The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on June 25, 2008, 11:30:29 AM
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I would like to offer an apology to the Loyal Americans who are my fellow Forum members, Especially the newer members who may not be familiar with some of the characters on this forum.
I have (and will probably continue to ) made several harsh, sarcastic and rather insulting comments in answer to posts by another member, TAB.
For the benefit of our newer members I would like to say that this is not my usual style of reply, nor is it the usual attitude displayed on this forum.
In mitigation I would like to point out three things,
1) The majority of my 6 years military service was focused on overthrowing governments, and killing individuals who espoused the political views apparently held by TAB, (Communism)It seems that instead of fighting communism overseas during the cold war we would have been better served by suppressing the democratic party and fighting communism here at home.
2) I come to this Forum for FACTUAL information, and fellowship with like minded PATRIOTIC, law abiding gun owners when I'm sick of being fed socialist propaganda, and general BS by the mainstream media, I do not appreciate having my refuge infiltrated, as my country has been, by this Euro centric socialist crap. If Europe is so great, why are there so many of them here ?
3) Any one who comes to a SHOOTERS website, so heavily oriented toward our 2nd Amendment rights in general and concealed carry in particular, and begins spouting the VPC/ HCI party line, deserves and should expect severe handling.
The fact that I have said outright that I do not respect TAB or his opinions is in no way meant as a slight toward the persons or opinions of ANY other member of this forum, they being people who I hold in the highest regard, and consider myself fortunate to call friends.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Micheal Bane, Marshal Halloway, and the irrepressible, irreplaceable, Marshal'ette for making the time in their busy schedules to make such a forum available to us. Thank you.
Thomas C. Bogan
Laconia NH
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Ok what did I miss? No apology needed Tom. ;)
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Tom
NEVER apologize for defending this GREAT Country and it's Citizens Inalienable rights from ALL enemies;foreign or domestic.
James A. Urban
29 Palms CA/Carlsbad NM
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Well Tom first off let me start off by saying that anyone that has read your posts and has thought, or thinks, that you are rude, dumb, harsh, or think that you should not post what you do, let me say to them that you are a very patriotic, hard working, American, that has earned his right to post his views in a context that, at times, may seem offensive.
Many times you have chimed in on my threads and added not only great gun advice, but also somewhere in there made me smile. There is no need, EVER, for a veteran to apologize for standing up for what he\she believes in. You earned that right to have your say about America and how Americans should live. You fought and defended those that oppose you, and you have the right to try and lead those who have strayed from their Republic, not knowing the true sacrifices that have brought us all what we have.
Our ways and values as Americans have been insulted and diseased for some time now. The only way for America to survive, and for us people who bleed, red, white, and blue, to be able to pass down these values so intrusted to us by our Great Grandfathers, is to stand up to people who want us to become like the land in which we fought so hard to defeat in the blessed year of 1776.
You took an oath one time to "fight all enemies foreign and Domestic," and that service does not end with your discharged, it ends upon your death.
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HEAR HEAR ksail!!
That post should be immortalized!
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No apology needed for this vet. Say what will, we should all be big boys (or girls) here.
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Actually I find Tom-O's exchanges with TAB pretty entertaining. The good news is that this is America and in most places you can say what you want, including Tab's opinions. AND the good news is that Tom-O can say what HE wants about what TAB says, and so on.
What a great country!
The fact that you sound like a couple of crochety old men just makes it more fun! ;D
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Ksail,
Thank you for your post here, especially the last line.
I to0 took that oath and, in the years since, often reflected that I was not relieved of that oath or obligation, nor did I wish to be.
I am heartened to know others have the same thoughts.
Thank you again.
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Another mass shooting at a factory yesterday. No posted sign, company policy or the owner's rights stopped the event from unfolding. The only earthly savior would have been the armed man with the means to neutralize the murderer, but he wasn't permitted to be there.
