The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on November 26, 2009, 08:24:16 PM
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Ok. We have beaten the question of "Which shot size do I use for SD?" to death at least twice. Lets assume that we are going with the consensus default of 2 3/4"" 00 buck in 12 gauge. Given this, what do we load? The Box O' Truth has demonstrated that, counterintuitivley, the low recoil loads pattern signifigantly tighter at close range than standard buck. Is this good or bad? What about magnum shells? I've seen little info on them. Lets assume a 5 yard distance (across a big living room) and maybe needing to penetrate some dry wall if you are barricaded. Forget across the street and through a windshield. That's the cop's problem, not ours. Which type and brand (if you think it matters) do you reccomend and why?
FQ13 who hopes to hear from some experts (maybe even Rob if that damn Mexican rock hasn't screwed him up too badly). ;D
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Try them and tell us what you find out.
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Try them and tell us what you find out.
You buy the shells, and I'll give the rage report. ;D The point of the forum is that cheap SOBs like us can learn from others experience (paging Mr. Pincus and Mr. Bane, USAA1 et al.). ;)
FQ13
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I bought low recoil shells because I don't think they over-penetrate as bad.
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Low recoil for practice if you shoot alot, standard for business.
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FQ13,
Let me save you some time. The absolute best 00 Buckshot load I've ever tried is a relatively new load from Federal.
It's labeled as Federal Premium LE Ammunition, Tactical Buckshot with (and this is very important) Flitecontrol Wad.
It's 9 pellet 00 Buckshot at 1,145 fps. The product code is LE132 00.
I can just about keep all 9 pellets in the A-zone of an IPSC target at 25 yards with my 14" Benelli shotgun. It is without a doubt the tightest patterning 00 Buckshot load I've ever used.
I recommend it above all others.
USSA-1
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FQ13,
Let me save you some time. The absolute best 00 Buckshot load I've ever tried is a relatively new load from Federal.
It's labeled as Federal Premium LE Ammunition, Tactical Buckshot with (and this is very important) Flitecontrol Wad.
It's 9 pellet 00 Buckshot at 1,145 fps. The product code is LE132 00.
I can just about keep all 9 pellets in the A-zone of an IPSC target at 25 yards with my 14" Benelli shotgun. It is without a doubt the tightest patterning 00 Buckshot load I've ever used.
I recommend it above all others.
USSA-1
Bow and worship!
:)
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"14" Benelli shotgun" :o
Cool stuff! What is the intended purpose of the 18" law anyway? Got a pic of the Benelli? I'm wondering how you got it so short!? I don't think the Benelli's they sell to the public could even be modified to that length if you had the permits to do it.
Still, cool stuff!
Rev.: I found pics of them. NICE!
Only thing 14" on mine is the length of pull. ;D
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USAA1
Thanks for your response, it does save time and money. Now, to prove that no good deed goes unpunished, I'll ask you another question. What will a 14" barrel do that an 18" won't? I would have said short range spread, but your report says that's not the case. Is it just concealability, or am I missing something?
FQ
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USAA1
Thanks for your response, it does save time and money. Now, to prove that no good deed goes unpunished, I'll ask you another question. What will a 14" barrel do that an 18" won't? I would have said short range spread, but your report says that's not the case. Is it just concealability, or am I missing something?
FQ
I'll say it's for ease of movement inside tight places buildings and such
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I do you one better than a pic, here is a quick video of me running my 14" Benelli. 5 rounds of 00 Buck in about a second.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6j0fKENbeU
What will a 14" barrel do that an 18" won't?
Its a little easier to manuver around confined spaces in a house or when deploying from a vehicle, that's really about it. Optimal spread pattern can be achieved many ways. Using this ammunition in my 14" extends my effective spread range from about 20 yards to close to 40 yards without any other changes or custom shotgun work. It's really the easiest and cost effective method for improving performance from your shotgun.
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You guys put a LOT of lead on target in a hurry!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAy-HyEFHC8&feature=related
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Thank you Eric for the heads up on 12g ammo.
After I win the Powerball, Can I set up an RV and live at USSA for a month or so?
8)
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Dang it Erik, I bought a case of Hornaday reduced recoil Tap, now its outdated, and I'm not going to get near the price I paid for the Tap.
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I would like to see a side by side comparison because I was floored when I saw the performance of the TAP00, as a matter of face the TAP FPD(blackbox) out did the TAP LE(redbox) at 50yds. 18" and 7out of 8 pellets respectively on a USRA silhouette target.
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I would rather be shot by 00 buck. If some old lady shoots you with some number 7 bird shot in a confined room and you live to get to the hospital what do you think the doctor will say, well I found the plastic wad and hamburger. Try fishing out all of those little buckshot.
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Twyacht,
If you win the powerball and buy the yacht pictured in your avatar, you're gonna need some security to repel the pirates. I'd like to offer my humble services! ;D
I'm sure the TAP ammo works very well. I wouldn't feel limited by it in any way. Remember, there are many ways to improve the performance of your shotgun. Ammunition is just one of the options. TAP ammo is high quality stuff and I'm sure it will serve your needs.
USSA-1
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Twyacht,
If you win the powerball and buy the yacht pictured in your avatar, you're gonna need some security to repel the pirates. I'd like to offer my humble services! ;D
I'm sure the TAP ammo works very well. I wouldn't feel limited by it in any way. Remember, there are many ways to improve the performance of your shotgun. Ammunition is just one of the options. TAP ammo is high quality stuff and I'm sure it will serve your needs.
