The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: alfsauve on May 12, 2011, 08:09:01 PM
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Started over in my Glock thread I thought I'd start a new thread for sight comparison.
Not a professional photographer and I'm just working with lighting in my basement, so this is kinda of crude, but maybe it'll help those who've never seen FO or Trijicon sights.
First to recap: Standard white outline-dot sights in regular room lighting.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/Tcs7dZ2556I/AAAAAAAAkQ4/TyM_yMf12f4/s640/IMG_4955.JPG)
Now let's dim the lights an move all of them forward of the gun. In a tactical situation, I don't want to be back lit anyway. So this would be a more critical, home defense lighting scenario. It's also what you run into on some indoor ranges with poor lighting at the shooting position. The target appears brighter than it actually is because exposure was based on the back of the gun. (Told you I'm not a professional.)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/Tcs7eEDuOfI/AAAAAAAAkRA/S7w8hj10gFE/s640/IMG_4959.JPG)
Next are examples of Fiber Optic and Tritium sights side by side with regular room lighting. Note the Tritium's aren't very "white" and don't show very well in light.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/Tcx_XUf8f4I/AAAAAAAAkR8/7EsIHeoX_Oc/s640/IMG_4965.JPG)
Now let's dim the lights some. Again the target is over exposed because of the long exposure time to show the sights. The Tritium's are starting to strut their stuff, though the FO's haven't lost it totally yet.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/Tcx_ZrrmkHI/AAAAAAAAkSQ/_O1dr2kelDY/s640/IMG_4971.JPG)
Finally, let's really get some low light levels. You can't see the front sight because my focus was on the rear and the camera was looking between the two guns. Not the perfect sight picture. Imagine your bedroom, 2am in the morning, something's moving just outside your door way. Only the nightlight and some street lights coming in the window are what you have for illumination. That's why I like my Trijicon's for my house gun.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/Tcx_aVEQ4GI/AAAAAAAAkSc/GmDBHVhlu2M/s640/IMG_4982.JPG)
As crude these pictures are I hope they give a feeling for the difference between the various sights.
Of course if you have a 2,000GigaJigaWatt LED flashlight mounted on your gun, you can just blind the intruder without firing a shot.
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Thanks for the pictures Alf. For me, there is enough light in the house from outside sources to preclude the use of NS and a light is always at hand. For daytime use I prefer target rear and green FO front. The rear sights that are cut to reduce glare on the blade don't work for my eyes and dots on the RS confuse my eyes also. I had a chance to check out XS Big Dot sights at their booth at the NRA Convention and even though I hate the BD, I believe they would work for me. Each time I presented the gun the sights were fully aligned and ready to pull the trigger.
FWIW
Richard
PS: Wish I could try a set out and see how they worked in actual use!
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Cool Rundown, dude...
I think I see the results a little differently though. I think it is very important to note that the one time the "Night Sights" were best (last picture), you couldn't identify the threat. This is why I don't recommend them as being an important addition to a defensive handgun. You don't need or want to see your sights just because you hear a noise outside your room. You'll need to identify the source of that noise before shooting is an option and you'll need light for that... which as the other pics show, make the night sights not as special.
-RJP
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Ya know what Alf (DON'T FAINT) but I'm gonna agree with Pincus on this! My 454 lever gun came with high viz sights. 1st Time I wuz pig huntin I could just make out the outline of the pig under a tree (early morning) and I could see the sights just fine (I was not under any canopy) BUT when I put the sights on the pig I could not be sure of the shot. So I gotta go with being able to see the 'target' being much more important and MOST likely if ya can see the target ya can see yer sights.
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^^^^^^What they said...."Know your target and what is beyond it!"
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good comparison Alf. I really need to see the front site, I paint the blade on my 1911 white and keep the rear novaks black, my PT140 came with the white outline sites and I did not alter them and they are OK . IMO you should consider what Rob said, 1st identify the target. If you're concerned about night shooting, take a good point shooting class or practice dry firing with a laser until you can make good hits from a retention position. Just my .02
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I did much the same on my 1911, painted the rear dots with a sharpie so they don't distract me from the front sight. Made a big difference. I may still change the front sight to FO. I qualified with a fifties version 1911A1 back in the day and we all know how good those sights were.....I still managed Expert with it though...but I was only 19 or 20 at the time with young eyes...
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First, let it be known, I'm not a big champion for "night" sights. G23 just came with them already installed in a packaged deal. I wouldn't buy them otherwise.
That said, my picture taking doesn't really do them justice. I have trouble balancing the exposure between the foreground and the background. The place they would come in very handy is the very place I would want to be. That is me and my gun are in the dark and the perp is dimly lit or backlit, so that I can see him/her/it. In my bedroom I've checked out this sight picture and it does work.
That said, I don't think these would ever by used by an "operator". A CQC or Swat team isn't going for the subtlety a homeowner faces.
I just happened to have all three sights available for the pictures and thought it might be neat to document. If I were to push or recommend anything it's FOs for action shooting competition and plinking.
I'll work on the pictures. Maybe I can do better, with both types of sights.
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If I were to push or recommend anything it's FOs for action shooting competition and plinking.
Maybe for games or plinking but for carry I want sights that don't break if struck. Tritium sights are steel.
Besides they make great "Glock Locator Lights" in a dark bedroom. :)
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Besides they make great "Glock Locator Lights" in a dark bedroom. :)
I've never misplaced mine, but that's funny.
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and btw, I'm so anal retentive.
Red front sight 'cause that's where tha fire come out.
Green rear sights, 'cause that's were you want to be standing when you fire tha thang.
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Cool photos Alf. I just have FO sights on my Remington 870. Come in handy at lowlight shots at bambi during hunting season.
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Great job Alf. I have XS big dot on several of my guns. I find them easy to pick up in the dark now that i'm older with less than perfect eye sight. I like the XS sights because i CAN see more of the target. I have played with them in and around the house ( safely of course ) and I have mixed reviews. Some times they are great and sometimes the brightness obscures the target. I think practice is parmount along with proper target ID.
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I don't often disagree with Rob, but on this topic, I do. I've been carrying tritium sights on my service pistols since they first became available. Working a one man patrol car, at night, in Oregon weather, big city or country roads, or S. California alleys, in virtually every scenario you can think of, I have never had a problem aligning my sights to my intended target. I can not think of a single situation where I was in total darkness. Unless in a closet or photography dark room, there is always some ambient light. With proper technique, it is not difficult to distinguish front from rear night sights.
In some of the darker situations is where smart flashlight use is applied. FO sights are great when there is light, but not so much when the lights go dim.
My experience and opinion, your mileage may vary.
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Great job Alf. I have XS big dot on several of my guns. I find them easy to pick up in the dark now that i'm older with less than perfect eye sight. I like the XS sights because i CAN see more of the target. I have played with them in and around the house ( safely of course ) and I have mixed reviews. Some times they are great and sometimes the brightness obscures the target. I think practice is parmount along with proper target ID.
I'm a big fan of the XS big dots as well. I like that on the front/rear sets the rear is very subdued, not a 2 dot. Where I think they are at their best though is the front sight only for snubbies. I've been carrying a M&P 340 in a pocket holster pretty regularly now and I love the front big dot on the J frame so much that I've got one in transit to XS for installation now and another to follow when it gets back. Very soon all 3 of my J frames will wear the big dot front sight.