandango with an M14, full tilt boogie, and it doesn't get much better than that!
My SIL has both an AR-15 platform and an AR-10 and I'd prefer the later over the former any day!
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Armalite AR 10 uses proprietary mags.
As I understand it all the other .308 ARs take DPMS mags.
Edited to add that DPMS can use modified M1A magazines.
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Armalite AR 10 uses proprietary mags.
As I understand it all the other .308 ARs take DPMS mags.
As Michael found out! Along with everything else...he probably spent two large on a rifle he could have bought assembled for 1200 bucks.
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If long-range (anything over 400yds) is the game, then I'd opt for the AR in .308....... even though many service rifle matches shoot the 5.56 at 600 yards.
With the .308, ammo is higher, especially if punching holes is the main game, but you do have much more in the power factor arena for things such ad hunting big game and bucking the wind at longer ranges.
*As a side note, my next purchase, pertaining to my own newly-acquired-first-AR, is a .300 AAC Blackout barrel, to be followed by parts to assemble a complete upper (as funds allow). After toying with a friends rifles in this caliber, and as ammo becomes more available, I like what it offers in the AR platform: short-to-mid-range .30 caliber, with a wide variety of bullet weight options, at both sub and super sonic velocities..... all in a standard AR package.
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Do ask yourself what you have as a local range. Everything within a 5 hour drive here is 100 yards. Buying an 800 yard gun would be like buying a Ferrari to drive around down town Manhatten, you'll never get it out of second gear, if that. If you have access to a 1,000 yard range buy the .308. Otherwise, unless you are seriously planning for a SHTF rifle (not your stated goal), I think its a waste of money. You can buy 5.56 (happy Tim? ;D) , for a whole lot less per round, and I can hook you up with brand new USGI mags for less than $9 a throw. Try doing that with .308. If on the other hand, you are blessed with wide open spaces, go for it. Do bear in mind though, that in an HD scenario, .308 is kind of hard on the neighbors. The flip side is that with a 5 round mag, its a great deer rifle.
FQ13
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Always Happy J...
You corrected your decimal point, I deleted my post!
;D
No need to beat a dead whore as they say!
8)
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No need to beat a dead whore as they say!
8)
Whores surely have it hard.
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That's just 'cause you don't have a sportical with an eotech.........."Who said that"? ;D
FQ13
used a "faux" Eotech.... Bushnell Holosight for four trips to the North Carolina Tactical matches Kyle Lamb put on (max range 180meters)....after 9/11 Kyle was not able to continue the matches due to operational commitment, and by the first of the Ft Benning 3 gun challenges switched to a 4x32 TA01.... shot it for all six, as they typically have a 400+meter stage on 10" MGM flash targets (my best finish on the long range stage was a 12th in 2009) and replaced it with a TA31F last year to use the Bindon Aiming Concept illuminated red triangle... we had a couple of Ranger NCOs that tried to shoot their MK18s (10 1/2") with Eotechs... they weren't happy
bring the correct club...my short range club is a 1.5 x 16 ACOG
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Do ask yourself what you have as a local range. Everything within a 5 hour drive here is 100 yards. Buying an 800 yard gun would be like buying a Ferrari to drive around down town Manhatten, you'll never get it out of second gear, if that. If you have access to a 1,000 yard range buy the .308. Otherwise, unless you are seriously planning for a SHTF rifle (not your stated goal), I think its a waste of money. You can buy 5.56 (happy Tim? ;D) , for a whole lot less per round, and I can hook you up with brand new USGI mags for less than $9 a throw. Try doing that with .308. If on the other hand, you are blessed with wide open spaces, go for it. Do bear in mind though, that in an HD scenario, .308 is kind of hard on the neighbors. The flip side is that with a 5 round mag, its a great deer rifle.
