The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: primacord2257 on January 18, 2008, 12:31:21 PM
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Just came across your web site. Love the show. I have 2 carry weapons. One is a 9mm and the other is a detective S&W .38.
Question I have that maybe someone can help me with is what ammo has the best stopping power for the .38?
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Just came across your web site. Love the show. I have 2 carry weapons. One is a 9mm and the other is a detective S&W .38.
Question I have that maybe someone can help me with is what ammo has the best stopping power for the .38?
Try Speer gold dot 135 +P's They are made for short barrel guns. The knock down power is just short of a 357 out of the same length barrel.
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How old is your S&W? Is it rated for +p? If so have you fired and +p in it? On another post many people spoke highly of the Speer Gold Dot but it depends on the answers to the above questions. Go back to page 10 and read the posts under expanding full metal jacket for more.
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How old is your S&W? Is it rated for +p? If so have you fired and +p in it? On another post many people spoke highly of the Speer Gold Dot but it depends on the answers to the above questions. Go back to page 10 and read the posts under expanding full metal jacket for more.
Good point! I should have asked if his gun was rated for +P. Sometimes I need to be corrected "Just ask my wife!". :o
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primacord,
Is your gun chambered for 38 S&W or 38 S&W Special, AKA 38 Special?
Smith produced the Terrier until the '70s I believe and it was chambered in 38 S&W, not Special.
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Thank you guys for responding. The information is very helpful. The gun is a S&W, J frame, 5 Shot Detective witha 2" Barrel. I purchased the gun from a private owner (family friend) back in 1988. How would I go about finding out if the gun was rated for +P ammo?
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It is a S&W .38 Special.
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It will say 38 Special +P on the barrel. The gun is not a "Detective" either as I don't think Smith ever used that term. If it has a hammer it is a Chiefs Special. If the hammer has a shroud it is a Bodyguard. If it has an interneral hammer it is an Centennial.
If it doesn't say 38 Special +P on the barrel I would be leary of shooting +P ammo in the gun even in small amounts. Federal, Remington, and Winchester all have 110 grain JHP's at standard pressure for such guns. Problem is the 110 grain bullet will probably shoot low as the odds are the gun was sighted in with 158 grain bullets. If the 110 JHP's shoot low try a 158 grain standard SWC (HP, if you can find it) or a 148 grain wadcutter bullet.
Some will advocate carrying the gun with +P and doing all your practice with standard ammo and that is one thing to consider. I have never been comfortable with that.
If you haven't been practicing with your Chief I would suggest limiting practice session to 20-25 rounds. I start off with a cylinder full of +P and do the rest of the session with standard ammo. I reload, but if you don't the 100 pak of Winchester sold at Wal Mart is good practice ammo. The cylinder latch will likely abrade your thumb so either wear shooting gloves or use a bandaid with the wound pad facing the cylinder latch BEFORE you start shooting.
If you are an experienced J frame shooter please forgive the above since I couldn't tell from your original post.
One last thought, there is no bullet that will make any handgun a hammer of Thor. I don't get hung up on one bullet as being the perfect bullet for self defense. I will load my guns with Golden Saber, Gold Dot, Hydra Shok, Silvertip, etc. I don't pay attention to internet reports about bullets where some guy shot wet newspapers or water jugs as I judge the chance of my being attacked by an alien water jug as pretty low. Choose any of the premium SD loads avaialble and you haven't "gone wrong".
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......One last thought, there is no bullet that will make any handgun a hammer of Thor. I don't get hung up on one bullet as being the perfect bullet for self defense. I will load my guns with Golden Saber, Gold Dot, Hydra Shok, Silvertip, etc. I don't pay attention to internet reports about bullets where some guy shot wet newspapers or water jugs as I judge the chance of my being attacked by an alien water jug as pretty low. Choose any of the premium SD loads avaialble and you haven't "gone wrong".
Claythingyflingy is exactly right. There is no "Hammer of Thor" out there....the bad guys don't fall in real life like in the movies.
I've spoken with Jim Scoutten (did I say that here?) and some LEO's...the do recommend the Speer Gold Dot for .38's. Some contacts from USSA recommend Expanding Full Metal Jacket for .45's...etc, etc.?
Breath, relax, aim...squeeze. Bullet going downrange where it's supposed to go....better than any particular brand.
