The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Teresa Heilevang on May 11, 2008, 11:45:04 PM

Title: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Teresa Heilevang on May 11, 2008, 11:45:04 PM: This has been available for some time.. but I only watched it last night after a friend gave me a copy of the DVD.
( They sell for $20)
It is long..... about an hour and a half..and might take a long time to download for some of you.( and maybe not)
. but believe me.. it will make you think and will make you mad... and sad and sick! ( And I was one of those that will say" I knew it.". I have known it was pretty much this way..and It doesn't surprise me at all.)
It does just scare the living bejesus out of me.. and frustrates me to know-end... And people wonder why there isn't any trust anymore? ::)

But WHAT do we do??!?? It is only getting worse.

Watch it and come to your own conclusions.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Outlaw on May 12, 2008, 09:26:03 AM: Makes ya think, don't it? ???
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Teresa Heilevang on May 12, 2008, 11:43:01 AM: Yep it shooore does..
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: pioneer on May 15, 2008, 06:39:20 PM: Not only nonsense, but bullshit! There is absolutely no way the government of the United States conspired with 19 Saudi hijackers to kill 3000 Americans. Just because some smooth talking guy with dramatic music and clever video editing says it's so, doesn't make it so. I've seen this video before and there is no proof offered. There are photo-shopped pictures, suggestions and suppositions, but no proof. Not only that, it just makes no sense. I've dealt with proof and evidence my entire adult life, and I see none in this video.

Sorry, I ain't buy'n it. Nor do I buy Hanger 18, Big Foot, the Loc Ness Monster or faked moon landings.

Some folks have too much time on their hands, and need to get a life.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Flags%20and%20Icons/39548723217645.jpg)
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Pathfinder on May 15, 2008, 07:14:23 PM: Quote from: pioneer on May 15, 2008, 06:39:20 PM
Not only nonsense, but bullshit! There is absolutely no way the government of the United States conspired with 19 Saudi hijackers to kill 3000 Americans. Just because some smooth talking guy with dramatic music and clever video editing says it's so, doesn't make it so. I've seen this video before and there is no proof offered. There are photo-shopped pictures, suggestions and suppositions, but no proof. Not only that, it just makes no sense. I've dealt with proof and evidence my entire adult life, and I see none in this video.

Sorry, I ain't buy'n it. Nor do I buy Hanger 18, Big Foot, the Loc Ness Monster or faked moon landings.

Some folks have too much time on their hands, and need to get a life.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Flags%20and%20Icons/39548723217645.jpg)

I have not watched the whole show yet, working on it. I tend to agree here, Pioneer, but just the same, I get skittish when I'm sitting on a plane at Minneapolis Airport and see the moosie running around the tarmac like they own the place - which in fact they may well do what with anti-discrimination laws and all. After all it is in Minneapolis where they had to convene a meeting to decide if the moosie cab drivers could discriminate against women, people with liquor and/or dogs.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Teresa Heilevang on May 16, 2008, 10:25:59 PM: Just put it up there to watch... Didn't ask you to believe it or to not believe it..
Just to watch it...............................

But for the record.. I have got more than several pms "thanking me" for putting it up..
and most of them are from men in the armed service. I won't go into what they said.. but my eyes were once again opened wide at some of the "inside "things and some of the thoughts and knowledge that were told to me.

Didn't mean to ruffle feathers.. just put it up so people could watch and form their own thoughts on it.
"My " own opinion is:
I don't think that the footage is photo-shopped. What actually happened? I don't know.. I wasn't there..
But then again... nothing surprises me anymore where government is concerned.
Doesn't mean I don't love my country.. I do.
Just means I don't trust the government. :-\
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: wisconsin on May 16, 2008, 10:37:21 PM: Because I love my country. Doesn't mean I have to love my goverment. Amen.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: brosometal on May 17, 2008, 12:18:13 PM: I wondered across this and was really suprised to find this here. I have to admit, I could not sit through the whole thing so I am shooting from the hip a bit.

Ockham's Razor. Look it up and live by it. It will help alliviate cospiracy wackiness. I, like the founding fathers, am no fan of government, but I have to ask a question. If these folk, hell, lump in all the 9/11 conspiracy folks, have stumbled on the truth, why do they still draw breath? I know if I was going through all the trouble of killing the people in the Pentagon etc. and some one found out and was now running around telling everyone who will listen... What's a few more to keep my actions covert? That's my thought, oh and the fact that the History Channel and Popular Mechanics (both shadow government shills I might add) have gone line by line, claim by claim and discredited the conspiracies.

