The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on January 03, 2011, 06:58:34 AM
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I have very limited experience with slugs. I carried a couple in my vest quail hunting in Tx. to deal with javelina. I even killed a couple of hogs using el cheapos out of a single shot modified cylinder. But for SD work with an 18" barrel Maverick in cylinder bore, what do I want? I'm not looking for fancy here, just a solid, hit a pie plate at 50 yards and under (probably sub 25 yards) round. I'm not looking for the best from a rifled bore, but a short smooth bore with no tubes. Thoughts?
Thanks
FQ13
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With a cylinder bore it's pretty much wide open. (No pun intended). Any of the Forester El-Cheapo $4.00 for a box of 5 will work well out to 50 yards in my Mossberg 500 with an 18" cylinder bore. You can also fire the more high priced solid Copper Sabot rounds if you choose to. A lot of them are meant for rifled barrels and or chokes, but I've gotten the "minute of pie plate" results easily, many times much better. The best thing to do is buy a 5 round box of several, then set up a big enough target at 50 yards and put the biggest "Shoot-N-C" stick 'em target you can find on it, then have at it. Aim dead center with all of them and see where they track.
Slugs are a bit funny that way. I don't know if it's the varying degree of rotational spin they seem to get subjected to from different barrels or what, but many will print differently. In many cases I've found the cheap Forester hollow base models shoot a bit truer in this regard. Back in the 70's Forester slugs was about all that was avaliable except for the Rottweil Brenneke slugs that had those "rifled" wads attached to them. That was big stuff back then. They were loaded into transparent cases and you could see the slug, wad, along with the powder charge. Back in Illinois during shotgun slug deer season you were considered a real "Magaffer", (guy who had to have the latest of everything), if you showed up in camp with Rottweil slugs in your gun. One slug I haven't tried are the Remington Solid Copper Sabot models. I forget the trade name Remington has put on them, but they are big bucks, and everything I've read on them has been good. Especially for defensive shooting. I would never use slugs for that purpose simply because out here the houses take nothing to penetrate. Bill T.
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Thanks Bill. Could you or someone give a primer on slug types? Forrester, rifled, sabot etc.? I really haven't looked into them at all over the years,as they were never really an option for hunting. I just used a rifle. Now, I feel that this was an error as I want to have them as an SD option in my riot gun. Its not geared for hunting accuracey, just good enough for down the street type ranges. Just a basic bestiary of what they offer, and pros and cons with various barrel types would be helpful.
Thanks
FQ13
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Fiocchi still loads the old Breneke type slugs which have always performed very well for me.
This are rifled slugs which have an attached basewad....very accurate in the Rem 870 I used to shoot them from.
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The best I've found are the Federal 'Tru-ball' they're not very expensive and they are impressively accurate in a smoothbore.
There is some kind of a plastic ball behind the slug - it seems to somehow make'em fly more straighter
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Thanks Bill. Could you or someone give a primer on slug types? Forrester, rifled, sabot etc.?
Thanks
FQ13
http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm
This is a link to a Chuck Hawks article on the different shotgun slug types. It's a pretty good one overall, and he covers most of the major types. Slugs, like a lot of things have gotten complicated in the last 10 to 15 years. A lot like "modern muzzle loading" has. There have been a plethora of new designs, types, and even some highly specialized slugs that have come on the market in recent years. Most notably the solid Copper Sabot rounds. Federal, Winchester and Federal all produce them in one size, shape, style or another. These are very expensive, some costing over $3.00 per round. Depending what you're going to do with them, they can be very effective. Many of them are just about ideal as large Bear defense rounds.
Overall it's hard to beat the old Forrester rounds. They offer the most "bang for the buck", so to speak. The shoot well from most any shotgun or choke combination. They fly like a badminton shuttlecock and don't require any spin as they fly nose forward because all of the weight is in front. I never understood why they call them "rifled" slugs. Most likely because of the angled lead bands or "rifling" they have on the sides. These don't put any spin on the projectile, so there really isn't any direct purpose for them. Just something that stuck, and remained to this day. Look for sales on them. Midway often offers volume sales on the Winchester 2 3/4" Military Slug loads. These are the Forester type loads, and they are avaliable quite cheaply. They're a lot of fun to play with. Bill T.
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Everything I've ever read about them said that sabot slugs in a smoothbore is a waste of money. They were made for rifled barrels and you won't get the full capability from a smoothbore. Some will have the same accuracy as rifled slugs but at a much higher cost.
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With a cylinder bore it's pretty much wide open. (No pun intended). Any of the Forester El-Cheapo $4.00 for a box of 5 will work well out to 50 yards in my Mossberg 500 with an 18" cylinder bore. You can also fire the more high priced solid Copper Sabot rounds if you choose to. A lot of them are meant for rifled barrels and or chokes, but I've gotten the "minute of pie plate" results easily, many times much better. The best thing to do is buy a 5 round box of several, then set up a big enough target at 50 yards and put the biggest "Shoot-N-C" stick 'em target you can find on it, then have at it. Aim dead center with all of them and see where they track.
Bill T.
+1
Best shooting slugs in my 1300 Defender (18" cyl bore) are the cheap Remington 2 3/4" 1oz slugs. They will hold minute of milk jug at 50 fairly easily.
