The Down Range Forum

Flying Dragon Productions ( Michael Bane ) => Michael Bane on the Radio => Topic started by: Marshal Halloway on March 18, 2009, 12:37:00 AM

Title: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: Marshal Halloway on March 18, 2009, 12:37:00 AM

(http://www.downrange.tv/radio/images/episode102b.jpg)

Episode #102 - March 18, 2009
This week, more on the Obama administration's move to restrict civilian ammo by canceling military brass recycling sales. Also, an orgy of cowboy leather, featuring the work of Nick Asadi at Tombstone Leather Products.
(LISTEN HERE (http://www.downrange.tv/radio/102.htm))

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: Hazcat on March 18, 2009, 12:37:53 AM

It's about time!!!





;D

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: Marshal Halloway on March 18, 2009, 12:50:45 AM

Here is a slideshow of Michael's rig made by Tombstone Leather.

http://www.downrange.tv/images/slideshow_tombstoneleather.swf

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: Marshal Halloway on March 18, 2009, 12:53:04 AM

Quote from: Hazcat on March 18, 2009, 12:37:53 AM

It's about time!!!
;D

 ;D

You should be in bed!!

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: elnor on March 19, 2009, 01:05:57 AM

Thanks for the Quick Strips coverage this week, Michael.  You convinced me:  Tuff has my order for strips in their queue.  ;D

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: dmv-sd on March 20, 2009, 08:23:33 AM

Thanks, Michael, for turning me on to Jimmy Thackery. Best version of Apache I've heard. Thanks for all the rest that you do, too.

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: conagher on March 25, 2009, 07:19:53 AM

I sent the following to the Houston Chronicle last week:

"I’m weary of hearing about smuggling on the Mexican border, drugs coming North and assault weapons going South and that it's all our fault.  I’ll concede the drugs but I have a question:  Should I desire to begin smuggling semiautomatic rifles (assault rifles) into Mexico, where, pray tell, would I find one?  They have been basically unavailable since November 2008.  And none of the numerous manufacturers of these guns have any in stock.  Please analyze this for me."

They have printed my stuff before, but so far, not this one.

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: Hazcat on March 25, 2009, 07:58:11 AM

Conagher,

The problem I see with your post is calling semi auto rifles 'assault rifles'.  I'm sure you know this is absolutely incorrect.  Assault rifles have an actual definition of a 'select fire' rifle (semi and full or burst mode).  Now assault 'weapons' don't even exist.  Just a Brady fantasy.

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: metamurph on April 16, 2009, 09:13:50 PM

First, that is some great leatherwork. 
Second I liked the show and the emphasis around scenario thinking, options, awareness but...in some ways this seems to make a point of the tv show you were talking about and plays a bit to--if I am nancy pelosi--I say see we need registration and just like a car if you want to be a registered owner you need training.  You basically are making a case here that if you haven't been to Gunsite (or something similar and don't get me wrong it is high on my list of things to do) then you are not really going to be useful with that peashooter on your side....and gee, I better go every year or be in IDPA.  That says that most of us should be "aware sheep" rather than sheepdogs. 
I think the majority of the population that wants gun control measures do so generally because they would prefer to just be unaware sheep.  They don't want to walk into the convenience store and "know" (because we have outlawed them all) that no one has a gun.  The world is fallen and imperfect but their view is we can regulate it into perfection and it is somehow appealing because we all hate when bad things happen to good people. 
But my real point is the first one and I admit I haven't watched the show but isn't what you are saying fitting into the point they are trying to make...that the majority of gun owners don't have a sufficient level of training to use their weapon in a viable way?

tom

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: Michael Bane on April 16, 2009, 10:43:26 PM

You've ventured onto a piece of ground that we need to tiptoe around...the overwhelming problem here is that the need for training often gets shunted aside in the face of more immediate needs. If you are going to carry a gun for personal defense, or if you keep a gun in your home for defense, you have a need for training. That is the reality of the situation. Furthermore, the skills are perishable. We emphasize that over and over on the shows.

