The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: alfsauve on November 21, 2014, 04:04:34 PM
-
I haven't forgotten my "Get Home" and "Bug Out" thread. Have most of it assembled, just been terribly busy. One thing to decide on was a Bug Out gun.
Bug Out means your castle, your fort, your home is no longer suitable to sustain you and your family. You might have seconds (toranado) or days (hurricane) or in-between (riots), to respond. What to take? What to take?
There should be a gun in the Bug Out bag. Time and space permitting you can take your entire armory, but what do you keep in the bag that you can grab and go on a moments notice? As some of you know, one of my guidelines was simplicity. Trying to stock a bare number of calibers means I have given long hard consideration to 9mm carbines and to .357 lever rifles as those calibers are my choices for everyday carry and for my Get Home bags. But a rifle with a decent range would be nice in the Bug Out bag, but it needs to be compact. I have given long hard looks at Kel-Tec SU-16c (.223) and their Sub 2000 (9mm). Especially the S2000 as it folds up to only 16" and wouldn't require stocking another caliber. But having a true rifle caliber would be a positive. A desirable thing. The AR platform comes apart easily enough for carry, but I just didn't like any of the upper configurations. I didn't feel comfortable striking out trying to build my own upper. And I definitely have looked down on the AR pistol. BUT THEN... that's a thing of the past.
I'm at a local gun show and a couple of real nice, good old boys from TN had a bunch of somewhat uniquely configured AR uppers. Not that you couldn't build them yourself, but they had them ready to rock and roll. One in particular jumped out and said, "Take me home." (If you haven't read the book Blink from Gladwell, you should. This was one of those "blink" moments. I knew it was the right choice as soon as I saw it.)
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-R5HnzZP/0/XL/IMG_0376-XL.jpg)
It's the cutest 12" upper with a full length, very light weight fore end. My hand just couldn't put it down. Came with BCG and CH. Love it. Went around the house on Saturday just carrying the upper with me.
I couldn't wait so I went to the local parts dealer Thursday and got a new "other" lower made by Spikes. Don't think I was home 5 minutes before I had it assembled.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-mvWpfJC/0/XL/IMG_0378-XL.jpg)
This will fit into a 24" carrying case with room to spare and will be perfect for a Bug Out bag. The fore end came with three, short Picatinny rails that can be attached for accessories. Trying to keep a slim storage profile, so don't think I'll use those. Might put a red-dot on a 45degree mount, just cause I have both in stock. I will order a pair of quick takedown pins as well as an emergency repair kit to go.
Here's the whole thing.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-McQZ5tR/0/XL/IMG_0381-XL.jpg)
Went to the range today and put 40 rounds through it. Even without a stock, it shoots great and was fun. Did it all standing. When I get a chance at a 100yd range I'll sight it in more carefully. I will be picking up the Sig Arm Brace, just to have, before they become... uh, rare. (Yes, I'm aware of the difference between a pistol and an SBR.)
Here's a question though. To create an even slimmer storage profile, I'm thinking of making a "pistol" grip that has less of an extension to it. Sort of a "rifle grip". I don't think having a "pistol" grip is a requirement for a "pistol", is it? I've been trying to imagine whether this is even workable, shootable, but having an extra grip and The Michael Bane deluxe Dremel tool set, I'm going to try, you betcha.
-
You should have to get a permit to use a dremel on a firearm. Seen too many people use them on firearms and then they have to call a gunsmith to fix it. Do not do it. (Sarcasm)
Every time I get and idea about using a dremel on one of my firearms I talk to the local master gunsmith. He always says use your hands and take small amounts off, you can always take more off but if the dremel gets away from you. Good luck putting some back on. Oh yea sweet purchase. Been looking at a Ruger Super Redhawk one of my bug out hammers.
