The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on February 05, 2013, 06:14:31 PM
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http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2013/01/update-status-of-gun-industry.html
UPDATE: Status of Gun Industry
Interesting status report from Valley Guns in West Virginia:
Status of gun industry
Attention F.B. fans: to follow will be several IMPORTANT Info updates about the status of the gun industry currently, followed by an INVENTORY UPDATE: We traveled to Texas for Industry meetings concerning the shortages, here's what we were told.
Smith & Wesson-is running at Full capacity making 300+ guns/day-mainly M&P pistols. They are unable to produce any more guns to help with the shortages.
RUGER: Plans to increase from 75% to 100% in the next 90 days.
FNH: Moving from 50% production to 75% by Feb 1st and 100% by March 1. Remington-Maxed out!
Armalite: Maxed out.
DPMS: Can't get enough parts to produce any more product.
COLT: Production runs increasing weekly...bottle necked by Bolt carrier's.
LWRC: Making only black guns, running at full capacity...can't get enough gun quality steel to make barrels.
Springfield Armory: Only company who can meet demand but are running 30-45 days behind.
AMMO: Every caliber is now Allocated! We are looking at a nation wide shortage of all calibers over the next 9 months. All plants are producing as much ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rounds produced weekly. Most is military followed by L.E. and civilians are third in line.
MAGPUL is behind 1 MILLION mags, do not expect any large quantities of magpul anytime soon.
RELOADERS... ALL Remington, Winchester, CCI & Federal primers are going to ammo FIRST. There are no extra's for reloading purposes... it could be 6-9 months before things get caught up. Sorry for the bleak news, but now we know what to expect in the coming months. Stay tuned, we'll keep you posted...
Related commentary from Bob Owens:
They didn’t know when they’d be getting anything back in stock, from magazines to rifles to pistols. Manufacturers were running full-bore, but couldn’t come close to keeping up with market demand. It wasn’t just the AR-15s, the AK-pattern rifles, the M1As, and the FALs that were sold out. It really hit me when I realized that the World War-era M1 Garands, M1 carbines, and Enfield .303s were gone, along with every last shell. Ubiquitous Mosin-Nagants—of which every gun store always seems to have 10-20—were gone. So was their ammo. Only a dust free space marked their passing. I’ve never seen anything like it.
Every weapon of military utility designed within the past 100+ years was gone. This isn’t a society stocking up on certain guns because they fear they may be banned. This is a society preparing for war.
Barack Obama, Dianne Feinstein and the rest of the Statists have done more to promote gun ownership than the NRA ever did. Well done, Democrats!
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Thanks for the update. 8)
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Just for giggles, I was looking on Sportsman's Guide at 5.56/.223 ammo....... all was back-ordered and the 'expected' dates ranged from late March to October.
I have enough to ride out the shortage like in 08/09 if I restrict shooting to 'staying proficient' and limit the plinking.
I wish I had stocked more primers and powder.
I wish I could get BillT to adopt me. ;D
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Wow! Been surfing the net for any rimfire ammo I can find...nothing! Also, looking for .243 for my new toy. Man who would've thought there would be a shortage of .243?
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Mailman (yes, a man) stopped by Friday to drop off a package. Asked when I'd be getting more bullets. Told him they're scarce right now, that's why I broke his back in December stocking up. He asked if the SHTF would he be welcome at my house. I told him to bring something to the table and we'd talk.
Mainly, it's primers. I'm on the "alert" list for several suppliers.
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Went to a local gs Sat. and it seems the horders have brought stuff out to sell, finally. Never seen so many Pmags and other AR mags in one place in my life.....dozens if not hundreds at $20 and up! New AR's and AK's up the wazoo....at half inflated prices. Rifle ammo at not too bad to way bad prices. Pistol ammo at reasonable prices. What pistol mags were there were double normal. Pistol and shotgun prices remain about the same and are good sellers.
Richard
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http://www.luckygunner.com/
Been having limited success with these guys. They are charging a premium, but nothing like the gouging that other places are.
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I paid .35 per round ($7.00 per box) for this ammo four months ago and it's almost a buck a round now.
http://www.luckygunner.com/223-rem-55-gr-fmj-ae223j-federal-500-rounds
I won't do it.
