The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: CZShooter on May 19, 2008, 09:38:22 PM
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Unfortunately, list is about twice the competition. Looks very interesting, though. :o
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_380_p.html (http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_380_p.html)
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I still want one BAD! But they are sure proud of them for $600.00+. :-\
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I handled one at the NRA Convention. It "feels" better in the hand than either the Kel-tec or the Ruger. I own a Kel-tec and like it alot.
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Price is steep, but you know the old adage!
It looks like the micro polymer pistol wars have begun, and once again Glock is no where to be found (http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=2105.0). Cue the crickets!
I also found this interesting and insightful:
Kel-Tec P3AT vs Kahr P380
(http://www.kahr.com/imgs/mdtl_p3833vsp3at.jpg)
Kahr PM9 vs P380
(http://www.kahr.com/imgs/mdtl_p3833vspm9.jpg)
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How about the PM9 compared to the PF9?
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I still want one BAD! But they are sure proud of them for $600.00+. :-\
There are things I want that I can’t afford.(Insert list here) so I understand getting the best you can afford. But…………… I think if you can afford a Kahr it is the way to go. I have a brace of Kahr’s that I carry daily (P45 in a safe packer and a PM 9 in a pocket holster). I would go with the Kahr if you must carry a 9mm short proven design just a smaller caliber.
Jon
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It looks like the micro polymer pistol wars have begun, and once again Glock is no where to be found
(http://www.kahr.com/imgs/mdtl_p3833vsp3at.jpg)
in a war between karr kel-tec and ruger who wins? i guess only time will tell, but i'm forcasting that the ruger will sell better once they work out the bugs, the kel-tec will probably have less problems, and the karr will be what everyone wants but few actualy get due to price
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in a war between karr kel-tec and ruger who wins? i guess only time will tell, but i'm forcasting that the ruger will sell better once they work out the bugs, the kel-tec will probably have less problems, and the karr will be what everyone wants but few actualy get due to price
Answer: Kahr
Q: Who should have the slam dunk victory on name and reputation alone?
A: Glock
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in a war between karr kel-tec and ruger who wins? i guess only time will tell, but i'm forcasting that the ruger will sell better once they work out the bugs, the kel-tec will probably have less problems, and the karr will be what everyone wants but few actualy get due to price
I think we will be the winners in this war. Nothing like healthy competition to get manufacturers to create higher quality products more efficiently (i.e. cost less). :D
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I think we will be the winners in this war. Nothing like healthy competition to get manufacturers to create higher quality products more efficiently (i.e. cost less). :D
Yes, but as far as I am concerned, .380 is a worthless caliber. Yes, its better then a knife but it still leaves you out gunned against most all other calibers that you might encounter and it severely limits your options in the fight. I would rather them be duking it out with a more viable self defense caliber as the center piece (i.e. 9mm and larger).
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I want one!
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Being in NJ I can't carry, but if I could, I would want the piece to be big enough that I REMEMBER I've got it with me. These teensy guns could be forgotten in a coat pocket or whatever, and I just think that if you've got something with you that's a little uncomfortable I would think you will stay more aware and ultimately more safe. But then, not being able to carry, it's all theory.
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Comparing the Kahr .380 to their 9mm is interesting and makes me want to skip over the .380 for the 9mm - JMHO. I'm sure they will sell a lot of them but it seems a bit pricy even for Kahr quality.
Richard
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i really havent heard much about karr, nor have i ever fired one, so ruger karr or kel-tech doesnt matter to me... price and reliability are my 2 concnerns and kel and ruger seem to be relaibale as far as i can tell
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Yes, but as far as I am concerned, .380 is a worthless caliber. Yes, its better then a knife but it still leaves you out gunned against most all other calibers that you might encounter and it severely limits your options in the fight. I would rather them be duking it out with a more viable self defense caliber as the center piece (i.e. 9mm and larger).
James Bond loved his .380,... ;D
And so do I. Shot placement with practice counts for alot. That's why I practice, practice,etc,...
