The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: trafficguy on July 08, 2009, 07:35:34 PM
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I've noticed opinions are free around here (good case of supply and demand*S*) and I am looking for a few. I want a CCW pistol, and am looking at the Kahr PM40 and the Sig 239. Anyone care to weigh in? Also, if there are any Sig fans... does the 239 have a manual safety? Can't seem to find one of these in the local shops...
Thanks ... and Happy belated 4th to all of you
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I'm not familiar with the Kahr but the P239 has no external safety. It is DA/SA with a decocker and a few models are DAK type. I find them a little top heavy and they are not as small as one might think. Pretty good heft for a small pistol and like all Sig pistols, they are accurate.
Good luck, research on the new toys is most enjoyable.
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Kahr is a second rate brand, owned by the son of Reverend Moon of the Unification Church (Moonies ) Sig is a top of the line brand.
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I vote for SIG
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One of the guys at my local range has a PM40 and swears by it. He even let me shoot it and also provided the ammo, as I was shooting .357 and 9mm that day.
Pretty cool of him, but......I personally didn't care for the PM40. It was too small, too light, felt cheap and just didn't feel right in general. The recoil was surprising manageable for such a small/light pistol. I did not find the PM40 to be very accurate past 7 to 10 yds.
Just my thoughts, the range professional loves his Kahr.
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Kahr are awfully proud in retail cost, but make a good pistol.
Sigs are Sigs, and are also one of the best pistols made.
FWIW,
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_gt1104.html
I vote for SIG
Kahr is a second rate brand, owned by the son of Reverend Moon of the Unification Church (Moonies ) Sig is a top of the line brand.
Get what suits you, determine the application, carry every day, target, safe queen, etc,..
Welcome to DRTV. Broad spectrum of CCW pistols out there in .40, have you tried these two, or others?
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And which do you want to rot in the evidence locker get a glock 26-27
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What fits best in your hand, which brings the sights to bear more readily?
That said, Sig.
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I carry Sig P239 .40 S&W off duty equipped with Crimson Trace Grips.
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http://www.kahr.com/KA-1A.html
"Kahr's corporate headquarters are located in Blauvelt, New York. Production and assembly operations are located in Worcester, Massachusetts, in the region commonly known as "Gun Valley""
"Kahr's parent company, established in 1981, has been a leading supplier of computer numerical control (CNC) machine tools and applications engineering. In 1986, the company expanded by forming a manufacturing division which provides quality contract machining, manufacturing and assembly services for diverse industries, including aerospace, automotive, electronics, medical equipment, scientific instrumentation and telecommunications. This division offers in-house engineering and precision tooling services, as well as, secondary operations that complement the machining and manufacturing capabilities."
Owned by the Unification Church? Don't see that.
American made. Buy Kahr.
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I'm a big Sig fan. The Texas State Police replaced their Sig P232's, a PPK .380, with P239's in 9mm for their standard concealable for Texas Rangers, Troopers, and other detectives. So that's a big endorsement. And there's no manual safety, almost no Sig has one, but it does have a SA/DA trigger, decocker, and trigger/hammer disconnect, along with Sig reliability. The only down side is that most Sig's weigh ten thousand pounds, but I've not handled your alternative. If you have the money get the P239, I've never met anyone that regretted getting a Sig.
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I love Sigs I have a P229 in .40, but the Kahr would probably be better sized for CCW. Though you might also check KelTec if your considering Kahr I think they are just as good as the Kahr but have a better pricetag! ;)
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You folks are too good to me! Thanks for all the good advice. I finally found a Sig at a shop. Love the look and feel of that gun. Maybe not a good CCW due to weight. Also, handled a S&W M&P 40c. I liked the weight of that, but hard to find many fans of that particular line or firearms. Looks like its back to the dawing board on my search.
Thanks again to all that weighed in!
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I'd say Sig., can I ask. Why a .40?
Kinda like shopping for a fast car, seeing a Camaro for the same price as a Vette (.45ACP) and wanting the camaro. Just asking.
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You folks are too good to me! Thanks for all the good advice. I finally found a Sig at a shop. Love the look and feel of that gun. Maybe not a good CCW due to weight. Also, handled a S&W M&P 40c. I liked the weight of that, but hard to find many fans of that particular line or firearms. Looks like its back to the dawing board on my search.
Thanks again to all that weighed in!
I am one of the biggest M+P fans around. (still fighting the kool-aid) I have posted about my full size .40 M+P many times. It eats it all, it shoots them all, and if my eyes were better, it would hit them all.
Not 1 jam, fail to feed or fire, and actually got better after a few boxes. Owned now for over a year and a half. S&W got the M+P right.
It is not finicky, has the ambi features for those who shoot lefty, and is a fine choice for consideration.
The .40c is the same action on a compact frame. My proud .02 cents.
I don't work for S&W, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express, and trust my M+P.
I'd say Sig., can I ask. Why a .40?
Kinda like shopping for a fast car, seeing a Camaro for the same price as a Vette (.45ACP) and wanting the camaro. Just asking.
I had a 72 Camaro back in the day that would "smoke" 80's gen vette's,and Stang's, than they had to make the ZR-1 to keep up... ::),
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You folks are too good to me! Thanks for all the good advice. I finally found a Sig at a shop. Love the look and feel of that gun. Maybe not a good CCW due to weight. Also, handled a S&W M&P 40c. I liked the weight of that, but hard to find many fans of that particular line or firearms. Looks like its back to the dawing board on my search.
Thanks again to all that weighed in!
I am one of the biggest M+P fans around. (still fighting the kool-aid) I have posted about my full size .40 M+P many times. It eats it all, it shoots them all, and if my eyes were better, it would hit them all.
