The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: billt on November 03, 2009, 02:10:12 PM
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(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9754/50bmg308223001.jpg)
(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4417/50bmg308223004.jpg)
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/549/50bmg308223003.jpg)
Just a few size comparison photos I threw together. 50 rounds of .50 BMG, .308, and .223. It really shows the difference. All are effective in their own environments, but just something about the .50 BMG cartridge that stands out. The case they are in is a MTM 100 round 12 Gauge Shotshell box. It comes with 2, 50 round trays. I removed the top one and use it for a loading block, and with the other one at the bottom, it makes a great 50 round transporter for the .50 BMG round. Bill T.
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Thanks for the comparison Bill. Amazing the size differance when you don't get a chance to see the three all together.
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Range video/report with the .50 comes out when??????? ??? ;D
At the price of BMG rounds it doesn't even have to be more than two or three.
That trophy dump truck is coming for you, and will look great over the mantle... ::)
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Range video/report with the .50 comes out when?
Hopefully in a few weeks. We've been crazy busy at work lately. But in a few weeks it will be getting nice and cool, and hopefully I can get out on one of the cool, crisp upcoming mornings and light her up! Bill T.
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Those .50 cases annealed? How come?
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There's something about the .50 that stands out? No S proffesor, its freaking huge. ;D The thing is, comparing it to .556 is an extreme example of that age old question of a few heavy and accurate rounds at long range, or lots of little ones at closer distances. Two rounds, two jobs. If I were forced to choose I'd take an AR over a .50 Barret any day. The .308, in the middle, is probably your best choice in an M1A1 or an FN FAL. Hard to wrong with either weapon.
FQ13
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Those .50 cases annealed? How come?
The .50 BMG rounds I have pictured are Federal XM-33 Ball. The rounds are Mil-Spec, and are produced at the Lake City Ammunition plant. One of the Mil-Spec's on ammunition is the case mouth be annealed. Another is a requirement for crimped in primers, which these rounds have as well. Annealing softens the brass at the neck. This achieves 2 things. It offers a better gas seal at the chamber mouth upon cartridge ignition, and second it allows the case to be reloaded more without the case splitting at the neck. Federal XM-193 Ball in .223 / 5.56 MM also has annealed case necks as does Mil-Spec .308. Bill T.
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Cool! I had no idea annealing was a mil-spec.. I would venture a guess they're primary concern wouldn't be reloading, It's not expensive, or time consuming to do, but I wonder what the primary reason may be. ??? Compensation for inconsistancies in chambers? Help with sealing in dirty chambers? I don't know if the process would help either for sure, but may. ???
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The .50 BMG rounds I have pictured are Federal XM-33 Ball. The rounds are Mil-Spec, and are produced at the Lake City Ammunition plant. One of the Mil-Spec's on ammunition is the case mouth be annealed. Another is a requirement for crimped in primers, which these rounds have as well. Annealing softens the brass at the neck. This achieves 2 things. It offers a better gas seal at the chamber mouth upon cartridge ignition, and second it allows the case to be reloaded more without the case splitting at the neck. Federal XM-193 Ball in .223 / 5.56 MM also has annealed case necks as does Mil-Spec .308. Bill T.
Interesting fact Bill, we love you for your knowledge, not just the gun porn. ;D
FQ13
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Bill, FQ is a liar !, If you keep posting gun porn we won't care if you are dumber than a stump. ;D
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Most EVERYTHING you may ever want to know about military small arms ammo. Including land mines, RPG's, and most anything else. Neat stuff to read. Still looking for why they'd want to have all their brass annealed though. I know all about handloaders doing it to prevent work hardening of the brass, leading to neck cracks. Just wondering what the military perogitive was.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12887234/Ammunition-General
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Just wondering what the military perogitive was.
Better gas seal at the case neck. Especially with machine gun rounds. M-2's fired a bit cleaner with less blow by. Bill T.
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After nearly going blind reading manuals, I've found bit's of answers in a few of them. This one sums it up as well as any. http://www.scribd.com/doc/4934783/BALLISTICS-AND-AMMUNITION
Military brass cases use 70% one material 30% another (I'm not going back in there to see what they were. brass & copper I believe), ALONG WITH the steel, and aluminum cases used (as well as "other metals") they're all hardened to the point that if the necks of the cases were not annealed, they wouldn't flex enough to seal in gases upon firing. SO, military brass is harder than commercial brass, thus, HAS to be annealed at the neck to prevent blow back gases, and case splitting even on the first firing.
I need a beer now! ;)
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Oh, I also learned. Among other things, the military case walls and heads need to be harder than commercial stuff due to possible use in belt fed weapons (I've had Remington commercial .308 brass I could squish nearly flat with my fingers it was so soft.).
I was just curious. ;)
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I had some mil-spec ammo that looked like it wasn't annealed. I guess they polished the color off.
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I HATE you
love the picks would love to here a range report ( must have picks though )
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Brass itself is a "funny" kind of metal. By that I mean it is difficult to achieve consistent hardness from heat to heat. That, combined with the amount of draw steps can result in very hard cartridge brass that, without annealing, can fail on the first firing. The fact the .50 BMG case is thick and long makes this condition worse as far as sealing the chamber at the case neck. That is the main reason you rarely see .50 BMG cases that are not annealed. Some may appear to be, but that is from vigorous tumbling and polishing.
The most consistent, workable brass comes from Lapua. It goes through several heat treatment processes that prevents the metal from over hardening and becoming brittle through the entire drawing process. They are also annealed. They also eliminate stress in the case by drilling the flash hole instead of punching it. It is not at all uncommon for benchrest shooters to reload a single Lapua case 2 dozen times or more. I purchased 200, .308 Lapua cases, and you can tell the difference by how easily they go through a resizing die. Very smooth and effortless, and they require less lubrication as well. I'm told Nosler brass is of very high quality, but as of yet I have not tried it. Bill T.
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As long as we're posting size comparisons, here's a .50 BMG, 6.5 Grendel and 5.56 all based on the AR platform
(http://i25.tinypic.com/b991k3.jpg)
(http://i31.tinypic.com/zveply.jpg)
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As long as we're posting size comparisons, here's a .50 BMG, 6.5 Grendel and 5.56 all based on the AR platform
just added you to my I HATE YOU list :P ;)
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As long as we're posting size comparisons, here's a .50 BMG, 6.5 Grendel and 5.56 all based on the AR platform
(http://i31.tinypic.com/zveply.jpg)
How does that big cartridge get through that little bitty mag well?? ;D Bill T.
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How does that big cartridge get through that little bitty mag well
Mildly funny story.
One day, I was doing my typical eclectic thing at the range and was shooting an FAL and my Sharps.
After finishing the FAL, I returned it to the rack and started shooting the Sharps. A man and son came over from their WalMart special package deal rifle to see what the "funny looking rifle was". I explained the Sharps to them and let them shoot it. Since I still had FAL mags sitting on the bench, I slipped a .45-70 round in one of them and told them that I had converted the Sharps to a mag fed rifle so when I got in close the buffalo herd I could shoot faster.
They didn't get it...
Fun with noobs.
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Sweet. I read a article that in 2003 a Canadian soldier got a 2435 meter kill with the 50 bmg, and in 2006 a ssg with the 82 got a 1600 meter kill with the .308 both new records.
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http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=9824.0
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q76G7F4dV8
"2,430m in Afghanistan during Operation Anaconda in 2002"
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This about says it all.