Your level of training dictates whether you will be an "aware sheep" or, indeed, a "sheep dog," to bastardize the Grossman terminology. An aware sheep is QUANTUMS better than the pathetic hordes who think they'll be protected by the police, by the government, by...I don't know...aliens. On THE BEST DEFENSE we've shown scenarios where the situation went south because the good guy drew a gun and escalated the situation. We've also shown scenarios where the good guy hesitated and because of that hesitation lost his life.

I've "died" a lot of times in "simple" convenience store robbery sims...all violent encounters are pure chaos systems, beyond prediction. Whether you live or die depends not just on your training but your mental flexibility, the ability to move from plan to plan to plan in fractions of a second. I believe that is a function of training. When I was training as a cave diver, my instructor hammered into my head over and over that the techniques I was learning, while basically simple, would have to be performed in just about the most terrifying claustrophobic environment a monkey which evolved from trees and plains could imagine — a coffin-sized pitch-black underwater cave, with the added incentive of running out of air. 100% right; 100% of the time. If you hesitated; if you panicked; if you hit it "pretty close" instead of 100%, you got to die. No deposit; no return.

When you look at an active shooter scenario, it's basically worst case...a crazy killer on a suicide run, lots of bystanders, panic, a staggering overload of often conflicting information confronting the good person. And at the bottom of everything is the simple question: "Can you 100% deliver the shot?" I don't know of any way to answer that question except through training and experience.

Every time I've advised a person or persons who wanted to get a firearm for protection, I've pushed hard on three points 1) how much are you willing to shoot. 2) how much are you willing to train and 3) what are your personal limits when it comes to defending yourself. I'm not saying that a person can't do an outstanding job of defending their home with a shotgun and minimal training; but that doesn't prepare that person for a worst case situation any more than a high school drivers ed class prepares your for a few 200 mph laps at Daytona.

And, heck, I haven't even touched on "stress innoculation!" I remember a SWAT training exercise we cooked up in mid-1980s. Officers had to run a pretty aggressive obstacle course before running onto the range. The first shot was 35 yards and the officer had to take cover behind a 3-foot wall. One of my jobs was as soon as the tired, winded officer drew a bead on the target — usually using the wall as support — was to tip the wall over onto the officer. Once they picked out the splinters, they never again "hugged" cover or used it as a rest.

I realize this is equivocal, but I hope it helps!

Michael B

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: tombogan03884 on April 16, 2009, 10:49:57 PM

MB, You have often mentioned your cave diving, , have you ever done any under Ice diving or 'Mixed gas" DEEP dives ? those are a couple more perfect or dead hobbies.

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: Michael Bane on April 16, 2009, 11:10:00 PM

I prepped for a couple of ice dives on the edge of the Arctic Circle, but the trip fell through at the last minute. I've done some deep stuff on trimix, including the USS Wilkes-Barre off Key West. I liked talking in that weird high voice from the helium. After coming back from a trip where we'd done long hangs breathing a weird assortment of nitrox on the decompression stops, my doctor told me that as one of the short list of people who'd been up to 20,000 feet and down to 300 feet, I was part of a "fascinating experiment" to see whether my body was going to self-destruct at some point. Am still ticking...

mb

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: philw on April 17, 2009, 01:30:57 AM

Quote from: Michael Bane on April 16, 2009, 11:10:00 PM

I prepped for a couple of ice dives on the edge of the Arctic Circle, but the trip fell through at the last minute. I've done some deep stuff on trimix, including the USS Wilkes-Barre off Key West. I liked talking in that weird high voice from the helium. After coming back from a trip where we'd done long hangs breathing a weird assortment of nitrox on the decompression stops, my doctor told me that as one of the short list of people who'd been up to 20,000 feet and down to 300 feet, I was part of a "fascinating experiment" to see whether my body was going to self-destruct at some point. Am still ticking...

mb

Mate if you still want to experiment with your body

you should come over to Australia  and check out some caves we have over here   ;)


in the Nullabor ( Between Adelaide and Perth )  there is Murra El Elevyn  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9rE5orzoc

then here in South Australia we have an amasing cave systems

check out Piccaninnie Ponds  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AJulJ2kRFE   and the Shaft http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwFP98BFiIA&feature=related

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: metamurph on April 17, 2009, 02:35:11 AM

Quote from: Michael Bane on April 16, 2009, 10:43:26 PM

You've ventured onto a piece of ground that we need to tiptoe around...the overwhelming problem here is that the need for training often gets shunted aside in the face of more immediate needs.

