The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: alfsauve on July 07, 2011, 07:41:21 AM
-
All of a sudden I've got this desire for an FN FNAR, .308 tactical using the BAR (hunting version) action. Tack driver in a semi-auto package.
(http://sgcusa.com/images/FNAR_British_308_Blog.jpg)
So I noticed there are some good buys out there on the auction sites.
Typically sells for ~$1,400.
$1,199 NIB http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=240138680 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=240138680)
$850 w/ 3 magazines http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239280865 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239280865)
$899 BUY NOW http://www.gunsamerica.com/967178110/Guns/Rifles/FNH-Fabrique-Nationale-Rifles/Semi-auto/Other/FN_FNAR_Semi_Auto_Rifle_in_7_62_NATO_Use.htm# (http://www.gunsamerica.com/967178110/Guns/Rifles/FNH-Fabrique-Nationale-Rifles/Semi-auto/Other/FN_FNAR_Semi_Auto_Rifle_in_7_62_NATO_Use.htm#)
$950 w/ muzzel thread http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=240086172 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=240086172)
$1,025 w/ bipod, 3200 scope http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239535363 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239535363)
Decision. Decision.
Oh wait. No money this month.......duh.
Alf <--- will work for ammo and guns
-
Aw, c'mon Alf. Just buy it. You don't need food or gas money. ;D
-
I'm back and forth on this weapon. I like it because it is a well proven action. I don't like it because it is way overpriced when compared to a all steel receivered Safari BAR, which can be had in .308 for around $850.00, compared to the Aluminum receivered FNAR for $1,100.00. All you get with the FNAR is magazine capacity and the "Tacticool" look.
The Safari Grade has a beautiful blued finish, all steel receiver, along with a nicely finished Walnut stock. It can also be had with the B.O.S.S. System and Magnum chamberings, up to and including .338 Win. Mag. It's just a nicer, cheaper rifle that gives a lot more for your money when compared to the FNAR. However, they are accurate, and can be had in a heavy barrel. The magazines are proprietary and very expensive. They are also difficult to obtain. So it basically all boils down to how much you want it over a M1-A, FAL, CETME, or any of the .308 AR models that are out there. Bill T.
-
Get the M1-A.... ::)
Or you could build an AR-10 practically identical to the LWRC REPR, MSRP $2800, for $1500 or less......piece by piece over time.
just my humble one and a half cents,..... ;)
Although the FN does have that "tacticool" look, and is a very nice rifle...
-
Scottsdale Gun Club has them for $1,199.00 for the Heavy Barreled Model. That's cheaper than Cabela's. Bill T.
http://sgcusa.com/rifles/fn/fn-ar-308-heavy-20-barrel.html
-
I won't say a word. Cause it only takes three letters... F A L ;D
-
F A L......I've looked at them and would rather have the FNAR. The imported FALs don't look really great and the SA58 is a bit pricier than the FNAR. If I'm going to have a .308 seim-auto, I think the FNAR is the way to go. Remember I lean toward accuracy, but can't afford a Les Baer.
And by the by, two FNARs have recently sold on auction sites for <$1,000 with shipping in the last 48 hours! You can buy them all day for $1,199 NIB.
Just a matter of some creative accounting with the wife.
-
Sounds like you've done your research, and know what you want. Commit and buy that puppy! It's looong been said. "Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission". ;D ;)
Then again, don't listen to me. After two weeks of shopping for and choosing the right new shooting toys, I just spent that much buying a second scooter cause we always fight over who gets to ride the one we have now. :-\
I had narrowed it down to a 9-shot Mossberg Mariner, or a MPA Defender. And coulda got em both for what the scooter cost!
-
1.) It's a weapon.
2.) You want it because you like it.
3.) The price has come down, and it's a good one.
4.)BUY IT!!! Like Mt. Everest, because it's there. Bill T.
-
Didn't WatchmanUSA, win the MB FNAR last year? Hmmm,....don't remember a range report......perhaps a "Hey Man" to him would provide some personal insight....
-
I'm noticing the price is up another $200.00 on this same gun. Not such a great buy at $1,400.00 as it was at $1,200.00. Instead I would spring for this Armalite AR-10. Being Direct Impingement they are less ammo sensitive than the M1-A's and FNAR's. Bill T.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=251610141
-
In the last week, and I hope it's not a trend, all the firearm models I've been following have taken a sudden and in sometimes dramatic increase. FN FNARs, S&W 625x and 627s have all either jumped in price or the bargains have disappeared.