There is nothing wrong with striving for a society where such events do not occur. Criminal violence should never be accepted as "normal", or the cost of freedom. We all would agree that Peace is a noble condition in which to live. But reducing innocents to the level of incidental, collateral damage by denying the means to exercise their right to self defense, in a vain hope that evil will pass by, become "enlightened", and fade away into human history, is unreasonable and intollerable. Especially if it is me, unarmed, in the crosshairs.
Until Utopia becomes an attainable, sustainable social condition, I'll continue to be wary and say so when needed. When the definition of gun becomes obsolete and the designs can no longer be found, I'll join TAB in his paradise on earth. 'Till then, anybody notice the great deal on Gloden Tiger AK rounds on AMMOMAN?
Mac.
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Another mass shooting at a factory yesterday. No posted sign, company policy or the owner's rights stopped the event from unfolding. The only earthly savior would have been the armed man with the means to neutralize the murderer, but he wasn't permitted to be there.
There is nothing wrong with striving for a society where such events do not occur. Criminal violence should never be accepted as "normal", or the cost of freedom. We all would agree that Peace is a noble condition in which to live. But reducing innocents to the level of incidental, collateral damage by denying the means to exercise their right to self defense, in a vain hope that evil will pass by, become "enlightened", and fade away into human history, is unreasonable and intollerable. Especially if it is me, unarmed, in the crosshairs.
Until Utopia becomes an attainable, sustainable social condition, I'll continue to be wary and say so when needed. When the definition of gun becomes obsolete and the designs can no longer be found, I'll join TAB in his paradise on earth. 'Till then, anybody notice the great deal on Gloden Tiger AK rounds on AMMOMAN?
Mac.
+1
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Tom,
Don't feel that you need to apologize to me!
Everything I have read posted by you has been consistant and leads me to beleive this is who you are and what you beleive. I see no reason for you to apologize for openly being who you are, especially when you are responding to or defending against an attack on your moral fiber.
Thanks for being who you are and risking your safety for mine!
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Until Utopia becomes an attainable, sustainable social condition...
Utopia cannot happen in our imperfect world. Man's own desires and failings will always prevent it. It is an impossible (fallacious, misguided) dream.
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Utopia cannot happen in our imperfect world. Man's own desires and failings will always prevent it. It is an impossible (fallacious, misguided) dream.
Which is why Ole TAB catches so much flack, but keep swingin' fella. Someone must pursue The Impossible Dream. Just don't expect me to sacrifice my security to prove it can be attained.
Mac.
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Mr. Tom,
Please don't feel for one minute that you owe me or any patriotic American an apology. Thank you for standing up for everything this country was founded for. If more of us would do that, we would not be in the mess we're in today.
Like was said earlier, some of us find humor in the way you tear into him. Opiions are like a$$holes, everyone..., or is it some a$$holes have opinions... oh never mind.
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Hey, no apology needed! TAB is just incendiary and you are the extinguisher! I too am annoyed by his posts as I come here for great firearms info and good 2nd Amendment support as well.
Also, thanks so much for your service to our country. I, and many out here appreciate the vets and what you all sacrificed for our country. THANKS AGAIN!
Wheelgun
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So ... is there any chance of you two kissing and making up? :-* Add a little diversity to the forum? Haz can make a pitcher or two of margaritas to get ya'all in the mood.
If you do, keep in mind that this would be one post that we don't want to see any pictures of!
;)
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So ... is there any chance of you two kissing and making up? :-* Add a little diversity to the forum? Haz can make a pitcher or two of margaritas to get ya'all in the mood.
If you do, keep in mind that this would be one post that we don't want to see any pictures of!
;)
HEY! I am NOT a bartender! >:( Make yer own. ;D
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Tom -
No need to apologize to this non-Vet (draft number 261) either. But a typically classy move on your part to start this thread.
Many of you already know my opinion of Tab, and after the incredible blather he spewed in the post re' his "phrase" that pissed him off (one of many I would guess), the fact is that I will never engage him in a dialogue again so long as he espouses such nonsense. So no problem Tom.
Many of us feel the same way about this site, and it is confirmed when the newbies come onboard and reflect - rather surprised I think - that everyone is just so gosh-darned nice!