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I beg to differ, but it will not say +p on the barrel. I have a old model 649 .38 spl unlike the new models .38/.357 its a .38 only, but I called S&W and they said it was rated for +ps . I would call or email them. OTOH I have never found that a few +ps would hurt a well made revolver in good shape.
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Thanks for the great advice. I will contact S&W just to make sure. The only thing on the barrel is "S&W .38 SPCL." It is a 5 shot and it does have an exposed hammer. I'm not too familiar with the gun, my main carry weapon is a 9mm. Thanks for the clarification on the "detective". I assumed that's what it was since a salesman at a local gunshop referred to it as such. I guess it proves what they say about assuming. You guys are a wealth of knowledge.
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In truth, I carry Hornady non- +P 125-gr JHPs in my snubs. My rationale is that on a pocket pistol, shot placement trumps bullet expansion/penetration. And I want the follow-up shots to be there, and for me that becomes an issue with the hyper-pressure. 38s (and certainly the .357 snubs). I use the Hornadys in all my snubs, including the heavier Ruger SP101, the titanium Taurus Ultra-Lites and the S&Ws.
I agree that if you shoot the hot stuff, you'll get used to it...but DARN, that is expensive!!! I typicall practice with .38 cowboy out of the snubs, because I always have it around and it with the heavier lead bullet it actually feels hotter than the 125 JHPs.
The most important thing is HAVE A GUN!
Michael B
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Open the cylinder and check for model # (something like 36-2 or 442-3). If it was made around 1988 it's not +p rated. I'm not sure what exactly MB is carrying but it 's OK with me.
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In truth, I carry Hornady non- +P 125-gr JHPs in my snubs. My rationale is that on a pocket pistol, shot placement trumps bullet expansion/penetration..............
The most important thing is HAVE A GUN!
Michael B
There I was....happy in life without a snubbie :D. Then there was this show on the Outdoor Channel with some guy named Rausch and some guy name of Bane :o....now I gots me three snubbies ;D. Is there like some kind of subliminal message going on in these shows ::) ?
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I found some old stock Federal .38 special 125 gr. Nyclad HP +P at my local gun shop and now it's my load of choice in my snubbie. Later went back to the store and bought all of it!
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I agree that if you shoot the hot stuff, you'll get used to it...but DARN, that is expensive!!! I typicall practice with .38 cowboy out of the snubs, because I always have it around and it with the heavier lead bullet it actually feels hotter than the 125 JHPs.
The most important thing is HAVE A GUN!
Michael B
MB,
You complain about the cost of +P but then state you do your practice with cowboy ammo? Factory store bought cowboy ammo is about double the cost of generic USA (WWB), UMC (REM), S&B, or other practice ammo. I try to practice once a month and I shoot a cylinder of +P and the rest standard pressure reloads. 60 rounds a year of +P isn't too bad cost wise. If it became an issue I would simply shoot the +P less and the reloads more!
The "have a gun statement" I agree with wholeheartedly and am glad you are not one of these gun writing buttholes who say nothing less than a 45 1911 will do for SD.
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Mojave Desert, I like the old S&W/Federal Nyclad 125 gr. Chief Special non +p but technology has passed us by.
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If your gun is rated for +P, I like the Federal 110gr. +P+ LEO load. I wouldn't shoot them out of a non +P rated gun but other wise they make great power for a snuby ;D. But regardless of what you shoot shot placement will trump power any day!
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Your discussion on .38 carry loads has got me thinking...so I loaded up some plastic milk jugs with water and fired a few choice loads I had on hand.
1) Federal 125gr Nyclad HP +P: expands to .75, penetrates to 8".
2) Federal 129gr Hydra-Shok JHP +P: no expansion, penetrates 17".
3) Winchester 158gr Lead HP +P: very slight expansion, penetrates 15".
Also noteworthy are the effects on the first jug hit by the various rounds.
I used a S&W M-60 with 1 7/8" barrel from 10', 45 degrees air temperture.
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I really like cor-bon ammo...and they have the Power Ball ammo that is dead on acurate. I also really like Barnes bullets, hunting or self defense it is Barnes bullets that have the best test data i have come across.
Also you should really try several diffrent loads. Some guns are really picky as to what you feed them. Hornady TAP ammo is also really good. Federal Hydra Shocks, if it si good enough for the police then it has to be good ammo right?