Could the market be signalling something ominous?
-
In the last week, and I hope it's not a trend, all the firearm models I've been following have taken a sudden and in sometimes dramatic increase. FN FNARs, S&W 625x and 627s have all either jumped in price or the bargains have disappeared.
Could the market be signalling something ominous?
Could be. Lots of warnings out there about the collapse of the $ being certain and imminent. True or not, many are going to try to make investments other than the $.
Gold is in demand....but "prepers" know that you can't eat gold and you sure can't put game on the table with it. Guns also hold value pretty well. Barter should be easier with guns than gold.
So, with guns, you are both protected from the predicted crash of the $ and TEOTWAWKI. Besides, for most of us here, fondling guns is more enjoyable than fondling gold...isn't it?
-
Could the market be signalling something ominous?
I don't think so. I say that because I watch prices and speed of movement on several websites like the one with the AR-10 I linked to, as well as Davidson's, and the Cabela's store near me. A lot of these weapons have been for sale for literally months, were as in a good economy they would sell in mere days. That AR-10 has been offered for at least 2 months now, and that guy is near me and he normally moves a lot of guns.
Davidson's is selling much fewer guns than just a few years ago, even before Hussein got elected and the market was somewhat stable. I'm also seeing much slower restocking because of stores unwillingness to invest large sums in inventory, only to have it sit on the rack for weeks and months.
Some of this will pick up with the hunting season coming up. Places like Cabela's will be sending out flyer's with many guns on sale. But overall things are appearing to be slow in the firearms industry right now. You would think that would account for cheaper prices now, not increases. But that just doesn't appear to be the case. Perhaps the people who are buying now aren't effected by the bad economy, and a couple of hundred bucks either way isn't going to send them away on the gun they want, and have the money for? Bill T.
-
I think the retailers are raising prices now and when stuff goes on sale for hunting season the bargains seem that much better. Most people don't track prices, they only know that it was $1300 yesterday, but today it's on sale for $1000. Doesn't matter that it was $850 a month before, because they had no idea.
When Borders went into bankruptcy and was taken over by the liquidation company, the very first thing they did was raise prices on everything in the stores. Then they started discounting.
-
What do you suspect comes in a box like this?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-I2UvyLFUaEg/TpoHsw-NITI/AAAAAAAAmKY/tAchngn2nwg/s640/IMG_5893.JPG)
(http://)
And shoots 5 shot, 100yds groups like this out of the box, with the Winchester white box ammo?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kMIPlWqyJUA/TpoH1H8t8vI/AAAAAAAAmKw/2hgWe-2wXHE/s454/FNFNAR30YdTarget.jpg)
And only cost me $959?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-N2D2rPTl-GI/TpoHyk7LkZI/AAAAAAAAmKo/Sy7qruNyxgs/s640/IMG_5919.JPG)
Prices have gone up since the summer, I've saited and stalked the on-line sites for several months now. The opportunity popped up and I grabbed it. Not NIB, but RNIB. Had been re-furbished by FNH to new condition and came with factory letter. Had a scratch or two, very small, but other than that as good as new for $300-400 less. I've only put 20 rounds through it, and that target was the last five. I now have a more rounds and I can't wait to hit the range again next Friday. It is one smooth operating and smooth firing gun. That's a Bushnell Legend 5-15x scope on top. And I picked up a 9-13" bipod for it today. I wish I had easy access to ranges longer than 100yds. The safety is behind the trigger and isn't as tactically easy to operative as AR platforms. However, this isn't a CQB weapon so I'm not concerned. Magazine prices have fallen lately and are now under $50. Not as cheap as AR or an M1A1, but I think a much better hunting and .30 caliber long range package.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qWaswg48tws/TpoHucNmk3I/AAAAAAAAmKc/gUpEKomqyb8/s640/IMG_5916.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qxAIuJ5wikY/TpoHxFRwn0I/AAAAAAAAmKk/0Qp3plS22uA/s640/IMG_5918.JPG)
-
That Sir, is an Evil Black Rifle....
What is the purpose for such an instrument?
Why couldn't a Bolt Action, be enough????
I am kidding, but Congratulations!!! I remember DRTV "gave" mine away to another member,....(bastard)... :P
Forgot the pistol grip is but ugly, but the rifle is about as good as it gets...