FQ13
The local club has a 500 yd target range, there is in the next state over (3 hours or so) a 750 yd range for steel. Camp Perry ain't that far. When I visit the 'home' place in Ky, my cousin has a range built for 900 to 1000 yds. Must be nice to own property and a bulldozer, and a track hoe and a front end loader!
HD is 12 gauge sxs w/20" bbls, LE reduced recoil 00, and a Gov't Model .45acp. The missus has in her bedroom, a Ruger P-85. Backups for thse would be a S&W Model 15 .38 spcl, and a SAA in .45 Colt. A Winchester 1100 loaded with high brass #4's copper plated and buffered.
Don't come into my house uninvited. ;D
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The local club has a 500 yd target range, there is in the next state over (3 hours or so) a 750 yd range for steel. Camp Perry ain't that far. When I visit the 'home' place in Ky, my cousin has a range built for 900 to 1000 yds. Must be nice to own property and a bulldozer, and a track hoe and a front end loader!
HD is 12 gauge sxs w/20" bbls, LE reduced recoil 00, and a Gov't Model .45acp. The missus has in her bedroom, a Ruger P-85. Backups for thse would be a S&W Model 15 .38 spcl, and a SAA in .45 Colt. A Winchester 1100 loaded with high brass #4's copper plated and buffered.
Don't come into my house uninvited. ;D
My dad just bought a backhoe for the farm (got a good deal on it).......... my youngest son is getting quite proficient at its use.
I see a small berm in the future for the property. :D
Also, my uncle who lives about 20 miles away, has recently dove head first into shooting/reloading....... and built his own reloading/gun shed that opens up on the back side to a 300 yard range. This is really nice since my friend had to shut down his public range and one can only shoot during privately scheduled sessions.......... or in classes through Suarez International.
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My dad just bought a backhoe for the farm (got a good deal on it).......... my youngest son is getting quite proficient at its use.
I see a small berm in the future for the property. :D
Also, my uncle who lives about 20 miles away, has recently dove head first into shooting/reloading....... and built his own reloading/gun shed that opens up on the back side to a 300 yard range. This is really nice since my friend had to shut down his public range and one can only shoot during privately scheduled sessions.......... or in classes through Suarez International.
Just remember that every berm comes with its own mosquito breeding pond. My advice? Dig it it deep and large and contour the bottom. Due respect to your youngest, but maybe talk to a local dirt company. See if they'll dig it for you if they get the lions share of the dirt. Then put sonny boy to work contouring the bottom of the pit. I don't know about in Ga., but here in Fl., the Ag extension agents and Fish and wildlife have subsidies for building/stocking a pond, or at least wholesale prices on fish, everything from minnows and other forage fish to bass and blue gills.Plus they'll give all the info you need, free of charge. If you're taking out a few hundred yards of dirt, might as well make it worthwhile.
FQ13 Who can drift a thread just that quick!
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Just remember that every berm comes with its own mosquito breeding pond. My advice? Dig it it deep and large and contour the bottom. I don't know about in Ga., but here in Fl., the Ag extension agents and Fish and wildlife have susidies for building/stocking a pond, or at least wholesale prices on fish, everything from minnows and other forage fish to bass and blue gills. If you're taking out a few hundred yards of dirt, might as well make it worthwhile.
FQ13 Who can drift a thread just that quick!
We already have the pond part....... and it was stocked through the state. :D
What we do is dig about 8' down and then fill the holes with tree limbs (the ones too small for firewood) from the pecan grove. Then we get a burn permit from the forestry service and burn it.
Submitted by a proud card-carrying member of "The Thread Drifters Association"........ ;D
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We already have the pond part....... and it was stocked through the state. :D
What we do is dig about 8' down and then fill the holes with tree limbs (the ones too small for firewood) from the pecan grove. Then we get a burn permit from the forestry service and burn it.
Submitted by a proud card-carrying member of "The Thread Drifters Association"........ ;D
That ought to make one hell of a bonfire. Can we come?
FQ13
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In NH you get a deal on the fish, plus the onsite water source gets you a break on fire insurance.