That's all I have to say about that.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ichiban on May 17, 2008, 12:57:54 PM: I almost hate to do this.... almost
http://educate-yourself.org/ct/ (http://educate-yourself.org/ct/)

Comments?

BTW I prefer Hanlon's razor
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: 2HOW on May 17, 2008, 01:48:50 PM: Goes along with this new theory http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=6581
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 17, 2008, 03:05:40 PM: I put my faith in the lowest common denominator. "The Government can't keep their SPY operations secret. Something like this comes from people who watch to many episodes of X - Files.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Outlaw on May 17, 2008, 06:08:24 PM: Good points Pioneer. I agree it's a big stretch of the imagination. However; I wouldn't be so quick to rule out Hangar 18 and that line of thinking. I've seen things that curled my toes and it wasn't conspiracy theory. It was directly in front of me. It wasn't just once either. It certainly added credence to the term "they're out there". Having been raised on the farm in N.C. I never in a million years would have believed such phenomena. Just goes to show ya.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ron J on May 17, 2008, 07:51:44 PM: Know what a bunch of people are saying about this?
Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Thank you infidels for the great propaganda piece for our Islamic brothers in terror!

The conspiracy theories of 9/11 and OKC have been debunked so many times by multiple sources. Not so many half truths but flat out lies on this video. Yeah, makes you think … that anyone capable of feeding themselves would believe that our government would do this MUCH LESS be capable to pull something of this scale off.

You don’t want to believe in your government, fine. You want to believe in such propaganda, knock yourself out. What’s next? You want to believe that your government is conspiring at this very moment to pull another Waco off? Believe what you want. But you also might want to check your doctor to see if you can up your meds for your paranoia.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 17, 2008, 08:50:08 PM: Quote from: Ron J on May 17, 2008, 07:51:44 PM
Know what a bunch of people are saying about this?
Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Thank you infidels for the great propaganda piece for our Islamic brothers in terror!

The conspiracy theories of 9/11 and OKC have been debunked so many times by multiple sources. Not so many half truths but flat out lies on this video. Yeah, makes you think that anyone capable of feeding themselves would believe that our government would do this MUCH LESS be capable to pull something of this scale off.

You dont want to believe in your government, fine. You want to believe in such propaganda, knock yourself out. Whats next? You want to believe that your government is conspiring at this very moment to pull another Waco off? Believe what you want. But you also might want to check your doctor to see if you can up your meds for your paranoia.

I more or less agree with you except about Waco. Soldier of Fortune Magazine" got an investigative Journalism award for the work they did on the story, I've even seen them quoted other places, and their conclusion was that it was an atrocity commited by the Justice Dept. under Janet Reno.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Neon Knight Anubis on May 17, 2008, 09:28:16 PM: Don't know about this particular video (no patience) but many interviews these truthers use are taken completely out of context or pieced together in a way that it makes them believable; that's their usual pattern. Most have been proven wrong with just 5 min of research to find them in their entirety. Popular Mechanics has taken apart all the so called "physics" and "material properties" problems etc etc....

Anyway, believe what you want but I've seen enough evidence to convince me that this was a foreign born terrorist attack on our soil. Personally I agree somewhat with Micheal Scwauer (sorry can't spell his last name) former head of the CIA Bin Laden unit, but I'm not sure that our policies are entirely to blame though. I think there's more to it (a good deal more) but our ADD foreign policy that changes every 4-8 years hasn't really helped in these countries that were powder kegs to begin with. Play with fire and you're gonna get burned.

Back to the point our gov can't really keep secrets worth a damn, from what I'm hearing there's such a massive political civil war in the CIA that I'm surprised our spec ops guys can get anything done but that just proves the caliber of our military more than anything (ie. map fiasco in Grenada for one). Seriously if something this elaborate was created I doubt it would be a secret beyond a 48 hour window because somebody would leak it to the Washington Post before long. There's too many struggles for power in these agencies, and that has become a major problem but one for another time. I just don't think our government workers are that competent to begin with, most are paid barely livable wages so we aren't exactly getting the best and the brightest out there. Especially when people with some of these same degrees can make $100,000+ (not that much of an exaggeration BTW) almost right out of college in the private sector, okay after a few years anyway.