Between the FNAR, and the M1-A,....well,..... ::)
Good call alf,....let's see a vid...and wear your Fedora.... ;D
-
What is the lever below the bolt handle ?
-
What is the lever below the bolt handle ?
Bolt release.
-
Didn't WatchmanUSA, win the MB FNAR last year? Hmmm,....don't remember a range report......perhaps a "Hey Man" to him would provide some personal insight....
I really like my FNAR! BTW-I did a range report shortly after I received it from MB. It is a really good shooter.
I just did an upgrade and put an AGOG with a RMR red dot on it replacing the cheapo scope I put on at first. I did that so I could use it in IDPA DMG. The long scope didn't work too well for quick target acquisition in transitions. Not to mention the added recoil but I don't have another semi-auto rifle right now. I looking to find an AR to use in DMG.
At 100 yards with a rest using the AGOG I can put groups together within a 50-cent piece. At target using the RMR I can get within a 25-cent piece.
Last weekend I had a DMG match where one of the stages I had to stand and there was no wall or barrel to use as a support. We were shooting at 8-inch steel targets. It took me a few shots to get my timing down as the AGOG did the usual figure-8 but once I got the timing the hits came easier.
-
Thanks WatchMan! I didn't remember the initial range report.....I also remember,.....there were NO PICS!!!!!!
Throw us a bone here..... ::)
Based on the post alf did with his,....The damn thing is a tack driver out of the box. That's alright...You won, stole it fair and square...
;)
-
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=10495.30
Chack out Page 4.
I'll take some additional pics with the AGOG for ya.
-
I too forgot about your report Watchman. I obviously love mine as you do yours. Wish mine had been free, but then I got the 1911 so I can't complain.
I only wish I had easier access to outdoor range to spend more time with my rifles.
-
What kind of magazine does it use? Is it propitiatory or FAL or AR-10?
-
Tommy,
Unfortunately, they use a proprietary magazine. Prices have come down some as more of them are in circulation. A future project may be to look at M14, AR10 and FAL mags to see if they can be adapted.
-
I always try to find some interesting discussions regarding AR308. Actually I am finding some 308 ar manufacturers online. I will appreciate it if you will share some 308 ar manufacturers here in your thread. Thank you.
________________________
308 ar manufacturers (http://www.centralscrewproducts.com/detroit-gun-works/ar-15-lower-receiver)
-
Sorry, goms, had a busy weekend.
The original "AR" was actually the AR-10 in 7.62 (.308). The AR-15 (5.56) came later. The .308 AR platform will shoot a whole family of calibers based on the .308 case. It includes besides the .308Win, the 260Rem (6.5mm), the 7mm-08 and the .338Fed (~8mm). (There may even be a 6mm and a 5.5mm caliber, too.) All use the same case, just necked up or down to the caliber. That means only the barrel (upper) needs to be changed. The lower and the magazines all work with all the calibers.
There are numerous manufacturers of this style. Here are a few links.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=14 (http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=14)
http://www.bushmaster.com/index.asp (http://www.bushmaster.com/index.asp)
http://www.lesbaer.com/UltMonolith-MID-SWAT.html (http://www.lesbaer.com/UltMonolith-MID-SWAT.html)
In other "tactical" designs of semi-autos that shoot the .308, (besides the FN FNAR) there's the venerable FN FAL. Most widely adopted auto rifle. I think the list of countries runs around 90 that have adopted it at one time or another. There are many variations, many manufacturers (mostly overseas). Here's the Wikipedia link about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL)
And a current US manufacturer.
http://www.dsarms.com/FAL-SA58%20Rifles/products/8/ (http://www.dsarms.com/FAL-SA58%20Rifles/products/8/)
Last, but certainly not least is the US M1A1, the semi-auto of the M14. It comes in varying models, like SOCOM, scout/tanker, sniper and match version. I only separate it out from the others because it is unique from the AR and FN platforms. The M1A is available in traditional wood stock and in tacti-cool configurations. Here's a couple of links
http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=13 (http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=13)
http://www.selwayarmory.com/sfsocomm1arifle308bluedblackcompositestock.aspx (http://www.selwayarmory.com/sfsocomm1arifle308bluedblackcompositestock.aspx)
http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14-Rifles.aspx (http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14-Rifles.aspx)
There are many more manufactures but I hope that gets you started. Alf
If any of the links don't work, just go to the basic domain (xxxxxxxx.com) and drill down for the appropriate product.