I don't have the large stockpiles that some do (but I have 'enough'), but I ain't paying nearly a $1000 per case until the time comes that it is the ONLY option to get ammo. I just pray that these prices do not become "standard" instead of just profiteering due to limited supply.
I really hope that a year from now they are choking on ammo.....we can hope can't we? >:(
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Hi;
Everyone just has to settle down and not panic. When the AWB gets shot down and Barry has his hissy fit, the next few months will start to show stock on the shelves and other inventory building. Later on there will be buyers remorse and we will start to see "used" firearms sitting in/on the shelves for a few months until the owners just to decide and take a loss and sell it for what we consider "normal" prices.
For those who are short on items - you'll just have to wait. Better yet, just stash some money from now - up to 10 months from now and you will get what you want at better prices and you can set aside items for the next panic.
It's like there is no reason to go to the range and shoot up all that you have and then start crying because you cant replenish your items. This was seen coming down the road long before it happened. If you didnt stock up pre-panic -- then its your fault.
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Hi;
Everyone just has to settle down and not panic. When the AWB gets shot down and Barry has his hissy fit, the next few months will start to show stock on the shelves and other inventory building. Later on there will be buyers remorse and we will start to see "used" firearms sitting in/on the shelves for a few months until the owners just to decide and take a loss and sell it for what we consider "normal" prices.
For those who are short on items - you'll just have to wait. Better yet, just stash some money from now - up to 10 months from now and you will get what you want at better prices and you can set aside items for the next panic.
It's like there is no reason to go to the range and shoot up all that you have and then start crying because you cant replenish your items. This was seen coming down the road long before it happened. If you didnt stock up pre-panic -- then its your fault.
Too late for that...... it's already happened.
But I agree (and hope you are right about the 10 months) on the rest of it. ;)
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I paid .35 per round ($7.00 per box) for this ammo four months ago and it's almost a buck a round now.
http://www.luckygunner.com/223-rem-55-gr-fmj-ae223j-federal-500-rounds
Almost a buck a round? That's just grotesque. I picked up my 3-box max of that exact stuff at my local Wally World the other day for $11/box and I thought that was outrageous.
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This shortage seems worse than the last time. My dad and I run the JR rifle program at our local sportsman's club and we teach kids to shoot smallbore 4 position rifle. Every place around us is even completely sold out of .22lr! Not even the crappy Remington Thunderbolt at this point.
The anti's are least temporarily accomplishing one of their goals and that is to make it difficult to buy ammo. I am just concerned that some of the new kids that come along will get discouraged when they can't buy a box of cheap ammo at the local store that they might get discouraged.
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Well, I just got out of a bidding war for 5000 rounds of Federal .22LR - I'm not going to pay $700+ for something that used to list for about $280. >:(
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Local gun shops are all but out of ammo, and none in the calibers I'd like. WallyWorls still has 20 gauge birdshot rounds and not much more.
Went to www.ammoengine.com (good price checking resource) to find .40S&W going for between $.90 and $1.08 per round. .357 mag was about a buck a round.
Fortunately, I am fairly well stocked, but I'd like something cheap to take to the range. My range time has suffered due to the shortage. And I don't want to dip into my supply until I am certain I can re-supply. (And I hope re-supply will come from local merchants and not from having to engage foreign military in blue trucks.)
Local professional re-loader (he provides local PDs with practice ammo) has been nearly put out of business. He can still get used brass from the PD ranges, but primers are unavailable. He'll have to close up shop soon as he can't even make rent.
Crusader Rabbit
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While I hate to see the outrageous markup on guns and ammo some stores will go out of business because they can't restock.
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Been focusing on shoring up my shotgun ammo. Admittedly the poor thing gets neglected when it comes to ammo. However after doing a complete rebuild (with upgrades) to my trusty 870, I am spending much more time with it. And kicking myself for not sooner realizing the versatility of this little (black) sweetheart.
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Natchez had 500 rounds .223 for around $350 yesterday.
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"DPMS: Can't get enough parts to produce any more product.
COLT: Production runs increasing weekly...bottle necked by Bolt carrier's."