I have to agree with the M&P line of pistols as a good option. I have 3 of them - .45, 9, and 9c. while the triggers are a bit rough out of the box they are nice to handle and fit the hand like a glove! I think the 9c (12 round mag), 40c (10 round mag) makes a great CCW package! 8) Though the .40 is a better caliber than the 9mm ;) I largely went with the 9c for the better ammo cost and I like the extra ammo capacity in the mags + it would pissoff the the Brady folks! ;D ::) ;D I carry the 9c with the 12 rds. in the gun and a spare 17rd full size mag in my pocket using a Nemis mag Holster.
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I am a fan of Sigs but they are bulky for CCW. I am also a fan of the M&P I have, but it's a duty size weapon.
I have never fired one, but several ex LEOs in my area carry the Kahr 45s. They are VERY compact, and as these guys tell it, VERY well made. I've handled one and it seems like a really great CCW 45- but again, never fired one.
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I have had a Kahr and still have the Sig 239 but in 9mm.
I would recommend the Kahr if you have small hands. I sold it to a friend who wanted a pistol for his wife.
The Kahr had a much longer trigger pull and reset than the Sig and that was a problem for me.
The Sig has taken a real work out, 20,000 + rounds with out a hiccup. I would vote Sig.
The truth be known I carry a G26 more now than the 239.
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+1 on the Glock 26
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I have a Kahr P9 and my wife has the little bit shorter PM9. It meets my needs for a CCW very well. Small, compact and fits easily in my front pants pocket, even in summer shorts and at 5'10", 180 lbs., I don't have the bulk to hide something much bigger in the souths humid heat in summer. To me, especially someone who is approaching grumpy old, lustful ;D man status with myopic vision, it is a good point and shoot weapon.
I'm not law enforcement, though worked 7 years as a paramedic so I'm cognizant of what the underbelly of society is like and where a weapons use as a civilian is most likely to occur. In my CCW training (by a law officer), I was told 95% of all situations where a civilian needs a weapon is at a range of 12 feet or less. If it is over this range, you probably have other options. I can put all rounds easily in a dinner plate at this range without spending a lot of time.
It is a shame that how individualistic needs are with firearms, there is not a way to test handguns before buying.
This is a pretty decent evaluation http://knight67.blogspot.com/2008/04/gun-review-kahr-pm40.html
The pictures are my P9 with pocket holster. The cut angle on the side catches on a pocket corner allowing you to get the gun out and leave the holster in your pocket. The pen and 9mm round are for scale.
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if your looking for a compact .40 with good recoil handling and very well priced id go a glock 27 or possibly a walther pps.. the pps is a bit more money than the glock but reliable enough. you might take a look at the compact 1911 styles in either .45 or .40 both very well built and reliable enough. if you want a cheeper gun might look at the taurus 24/7 pistols. reliable enough imo... gone bang for me every time, the taurus is the least expensive of the previous mentioned however alot of people dont trust them... i trust mine...
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Another vote here for M&P .40c. That is my CC piece. I will tell you that the Walther PPS feels like crap in my hand.. your hands may differ greatly from mine so try holdin one first. Glock is good to, if your hand is comfortable in the grip, which mine is not. Big fan of the XD sub compact in .40 as well.
If you can handle the weight, I say Sig is a freakin awesome gun, doesnt matter which model.
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Boy, I like that Sig 239. Feels great.... fits me well, and founf it for $650 new! But, I want a CCW instrument....so, i went with the Kahr. I agree with all of you that said Sig. But, took a chance on the Kahr.
Oh, just wanted to add....had a '67 Camaro myself!
Thanks all! Heading to the farm Saturday to shoot. I'll post a review of the PM40 after that.
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Bring pictures!!! ;D
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Look forward to hearing and seeing the results of your purchase.
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Range report:
Well, I made it out to the farm Saturday to test out my new PM40. As many of you know, I really wanted that 239, but the goal of this purchase was a concealed carry gun. I have to admit, as a die hard 1911 fan, i was a little taken-aback by the plastic frame and short handle. But, with a $6 magazine extension, I really liked the feel of my little pocket gun.
Trigger pull was very pleasing for a DA. Not let of at all. Trigger pull is the same all the way through.
I was shocked at how well the little gun performed. Very little recoil, easy to keep on target, and felt good to shoot. We had 1 round fail to load, but turns out the mag wasnt properly seated. Also, had 1 round jam somewhere in the 1st 100 shots. Flawless operation after that.
While a little on the expensive side, I am pleased with what I got!
So, there you have it. One opinion, worth just about what you paid for it! But, everything considered, I think I made a decent selection for a piece of personal protection.
Now, off to research the next purchase!!!!
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Porn?
Target?
Gun?
Come on newbies, it ain't that hard. You talk about a new gun, there must be porn.
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Porn?
Target?
Gun?
Come on newbies, it ain't that hard. You talk about a new gun, there must be porn.
go to photobucket.com it's a free sign up, nonintrusive upload and POST PICS!!!
or any other method to share the Kahr with the rest of us.....We like to see it all... ;)
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go to photobucket.com it's a free sign up, nonintrusive upload and POST PICS!!!
or any other method to share the Kahr with the rest of us.....We like to see it all... ;)
Ditto. Porn please.
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That's one of the many things wrong with this country..... everyone has a camera with them *L*. Seroisly though, I'll get a cople of shots of my new piece for you folks......
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That's one of the many things wrong with this country..... everyone has a camera with them *L*. Seroisly though, I'll get a cople of shots of my new piece for you folks......
That's all we ask. ;D
That, and spelling "seriously" correctly. >:(
oh, bad me, harassing the newbies, I'm off to the corner.
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My dad has the sig239 and it shoots great. I dont care much for Kahr arms, carry an EMP or G26.