The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Building America's Rifle => Topic started by: Rastus on December 15, 2013, 08:36:09 PM
-
I'm all about AR's but there is something important that varies in every build depending on intended use. The trigger is what does it for me...mostly. For a close in carbine I love the Wilson Combat single stage trigger but for the DMR I built I went with a 2 stage Geissele because I didn't need the reset feel and the 2 stage is smooth.
That reset on the Wilson makes it fast, fast, fast to shoot. I think that's a lot more important on a close quarters AR than one that is a DMR. So...for my 16" bbl guns I'm retrofitting with a Wilson when I can afford it.
-
Agreed on your impressions of the WC Single stage. I have a 3lb Timney single stage and was asked at the range after popping off three rounds if it was a Class III Rifle and that I just squeezed off a three round burst. I proudly said it was just a good trigger.
-
You wouldn't think that is true but it really is. And the thing about it is that the exercise is controllable.
-
good trigger and good glass... both of my game rifles were put together when the RRA NM trigger was $75... so both have one... my JP single stage turned into a pull-release after about 3 years of 2-a-month rifle matches... most of my 1911s had 3 1/2# or better triggers so that is kind of what I'm used to ...for me, it is hard to beat a Trijicon 4x32 ACOG...when I got the TA31F, I did away with the roll over iron sights...
-
Les, man I like those ACOG's but they are too much gold for me right now. I can see where they would take away the rollovers. I am supposing the Aimpoint is too slow a distance from my use of an Aimpoint and brief exposure to a ACOG. I am guessing it's like the EOTech vs. the Aimpoint...past about 25 yards the Aimpoint is always quicker for me....and inside 15 yards the EOTech is hands down quicker for me while training.
Interesting to know about the JP trigger....did they fix it for you?
On a single stage I like the Wilson Combat trigger...I think it has a much better reset than the Geissele trigger...though I have the Geissele on my DMR build. Wilson jacked the price from $220 to $270 a year ago when things got crazy so I'm hoping it drops soon so I can put it in a new build.
-
More good info guys, thanks. The Bushmaster is tempting but part of the fun is I get to build, so that' out.
I've put this in the AR build thread too and Rastus suggested the GWAKS Cav 15 lower which is imipressive for weight AND strength. Might go that way. I think the barrel is going to be the tough part and also also in NJ we can't have a flash hider, only a brake (or vice versa, I gotta look that up).
The other thing is that I'm wondering about the trigger sets. Don't really want to spend 3-4 hundred on a trigger. Maybe just go standard issue and massage it a little?
Anyway, all good info. Thanks.
Benny... glad to see you back in the advice business buddy.
-
No way $300-400...way too much. I have the Geissele at around $225 on my DMR (Designated Marksman Rifle) and it's a really good trigger...Larry Vickers runs them in his personal guns. Now...what I want and don't have is a Wilson Combat single stage trigger.
Back last December or so Wilson Combat triggers went from $220 to $270...more than I want to spend. But man, I'm wanting to build a light rifle too and that Wilson trigger has the best reset I've ever felt. So...when I'm doing that training thing (ever so often) the reset is what counts...yes WC has a smooth clean and consistent break...but the feel of that reset really, really speeds up a string of shots. So...I know that from borrowing from a friend and despite it being $270 right now....I'm thinking I need to bite the bullet real hard and get one.
Palmetto State has the Hypertouch at a good price...but I don't know anyone that runs one. Maybe someone here can contribute. I suspect the Hypertouch is pretty good because those guys at Palmetto State seem to run a straight up shop.
-
Rastus... on the JP trigger... it just needed to be adjusted, nothing defective other than the shooter... I like the hook/release disconnector on the Garand style triggers, as I perceive them to be more consistent, so it gave me an excuse to install one... on the ACOGS... I had an opportunity to proof read the SOPMOD manual, and am impressed by what they can do..
-
So exactly what difference does the single or two stage trigger make in your shooting?Single is quicker I guess...but what's the difference in the feel? Is 2 stage better for accuracy shooting like hunting or sniping?
-
my take on single and double stage triggers... on the OEM single stage trigger, after the shot is fired, the bolt carrier moves rearward, cocking the hammer, then completes its cycle to chamber a round.....the trigger is to the rear and the hammer is caught by the disconnector... when the trigger is released, the disconnector releases the hammer ....the hammer starts to fall through a pretty good arc, and is caught by the "sear" on the nose of the trigger... the engaging surfaces between the nose of the trigger and the sear notch on the hammer are not parallel... geometry is built in to help "catch" the hammer.... you can see this when you pull the trigger with the rifle open, and notice that the hammer is actually cocked slightly rearward... match triggers attempt to make the release surfaces more parallel, and have less engagement...you get a very light trigger pull, then at some point it doubles...
on the Garand disconnector, visualize a backwards "C" with the top edge spring loaded... the hammer's disconnector and sear engagement looks like a "T" out the rear of the hammer, which alternately engages both the top and bottom lips of the "C"... when the rifle fires, the trigger is towards the rear, and the hammer is cocked and caught by the top edge of the "C"... when the trigger is released, it rocks clockwise (viewed from the left) and engages the bottom arm of the T which is the sear, without falling through very much arc, just enough to release it from the disconnector... a slight amount of clearance is provided... when the trigger is pulled again, the C rotates counter clockwise to release the hammer, but is impeded by the top of the C, but since this is spring loaded, a slight addition to the trigger pull overcomes the spring tension, and releases the hammer....
the NM double stage triggers allow me to "just" release the trigger enough to reset.... and like shooting an autoloader pistol, I try to not release the trigger any more than needed... for 3 gun, I like about a 3 # trigger on my rifles
-
Les have you run the Wilson single stage triggers? I have Geissele (sp?) in my DMR build but plan on the Wilson for a new M4 type build because I love the solid reset on it.
Just about the time I was going for the Wilson the crunch came and the price jumped up $50 overnight on the Wilson single stage triggers. So...here I sit waiting to get the IRS payment made and the payment for car insurance....
As a side note...what about the Hypertouch triggers I see at Palmetto State? They are more economical than Wilson or Geissele....so I'm wondering what the Hypertouch is in line with for performance...Timney or Rifle Basix?
-
Rastus... no, other than the JP adjustable.... my primary and backup lowers are pretty old, and were built before the numerous models of triggers were available... I've used the RRA NM triggers on all my rifles, even to the point of replacing the ArmaLite match trigger in my 15T with one... a good friend is the SOCOM technology and weapons guy, and he shoots a Geissele, but I'm not sure which model...