-
Here's mine 8.5" bbl + the claymore brake...turns out it's exactly the same length as my tennis racquets :o
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff372/StuartCowley/P1010599_zps2b032e97.jpg)
-
if you completely remove the grip, you will need to thread the detent spring hole for the thumb safety, and plug with a set screw, but that is not much of a problem... if you want to forego the weight of the SigBrace... one of the KAK tubes and a 1 1/16" rubber end cap puts my nose to charging handle... there are letters from ATF technical division on file, allowing the use of the end cap
(http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/LesSnyder/001_zps141af3b8.jpg) (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/LesSnyder/media/001_zps141af3b8.jpg.html)
-
Decades ago the air force made an ar15 survival rifle prototype and to get less height to it they cut the pistol grip down. They cut off about half of it which I think is too short to handle effectively. If you can get all your fingers on except your pinkie that would be a different story. It might be enough of a difference to make it fit in a particular case that it won't quite fit.
-
Bulldog: I have extra grips, the cheap ones, so if I ruin one, not a problem.
Bic: Very nice. I've been eyeing the new soft side guitar cases.
Les: I was going to start with an existing grip and cut it back, so the safety detent spring isn't a problem.
Jumbofrank: I'm not positive what I want, just don't want it to stick down as much. Maybe fill in the area behind the trigger back to the sling ring.
SO: Nobody is going to ding me on putting the MUBS sights on backwards? I kind of like them folding forward, and for the front sight it doesn't matter. But the rear peep is better viewsed from the flat side, plus I can move it 1" closer to the rear.
-
Bic, Double check the legality of the Sig Brace !!!
http://gunssavelives.net/gun-industry/breaking-recent-atf-letter-on-sig-brace-calls-into-question-legality-of-shoulder-firing/
A new letter issued by the ATF to a custom shotgun shop could signal a change in the way the SIG Brace is being treated by the ATF.
According to the letter, addressed to Black Aces Tactical, a custom shotgun shop, it appears to call into question the act of shouldering a firearm equipped with the brace.
.....................................More at link.............................................
-
Check out this article about the sig brace. If you read the ATF letter page 3 in the image as well as the article it appears to only refer to the specific sample that was submitted in its form. Obviously that form could be reproduced by anyone. The way I'm reading this, the specific form of a pistol version of a shotgun becomes a different beast with the addition of the forward pistol grip. When it is no longer a pistol, the legality of the pistol brace comes into play. To me it seems the "submitted sample" is the key at Issue. I am not a lawyer so YMMV.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/11/robert-farago/atf-letter-is-not-the-end-of-the-sig-brace/ (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/11/robert-farago/atf-letter-is-not-the-end-of-the-sig-brace/)
-
Yeah, I read about all that stuff a few days ago. It would be interesting to know how many of those things that Sig has sold would it not?
-
The VZ58 with folding stock is a very small package.
-
Alf, that is one of those sort of guns that can only be referred to as "cute."
And I realize this is mainly for emergency use, but a couple of thoughts:
You lose a little velocity with the short barrel, but probably not enough to matter downrange. But
it will also, even moreso than a regular length barrel, is going to make a noise like the Crack of Doom.
And even with milspec ammo, you should expect significant muzzle flash, which is Not A Good Thing
during serious social engagements.
Not that this would stop me from using it, just be aware.
Grizzle Bear
-
Thank you, G Bear. Yes, it's cute. I never thought much about AR pistols, but I just love this upper with the full length fore end. And yes, it's for the Bug Out bag. Given that it uses, 5.56 ammo, AR mags and there's tons of spare parts to be had, easily repaired, I was swayed in favor of a proprietary platform for this use.
I didn't think the flash and retort were that bad when I fired it.
I happen to think that lots of spitzen, sparken and loudenboomen, isn't necessarily a bad thing when facing adversaries. Even at longer distances, they got to be questioning the wisdom of getting trying to get closer.
-
as Mr. Bear commented... a linear comp like a Levang or a Troy makes a great addition... you can almost (almost) shoot one without ear plugs in an emergency... I do, however, already have hearing loss in the 4000 Hz range
(http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/LesSnyder/002_zps8b44bd55.jpg) (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/LesSnyder/media/002_zps8b44bd55.jpg.html)
-
I have a family member who loves to get Tax Stamps to make SBRs out of ARs and AKs. The muzzle blast you feel sitting at the bench next to him is unpleasant at best! In any low light condition it could be blinding short term and in an inclosed area deafening without hearing protection.
Currently I am hoping to find a Sub2000 in ,40 that takes S&W mags at a fair price, one that takes Glock mags would be easier to find but I'm not a Glock guy.
