The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Building America's Rifle => Topic started by: jaybet on January 15, 2014, 11:22:53 AM
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I am going to start looking into an AR build for Maggie. She's gained some weight lately and is almost 100 pounds soaking wet, so a rifle for her is "weight sensitive".
I'd like to build the lightest possible 5.56 which she'd use for target shooting, plinking etc. I won't get heavy use so while reliability is always important, WEIGHT is the #1 consideration. I'm going to do a build but each assembly is going to have weight as a major consideration.
Do any of you have suggestions on how to do this?
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a few things come to mind. 1 is balance, it does not matter how light it is, if it balances like shit it will suck. 2 i would not cut weight by going to a super thin barrel. yes you want something thin, but once it gets hot it will shoot all over the place. I would just shop around AL parts and see which is the lightest and go from there. often AL is lighter then plastic( but not always)
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build or buy a standard rifle in carbine or mid. I prefer the mid gas myself. Midwest industries makes a super ligt drop in quad rail if you want somehing like that. Then buy a .22 upper for the practice plinking and reserve the 5.56 for the shtf scenario. I love shooting my ar rifles regardless of caliber but for the smaller framed people in the family the .22 is great, and I have a good quantity in supply. My preference was to avoid the conversion adapters due to the filth of the .22.
I went with the chiappa upper but there are better. I may go to a dedicated tac-sol one of these days. Black dog mags work great, avoid the chiappa mags.
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Look into the Carbon Fiber versions.
But remember, lower weapon weight equals higher recoil from the same round than what you would feel from a standard weight AR.
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Is 5-1/2 pounds light enough? http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/carbon_15.asp I don't think you can build one lighter.
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Hey JB, in building an ar15, the heaviest components are the barrel, upper and lower receivers, bolt carrier, buffer, butt stock configuration, steel front sight base. The things that are available in a lighter version are the barrel, and there is a consideral difference in lengths chosen, 16 vs 18 vs 20 inch, all other dimensions being equal. For my very light but reliable, yet accurate rifle, I would use the following.
1. Lothar Walther 16 in. very light stainless barrel, 199.00 factory direct.
2. A3 upper, standard lower, I like DPMS, but there are many quality units available.
3. An alloy gas manifold, low profile, if a front sight is not important, I like JP.
4. A CAR15 butt stock, standard milspec, there are better, but it's adequate and light.
5. DPMS quad rail, carbine length full float tube, good quality and very reasonable cost.
6. Enodine or Brownell hydraulic buffer, less recoil and spring noise.
There are titanium bolt carriers, high dollar, lighter receivers, alloy high dollar, polymer, not proven enough yet. Standard flash hiders are light, but muzzle brakes aren't.
Hope this helps.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
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Hey Benny, good to see you back!
I posted this on the Jay's first thread on Tac Rifle...so I copied and moved it here. Feeling guilty, I'm the one who suggested a thread for Building America's Rifle.....
I have purchased several Mag Tactical lowers. http://magtacticalsystems.com/ (http://magtacticalsystems.com/) And you can get them in pink for the XYL too!
Their uppers (4.8 ounces) and lowers (5.88 ounces) are 35% lighter than aluminum because they are a magnesium alloy. That saves 3-1/2 ounces. I had to shave off some of a Geissele trigger because it rubbed the lower a bit and the pin holes are strengthened, but it works great.
I ran it at a 2 day carbine class in Texas run by Larry Vickers and it ran fine. However....I don't have the Mag Tactical upper on mine since they were unavailable and mine's a DMR with a heavier 18" barrel anyway. Keep in mind it has magnesium in it's makeup...you probably don't want to grind on them and the finish is not standard which is also because of the magnesium I suppose.
Now that they are taking orders for uppers again...I'm putting one on order for a standard M4 16" barrel design.
Now...if an adjustable stock is not necessary then you may be interested in GWACKS Cav-15 plastic lower. http://www.gwacsarmory.com/index.php (http://www.gwacsarmory.com/index.php)
They claim almost a pound less than the standard non-adjustable stocks....I don't know how to compare that, overall, to the adjustable stocks right now because I don't know the weight of the pistol grip and collapsible stocks mounted on a receiver. However....they do make the claim that their receivers are won't break under heavy impact like aluminum and you don't have to worry about corrosion.
They have several different colors...maybe not pink though...however they can be Cerakote'ed or Duracoated. I have not run one...I've held them and like them. I do know a couple of the people that run them and they like them who are very experienced in AR's from overseas battle and from their gun/training businesses back home.