I took something else away from this. I've always said most all of these AR-15 manufacturers buy most all of their parts from outside vendors. Who there are just a few of who produce for the entire industry. This more or less confirms it. I wonder if Colt and DPMS get their bolts and bolt carriers from the same vendor? Suddenly the wrench goes in the gears trying to determine which one is actually "better"?
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Back to the topic at hand. I just got an E-Mail yesterday from my local dealer who said he had Remington R-1 Stainless 1911's in stock for $878.00. I just bought one from him a few months back, (pre Sandy Hook), and paid $617.00. This is a $261.00 increase on a stock 7 round capacity pistol. Makes me think there may indeed be some truth to what they said in the article........
"This isn’t a society stocking up on certain guns because they fear they may be banned. This is a society preparing for war!"
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"This isn’t a society stocking up on certain guns because they fear they may be banned. This is a society preparing for war!"
Yep!
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Stop at the LGS today, 2 AR's $1800, and $2K, SKS $750 .
On the other hand, 4 new S&W M&P 22's $550 each and new Glocks at $650.
Didn't ask about ammo as this place never carries much.
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A couple observations.
Local hardware/gunstore manager usually goes to SHOT show and places orders for to be filled throughout the year. He was unable to attend this year. He has been communicating with a number of his suppliers since SHOT and they told him he may just plain be out of luck. A sales rep called him a few days ago and offered him 5 boxes of .223. He said great, 5000 rounds, to which the rep replied, no 5 boxes of 20, not 5 cases.
A friend picked up a 25 round box of 9 mm defensive ammo for $32 and 500 rounds CCI .22 for $45 at a broad spectrum outdoor sporting goods store. They told him 10% - 20% increase in any fishing tackle that uses lead, brass, copper or nickle in it do to shortages of material.
Another small local gun store has around 100 guns ordered and paid for, but not sure when he will get them. Sounded like he had to pay up front just to order them. He and another local shop are buying what the think they can sell, but far from premium stuff.
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It now seems that the various shortages of bullets, primers and other reloading supplies are working their damaging way down stream.
I just got back from my local, commercial re-loader who employs about 4 people including the owner. They are finalizing the re-manufacture of 9mm to be used near term at a pistol match. When I asked him how he stood on supplies, his reply was that when this run was done they were effectively out of primers. He said their bullet maker is quoting at least 90-120 days for shipping with no guarantees. Re-supply of primers isn't being quoted by the manufacturers. Powder is in very short supply. New brass doesn't seem to exist anymore. When they are done with this current match run, they are essentially out of the reloading business. The owner is a pistol smith, too, and may be able to subsist on that business, but it is also slowing down some. And, three people are likely to be unemployed.
Now, here's where these shortages start working their way down stream...
Local reloader supplies the Police Pistol Range, and the range is also out of ammo. Local cop shops are complaining they do not have sufficient ammo for their officers to qualify. And, the range is seeing fewer civilians coming in to shoot because no one can replace what they shoot and are hoarding what they have left. The result may well be that the range closes to civilians or goes completely out of business.
And, here's where I think it could get very interesting. If the cops don't have enough ammo to perform quals, how much longer before they don't have enough "qualified" officers to fill their rosters. And how long until they don't have enough ammo to supply duty requirements? And, how much longer before the bad guys realize they can do whatever the heck they want without danger of being shot? I realize that last question sounds like it's "out there" but it seems to me to be within the realm of possibility.
We frequently ridicule the Barney Fife style shooting that cops are famous for, but if they can't even perform their qualification shooting, they are liable to get really wild. The idea of an empty gun and a bullet in the shirt pocket makes for decent comedy, but it's bad practice for a real police department.
I think things are going to get a lot more interesting before they start leveling out, and when prices finally do stabilize, they are likely to be a whole lot higher than they were before the current disaster was re-elected.
I've got no answers. I'm just sayin'...
Crusader Rabbit
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crusader,
Cops don't need ammo for their Glocks, they have incendiary tear gas!
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There you go, start issuing them bloopers with tear gas grenades.