Every time I've advised a person or persons who wanted to get a firearm for protection, I've pushed hard on three points 1) how much are you willing to shoot. 2) how much are you willing to train and 3) what are your personal limits when it comes to defending yourself.

And, heck, I haven't even touched on "stress innoculation!"

I realize this is equivocal, but I hope it helps!

Michael B

I know it is delicate turf. "media relations" is a challenging job.  Kind of like my peeve with all the idiots on youtube posting videos of their wives shooting the .44 magnum or gun manufacturers that have the eye candy shots with fingers in the trigger guard.
 
I think there are lots of delicate issues as we look at this and I do appreciate your emphasis on training as well as that of the Pro Arms crew and the Shoot/No Shoot scenarios of Kenn Blanchard.  When I see/hear the I have $X to spend my question is, depending on how they are planning to use the firearm, does that include the budget to put enough rounds through to become operationally capable?  Does it include training? 

At least all those times you have died it is in simulation and it will help you better avoid it in the real thing.

Stress training, the guys from the Gun Fighter Podcast talk all the time about ways to get the cocktail running through you and in their videos and podcast on training exercises they don't go to the extreme you did but they do run from their car to the firing line.

Thanks for all the great shows and keeping our minds active

tom

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: Pathfinder on April 17, 2009, 05:50:52 AM

Quote from: metamurph on April 17, 2009, 02:35:11 AM

I know it is delicate turf. "media relations" is a challenging job.  Kind of like my peeve with all the idiots on youtube posting videos of their wives shooting the .44 magnum or gun manufacturers that have the eye candy shots with fingers in the trigger guard.
 
I think there are lots of delicate issues as we look at this and I do appreciate your emphasis on training as well as that of the Pro Arms crew and the Shoot/No Shoot scenarios of Kenn Blanchard.  When I see/hear the I have $X to spend my question is, depending on how they are planning to use the firearm, does that include the budget to put enough rounds through to become operationally capable?  Does it include training? 

At least all those times you have died it is in simulation and it will help you better avoid it in the real thing.

Stress training, the guys from the Gun Fighter Podcast talk all the time about ways to get the cocktail running through you and in their videos and podcast on training exercises they don't go to the extreme you did but they do run from their car to the firing line.

Thanks for all the great shows and keeping our minds active

tom

Wednesday night, as a part of our local Citizen Academy, I had a chance to shoot at the regional indoor police range with the County Sheriff. There was a complete lack of safety teaching. Start with OK ear muffs, NO eye protection. The Training Officer handed out the revolvers (S&W Mod 60 & 661) muzzle down and cylinders open, and immediately people were handling them, swinging the muzzles across the rest of us. No discussion of muzzle control - although it was on the wall poster behind us. There were instructions to keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. I will note the lack of safety instruction on the evaluation form.

The TO also made the comment earlier in the classroom that he had not brought a gun into the classroom, but they didn't belong there. What? No bright red training models he could use? That too will be noted.

On the other hand, there were 3-4 people who had never shot before, and who had a ball. One college student, originally from Poland, was grinning when I asked her if she was having fun. Her response - This is really fun! So that was a good thing.

Title: Re: Down Range Radio #102
Post by: tombogan03884 on April 17, 2009, 09:06:24 AM

Quote from: Michael Bane on April 16, 2009, 11:10:00 PM

I prepped for a couple of ice dives on the edge of the Arctic Circle, but the trip fell through at the last minute. I've done some deep stuff on trimix, including the USS Wilkes-Barre off Key West. I liked talking in that weird high voice from the helium. After coming back from a trip where we'd done long hangs breathing a weird assortment of nitrox on the decompression stops, my doctor told me that as one of the short list of people who'd been up to 20,000 feet and down to 300 feet, I was part of a "fascinating experiment" to see whether my body was going to self-destruct at some point. Am still ticking...

mb

I understand that if you dive and fly on the same day you should fly first as it can affect your nitrogen levels (bends)