Choices, choices, choices......
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I posted a reply here that didn't take...maybe it's still floating around with some of those voice messages I never got...at NSA hq or something.
Anyway, All good stuff and I thought those other one piece lowers Rastus suggested might work out with the CAV 15 config.
Benny, it's good to see you out and about in the gun advice world again buddy.
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Jay,
Not sure if you are building completely from scratch or using a complete barreled upper. Spikes, Rock River, PSA and I'm sure others make lightweight uppers in Midlength configurations. I prefer midlength over carbine length gas systems. Aim Surplus, PSA, and JoeBob Outfitters frequently have them available at decent prices and sometimes run specials on them. Are you looking for a rail fore end, free float, or a more traditional style plastic for end?
Benny, glad to see you again.
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I'm not sure WHAT I'm looking for yet...I've seen a lot of complete uppers and lowers, but this started out as a project for me, so I'm probably not going to cave in for "populated" chunks. As far as configuration, I already have a tall front sight gas block setup and I'm thinkiing this should be a low profile rig to simplify adding an optic. It won't have a lot of equipment hanging off of it, so simple furniture will be best.
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FYI
Palmetto State Armory has stripped lowers for $49. I don't think I ever saw them that cheap even before things went crazy.
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The combination of a GWACS Armory CAV-15 lower and MAG Tactical Systems upper looks like the best choice for light weight so far. Personally I think I'd go with forged aluminum and try to save weight elsewhere like the barrel.
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You mean instead of GWACS?
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I may very well be wrong but I was thinking the CAV-15 lower should be a couple ounces lighter because it has fewer pieces.
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GWAKS claims it drops a whole pound off the rifle! Another thing I'm starting to like about it is simplicity. When Maggie looks at it she'll see the one piece, not a bunch of parts that look like they might need to be dealt with in some way. Just a cleaner look
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OK Jay, where are you on the project now? Palmetto State had stripped MagTactical lowers for $90 last weekend.
Edit---Mag Tactical has uppers for sale again. They sell a complete rifle weighing 4.8 pounds. http://magtacticalsystems.com/index.php/rifles/product/231-air-15-recon#specs (http://magtacticalsystems.com/index.php/rifles/product/231-air-15-recon#specs)
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Rastus, I'm NOWHERE on the build so far. Family things and taxes are slowing down the whole process, but I'm still looking around. I really appreciate the input.
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https://www.facebook.com/113400445350530/photos/a.397125883644650.97619.113400445350530/766564206700814/?type=1
Aero is taking input on interest for a production run of skeletonized lowers right now. Definately not for me but certainly interesting.
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Wow. The Mag Tactical is about 1.5 pounds lighter than the Carbon15 with an aluminum upper. I didn't think anything that light was possible.
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And twice as expensive!
Richard
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I didn't see the price on that before. It's out of my league.
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The price is way high...but I saw a Mag Tac lower for $89 at Palmetto State last weekend and they sell the uppers for about $169...then you can piece it together to get the cost way down.
Also...that Aero lower is interesting....
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I'm progressing on my "light" carbine build. Got the MagTac lower and upper, a Wilson combat single set trigger. Went with the MagPul MOE stock but got heavier with a nickel boron BCG from Palmetto State.
Looked at some barrels and I've decided to go with hammer forged and a pencil barrel at 14.5" then weld on the flash suppressor for the legal 16". I guess I need to get my Class 3 dealer to handle that part to be legal. The barrel looks to be in the 1.5 lb class from Daniel Defense. I'm sticking with the Geissele forend that I can put rail where I want it.
Now all I need is the cash to progress....
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Sounds good BUT there are Carbon fiber forends that accept rails where you want them that will save weight.
As for the barrel I think you are fine as long as it doesn't go on the rifle until after the flash suppressor is welded on. I'm thinking along the lines of 80% lowers and AR Pistols. Having all the ingredients to make something doesn't make the ingredients illegal (although the BATFE may disagree ::) )
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OK...just a bit more research and I ended up with a Spikes Tactical barrel. It come in at 1.35 lbs and is built for them by FN to SAW standards...it has double chrome and is hammer forged. That's the one for me.
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So here I am months later.... Maggie says, "I want you to build me a rifle for Christmas". Gotta love that girl. But, then she also changed her mind and wanted a gopro camera to take kayaking with her, because she sees so many cool birds and stuff.