USSA-1
Get in line ;D
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Get in line ;D
Behind me!
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Get in line ;D
Dibs on Navigation! ;)
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Remember guys, shooting a shotgun across an average upper middle class living room is like shooting a slug, regardless of payload. Even a 1 OZ. Trap load will hit with a solid mass at 15 feet. Try shooting a 2" X 4" at 10 feet with a trap load and you'll see what I mean. Slugs, as well as buckshot in a cookie cutter house can easily over penetrate. Then your asking for trouble. You are responsible for wherever that slug, buckshot, or bullet goes. All the time, every time. My "house" shotgun gets nothing but trap loads. They are more than effective for most all home defense scenarios. Bill T.
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Dibs on Navigation!
I call the 50 cal. !
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I call the 50 cal. !
No problem Eric.....the Nav gets to program the Phalanx too!
;D
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billt,
Those are some very good observations. Regardless of what weapon system you decide to use, you must consider the environment you expect to operate within.
With respect to the suggestion of using Trap loads for home defense, I would respectfully reconsider your selection. While just about any shotgun round at contact distances will do tremendous damage, most shot loads lose their energy very rapidly. Additionally, the shot does not have the mass needed for reliable, adequate penetration of at least 12". Consider this, if you select a shotgun load that won't penetrate sheetrock, it's not going to penetrate 12" of human body either.
If you select a shotgun as your primary defense weapon and you have concerns about over-penetration, I would recommend using a #4 Buckshot load. #4 will still provide the necessary penetration needed to incapcitate an aggressor, but it will not penetrate as much as 00 Buck.
USSA-1
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I have trap loads for inside and standard for the yard.
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Somebody needs to give Erik a raise up there at USSA
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Somebody needs to give Erik a raise up there at USSA
Thanks!! I will pass your recommendation along!
USSA-1
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I'm behind on this, but here is what I do:
Wife's shotgun has trap loads with 1 1/8 ounce of #8, because she is comfortable with that load and not affraid of it;
My shotgun has #3, 3", because that is a load that will deter any animal that strays too close to the barns or pasture critters, and it isn't going to make any home invader too happy either.
Practicallity is the name of the game around our place. I can't have guns loaded for every possible situation and then try and pick the right one at the right time. These two guns are loaded with practical loads for us to use if and when needed.
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RE: TAPS and the Federal Law Enforcement buck, 6 of one, etc. We shot them side-by-side at GUNSITE, and the Hornady opened up a bit more (maybe an inch or so at 25 yards), but nothing significant. Off my Vang Comp 870 barrel, all the groups shrank by at least and inch or more at 25; the TAPS shrank more than that, which is what's in my shotgun.
We've been doing a lot of shotgun penetration tests for TBD, ad I'm still going to come down on the side of a shot load over any buckshot for apartment dwellers or anyone where penetration is a problem. I'm interested in getting some of the Winchester PDX 12-gauge loads — 3 pellets of buffered #00 and a 1-ounce slug — and see what they'll punch through.
I wish I could shoot a shotgun like Erik...the man is a true master of the beast!
Michael B
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didn't Dick Chaney shoot some smuck in the face or neck with a heavy chocked bird load at very close range. Stinks having a FUBAR memory.
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didn't Dick Chaney shoot some smuck in the face or neck with a heavy chocked bird load at very close range. Stinks having a FUBAR memory.
Harry Whitington, Attorney.....28 Ga bird shot.....mistook him for a quail..
(http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo283/tsbevins/harrywhittington_wideweb__470x3530.jpg)
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didn't Dick Chaney shoot some smuck in the face or neck with a heavy chocked bird load at very close range. Stinks having a FUBAR memory.
You don't shoot quail with a tight choked gun. Skeet or improved cylinder generally. What kind of Texan are you? ;)
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Guy shoots a lawyer, and makes THE LAWYER apologize and FQ STILL hates.
No pleasing some people :(
;D
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Harry Whitington, Attorney.....28 Ga bird shot.....mistook him for a quail..
(http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo283/tsbevins/harrywhittington_wideweb__470x3530.jpg)
There is a slight resemblance........ if ya squint with one eye and close the other......yeah, I can see that.
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You don't shoot quail with a tight choked gun. Skeet or improved cylinder generally. What kind of Texan are you? ;)
The relocated kind, they call my neighbors "MassHoles" so maybe its rubbing off. Krap!
There is only one cure for this ..........I'm coming North Tom! ;D
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The relocated kind, they call my neighbors "MassHoles" so maybe its rubbing off. Krap!
There is only one cure for this ..........I'm coming North Tom! ;D
Tom's going to leave a hole in the wire for me Tex! He knows we're here under duress.....I'm sure there's room for two...
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Tom's going to leave a hole in the wire for me Tex! He knows we're here under duress.....I'm sure there's room for two...
I have to worry about my family so watch your 6 after you cross the wire, besides i will need a hole big enough to fit a Uhaul truck filled with guns-n-ammo. So maybe announced front gate entrance. ;)
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I can clear up to 300 sq/ft of floor space, ain't much but it's heated and the roof doesn't leak.
Just look for where the Black helicopters are circling.
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Harry Whitington, Attorney.....28 Ga bird shot.....mistook him for a quail..
(http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo283/tsbevins/harrywhittington_wideweb__470x3530.jpg)
That was a 28 Ga. from double digit yardage. The man is very lucky to have both eyes. The entire side of his face is totally bruised. Now picture the very same scenario done deliberate with a 12 gauge trap load from 15 feet. End of fight! Bill T.