-
...but I'm not a Glock guy.
Mort, it takes a BIG MAN to so freely admit his mental and emotional shortcomings.
I think there are groups that can help you overcome this obvious case of self-loathing and get you back on the path to being an intelligent gun owner.
It may not be easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is. Still, the rewards are worth it when you can finally recognize Glock is quite possibly the finest commercially available handgun.
Just remember the mantra: Plastic is Fantastic.
Crusader Rabbit
-
Thanks Rabbit, I understand others don't share my opinion and I am OK with that. Glocks don't have round bores and hate cast bullets which I shoot a lot of and look like the glue guns they sell at Hobby Lobby. Other than that I favor metal frames even though I carry a verity of plastic pocket guns, one or two at a time concealed.
-
Thank you, G Bear. Yes, it's cute. I never thought much about AR pistols, but I just love this upper with the full length fore end. And yes, it's for the Bug Out bag. Given that it uses, 5.56 ammo, AR mags and there's tons of spare parts to be had, easily repaired, I was swayed in favor of a proprietary platform for this use.
I didn't think the flash and retort were that bad when I fired it.
I happen to think that lots of spitzen, sparken and loudenboomen, isn't necessarily a bad thing when facing adversaries. Even at longer distances, they got to be questioning the wisdom of getting trying to get closer.
Think "Flash/Bang grenade ;D
-
I have a family member who loves to get Tax Stamps to make SBRs out of ARs and AKs. The muzzle blast you feel sitting at the bench next to him is unpleasant at best! In any low light condition it could be blinding short term and in an inclosed area deafening without hearing protection.
Currently I am hoping to find a Sub2000 in ,40 that takes S&W mags at a fair price, one that takes Glock mags would be easier to find but I'm not a Glock guy.
Pretty good guns.
I kinda wish I had kept my Sub2000 (it was the .40 using Glock 22 mags), but I had the chance to sell it for more than I paid for it and apply the money toward an AR.
They are good bag guns, for what a pistol-caliber carbine is worth. Inside 100 yards, it was dead on with the factory peep sight, and in the last year or so, there are plenty of add-on items like picatinny fore-ends that can be had.
-
Currently I am hoping to find a Sub2000 in ,40 that takes S&W mags at a fair price, one that takes Glock mags would be easier to find but I'm not a Glock guy.
I have two Glocks only so that I can compete in GSSF. My Production semi-auto is a M&P, and I love to shoot revolver for most everything else. However, for overall availability, I would think the Glock mags are ubiquitous. Getting a S2000 with Glock mags isn't the same as actually buying a Glock. It's just taking advantage of the availability and variety of the mags.
Don't the S&W 4006 mags only fit the 4xxx models? If that's what you own/carry then great. I don't think they interchangeable with the M&P or Sigma series. Are they available in capacities bigger than 11 rounds?
Just things to think about.
I debated over this a long time trying to balance the magazine issue, with the ammo issue, with the size and cost issue. The beauty of the AR pistol finally hit me with this upper. The buffer tube does work though (ATTN: BATFE. I'd never, ever actually do this) as a very short stock. If I were going with the pistol caliber then the S2000 - Glock would be what I'd get. Even if I didn't own Glocks.
-
I have a S&W 4006 Tactical and have used the mags in my 9mm Keltec P=11, it functions flawlessly with the smaller round and holds 15 or 16 of them.
-
I think you're on the right track, Alf. The SIG brace has completely re-defined what we think of as a small, lightweight rifle/carbine, good for you to grab one while you can.
Speaking of SIG, I've tac-d out my SU-16 with some of their tactical gear, namely a StopLite laser/ight combo and one of their a 3x scopes. It's a bit more stuff than just the Vortex Strikefire I had on it before, but a laser and light gives me a lot more options than what I had before.
(http://www.kevincreighton.com/su-16-stuff.jpg)
-
Wow, Kevin. Not exactly small and compact anymore. I've cut my pistol grip off to make it take up less heigth. Now I'm looking at carrying cases. I think maybe a racquetball racquet cover. A tennis cover might be too big ;) Found this at Galati designed for a takedown rifle (23"x9"). Trying to be as un-tactical cool as possible.