Then she realized that the best bird seasons are almost past and she could get the camera for her May birthday, so now we're back to an AR. I'm on it!
So as you know we live in NJ and the news coming out of NJ RE: 2nd Amendment rights is surprising even ME for it's sheer stupidity and facism. So I'm being careful. Looks like the only tricky part is the muzzle device.
I have a local gunsmith who is helpful but he stopped doing "compliance" work when the state po po came for an inspection and gave him a huge ration of shit because their "nearly undefined" regulations on compliance were being aggravated that day. So he just stopped doing that kind of work.
Found a guy up the road who will do the weld on the brake (can't have flash hiders and can't have a threaded barrel- welded brake fixes that). So that's cool.
On to the gun.
I know I was looking for really light, but the diff between really light and passably light is not that great, considering the cost of some stuff.
So here's the basics.
Based on what Maggie likes (we're talking "looks" here) the gun has to be all black. If there's any pink she will kill ME with it. So I copped out and bought an upper assembly from Custom Built Arms. The reason I ended with them is a bit of a mixup, but I was a pest and they are VERY accomodating.
We're going with 16" 223 Wylde, chrome lined barrel, a low profile gas block, and a quad rail for accessorizing.
She has the whole "right-handed, left-eyed"thing going on so I figure a red dot sight will work best for her. No iron sights right now.
For weight (and she likes the look) we went with the GWAKS Cav-15 MKII lower/stock assembly.
I went to PSA for bolt carrier group, charging handle and lower parts. I figure I will polish every thing that counts before it goes into the lower.
The upper comes with a flash hider but they are throwing in a muzzle break instead and eating the shipping so I'm ok. I have to run up north to the NJ everyone thinks of when you say, "new jersey" to get the brake welded but it's a "do it while you wait" and I like coffee and donuts so I don't see a problem.
Thanks for letting me share guys. This is still the best gun forum. I'll post an update when we get going.
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Your sweetie sounds like a keeper! ;D
I gotta admire your tenacity Jaybet for,
1. staying in NJ
2. building an OMG!! AR15 in NJ.
3. staying in NJ.
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It's what I do to keep the Sweetie. Would have been gone a long time ago if she would leave.
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Your sweetie sounds like a keeper! ;D
I gotta admire your tenacity Jaybet for,
1. staying in NJ
2. building an OMG!! AR15 in NJ.
3. staying in NJ.
Well, the Bible does call for one to be longsuffering. ;)
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Ok, so I finished this interesting little carbine for Maggie the other day and we test fired it...all systems GO!
It did not turn out to be as light as I had hoped...including optic it weighs in at 7 lb, 2 oz. But that's not bad. It is also NJ compliant, which is basically an assload of silliness, but I don't like jail so compliance is happily achieved. Here's the rifle:
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll237/jaybethel/20140913_131531_zpsac282e2e.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/jaybethel/media/20140913_131531_zpsac282e2e.jpg.html)
I know it's a little odd looking but it really works for her and I love the thing...I'm jealous. It's maneuverable and sights up quick.
If anyone is interested (since I've been playing with video lately) I made a 9 minute video that includes parts description, and the first trip to the range. That can be found here:
http://youtu.be/D0nJP96WTAQ
I really enjoyed researching and working on it. Wish I had money to do one a month.
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That's a sweet looking carbine and a good video. You should be able to get her an eye patch at any drug store.
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I found both 3/4" and 1" aluminum risers made by UTG on Amazon. The 3/4" is a two-piece set with each about two inches long, and the 1" is a single piece about six inches long.
Great looking rifle!!
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Jumbo: She wants a pirate eye patch, though.
Peg, thanks for the lead...I was looking around at risers but it was actually working for her as-is, so I'm going to hold off till she shoots it more and see what's what.
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These guys are working on a sub 4lb. rifle :o
http://jerkingthetrigger.com/2014/09/19/latest-on-the-badbrentwood-gunsmithing-oip-carbine-a-sub-4-pound-ar-15/
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Wow. I wonder though, what else they're going to do. Most of the weight is in the barrel.
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Check out this handguard!
This is some light stuff. Anyone here ever hear about these guys and how their product's hold up?
https://brigandarms.com/our-technology/ (https://brigandarms.com/our-technology/)
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I would have to see how that feels before I bought it. I don't think I would like it.
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Yeah, me either. But it's not for me...
I like the UTG pro model...it's slim and affordable.