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That ought to make one hell of a bonfire. Can we come?
FQ13
Yes.
And bring a hog. ;D
An old high school friend has a local business that builds special fans that are designed for pit-fires for land clearing and such. They are large fans that are driven by big-block Chevy engines and blow enough air into a fire pit to get temps waaaay up.
Below is a pic of a unit over a pit.
(http://www.mcphersys.com/images/trench6sm.jpg)
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Do ask yourself what you have as a local range. Everything within a 5 hour drive here is 100 yards. Buying an 800 yard gun would be like buying a Ferrari to drive around down town Manhatten, you'll never get it out of second gear, if that. If you have access to a 1,000 yard range buy the .308. Otherwise, unless you are seriously planning for a SHTF rifle (not your stated goal), I think its a waste of money. You can buy 5.56 (happy Tim? ;D) , for a whole lot less per round, and I can hook you up with brand new USGI mags for less than $9 a throw. Try doing that with .308. If on the other hand, you are blessed with wide open spaces, go for it. Do bear in mind though, that in an HD scenario, .308 is kind of hard on the neighbors. The flip side is that with a 5 round mag, its a great deer rifle.
FQ13
Got mine today-10 brand new GI mags with green followers for $75 shipped, the wife checked the mail and asked if I was ordering bomb making material (she didn't know I bought them-they were suppose to ship them to my buddy's :-X ) Oh well, she's over it... I hope ;D
BTW I don't own an AR yet but jumped on these. Thanks FQ!
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Got mine today-10 brand new GI mags with green followers for $75 shipped, the wife checked the mail and asked if I was ordering bomb making material (she didn't know I bought them-they were suppose to ship them to my buddy's :-X ) Oh well, she's over it... I hope ;D
BTW I don't own an AR yet but jumped on these. Thanks FQ!
Might as well buy one now since she already thinks you've got one.
Why else would you be buying mags. ;D
Go borrow one and let her see it once in a while, she'll never know the difference when yours shows up. ;D
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Might as well buy one now since she already thinks you've got one.
Why else would you be buying mags. ;D
She sees the handwriting on the wall. I spent this weekend volunteering out at my range for Hunter Sight-In, 12 "Work bond" hours taken care of for this year, and out of all the guys I coached/called shots for the most fun was the kid with the AR and his family (mom, dad & girlfriend) were the most fun, 2 hours, 3 guns (AR, .270 & 300 Win Mag), 100+ rounds, 2 guys and 2 girls good times. Spent an extra hour spotting for a Marine that was a DM and has shot competitively since then, nice Noveske set-up. "We're just finishing cleaning up and pulling targets honey, really..." Never lie to her, unless shooting is involved because she makes me ;D
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The seller has 5 lots of ten with the orange followers (the newest issue, they replaced the greens) left. Those are $85 per 10, or, for the math challenged, $8.50 each. ;D However, deadline is midnight tonight as he's packing up for a move, so if you want some, order in the next two hours. Magoo and I have both had good experiences with this guy. He owns AR15armory.com, and he won't screw you. I'd buy now, as I don't see mags getting cheaper between now and November.
FQ13
Here's the URL. The guy's name is Niel
http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/USGI-MAGS-Sale-t125065.html
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For your purposes, a basic Smith & Wesson M&P Sport is a great value, giving the best bang for the buck. Sure it lacks some features found in other higher priced ARs (no foregrip rails, no forward assist), but IMO they aren't show stoppers. S&W kept the quality where it matters most, in the upper and lower receivers, barrel and bolt carrier group. It also keeps the rifle at just 6.5 pounds, making it good if you ever find yourself bugging out on foot if SHTF. You'll REALLY appreciate saving a pound or more over a tacticool loaded AR if you're hoofing it. This is open for debate, but I consider the "must have" accessories to be only a gun mounted flashlight, a sighting device (scope or red-dot) and a sling. Other things are nice, such as a forward vertical grip, but just add cost and weight. For low cost and low weight, I suggest an Elzetta flashlight mount, Bushnell TRS-25 with a UTG riser mount (0.83 inch for co-witness or 1 inch for lower 1/3 co-witness) and a basic sling and you'll have a great carbine for around 850 bucks, including these accessories. That's value. More money for magazines and ammo! You'll need it.