-
Another thing Goms, don't be fooled by the designation.
The FN has no relation to the Armalite "AR" design.
The letters stand for Fabrique Nationale Automatic Rifle.
It is supposedly a 21st century up grade of the BAR.
-
Another thing Goms, don't be fooled by the designation.
The FN has no relation to the Armalite "AR" design.
The letters stand for Fabrique Nationale Automatic Rifle.
It is supposedly a 21st century up grade of the BAR.
But man oh man the original.... my Grandfather returned from WWII with one, and two Gov't 1911's...He knew how to get around the " turn back in" policy....and they were stolen from his Texas apt. in the 70's....
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb210/flamingkamikazi/bar-mast.jpg)
Wish I could turn back the hands of time.
-
Uh, guys? Goms is a spamming troll. Post count =1, and hyperlink in the signature, classic symbols of a single posting troll.
-
Uh, guys? Goms is a spamming troll. Post count =1, and hyperlink in the signature, classic symbols of a single posting troll.
Yeah, but any excuse to talk about cool guns is a good excuse. ;D
-
Yeah, but if it turns out he's really interested, it doesn't hurt to respond.
TW the BAR in the FN FNAR isn't the M1918 machine gun, but the Browning Automatic Rifle - hunting type.
(http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/D11/32/32664.jpg)
-
Yeah, but any excuse to talk about cool guns is a good excuse. ;D
Right. This from a guy with 23,557 posts!!!!! ;D
Doesn't seem like you have to much trouble finding something to talk about. ;)
Just sayin' . . . . . . .
-
This is good stuff though instead of b!tching about politics. ;D
There's ALWAYS something to rant about there >:(
-
This is good stuff though instead of b!tching about politics. ;D
There's ALWAYS something to rant about there >:(
I've avoided the politics for a while and I feel much better ;D
-
BTW any new range reports on ANY of the .308 variants mentioned here? Come on, I'm stuck in Wisconsin for the next two weeks and I am having a .308 OCD moment!
-
Now that you mention it Magoo. Or has it been 3 years already?
Wow. First time to a rifle range in over 3 years. I've remedied that, now belong to River Bend Gun Club. 100, 200, 500 and 600 yard ranges for rifle.
So I went today. First time to an outdoor rifle range in... well over 3 years. Here's how the FNAR did. Not impressed. Not the consistency I would have liked.
(https://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-dwdqKRL/0/XL/IMG_20150731_154835513-XL.jpg)
Also on the negative side, I didn't like the Nikon 6x fixed scope that I have on it. Eye relief and positioning was a little touchy and the very plain reticle was... very plain.
-
Kind of scattered there Alf, are you sure it's the gun ?
😇
-
Whatever that is its dead!
-
Kind of scattered there Alf, are you sure it's the gun ?
😇
You mean everybody doesn't shoot that group standing?
How I wish. Heavy bean bags. 6x scope.
-
What ammo were you using? might want to try something different.
-
That will be the next trip. All I had was the 149gr stuff. A variety for sure next time.
-
Do you know the rifling twist rate?
-
One of the ammo companies, I THINK it was Remington, had a function on their website where you entered your barrel length and rifling twist and it would tell you the best bullet weight to use.
It was something I heard about a couple years ago.
-
One of the ammo companies, I THINK it was Remington, had a function on their website where you entered your barrel length and rifling twist and it would tell you the best bullet weight to use.
It was something I heard about a couple years ago.
That is very true.
Bullet weight determines bullet length and rifling twist is has a large impact on stabilizing a bullet of a given length.
-
Thanks all for the suggestions.
I will gather a number of different bullet weights and loads for the next trip with the .308s. It'll be a couple weeks before I take them out to the range. I have other projects lined up at the range for at least the rest of August.