BTW I love me some old school X Files!! Can't wait for the summer!
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ron J on May 17, 2008, 09:50:25 PM: Quote from: tombogan03884 on May 17, 2008, 08:50:08 PM
I more or less agree with you except about Waco. Soldier of Fortune Magazine" got an investigative Journalism award for the work they did on the story, I've even seen them quoted other places, and their conclusion was that it was an atrocity commited by the Justice Dept. under Janet Reno.

My point on "another Waco" is that we can't be blinded by paranoia ... not that Waco was anything but a collaboration of sincere incompetence and gross misuse of power by Reno and those under her administration.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Neon Knight Anubis on May 17, 2008, 09:52:11 PM: Waco, whats that line from Cool Hand Luke? "What we have here, is a failure to communicate", man was that a FUBAR.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ron J on May 17, 2008, 10:10:18 PM: Personally I agree somewhat with Micheal Scwauer (sorry can't spell his last name) former head of the CIA Bin Laden unit, but I'm not sure that our policies are entirely to blame though.

Michael Scheuer. He has written several books and was in the CIA.

One of Scheuer’s tenants is that radical Islam doesn’t like our “foreign policies” and that one of the key issues that pissed Usama bin Laden off was that “infidels” touched down in Mecca during the first Gulf War.

While this did piss UBL off, we need to understand that radical Islam has been killing people for the sake of Islam since the days of Muhammad. It’s just not our foreign policies that drive their hate towards non-Muslims. Radical Islam believes they are on a mission from Allah to make every corner of the land Muslim.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Teresa Heilevang on May 17, 2008, 10:16:28 PM: Well.. *smile* ....Thanks for wondering about my medications.. but I take all of them on a daily basis... and I still hear those dang voices in my head..
;D ;D ;D ;D

Lighten up everyone..

Everyone has there own opinions on the government.. conspiracy's, UFO's and Bigfoot.

But I don't think I need meds cause I say that I believe amongst other things, that the Twin Towers was demolition set. I have talked to several explosive experts BEFORE I watched the video.. and even though you might not believe the whole of the message of the video... who can really believe that the way both buildings came down was..ahhmmm ...from a plane that hit the top floors? ::)

Sorry.. I'm blond and I may not be the brightest crayon in the box, but to ask me to believe that is just more than I can do.

and UFO's?
I have seen them.. ( and I wasn't by myself either) and it was so awesome.. all I could do was jump out of my jeep and stand in the middle of the dirt road and watch.

Bigfoot? Of course..

Nessie... I would imagine that there is lots in the waters that we as mere ignorant humans ( probably being some of the lower forms of intelligence in the universe) don't see or know or understand.

**Of course.. you all have to understand I have been joined at the hip with Marshal and Michael and Tupelo Flash(Ron Stein) and other crazy loonitics for
2 days and night.. and I have one more day to go.. *lord help me) *LOL
I swear.. It is a wonder we haven't been locked up in the crazy house. We haven't been kicked out of anywhere public.. YET! ::)
But we sure have laughed a lot ( in fact..so much that my head aches and my jaws hurt) and are having a great time in Kentucky. .. so maybe my mind is slipping .. LOL
;D :D ;D :D

Didn't mean to start a war with this thread.. just wanted to know what everyone thought.. Guess I found out. ;)
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Neon Knight Anubis on May 17, 2008, 10:37:39 PM: Totally agree Ron J, and thanks for the spelling correction (one of these days I'll remember it). I've studied some history of the Middle East and the politics of the region (only grad school course I liked) and the reason you stated is exactly why I don't think the problem lies exclusively with our past decisions.

Marshal'ette you didn't start a war and the tone of this thread is pretty civil so I don't think anybody has to be wondering about other people's meds at this point. Nessie and UFOs can be fun to believe in, to be honest I've probably seen most of if not all of those Discovery Channel shows about Lock Ness at one time or another.

..........wait did you say voices? :o
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 17, 2008, 10:49:30 PM: Stuff like this is where "legends " come from,They are "Conspiracies" today but in the future just another of "Histories Mysteries", was it REALLY John Wilkes Booth who died in that barn ? Who killed JFK ? Who assasinated Napolean ? They are fun to debate, but the TRUTH will never be proven beyond doubt.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 17, 2008, 10:50:31 PM: Quote from: tombogan03884 on May 17, 2008, 10:49:30 PM
Stuff like this is where "legends " come from,They are "Conspiracies" today but in the future just another of "Histories Mysteries", was it REALLY John Wilkes Booth who died in that barn ? Who killed JFK ? Who assasinated Napolean ? They are fun to debate, but the TRUTH will never be proven beyond doubt.