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S&W makes a nice AR. No doubt about it.
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I like that elzetta mount too. Never heard of the brand, but it seems like a good idea for a flashlight, not so sure about a laser, in terms of holding poa, but a neat idea.
FQ13
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I like that elzetta mount too. Never heard of the brand, but it seems like a good idea for a flashlight, not so sure about a laser, in terms of holding poa, but a neat idea.
FQ13
Elzetta is great. I'm running this mount on one of my ARs with a Spikes Tactical enhanced mid-length upper. I also have their Remington 870 flashlight mount on my bedroom shotgun. Light weight and rock solid. IMO, a laser is a "nice to have" but a gun mounted flashlight is an absolute necessity on every personal defense weapon. With night taking up half the day, and bad guys like to do bad things in the the cover of darkness, I figure the odds of having to use your defense weapon in the dark at much greater than 50%.
I never mounted a laser on an AR, but I run red-dot sights all the time, including this particular Bushnell on my 10/22. I do have lasers on a couple of pistols, and they work great.
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Sure it lacks some features found in other higher priced ARs (no foregrip rails, no forward assist), but IMO they aren't show stoppers. S&W kept the quality where it matters most, in the upper and lower receivers, barrel and bolt carrier group.
I don't consider that a bad thing either - if the round doesn't want to chamber why force it?
I could do without it on my M&P.
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I don't consider that a bad thing either - if the round doesn't want to chamber why force it?
I could do without it on my M&P.
Yep. Screw SPORTS. Just work the charging handle and chamber a new round. You've still got 27 (assuming 28 in a 30 round mag) to go. If its a double feed, then its failure drill time, but other wise? Unless you want to chamber your round silently, and not let the charging handle slam home, I don't see much need for the F/A. Personally, I'm hopefully going to be locked and loaded before it becomes an issue.
Here's a side note. I recently bought some USGI mags, and damn, I really like my P-mags. Don't get me wrong, the GI mags work great, but not much improved over what I used in ROTC in the '80s. The P-mags, well, I just need to place them in the mag well, but the USGI? You need to give them a hard slap on the bottom to make sure they seat right. From there, they are flawless, and at $7.50 a pop I ain't bitching, but the P-mags, at twice the price seem to be worth the money. Too bad I don't have it. :'( I'll just treasure the four I do have). I get why the military goes with "good enough" as they are a disposable item and the Army buys them by the millions, but if I were to be deployed, I'd be on magpul's Christmas card list.
FQ13
FQ13
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Where's a good place to get the pmags?
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You may want to pick your caliber of choice first. Then build from there. The AR platform has 9mm, 5.56(223), 7.62(308), 7.62x39, 6.8mm, .458 socom, and even .22lr.
5.56 platforms(m4 or ar-15) have the most accessory choices. You can buy cheap and upgrade everything to be a superior rifle. Some makers(rock river arms or lwrc) are out of box accurate.
7.62 platform(m16 or ad-10) have almost as much out there in accessories. The caliber is used in many hunting rifles making it versatile. Also this round will be the "last" to be banned because the .308 is a pinnacle hunting round. So longevity is there.
Anything else just increases your cost of ownership, sans the .22.
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Where's a good place to get the pmags?