So let's continue working to keep it that way. This was a good step.
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So ... is there any chance of you two kissing and making up? :-* Add a little diversity to the forum? Haz can make a pitcher or two of margaritas to get ya'all in the mood.
If you do, keep in mind that this would be one post that we don't want to see any pictures of!
;)
Yeah, why not...I hear it's legal now.
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Tom -
No need to apologize to this non-Vet (draft number 261) either.
253
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Yeah, why not...I hear it's legal now.
ONLY until we put a stop to that nonsense in Nov.
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In all seriousness, it's folks like Tom that make this forum as good as it is. Many of us have visited other forums where the members give it their best to act like bitchy school girls. Not so here. Reason being is that it’s because of folks like Tom that know when to say “enough” when someone gets their panties in a knot. I have been here a few months and I can’t recall where the moderators have had to lock down a topic or boot someone of the forum. Again, that’s due to the people posting here and the courtesy and common sense that they show in their postings.
It’s OK to argue and to be passionate about what you believe. It’s another to be a condescending prick (which I will admit I can be pretty damn good at).
Tom, your point was made and I don’t think you need to apologize.
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TAB? TAB?? TAB???
Cue the crickets...... No, not the P-3ATs.
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Hey Tom, Your a Veteran, a Patriot, and a DRTV Ranger! You have an all access backstage pass to call BS when you see it, call attention to idiocy when you read it, and pretty much post a "reality slap" to those who don't get it.
You are a respected member of an elite group, and one on this forum also. You call it like you see it, and are an absolute straight shooter. No apology necessary.
God Bless.
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Tom;
No need to apologize. Just by starting this thread shows you are a man of great integrity. You're one of the reasons this is the greatest forum on the planet.
Thanks,
-KP
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TAB? TAB?? TAB???
Cue the crickets...... No, not the P-3ATs.
don't look at me, I had nothing to do with this.
I just ignored him. He can say what ever he wants about me, I don't care what he thinks of me or my stance on issues.
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I've always felt the reason we fought in various and sundry hell holes on this planet was so that anyone who is a citizen of our country can say anything, anytime, anywhere. No matter how wrong a person is, how silly or misguided, or even how hateful, I will respect their right to say what they want on the condition they will respect another's right to rebut their arguments.
So I look forward to many more frank exchanges of ideas as we continue to prove to the rest of the world that gun owners can have passionate, vitriolic debates without the expect (by the Brady Klan) bloodshed at the terminus.
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I would like to thank my freinds here for their kind words, both to all Veterans in general and myself in particular.
I was fairly certain that you held the opinions you have expressed here. I had two objectives in mind when I first started this thread, the first was to explain why I was posting such intentionaly offensive answers to TAB's posts. The second reason was to reassure new members, who are not familiar with us that they really do not need to expect such treatment themselves, to reassure them that we are happy to share knowledge and opinions, and we will answer any question. From what to do about a squib stuck in the barrel to how to make a KILLER Margarita, if we collectively don't have an answer one or more of us will be googling madly to find one.
Again thanks to all for your kind words and to the 3 M's for maintaining this "Home away from home" for us.
PS KSail, Marines don't get out of duty by dieing, We get a guard post in heaven, check the Marine Hymn.
Thats how I know Islamic "martyrs" are being cheated, there are NO virgins left ;D
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don't look at me, I had nothing to do with this.
I just ignored him. He can say what ever he wants about me, I don't care what he thinks of me or my stance on issues.
And thats what makes this site GREAT!!!!!!
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I would like to thank my freinds here for their kind words, both to all Veterans in general and myself in particular.
I was fairly certain that you held the opinions you have expressed here. I had two objectives in mind when I first started this thread, the first was to explain why I was posting such intentionaly offensive answers to TAB's posts. The second reason was to reassure new members, who are not familiar with us that they really do not need to expect such treatment themselves, to reassure them that we are happy to share knowledge and opinions, and we will answer any question. From what to do about a squib stuck in the barrel to how to make a KILLER Margarita, if we collectively don't have an answer one or more of us will be googling madly to find one.