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The name's Cat, Hazcat. ;D
Any one remember T.H.E. Cat?
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Being in NJ I can't carry, but if I could, I would want the piece to be big enough that I REMEMBER I've got it with me. These teensy guns could be forgotten in a coat pocket or whatever, and I just think that if you've got something with you that's a little uncomfortable I would think you will stay more aware and ultimately more safe. But then, not being able to carry, it's all theory.
In theory, yes, but in practice it's like carrying an extra wallet. Don't forget it's in a holster. You don't forget about it and for me down here in sunny Florida, it's ideal. Heck, it's ideal anywhere in an urban environment.
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The name's Cat, Hazcat. ;D
Any one remember T.H.E. Cat?
I do. Robert Loggia, for the win!
Eric - the only time you're outgunned against an opponent is IF YOU MISS.
Badmouthing mousegun calibers is all well and good, but the people interested in defending themselves will just be training that much harder to NOT MISS.
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In theory, yes, but in practice it's like carrying an extra wallet. Don't forget it's in a holster. You don't forget about it and for me down here in sunny Florida, it's ideal. Heck, it's ideal anywhere in an urban environment.
Like I said, all theory on my part. Maybe my problem wouldn't stem from the small caliber gun, but from the lousy memory.
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I feel your pain Jay. >:(
MD isn't much better in the carry regard. I can get a non-resident permit from VA and FL which is valid in all the states around me (except yours, NJ, and DC where you actually NEED it) but not the one I live in. I have the paperwork in but I'm not going to hold my breath. I was done with the paperwork in CA and it was approved but I moved here before I was approved. A glimmer of hope is that I was Navy law enforcement and currently an anti-terrorism/firearms instructor but its slim. I keep looking at smallish pistols just in case ;) (Kahr P9/45, Para Carry 9/45, G26/36, KelTec P11/PF9 or M&P9C: 40 is a little TOO snappy in something that small)
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The P3AT is a snappy little gun but shoots better than it looks. I can manage about 30rnds before my hand
Starts to look like I was smacking it with a ball-peen hammer. For no fuss CCW I feel everyone should have one.
Along with a Ruger P89 and a Smith & Wesson K-frame ;D Just to round things out don't ya know!
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I feel your pain Jay. >:(
MD isn't much better in the carry regard. I can get a non-resident permit from VA and FL which is valid in all the states around me (except yours, NJ, and DC where you actually NEED it) but not the one I live in. I have the paperwork in but I'm not going to hold my breath. I was done with the paperwork in CA and it was approved but I moved here before I was approved. A glimmer of hope is that I was Navy law enforcement and currently an anti-terrorism/firearms instructor but its slim. I keep looking at smallish pistols just in case ;) (Kahr P9/45, Para Carry 9/45, G26/36, KelTec P11/PF9 or M&P9C: 40 is a little TOO snappy in something that small)
It's rumored to be impossible to carry in NJ. Police Chief has to sign off, and I think that wouldn't be a problem, but then you have to demonstrate : "1. In the case of a private citizen shall specify in detail the urgent necessity for self-protection, as evidenced by specific
threats or previous attacks which demonstrate a special danger to the applicant's life that cannot be avoided by means
other than by issuance of a permit to carry a handgun. Where possible the applicant shall corroborate the existence of
any specific threats or previous attacks by reference to reports of such incidents to the appropriate law enforcement
agencies;"
The application then goes before a judge. I have been told that a judge was heard to comment, "Then hire a bodyguard".
So you've got to be under attack by zombies or trolls, and then they tell you to hire muscle who somehow magically CAN carry while you can't.
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I do. Robert Loggia, for the win!
Eric - the only time you're outgunned against an opponent is IF YOU MISS.
Badmouthing mousegun calibers is all well and good, but the people interested in defending themselves will just be training that much harder to NOT MISS.
And T.H.E. stood for.....??
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And T.H.E. stood for.....??
Thomas Hewlett Edward.
Professional thief, tightrope walker, and general American version of Simon Templar, giving up cat burglary to aid those who no one else could help.