Just ordered four 20-rounders to try from Brownells........with shipping and such, it averaged $17 and some change each.
http://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazines/ar-15-m16-pmag-polymer-magazine-prod24192.aspx
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speaking of 'black rifles'. my FAL (mmmmhhhh Mongo like FAL)... my beautiful black rifle has shown a bit of drama when it comes to ejecting. stuffs a few rounds now and then. enough to be a pain in the butt. the dust cover is aluminum and shows signs of gouging. the brass comes out with a big dent in the mouth :D . I have buffed the dings out, yet have not returned to the range to test. until I return to the states and can play again, anybody have similar experience? solutions?
other than this prob the rifle is great, more accurate than I and gosh darn it, looks good.
deep
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Modern semi auto .308's like the Springfield SOCOM 16, and the DPMS AP-4 Carbine, along with carbine models of the PTR-91, and the VEPR AK Models have all but made the .308 bolt action Scout Rifle concept obsolete. With these bolt action Scout Rifles you don't get any better firepower, (20 round magazines are max.), or any better accuracy, so I just don't see the advantage of them.
Agree that the bolt-action scout rifle concept is out dated due to the the self-loading rifles out there. I think that a PTR 91/HK 91 or an FN FAL in .308/7.62 is a bit heavy to lug around compared to a Stoner-based rifle which can be lighter due to the materials used to build them. The choices on the Stoner platform are growing by the day; the 6.5 Grendel being an example. The Grendel is purported to give you 1,000 yard reach with an M-4 sized platform, which I find amazing. Of course if you don't need to make 1,000 yard shots, then other alternatives are available in the AR. I would note that the trend now is to go to a piston-driven AR/Stoner platform even though the gas impingment mechanism would suit probably 99% of the shooter out there. Piston-driven mechanisms really only come into play when firing in full auto, which most of us don't do cause we can't afford the rifles.
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Where's a good place to get the pmags?
Not to be a shill but I found this retailer on the sigforum, and i bought my last pmag bulk order from him. Good guy, responsive email, and fast CHEAP shipping. He has a sale on pmags right now
http://ottofirearms.com/
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Not to be a shill but I found this retailer on the sigforum, and i bought my last pmag bulk order from him. Good guy, responsive email, and fast CHEAP shipping. He has a sale on pmags right now
http://ottofirearms.com/
Nice info!!!!
Thanks for the link, Dan!!! :D :D :D
**EDIT**
This guy, James Otto is fast. :D
I ordered three 30 rounders just to see if I like them as much as the 20 rounders and within an hour of placing the order and getting the confirmation email, the shipping notification arrived in my inbox saying they were shipped. Shipping out of Florida, so it shouldn't take long to get 'em. Can't beat that with a stick, and his regular prices on the various style PMags are cheaper than anywhere else I've seen so far. Needless to say, his page is bookmarked for future business.
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Second follow-up to the previous post:
Not only did I get an automated confirmation for bot order and shipment, but the owner sent a personal email letting me know he shipped it and thanking me for my purchase.
I swapped a couple of emails with the guy and he is a owner/operator of his small business outside Pensacola, FL. He offered to assist with any questions I may have concerning AR's and such and generally seemed like a good guy. This is the type business I like to trade with, especially when his prices compare to the big guys like Brownells.
He said he doesn't have the bucks to advertise, so word-of-mouth is his best bet..... so I figured, like in Dan's above's post, I'd pass on my experience to the group also.
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Second follow-up to the previous post:
Not only did I get an automated confirmation for bot order and shipment, but the owner sent a personal email letting me know he shipped it and thanking me for my purchase.
I swapped a couple of emails with the guy and he is a owner/operator of his small business outside Pensacola, FL. He offered to assist with any questions I may have concerning AR's and such and generally seemed like a good guy. This is the type business I like to trade with, especially when his prices compare to the big guys like Brownells.
He said he doesn't have the bucks to advertise, so word-of-mouth is his best bet..... so I figured, like in Dan's above's post, I'd pass on my experience to the group also.
Sound like you had the exact same experience with him as I did. I can guarantee I will be a repeat customer. Wish I had a local business like his to work with. Closest I have is across the state from me.