Yes, The Cubans, and No one. ;D
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ron J on May 18, 2008, 09:57:16 AM: But I don't think I need meds cause I say that I believe amongst other things, that the Twin Towers was demolition set. I have talked to several explosive experts BEFORE I watched the video.. and even though you might not believe the whole of the message of the video... who can really believe that the way both buildings came down was..ahhmmm ...from a plane that hit the top floors?

The scientific answer to your question about the planes hitting the top floor is yes. More on that in a minute.

Ironically, it was a month or so ago that I had a rather detailed "discussion" with a Palestinian who claimed the same proof that 9/11 was an "inside job". However, it was when I heard Jessie Venture claim that there was demolition involved in WT7 that caused me to start digging around for some information.

Sticking point conspiracy theorists and this video was the collapse of forty-seven story tall Tower 7. As to the collapse and what this video did not show (but other news videos did) was that Tower 7, had serious damage from the North Tower collapse. There was a ten foot hole in the center of the building and ten to twenty stories long gash on the south side. As well, this video did not mention that NIST reported that at least ten stories of the south side were “scooped out” from damage. There were also fires in this building and very likely that the twenty-two large oil filled transformers (which can go boom) between ground level and the 5th floor blew. Scientific evidence is very clear as to how and why Tower 7 collapsed. It was due to damage from the North Tower. Lastly, it was mentioned that if all this was all true, why did someone say “pull”? To this, the call to “pull” was made to pull FDNY out of that building. As the building had sustained serious damage and was starting to “moan”, orders were given to get people out of the building. This was confirmed by multiple sources but not mentioned in the video.

As to the Towers collapsing from the plane hits, keep in mind it was not the initial impact that caused the Towers to fall. It was from the fires that weakened the steel that caused the collapse. To note that there have been similar fires in other buildings around the world that had the same results as the Towers falling. Studies from Purdue, MIT and Cambridge all came to the same conclusions that the buildings were weakened by the intense fires and that is why they collapsed.

Yes, demolition “experts” have said the videos look like squibs going off as the buildings collapsed. But this has been proven false. One, there is an acre of space on each floor and that means an acre of air too. Collapse one floor and the “poof” is the air escaping. Firefighters even stated the “hurricane effect” this air had pushing people down stairwells. As well, there was no traces of explosives and given the amount of explosives that would have been needed to collapse these buildings, had any been used someone would have found some.

To date, no evidence supports demolition. There is no scientific evidence and there is no “smoking gun” that indicates “inside job”. These were attacks by Islamic radicals on our country that UbL praised in one of his tapes.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Neon Knight Anubis on May 18, 2008, 10:21:52 AM: I'm impressed, I could not have put it so eloquently. I'm willing to bet you did more than 5 min worth of research on this matter.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ichiban on May 18, 2008, 11:03:49 AM: If anyone is really interested, here's the link to the article Popular Mechanics did on the conspiracy theories.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html)

Not that that will change anyone's minds.

To quote Adam Savage (Myth Busters): "I reject your reality and substitute my own."
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ron J on May 18, 2008, 11:32:31 AM: Thanks Neon. Yes, I did spend some time researching both sides because I wanted to understand why and how Jesse Ventura, Rosie O’Donnell and others would say what they were saying about the events of 9/11.

What I found interesting if not amazing is how some really obvious facts regarding the events of 9/11 are usually left out of the conspiracy theories. As well, how many of the conspiracy theorists have changed/modified their conspiracy theories when new evidence became available. This really questions motive and credibility. Lastly, while several of the leading resources that conspiracy theorists looked at and quoted had engineering degrees, none of their degrees were related to structural engineering. In short, they didn’t really know dick to what they were trying to sell.

Not to insult anyone’s intelligence (which is something I am usually and regularly doing to myself!), but on the surface the conspiracy theories are very far fetched. Can you imagine the details to pulling off a disaster of this scale? How many people would need to be involved and would need to be eliminated due to the probability of someone talking? The quantity of explosives that would have been needed and no one noticed an extra ton of thermite sitting in the office down the hall?

Again, to date there has been no credible evidence that there were any explosives and/or that this was an inside job. Only evidence that has been found is that the attacks of 9/11 were the work of terrorists attacking our country. The link Ichiban posted as well as the MANY others out there from various sources debunk the conspiracy theories that are floating about.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Teresa Heilevang on May 18, 2008, 09:33:38 PM: Thanks for everyones input. :)
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ocin on June 17, 2008, 04:59:56 PM: Hello everybody,

if you would let me, i would like to put in my 5 eurocent worth of opinion in this (yes, i am from the Ueberliberal Kigdom of the Netherlands and since we have abolished the one and two eurocet coins this is the cheapest I can get).