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Thomas Hewlett Edward.
Professional thief, tightrope walker, and general American version of Simon Templar, giving up cat burglary to aid those who no one else could help.
WOW! You and I are old farts! ;D
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Pack a Kahr P9. Takes a lot rounds to reach reliability but its sure lighter than a Glock.
The all stainless Kahrs (mine anyways) have butter smooth trigger action.
Seem to remember that Kahr machines the NAA .380 or was it the another?
Bottom line - Made in USA. :)
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JB carried the PPK in .32 auto, never in .380. I guess Q really did believe in shot placement.
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WOW! You and I are old farts! ;D
Helps that I had a friend spur my interest. He's the old fart. I'm still clinging to life under 40. :p
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I am anxiously awaiting the release of the Kahr P380. my EDC is a P9, and I love it. I tried a PM9 in my pocket but it is still too large, for my pockets anyway. a good friend carries the Kel Tec and likes it fine, but I would gladly spend the extra few bucks for the Kahr. I prefer a 9mm or larger but I am not a very big guy and a pocket gun would simply be with me more of the time.
My P9 has never missed a beat since new (1000 rds ago) and for some reason, it is a much easier gun to shoot than it's size and weight indicate. I carry it full of Corbon 115gr +P and shooting a couple hundred rounds of standard 115gr ball is a piece of cake. my son bought a new H&K USPc today and while breaking it in a bit at the range, we both thought my Kahr was more pleasant to shoot. figure that one out...we can't.
the last .380 I owned was a PPK/S but I never enjoyed shooting it and sold it. I am not sure what the deal is, but if the little P380 shoots as nice compared to the Kel Tec or the PPK/S, I will be a happy camper...err, shooter.
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Pack a Kahr P9. Takes a lot rounds to reach reliability but its sure lighter than a Glock.
The all stainless Kahrs (mine anyways) have butter smooth trigger action.
Seem to remember that Kahr machines the NAA .380 or was it the another?
Bottom line - Made in USA. :)
The Kahr I want is a PM45. (I'm Biased to the .45 ACP. Bet Y'all are REAL SHOCKED to hear that one....) I handled a couple of the all stainless Kahrs, and I gotta say, when you run out of ammo, all you need to do is drop it on the attacker's head! ;D They're heavy!
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Eric - the only time you're outgunned against an opponent is IF YOU MISS.
Badmouthing mousegun calibers is all well and good, but the people interested in defending themselves will just be training that much harder to NOT MISS.
.380 is essentially just a knife on steroids.
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.380 is essentially just a knife on steroids.
A .25 is a knife on steroids, But having 6 + 1, "knives", of Rem Golden Sabers in .380, that an "in you face close" SD situation, will change the attitude of the attacker substantially.
Especially, when you practice ALOT, and good shot placement is consistent.
Off to the range, (again) 8)
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Gotta come down with yacht-guy on this...I spent part of yesterday bicycling. I looped a SafePacker with my LCP (now loaded with Cor-Bon DPX over the left side of the handlebars, Doesn't weigh anything; gives me perfect access to the LCP. Finish biking and head for lunch...loop the SafePacker over my belt and head for the restaurant...lighweight summer carry and focus on hits hits hits...
Michael B
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"Knife on steroids."
Uhm... no.
Knives can do far more damage to a human being than even a 12 gauge shotgun.
Like Michael said - concentrate on HITTING with your .380.
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ONE THING YOU SHOLD LOOK INTO...THAT KEL-TEC HAVE A LONG TRIGGER PULL, AS SAME AS A KAHR. AND THE KAHR HAVE A CAM SYSTEM ON THERE TRIGGER PULL...WHICH IS VERY SMOOTH. I HAVE A KEL-TEC P-11 AND KAHR P-45.
BOTH FUNCTION FINE..BUT, THE KAHR HAVE BETTER SHOOTING AT POINT A TO B WITHOUT JAMMING..THE KEL-TEC HAVE SOME JAMING. I LIKE BOTH WEAPONS... BILLYE