(http://www.galatiinternational.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/GLPP23X9.jpg)
-
Still fits in the Galati case I bought for it before I added the light, laser aquarium bubbler and tactical coffeemaker onto it, though.
(Memo to self: See if I can return the coffeemaker and get one in FDE instead....).
I keep it in the trunk, unloaded, with 3 full mags in the pouches on the case. It'll need to be retrieved from the trunk before use, which implies there will be time to load it as well.
-
Speaking of compact pistol grips...
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ab-arms-p-grip-review/
No Dremel required!
-
Oh, oh. And it's only $19.95. https://www.abarms.com/A_B_Arms_SBR_P_Grip_p/abasbrp.htm (https://www.abarms.com/A_B_Arms_SBR_P_Grip_p/abasbrp.htm)
No Dremel required!
Dremel? Dremel? Try a 10" DeWalt compound saw. Neat, straight cut. Only a little sanding required. (Picture of my stubby pistol grip when I get the quick release pins.)
I might consider the A*B when I settle on a carrying case, if there's room.
-
Found it. The perfect undercover case.
I've looked at yoga mat carrying cases, soft guitar cases, you name it but I found the perfect one for my gun.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31kXA-8%2BlJL.01_SL500_.jpg)
http://digitalphotoscenenow.com/vidpro-tc-22-padded-tripod-bag-carries-22-inch-long-tripods/ (http://digitalphotoscenenow.com/vidpro-tc-22-padded-tripod-bag-carries-22-inch-long-tripods/)
This bag is 22"x4.5"x4.5". My upper is 20" end-to-end. The lower with my cutoff grip is going to bulge just a tad at 4.8" wide. I intend to get a cheap 1/4" yoga mat and cut it down as padding. The also make longer ones in 27" and in 35".
Now the tool. Since this is a bug out situation a multi-tool is called for. Here's the one my wife is getting me for Christmas. (She just doesn't know it yet.) I don't normally splurge on a tool like this, but I like the combination of spanner wrench, punch and hex driver.
(http://www.multitaskertools.com/img/large/multitasker-all.jpg)
http://www.multitaskertools.com/ (http://www.multitaskertools.com/)
-
I keep an AK under folder with a Glock19 in my bag. I was also contemplating whether or not to carry my M63 tanker.
-
[Do these projects ever end?]
Almost done. Here's is the picture of the bag, the cut off grip and the quick release takedown pins. Only thing left is to assemble an emergency repair/cleaning kit and get magazine pouches.
I must confess, I didn't use any of the bags I had talked about above. I found this little two-man tent at target that came in the bag you see. The tent is going in the bug out bag and has it's own nylon pouch. The bag is the perfect size. 20"x5"x5". The gun fits perfectly. A little cardboard stiffner along the bottom and ends and some 1/8" foam pieces for padding rounds it out. It's so handy I want to carry it everywhere. A "man purse" ;)
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-3z8JtzC/0/X2/IMG_0557-X2.jpg)
Since I only have 5" width to play with, I'm hoping to find double mag pouches that I can fold in half (one over the other), or a single width pouch that hold two mags on top each other. Pouches with their own little sling are important since if it becomes necessary to deploy this I want the ability to carry the mags easily without fumbling. Planning on 4 mags, maybe six. I have a nylon cased, AR field cleaning kit and will add a small bag of AR lower pins and springs. That along with the MultiTasker tool should pretty much round out this project.
And yes, the pistol grip is rather small. But I do not intend to fire this one handed and the additional lost grip for the 4th & 5th fingers isn't really missed that much when held properly with two hands. I might look, down the road, at the smaller one that Kevin suggested.
-
http://www.amazon.com/Gunslick-Police-Pro-Pak-AR-15-Pull-Thru/dp/B001F0IDGM/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1417621105&sr=8-18&keywords=gunslick+cleaning+kit
-
I ordered spare kits from Amazon.
Put the springs in an old pill bottle and take along.