I think I'd rather get shot. ;D
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And, here's where I think it could get very interesting. If the cops don't have enough ammo to perform quals, how much longer before they don't have enough "qualified" officers to fill their rosters. And how long until they don't have enough ammo to supply duty requirements? And, how much longer before the bad guys realize they can do whatever the heck they want without danger of being shot? I realize that last question sounds like it's "out there" but it seems to me to be within the realm of possibility.
We frequently ridicule the Barney Fife style shooting that cops are famous for, but if they can't even perform their qualification shooting, they are liable to get really wild. The idea of an empty gun and a bullet in the shirt pocket makes for decent comedy, but it's bad practice for a real police department.
I think things are going to get a lot more interesting before they start leveling out, and when prices finally do stabilize, they are likely to be a whole lot higher than they were before the current disaster was re-elected.
I've got no answers. I'm just sayin'...
Crusader Rabbit
But wait, if they actually try and qualify they get blamed for stockpiling ammo for some supposed war on civilians.
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jnevis,
Supposed? Do you suppose we are supposing...er, imagining what is going on? From a macro perspective: trickle down socialism, anti 2nd Amendment tendencies, violations of 4th Amendment protections for unreasonable search and seizure, warrant-less snooping, and invasion of privacy by drones, surrender of property rights, forced purchases under threat of punishment, fees or taxes...need I go on? Only a government insider would consider any of this to be "reasonable" and consistent with the Constitution. Yet, when we draw our own conclusions based on the limited information our government provides (add information manipulation to the list above), we are accused of having the audacity to suggest something is actually wrong. Well, sir, something is very wrong because the macro view tells me so.
Notice how many SWAT teams there are in this country? EVERY PD has at least one. None hesitates to use the SWAT team for almost any situation now and they make sure the public sees them with all their accoutrements. Why? Does it give the public a feeling of security? Or does it show the public who has the power? And the feds? How many departments in the executive branch have police and SWAT forces? Why are all these necessary? Is it because Americans are resisting the federal government? Or is it because the federal government wants those who may resist to understand the consequences? These questions are all rhetorical, of course.
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I never once said that there wasn't a problem with how the gov't has been expanded. There's a big difference between what you're talking about and the "DHS is buying enough ammo to shoot us all 5 times" BS I heard on the radio this morning. I don't know about you but I'd prefer a police dept, whether there was only one or 15,000+, that had officers that at least made an attempt to be proficient in the tools of thier jobs. You can't do that without expending ammunition but whenever anybody tries to order some, whether 100 or a billion, somebody wants to say they are going to shoot us with it. Can't have it both ways, sorry. If you don't want the police to have ammo, then don't complain when they actually have to use a firearm but they don't hit anything but bystanders.
SWAT is overused, even SWAT guys will tell you that. Problem is the people that are causing the problems now are better equiped and better armed than the cops. It was unheard of for a criminal to be wearing body armor, now its almost a given. A beat cop is not equiped to enter a meth lab or anywhere there is significant resistance. Look at North Hollywood. The LAPD Patrol officers had to go and get rifles from a gunshop down the street before they could engage the to bank robbers, and it still took SWAT to actually stop them. Now almost all of them have a rifle. The training has gotten better, but on a very limited scale.
There are 175 police departments within the 50 miles of DC but most of them have a nationwide jurisdiction that is measured in SQUARE FEET. The FBI for example, has a uniformed police dept that is technically seperate from the FBI itself, but only has authority to do anything on the physical property of the FBI HQ building. Is it dumb? Yes. Unlike a local or even state agency, a federal law enforcement entity is only allowed to conduct investigations in a VERY narrow field. That's why they have so many task forces. The Marshals can't arrest a drug dealer, the FBI can't arrest a counterfitter, DEA can't arrest a fugitve, and the Secret Service can't arrest an illegal, somebody else has to do it. Everybody has to stay in thier "swim lane." Hell, some federal agencies can't arrest or conduct surviellance at night by law, they have to have a local do it. Trying to consolidate some functions resulted in DHS and you think they're to big. Everytime someone tries to make those agencies smaller by moving responsibilities around, it dies because then there is to much power in one agency, so they break it up. Then there's to many agencies doing similar things and they're tripping all over themselves, which costs billions.