Again thanks to all for your kind words and to the 3 M's for maintaining this "Home away from home" for us.
PS KSail, Marines don't get out of duty by dieing, We get a guard post in heaven, check the Marine Hymn.
Thats how I know Islamic "martyrs" are being cheated, there are NO virgins left ;D
Tom, I would first like to say THANK YOU !!!!
Keep being you.. Thanks to you and our vets we have a site like this.
Again THANK YOU!!!!
shooter32
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Did someone slip wood alkie in that Hazarita you were drinking? :o
You were not intentionally "offensive"....you were obviously intensely objective. I really don't care if your factual representation of an opposing view offends an "ostrich" with tail feathers in full view ....caring like that would be for the b-e-t-a males. What's great about you, this board and it's owners is that we rightfully perceive that the effort to "just get along" is a failure.
To drive forward, to take ground and to possess the land wins the fight....the pacifist place in history is one of certain subjection. One can be secure, certain and, at times, violent about one's belief in the benefits of harmony and concensus without recognizing the strategic failure in not standing ground. It is historically conclusive that the failure to confront challenge leads to defeat.
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women." Very appropriate phrase to set the atmosphere for this post "DC vs. Heller" period in the American politic.
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The same guy told the surviving muslims in Bukhara " I am a punishment from Allah, You must be very bad people for Allah to set such a punishment on you." ;D
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;D Here here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tom NEVER say your sorry for what you think, that is you right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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From one Tom to another, SEMPER FI!!!
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From one Tom to another, SEMPER FI!!!
(http://www.mazeguy.net/military/eagleglobeanchor.gif) Do or Die ! (http://www.mazeguy.net/military/eagleglobeanchor.gif)
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(http://www.mazeguy.net/military/eagleglobeanchor.gif) Do or Die ! (http://www.mazeguy.net/military/eagleglobeanchor.gif)
OOO RAH!!!
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YEEHAA from the DIXYCUP'S .
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;D Here here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tom NEVER say your sorry for what you think, that is you right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
there is a diffrence between saying what you think and name calling.
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there is a diffrence between saying what you think and name calling.
...........aaaaaaaannnnddd THAT should about wrap it up. Tab, please just call him a name so I can stop checking in....either that or Tomo is going to have to stop apologizing, and I don't know WHAT will happen then...
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Frankly Mr. Bogan I'm pissed about the apology >:(. I enjoy a course environment. I am considering a possible impeachment.
OK. In all seriousness I have enjoyed the back and forth. I also must give TAB kudos as well. In today's society, everyone runs around offended and use it as a tool to stifle honest disagreements. Thank you both.
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there is a diffrence between saying what you think and name calling.
But name calling is more educational, as you might actually have a use for some of those, as opposed to comments ,whether fact or opinion, that you don't agree with.
...........aaaaaaaannnnddd THAT should about wrap it up. Tab, please just call him a name so I can stop checking in....either that or Tomo is going to have to stop apologizing, and I don't know WHAT will happen then...
I only did it to keep from scaring the new members. ;D
Frankly Mr. Bogan I'm pissed about the apology >:(. I enjoy a course environment. I am considering a possible impeachment.
OK. In all seriousness I have enjoyed the back and forth. I also must give TAB kudos as well. In today's society, everyone runs around offended and use it as a tool to stifle honest disagreements. Thank you both.
My debating society has chapters in most of the Gravel pits, logging camps, and barracks in America. ;D
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But name calling is more educational, as you might actually have a use for some of those, as opposed to comments ,whether fact or opinion, that you don't agree with.
Well, in that case you're all a bunch of fresh tomatoes. Wait...that's another thread....
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Oh great. Thanks a lot Jay... Now they will all be debating over who has the biggest 'debater tamater."
::)
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And heavens gates are gaurded by WHO.WHO.WHO. HOORAA
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freedom for all or freedom for none it always comes back to that.
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Oh great. Thanks a lot Jay... Now they will all be debating over who has the biggest 'debater tamater."
::)
Would that be the master-tamater?
Naw ... sounds too much like ...