Spare spring kit, $8 plus free shipping:
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Arms-Gear-Replacement-Complete/dp/B00J5VF22G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1417628503&sr=8-3&keywords=ar+spring+kit
Double parts kit:
http://www.amazon.com/Replacement-parts-AR-15-Sporting-Rifle/dp/B00KOAPJN4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417628503&sr=8-1&keywords=ar+spring+kit
http://www.amazon.com/5-56-Turned-Parts-Set-223/dp/B00IYSM69I/ref=pd_bxgy_misc_img_y
-
HEADS UP: If you want a Sig PSB pistol brace by itself and not with the buffer tube, et al, now is the time to get one.
Like, within the next 72 hours. Sig is changing some things, and when the news breaks, I expect people to snatch them up quickly.
-
I've thought about it and decided the pistol brace (faux, short stock) just isn't worth the weight and volume. My objective is to keep it very compact and light.
It's easy enough to make a stock for an AR if the situation warrants.
-
(On the other hand - referring to the Mosin-Nagant project)
The AR pistol project is great. Here's a 9 shot group. Only from 25yds and indoors, but the rifle was only supported by a wooden V notch on the bench in the front. I was till holding it in the rear with no sand-bags. I'm pleased. Will do a final picture after Christmas when I get my Multitasker tool and mag pouches to go with it. Maybe I'll go to a longer range, if I get the Mosin fixed too.
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-vcRm2kH/0/L/ARpistolTarget-L.jpg)
just under 1.5" spread.
-
Wow .
-
I have my days.
My first day on the rifle range in military was one of them. Too long a story to type, but basically I shot 5 shot first string about like that from 100yds. Rattled the Training Instructor. Of course the next 65 shots were nowhere near that good, but for a brief, shining moment...
On the other hand my groups with the 625 revolver (.45acp) Friday were pretty deplorable. You're not going to see any pictures of them.
-
It was much the same when I first qualified on the 1911 in 77. Scored 280 something on my first qual! Couldn't match that on my re-qual but I was close enuf for my medal.
-
A new letter issued by the ATF to a custom shotgun shop could signal a change in the way the SIG Brace is being treated by the ATF. According to the letter, addressed to Black Aces Tactical, a custom shotgun shop, it appears to call into question the act of shouldering a firearm equipped with the brace.
You just gotta' love the way the ATF thinks. Just how in the hell did they think people were going to use these things? If it looks like a duck....... It's much the same as these trigger devices that get around the whole full auto thing. If any of these things work as designed, as soon as they sell 20,000 of them, they right away start crying and want to rescind their, "Letter Of Approval". Just who the hell is running the show over there? They need to borrow Mr. MaGoo's glasses.
-
That ATF letter of approval can be replaced with a new letter changing the legal standing at any time. A friend had a Ingles Hi-Power with a slotted grip and a repo stock that was legal without any restrictions before a new letter made the combination a regulated item! Never take the strap off the Sig brace it could be looked at a stock at that point.
-
That ATF letter of approval can be replaced with a new letter changing the legal standing at any time. A friend had a Ingles Hi-Power with a slotted grip and a repo stock that was legal without any restrictions before a new letter made the combination a regulated item! Never take the strap off the Sig brace it could be looked at a stock at that point.
I'm not sure on this, but I THINK that if both are original pre 1898, such as the Mauser's with the wooden combination stock holster they are OK, but if either are new manufacture, or post 1898 they are regulated.
-
it appears to call into question the act of shouldering a firearm equipped with the brace.
What do they think if you're just shouldering a short buffer tube on a pistol? I find suppose I can could scrunch up with mine pretty good. See target above.
-
check out the length of the KAK buffer tube in my reply #3
-
Bic, Double check the legality of the Sig Brace !!!
http://gunssavelives.net/gun-industry/breaking-recent-atf-letter-on-sig-brace-calls-into-question-legality-of-shoulder-firing/
A new letter issued by the ATF to a custom shotgun shop could signal a change in the way the SIG Brace is being treated by the ATF.
According to the letter, addressed to Black Aces Tactical, a custom shotgun shop, it appears to call into question the act of shouldering a firearm equipped with the brace.
.....................................More at link.............................................
While we should remain alert, ATF issues opinions on specific items. Until they retract their letter on the SIG Brace and issue a new opinion the original opinion stands. Can they arrest you? Sure, but good luck getting a conviction when the ATF opinion that the item was legal no matter how you used it.