-
Sinclair’s Simple Twist Rate Measurement Method
If are unsure of the twist rate of the barrel, you can measure it yourself in a couple of minutes. You need a good cleaning rod with a rotating handle and a jag with a fairly tight fitting patch. Utilize a rod guide if you are accessing the barrel through the breech or a muzzle guide if you are going to come in from the muzzle end. Make sure the rod rotates freely in the handle under load. Start the patch into the barrel for a few inches and then stop. Put a piece of tape at the back of the rod by the handle (like a flag) or mark the rod in some way. Measure how much of the rod is still protruding from the rod guide. You can either measure from the rod guide or muzzle guide back to the flag or to a spot on the handle. Next, continue to push the rod in until the mark or tape flag has made one complete revolution. Re-measure the amount of rod that is left sticking out of the barrel. Use the same reference marks as you did on the first measurement. Next, subtract this measurement from the first measurement. This number is the twist rate. For example, if the rod has 24 inches remaining at the start and 16 inches remain after making one revolution, you have 8 inches of travel, thus a 1:8 twist barrel.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/gunsmithing/how-to-determine-barrel-twist-rate/
-
Simple effective and a cool idea.😁
-
when I've measured twist, I push the rod in from the muzzle into the chamber and then pull back towards the muzzle an inch or two. Then I mark the rod at the muzzle and continue pulling until the mark is in the same position...then I just have to measure how much new rod was exposed....eliminate the math.
Don't know of any downside to doing it that way, but someone might have one?
-
Alf,
The FNAR in .308 has a 1 in 12" twist. I've read all over the place these guns are very capable of shooting MOA or better. They're most likely to do that with Federal Gold Medal which utilizes the Sierra 168 Gr. Matchking Bullet.
These guns are basically Browning BAR's that accept a large capacity, detachable box magazine. That rifle has always been a decent shooter. If you haven't tried it yet, I would for certain pick up a couple boxes of the Federal Gold Medal stuff, along with the Black Hills equivalent of the same stuff. Go on a nice calm day, and I'll bet those groups will tighten up considerably.
There is one other thing I would suggest, if the Gold Medal factory ammo doesn't do the trick. Make up some handloads using the Sierra Matchking in both 168 Gr., and 155Gr. Go with 42.0 grains of Varget for both. Use Match Primers, and trim the brass to minimum overall length. Seat the bullets no more than .020 off the lands, and DO NOT CRIMP. Single load each round directly into the chamber, letting the action slam shut good and tight on each round. Take time prepping the cases, being sure to inside chamfer the neck, etc.
Varget has a good mid range burn rate, and 42.0 Gr. of it is perfect for both of my Springfield M1-A's. Your FNAR should swallow them without a hiccup as well. This load will cycle your action without damaging your op-rod. In fact, it's listed as a load for the M1-A and M-14 Service Rifle. Semi auto .308's do not like slow burning powders, because they put too much stress on the action, by allowing it to cycle while it is still under too much pressure. This load also shoots one hole groups at 100 yards with both of my Savage bolt action .308's. A Model 10-FP, and a Model 12FT/R. So I know they're good to go with a 1 in 10" twist which both of those rifles have.
Seeing as your rifle has a 1 in 12" twist, keep everything the same as I described, except drop down to the 155 Gr. Sierra Matchking. It's a bit shorter, and should improve accuracy in that slower twist rate barrel. It has the same ogive as the 168 Gr. Matchking, so you shouldn't have to adjust your seating die to hold the same cartridge O.A.L. Let me know what washes out. I'm guessing that gun will tighten up like a virgin on prom night.
-
http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/autoloading-rifles/fnar-heavy/
According to these tech specs., your gun does have a 1 in 12" twist rate. That said, I would still go with the 168 Gr. Matchking in either the Federal Gold Medal, or handloads. If the results aren't satisfactory, then drop down to the 155 Gr. Matchking.
-
If you reload you can now get Sierra Match King tipped bullets that are more aerodynamic than the old MK bullets. https://www.sierrabullets.com/products/bullets/rifle.cfm/brandID/8
-
Bilt, Thanks for all the info. It'll be on the back shelf for a month while I cycle through all the other things I want to do at my new range. Probably will hold another .308 day around labor day. In the meantime, I'll collect some 20rnd samples of various ammo to try.
-
If you reload you can now get Sierra Match King tipped bullets that are more aerodynamic than the old MK bullets. https://www.sierrabullets.com/products/bullets/rifle.cfm/brandID/8
I've seen those, but have yet to try them. They are basically Sierra's version of the Nosler Ballistic Tip, which is a very accurate bullet. As or more accurate than the Sierra Matchking. I have several rifles that shoot the Nosler Ballistic Tips just as tight as the Sierra's. The Polymer tip is much more uniform, and can be shot out of box magazines without any deformation of the tip from recoil.