First of all, i am from Amsterdam, Holland. About the planes into and the collapse of the Twin Towers, there is nothing I can add. But: some of you might recall 4th of october 1982 when an Israeli cargo plane crashed into an appartment building in Amsterdam. As a matter of fact, i did not see it happen but i was present on the scene even before the fire department was.

Now, about the Pentagon: a 757 is quite somewhat smaller as compared to a 747 and keep in mind that the Pentagon is built like a bunker. The hole in that apartment building was just 2 apartments wide which is 50 feet. Ok, i'll give you a hole of 75 feet. My point: the size of the hole being 65 feet in the Pentagon might very well be possible considering the damage a 747 can do on a commercially built apartment complex.

But: i do recall very vividly seeing the wreckage of the plane on the ground, seeing it's landing gear in the air ( hey, the thing is on it's back, and yes, they said it rolled over up side down before crashing) and 2 engines on one side of the aircraft (if it is a 747 where are the other 2 engines? And yes, they had fallen off before the crash and were located in a lake nearby).

My point? From what I have seen there should be a wreckage left from the aircraft, and even if it had desintegrated, well, they were able to rebuild the crashed 747 close to completion from the wreckage found on the scene. So, where is the crashed 757 that went into the Pentagon???
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: someguy on June 17, 2008, 09:03:41 PM: Ocin- Not being defensive, just asking, as I am not at all familiar with the incident to which you refer... Was the 747 full of fuel when it hit, and what was the estimated (or actual, if it's known) velocity of the aircraft upon impact? Could make a big difference in the comparison if those variables aren't the same.

Especially if the 747 pilots knew they had a problem and did a fuel dump prior to impact.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ron J on June 17, 2008, 11:10:16 PM: Ocin:

Every plane crash is different. Angle, speed, weight, fuel, what they crash into, etc. makes crashes a dynamic study. To any crash, the speed, angle and what a plane hits will determine how much of the plane can be put back together. Given the speed of the 757 that hit a robustly built building like the Pentagon, the pieces will not be so big.

They did find enough pieces (plane and human) including the black box to collaborate the eye witness testimonies that it was AA#77 that hit the Pentagon.

When you look at the conspiracy theories, you have to look at them like you would a “magic act” on TV. With the magic act, you’re not seeing everything you need to see. Same with what the conspiracy theorist put out. Look at the evidence.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ocin on June 18, 2008, 05:47:38 AM: Quote from: someguy on June 17, 2008, 09:03:41 PM
Ocin- Not being defensive, just asking, as I am not at all familiar with the incident to which you refer... Was the 747 full of fuel when it hit, and what was the estimated (or actual, if it's known) velocity of the aircraft upon impact? Could make a big difference in the comparison if those variables aren't the same.

Especially if the 747 pilots knew they had a problem and did a fuel dump prior to impact.

I don't feel attacked :)

But to adress your questions: the aircraft in question was an older type 747 cargo plane which was fully loaded (actually overloaded, which, according to the investigations contributed to the crash) and the pilot dumped most of his fuel.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ocin on June 18, 2008, 05:54:47 AM: Quote from: Ron J on June 17, 2008, 11:10:16 PM
Ocin:

Every plane crash is different. Angle, speed, weight, fuel, what they crash into, etc. makes crashes a dynamic study. To any crash, the speed, angle and what a plane hits will determine how much of the plane can be put back together. Given the speed of the 757 that hit a robustly built building like the Pentagon, the pieces will not be so big.

They did find enough pieces (plane and human) including the black box to collaborate the eye witness testimonies that it was AA#77 that hit the Pentagon.

When you look at the conspiracy theories, you have to look at them like you would a “magic act” on TV. With the magic act, you’re not seeing everything you need to see. Same with what the conspiracy theorist put out. Look at the evidence.

I agree, and let me make clear, i am just a civillian and as such in no way an expert. What you say about consipracy theory is quite correct. You compare it with a "magical act", I tend to look at it from the point of this point of view: "who is saying it and what is he/she gaining by saying it?

In this context, please note that the DVD sells for $ 20 which is here in Holland close to a common retail price for a recently released blockbuster movie. You think they are making money on this DVD?