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Sound like you had the exact same experience with him as I did. I can guarantee I will be a repeat customer. Wish I had a local business like his to work with. Closest I have is across the state from me.
Got the mags today before lunch.
Can't beat that...... ordered Monday afternoon and received Wednesday before lunch. The only way I could have done better would have been to meet him halfway (he's about 275 miles from me in Pensacola).......and any other option for faster service would have cost triple the $5 shipping.
I'm happy, happy, happy!! :D
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Where's a good place to get the pmags?
www.palmettostatearmory.com (http://www.palmettostatearmory.com) runs frequent specials.
http://www.tomahawkweaponsystems.com/ (http://www.tomahawkweaponsystems.com/) This is a local guy for me. Call Nate, he has low overhead and pass on that I referenced...if no answer leave a message he'll get back to you. Sometimes he's got a contract and a truckload of whatever. When he sell's his AR's he'll go to the range with a newbie and show them the basics of how to run them....a great guy.
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Thanks. I should have included..."Where's a good place to get 15 round pmags"? Because that's the max we can be trusted with in NJ for now. There's a semi-local guy who is putting together metal 20's pinned for 15 rounds and they get rave reviews. He's on the way from my daughter's house so I'm probably going to stop tomorrow and pick up a couple to try them.
I like the plastic better so far, but I"ll give the metal a chance.
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Thanks. I should have included..."Where's a good place to get 15 round pmags"? Because that's the max we can be trusted with in NJ for now. There's a semi-local guy who is putting together metal 20's pinned for 15 rounds and they get rave reviews. He's on the way from my daughter's house so I'm probably going to stop tomorrow and pick up a couple to try them.
I like the plastic better so far, but I"ll give the metal a chance.
I've got both. The metal mags run fine, I just like the p-mags better. But there is nothing wrong with a GI mag.
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I like the plastic better so far, but I"ll give the metal a chance.
Jay,
Plastic mags drop free much better than metal overall....they just do. At training this Friday we were working on reloads and....the metal mags cut into your fighting time. We were putting one round in the chamber with an empty mag to practice the reloads and the metal mags were always slower. Any lower I get from now on will have an enhanced mag well to speed things up too.
Go with plastic...keep the lips in good shape by using the keepers.
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Jay,
Plastic mags drop free much better than metal overall....they just do. At training this Friday we were working on reloads and....the metal mags cut into your fighting time. We were putting one round in the chamber with an empty mag to practice the reloads and the metal mags were always slower. Any lower I get from now on will have an enhanced mag well to speed things up too.
Go with plastic...keep the lips in good shape by using the keepers.
Thanks for the reassurance.
I just got seven P-Mags.
The reviews I have read are all pretty much rave reviews, but it is always better to hear it from 'family'.... ;) :D
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I have a number of 'Black' Homeland defense rifles.
I have switched to H&K style rifles for my rifles (I have a CETME in 7.62 NATO and a C-93 in .223)
I want a PTR 91 in 7.62 NATO with a welded scope rail and a PTR 32 in 7.62x39 when they fix the metal mag issues
I have hated AR's since the 1970's and have not been convinced they have improved enough
AK's are my recommendation for a homeland defense rifle on the cheap ($249 a case for ammo)
the AK 74 is better on ammo costs but mags are hard to find and if imported ammo dries up it is a problem
The PTR 91 is what I recommend for a 7.62 NATO, accuracy is about 1 MOA and it hits hard and is as reliable as an AK
In .223 the H&K is great but mags are $50 a pop
the AR is a better choice in .223 as far as price and accessories but I won't have one myself, your mileage may very.
Mini-14's, KelTec's, etc. are not cut out for SHTF use, too fragile in the long run
just my .02
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I have a number of 'Black' Homeland defense rifles.
