The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: alfsauve on June 11, 2022, 04:07:37 PM
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How many are following the minor story about USPSA and the Colorado laws?
As I understand it, Colorado law doesn't allow >15 round magazines, made after 2013. Of course how do they prove it was manufactured after 2013?
Anyway, USPSA has chosen to ignore this for their 2-gun and hi-cap nationals (Open, Ltd, PCC) at Cameo facility. They have not implemented rule 3.3.1 which says they are to inform competitors they might be in violation of state laws. One or two sponsors have withdrawn their support because regardless of whether Colorado intends to enforce the law or not, it appears to be against the law. All it would take is some hot-shot DA with a burr under his/her blanket to swoop in and put the hurts on the competition.
Interesting in that many full size guns, like those used in the hi-cap divisions, won't even take a 15round mag because the grip is too long. I know my Legend X5 won't. And I wonder what IDPA's stance is with their nationals coming up? Again how many ESP, SSP and COs even accommodate a 15 rd mag? Does USPSA & IDPA expect competitors to buy all new magazines expressly for Colorado? And wouldn't that put the kibash on large capacity competition?
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Thier crappy gun laws are why I refuse to hunt in co
Very pretty state,but boy did it get a case of the liberals.
I don't know why they would not inform the attendees that they might be breaking the law. I know for a fact that I don't have any 10+ round mags made before 2013... damn ka bs laws.
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Thier crappy gun laws are why I refuse to hunt in co
<snip>
Yeah
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Does the law apply to larger competitions? I recall a while back that a competition caused a similar conflict with California law. Some how they gained an exemption for the competitors and competition. I don't recall the particulars, but I do remember the uproar and that the competition went on.
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No such exemption is mentioned in the state statute. You might be exempt via federal law if you are just passing through the state, but I don't think you can use that if CO is your destination.
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The federal law is for travel, and if you stop to use the firearm for hunting or competition you are not "just passing through," even if you continue on somewhere else that is not your home.
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After the 2-gun Nationals, USPSA has been served notice that Colorado Parks will require an affidavit from each competitor, under penalty of perjury, that they are in compliance with all CO laws.
USPSA has moved the remaining Nationals, Open, Limited, PCC. & Production to CMP.
Wonder when we'll hear from IDPA?
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RIGHT AFTER I posted that comment about IDPA, guess what? Not that my post made any difference but IDPA, Joyce, issued a press release saying that it was too late to move the IDPA Nationals, but no worries just sign the waiver. The waiver says that if you possess any magazines >15 rounds you swear, under penalty of perjury, you've owned them since before 7/1/2013. That's NINE years ago.
In affect they're turning a misdemeanor into a felony. See, if you're stopped and questioned about your magazine you don't have to say anything. You don't have to tell them when you bought it, from where or how long you've had it. The burden of proof is on the government to find all that out. But with a "waiver", well now the tables are tilted a little bit. I've toyed with going, if I could get a slot, but definitely not going now, even if I were shooting CCP or CDP.
Okay, I realize only the PCC division has more than 15 rounds. So I guess they'll be shooting that as PCC-10. I know my SSP gun and I'm betting a number of others might not take magazines as SMALL as 15 rounds. For P320 users can change to a compact grip, but sheez, way to ruin a two divisions.
https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/CO_Waiver.pdf (https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/CO_Waiver.pdf)
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Snakes always want to bite. If they can set you up first, they will.
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Evidently, it appears they may be breaking the law in Maryland, too.
Just watched a video of a PCC shooter in the MD State USPSA match. I checked Practiscore and there were 28 shooter in PCC. Imagine that, all of those shooter owned those >10 round PCC mags since 2013. Wow! Cause the one in the video certainly had a l-a-r-g-e capacity magazine and from the score I don't think anyone was shooting it with only 10 rounds.
Here's the real problem for USPSA and IDPA: They can <wink> <wink> at the law and the local gendarmerie may say they can't be bother with enforcement, but one DA who's so motivated can not only make a case against competitors, but can then possibly cite the organizers with conspiracy to break the law. Don't think at the federal level this might not go unnoticed with the thought of bringing RICO charges. Oh wouldn't that be a gun control coup to put USPSA and IDPA out of business?
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OK. If you don't delete that I'm going to call it "aiding and abetting".
Seriously I think you are on to something. Wouldn't the lying news media love RICO on the evening news....
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Just saw some of the videos from MD State USPSA match. The PCC shooters looked good with their 30+ round magazines. Say, wait. Doesn't MD prohibit mags holding more than 10 rounds?
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I believe the law in Maryland prohibits the sale, purchase or manufacture of magazines over 10 rounds. It doesn’t actually prohibit the possession of them.
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I believe the law in Maryland prohibits the sale, purchase or manufacture of magazines over 10 rounds. It doesn’t actually prohibit the possession of them.
Now that is interesting. If true, you can go out of state and bring in whatever you want. Then...you can gift it to whoever you want I suppose?
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Now that is interesting. If true, you can go out of state and bring in whatever you want. Then...you can gift it to whoever you want I suppose?
I guess the transfer would have to be done out of state as well.
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You are so right. There appears to no law against possession or against personal import. It is however illegal to "transfer" within state, and to advertise for sale. But again, evidently nothing wrong with personal export, then sell/transfer elsewhere.
So I guess competitors are okay in MD.
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Back to the IDPA Nationals. Registration closes Monday, 7/3. Right now they're only showing the staff registrations. I guess once they sort out the "points" then they'll post the final registration list. (I'm not in the pool. Maybe next year.)
Anyway, in Joyce Wilson's original letter it said here's the waiver you have to sign and we'll be on hand to help speed the process along. Nothing else. But if you look at Practiscore, it says PCC Division magazine capacity is topped at 15. (Normally 30.) OH. Wonder how many PCC shooters are aware? I don't see it on the web page or the FB page. They may have sent an email to registered competitors.
And what happened to their newly created PCC-10 division. I guess no National Championship for them this year.
Pity all the full sized gun competitors who haven't possessed their 17 round mags since 7/1/13. They'll need a different gun or they can risk perjury. WOnder what the statue of limitations is on that?
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Am watching the IDPA registration/squadding since the signup closed out Monday, 7/4.
IDPA uses a point system for who qualifies for Nationals. (I earned zero points since I didn't shoot anything above a Level 1, local, match). So now that signup is closed, they're working through the points, and I guess by division, to determine who actually goes. Initially they had the 55 staff/volunteers squadded. As of today They're up to 96 people assigned. They're coming out in dribbles. LIke one person is doing this when they get a chance.
It'll be interesting to see the final numbers for this year.
Since it'll be coming to Talladega next year, I need to shoot in some Level 2+ matches to get some points if I want to go.
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<snip>
Since it'll be coming to Talladega next year, I need to shoot in some Level 2+ matches to get some points if I want to go.
It would be good for someone on the board to get in there! I can't compete at that level but it looks like the only thing I'll be shooting is rat shot to move non-compliant cattle.
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Seems everyone's been invited now to IDPA Nationals.
The registration is holding steady at 353 this year as opposed to 425 shooting last year. That'll change as some people will drop out for various last minute reasons.
It appears that the PCC shooters don't want to play with 15 round mags as opposed to their normal 30. I would have expected the interest in PCC to have grown this year over last. Also there's down turn in SSP. I wonder if it's because many of their grips are too long for 15 round mags and the competitors don't want the hassle of finding special, compliant magazines if there are any?
Here's a comparison between last year's score sheet and the current registration.
2021 2022
Bug 12 14
CCP 41 43
CDP 55 42
CO 97 85
ESP 76 80
SSP 88 55
REV 23 16
PCC 30 18