But the point is of course that conspiracy theories exist by the grace of lack of information and answers, and in this there are a lot of information held back and a lot of questions yet to be answered.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 18, 2008, 08:24:04 AM: Quote from: Ocin on June 18, 2008, 05:54:47 AM
I agree, and let me make clear, i am just a civillian and as such in no way an expert. What you say about consipracy theory is quite correct. You compare it with a "magical act", I tend to look at it from the point of this point of view: "who is saying it and what is he/she gaining by saying it?

In this context, please note that the DVD sells for $ 20 which is here in Holland close to a common retail price for a recently released blockbuster movie. You think they are making money on this DVD?

But the point is of course that conspiracy theories exist by the grace of lack of information and answers, and in this there are a lot of information held back and a lot of questions yet to be answered.

One peice of confirmation of the Govt story. The Govt says Mohamad Atta and one of the younger hijackers drove from portland to Boston, and made a wrong turn in Portsmouth NH. I can confirm that as I passed them on the Spaulding Turnpike. It may not have been an accident though as they were just down the road from Pease trade port, a former SAC base it is now the major airport for the NH seacoast.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ron J on June 18, 2008, 09:02:48 AM: Ocin ...

In this context, please note that the DVD sells for $ 20 which is here in Holland close to a common retail price for a recently released blockbuster movie. You think they are making money on this DVD?

Great point. Someone is getting rich on this! People that produce these tapes/DVDs are one of two types of "true believers".

One, they sincerely believe this was a conspiracy by the US government. Despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, these “believers” actually think that US government is capable of pulling something of this scale off. To quote a line from the “Princess Bride”, that is “inconceivable”. Too much transparency to pull this kind of action off in any government much less the US. When you look at the various "theories" be sure to check their sources. For instance, several of them have sources that have no expertise in the fields they say they are "engineers" or PhD's in. They believe this to be true ... and some want to make a buck or two in the process. I actually have a lot less respect for these "believers" than the second group.

The second group of “true believers” are those from radical Islam producing propaganda. These are the folks that originally took credit for the attacks (UbL even praised them in couple tapes) but now want folks to think that the “religion of peace” is not capable of committing such acts of terror (yes, this is a big "what the f..k?" moment). Usually these are the easy ones to identify because they will without fail use the same catch phrases like we (the US) did this “to justify Bush killing millions of innocent Iraqi women and children”. Or they will manage to throw in what they consider to be a “zinger” on how the poor people in "Palestine have never done anything wrong to the wicked Zionist" (albeit most of the Palestinian “troubles” are self inflicted wounds from the boy-lover Yasser Arafat … but that’s another story).

Their primary objective with such propaganda is to influence attitude change about the US government. They want people to believe that the US government is capable of doing such an act because the US of A is "the great Satan". The more doubt they create, the easier it is to influence and this doubt opens the door their religious quest for “manifest destiny”. For example, voting for US candidates that are “surrender monkeys” to the war on terror which is a war against radical Islam. Radical Islam wants us to put elected officials in place that seek appeasement with them. If you have studied the Qur'an, you know what that means.

My point of view to this? f..k them and the pony that Mohammad rode in on. Their propaganda will not work. Their efforts to force Sharia Law to my zip code or "smite my fingertips off" will not work so well for them either.

But the point is of course that conspiracy theories exist by the grace of lack of information and answers, and in this there are a lot of information held back and a lot of questions yet to be answered.

To the contrary. There is TONS of evidence and information that has been released. This is in the form of what the US has stated in what are now public documents and from what several independent institutions here and abroad have published. Forensic evidence and physics are elements of the “magic-act” that the conspiracy theorists conveniently leave out. This is because the facts ... science and evidence ... negate their ability to make money or their ability to influence people.

Enough of my ranting. I'm off to my "happy place" ... a rifle range. I have a Sako Classic in .308 Win. (that you won't find in any Sako catalog) that has been sitting new & unfired in my safe for twenty years. I think it's time to "season" the barrel of this gorgeous rifle.
Title: Re: 911.. In Plane Site
Post by: Ron J on June 19, 2008, 07:38:23 AM: Enough of my ranting. I'm off to my "happy place" ... a rifle range. I have a Sako Classic in .308 Win. (that you won't find in any Sako catalog) that has been sitting new & unfired in my safe for twenty years. I think it's time to "season" the barrel of this gorgeous rifle.

Damn. Never made it to the range.