I have switched to H&K style rifles for my rifles (I have a CETME in 7.62 NATO and a C-93 in .223)
I want a PTR 91 in 7.62 NATO with a welded scope rail and a PTR 32 in 7.62x39 when they fix the metal mag issues
I have hated AR's since the 1970's and have not been convinced they have improved enough
AK's are my recommendation for a homeland defense rifle on the cheap ($249 a case for ammo)
the AK 74 is better on ammo costs but mags are hard to find and if imported ammo dries up it is a problem
The PTR 91 is what I recommend for a 7.62 NATO, accuracy is about 1 MOA and it hits hard and is as reliable as an AK
In .223 the H&K is great but mags are $50 a pop
the AR is a better choice in .223 as far as price and accessories but I won't have one myself, your mileage may very.
Mini-14's, KelTec's, etc. are not cut out for SHTF use, too fragile in the long run
just my .02
Agreed, though more for accuracy than fragility in the mini-14's case. Mine ran great, the accuracy just sucked. The Kel-tec, well, its a kel-tec. Fine for a boat or truck gun, and plenty enough to say "Get off my lawn", but not for SHTF either.
MY only quibble is with your choice of the HKs,. They are great rifles, pricy but great, but the problem is mag and ammo availability. I'm not the ARs number one fan. You've heard me piss and moan about mine often enough. But its very (in fact surprisingly) accurate, its yet to to jam other than a FTF that I cleared by racking the charging handle, and most of all? If the zombies come there be plenty of battle field pickups in every cop car, and military unit and tons of private homes. Ammo, mags and parts. It ain't the ideal rifle by a long shot, but they're common as dirt, and for a "Holy Crap" gun? That's a huge plus. Its why I initially bought a Glock in 9mm when all the PDs issued them. Now I'd look at one in .40 for the same reason if I didn't have so many mags and a bunch of ammo. I'd rather have an AR with a dozen mags than an HK with one if things get unpleasant. On the range it would be the reverse, but since I can't afford both, I compromise and go AR. YMMV.
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WTH?
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/11/marine-corps-bans-polymer-rifle-magazines-112612/
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WTH?
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/11/marine-corps-bans-polymer-rifle-magazines-112612/
When I was at Parris Island our drill instructor told us "Uniformity is everything, you can show up for inspection with your dick hanging and get away with it if EVERY BODIES got their dick hanging out".
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I have both a 5.56 and .308 in AR platform. I tend to be on the skinny side. In the summer, with just a t-shirt the .308 gets to be not fun after about 10-15 rounds and I have to get my vest with a shoulder pad. Plus my .308 is a lot heavier to lug around. The 5.56 NATO I can shoot all day and is light and quick. 30 round mags are standard vs 20 round for the .308.
I'd go with the 5.56 if you are just to be going bang around at targets. ARs would not be my first choice for hunting. If you live somewhere with a lot of flat ground, a case might could be made for the .308 for longer ranges.
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I have done business with both these companies with great satisfaction.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/
http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/
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Mini-14's, KelTec's, etc. are not cut out for SHTF use, too fragile in the long run
just my .02
??
I can agree on the Kel-Tec...maybe....but not by a long shot on the Ruger Mini-14.
It is a sturdy platform.... heck it is a scaled down M14. I have one I bought back in the 80's that has fired so many rounds that I couldn't even estimate it. Never a hiccup with any type round and it is still all original (springs and all). The thing will shoot non-stop all day long and digest what ever it is fed. Like FQ notes, the accuracy after it heats up leaves a lot to be desired, so yes, that should be a consideration........ But if anyone asked me what American-made rifle is the Energizer Bunny of rifles in that caliber, then IMHO, the Mini wins.
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Went to a local gs today. BUSY! Lots of HSR and accessories at reasonable prices.
Richard
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WTH?
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/11/marine-corps-bans-polymer-rifle-magazines-112612/
I read that. I think the two sticking points are the plastic mag use in machine guns and...maybe the biggest thing...being uniform by using metal mags...bureaucracy abhors both individuality and new thinking.
The good thing about having access to such a variety in kit is that everyone can pretty much get the kit they like.