Let's face it, any time you modify a gas tube on an AR15 pistol so you can more easily fire it off the shoulder, you are pushing the envelope. You're getting very close to SBR territory. I have seen people advise the use of a cane tip on the end of the gas tube. IMHO, that's very risky. Other than making it easier to shoulder, what is the purpose of installing that item? ATF approved the SIG Brace because it is designed to enhance the use of the forearm as a pistol, not to be a shoulder stock. The fact that it can be used as such doesn't negate the purpose of the design.
Is it worth it just to save a $200.00 tax and a wait? If you get busted your lawyer's first hour will cost more than that! Personally, I'll just follow the law - and be thrilled I'm moving to a state that lets me own NFA items.
-
Since you brought it up, just HOW does the Sig brace work.
Does it serve as a counter weight ?
-
I was at the range yesterday. There was a guy there shooting a AR-15 pistol he had built with a Sig brace on it. He was using it like a shoulder stock. We got to talking and I looked at it. This thing is a shoulder stock, period. It's got some kind of strap on it, but I couldn't see how you could even get your arm through the small opening that is supposed to accommodate your wrist, (forearm). Perhaps if you were 8 years old it could be used as it is supposedly designed. There was no way I could do it. It would have been much too tight.... Almost like a tourniquet.
This is another one of those gimmick accessories that get around a already existing ATF law. My guess is these things will be banned in time. They do make an AR-15 pistol look cool as hell instead of having that big, foam covered tube sticking out the back. If I remember correctly, there was some kind of trigger that allowed full auto type firing of a semi auto that met the same fate. It was released for sale to the public with an, "ATF Letter Of Approval", only to be rescinded by the ATF a short time later. The people who bought them took the gas pipe on them. If you're in possession of one today on a gun and get caught, it's Crowbar Hilton time.
-
http://ar-15store.com/pgroup_descrip/290/7144/?return=%3ftpl%3Dindex%26category_id%3D290%26%26%26page%3D2%26nothumbs%3D%26filter_1%3D%26filter_2%3D%26filter_3%3D%26filter_4%3D
-
That's it.
-
Buffer tube.....gas tube is at the front end.
;)
-
some archived ATF letters on AR15.com...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/525036_Request___Scans_of_any_letters_from_the_BATFE__that_pertain_to_AR_pistols.html
-
There is a youtube video of Jerry Miculek wearing an AR pistol on each forearm using the Sig brace shooting at multiple targets. Anyone can use the brace as intended or any way approved by ATF.
-
Finished.
Here's the completed kit.
12" AR with full length free-float tube. Extended take down pins. Pop-up sights. Four 20 round magazines. Spare parts kit. Cleaning Kit. Multitasker multi-tool. Sling. Carry bag, 20" x 5" x 5" What more could you want to grab and go? Short term or long term?
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-V6c25hL/0/XL/IMG_0373%20%282%29001-XL.jpg)
(http://sauve.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-QLVp3qP/0/XL/IMG_0377002-XL.jpg)
-
That rig really came out quite nicely, Alf.
-
Hey Peg, did you ever think about stashing something like that in your "tin" leg ?
-
Hey Peg, did you ever think about stashing something like that in your "tin" leg ?
No room,,,, BUT, I have thought of mounting a kydex holster for a back-up gun...... ;D
Mine is a below knee unit, but it would still mount the same as below.
-
Put an LCP in there no one would ever know.
-
Put an LCP in there no one would ever know.
Yep.
My size and normal style of dress will allow me (if I really want to push the envelope, so to speak) the ability to comfortably conceal several handguns.
Just for giggles one day I concealed a 1911 on my strong-side hip, a 1911 IWB in a crossdraw, a .38 snub in my right front pocket, Colt .380 in my left front pocket, Glock 27 in an ankle holster, Baby Browning .25 in a right shirt pocket, and a NAA .22 in the left shirt pocket.
Of course it was just to say I could, with no spare ammo....... but there were seven people in our house, and I went about my normal interaction with them for over an hour before asking if they could guess how many I had on me. Nobody came close to guessing correctly.
All I need is Alf's rig above, in a backpack to blend in, and I'd be set.
;D ;D
-
Kind of like this ?
-
Hey Peg!
Looks to me like you could put a Mossberg Cruiser in there! Just not sure how you would draw it....
GB