Lucked up several years ago and Sportsman's Guide had them on sale for $1.87 per 5-round box. I ordered 10 boxes of them along with 10 boxes of 00 Buck (same price). Now they push $5.00 per box, still kinda cheap, depending on how much you shoot.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=86264
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Not trying to get too far off subject, but is a cylindore bore required for shooting fullsized slugs? Looking at FQ's original post, I would have to say not necessarily. Howevever, my Nova didn't come with a cylinder choke, and I would hate to launch part of the barrel with the slug.
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Not trying to get too far off subject, but is a cylindore bore required for shooting fullsized slugs? Looking at FQ's original post, I would have to say not necessarily. Howevever, my Nova didn't come with a cylinder choke, and I would hate to launch part of the barrel with the slug.
I have read that Improved Cylinder works really well on rifled slugs. I used cylinder bore because that is what the gun came with (Winchester 1300 Defender, 8-shot).
Here is some more useful info on slugs and such:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot46.htm
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Down the street accuracy FQ? In Palm Beach County? Really? ::) The 585gr 2 3/4" Remington Sluggers get minute of pie plate in my 870 no problem to 50 yds. Plenty of power, devastating chunk of lead.
+1 to Peg's post.
For closer stuff, get the Winchester Ranger 00Buck 9 pellet, with reduced recoil. What a difference!!!! I put one in the tube, and slap loaded a Federal 00Buck from an open action to get a "head to head" comparison.. There is a pleasant reduction of kaboom. and the standard silhouette head shot I was aiming at, 10yds, had 9 holes that looked like pistol rounds. Plus the wad smacked em' also.
billt is right about the Forester. and the Fiocchi are great.
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I have read that Improved Cylinder works really well on rifled slugs. I used cylinder bore because that is what the gun came with (Winchester 1300 Defender, 8-shot).
Here is some more useful info on slugs and such:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot46.htm
Thanks.
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Down the street accuracy FQ? In Palm Beach County? Really? ::) The 585gr 2 3/4" Remington Sluggers get minute of pie plate in my 870 no problem to 50 yds. Plenty of power, devastating chunk of lead.
Its why I haven't much experience with them. This was just me thinking that in the event of a Katrina type storm it might not be a bad idea to be able to load for looters who are a ways off without resorting to throwing a lot of .556 around. Honestly, I never expect to use the stuff past sighting in. Its why I specified cheap and adequate. Still, better to have a couple of boxes than not.
FQ13
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http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/14316-5.html
http://www.luckygunner.com/12-ga-2-3-4-low-recoil-slug-rio-royal-star-5-rounds
Good Buy.
5 for 5
http://www.luckygunner.com/12-ga-2-3-4-7-8-oz-high-velocity-rifled-slug-remington-slugger-5-rounds
Always good to have a stash of slugs at hand...
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The rule of thumb that I was always told about Slugs and Chokes was that anything tighter than Modified was strictly a big no no.
I have personally seen a Rem 870 screw in Full choke which split after someone fired slugs through it....and have had experienced shotgunners from states that only allow slugs for deer who say a slug fired through a fixed choke gun tighter than Modified will open up the barrell and ruin the choke.
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The "Rifling" on a slug isn't to impart spin it's so the soft lead slug will swage down through a tight choke.
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I have had good luck with these. Shot both targets and hogs with them out of an 870 with cylinder choke.
FEDERAL PART NUMBER # LE127RS
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The "Rifling" on a slug isn't to impart spin it's so the soft lead slug will swage down through a tight choke.
True. At least that was, (is), the intended purpose. It isn't really necessary however because the soft lead skirt on a Forester type slug is so thin you can push them through a full choke with just a cleaning rod. I took one apart and tried it once. It took some effort, but I was able to do it with a cheap 3 piece Outers Aluminum rod. Bill T.
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I use the Breneke KO's, they say right on the box for rifled or smooth barrels and are at least "minute of pie plate" - I like that so I think I'll use it as well. Most of my SD shotguns only have a bead but the one I have with ghost rings is actually very accurate with those slugs. My latest favorite SD shotgun load is the Centurian load, I got them from cheaper than dirt. It's one .650 ball with I think six #1 buck balls around it. I've tried it out to 50yds and the big ball is always pretty well near center mass on a standard IDPA type target with at least 4 of the six baby balls on target every time, usually with about a 12"-15" spread.
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1. Remington Sluggers 2 3/4"
2. Winchester Super X
In my 870 smoothbore the Remingtons will shoot approx 3" at 100 yards
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I am as closely as I can describe, a shotgunner "by nature". No matter what the issue, no matter where, at what range, etc...I ANSWER with a shotgun in my hand....Yes, I might reach for a pistol or a rifle after a millisecond of analysis, but on my way TO the door, I already have my Winchester 1300 smooth / i.c.
Google dDupleks Monolit. They ain't cheap, but they AIN'T GOLD, either. I am CONFIDENT out to 150...oh, yeah, and as close as across the kitchen, too. This GIVES ME that millisecond to rethink my weapon choice, and if need be, retreat to cover and GET it.
I have, and have had, many shotguns over the years. Singles, doubles, breaks, bolts, pumps, semis, rifled, smooth...by at least a dozen makers. I have used just about EVERY size, shape, and weight of projectile you can find...shot, slug, sabot, frangible, buck, bb, bismuth, steel....you see where this is going, I'm sure...Someone got me on to these some months ago, and I CANNOT think of a reason to "reconsider" another load for my "next-to-the-door" shotgun. Well...I CAN, but only to load some rubber-ball ammo to use at that "frisky" time of year...and I have another piece JUST FOR that...