The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Rastus on June 21, 2009, 07:49:19 AM
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OK...any of you guys out there think about what we are going to do if there is an EMP event and how we are going to get into our "big steel box" with the electronic lock on it? No electricity for the drill to get in, no car to drag it till it breaks (bad for the guns anyway), no phone to call the safe company for help......
Hmmm?
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I don't have the answer, just another question.
Don't these safes have an alternate method of opening them and if they don't, why don't they?
Seems an EMP event is pretty unlikely but personally, I wouldn't buy a safe I couldn't open under extreme conditions such as a loss of power or the circuit getting fried.
Tin foil the whole house I guess! ;D
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No tinfoil required. Here in hurricane country, being without power for two weeks is not unheard of. Why would I want something where I can't get to my survival tools in the most likely survival situation? Its like electronic windows on the truck, great for driving, less fun if you put it in a canal.
FQ13
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Ewwwwww. A puzzler! Good one!
My safe has a key lock, but its a great question! Still trying to think of the best answer...
As far as possibility of it happening. Anybody NOT heard that North Korea is setting up ICBM's specificly to reach us? EMP will effect a MUCH larger area than the blast zone when a nuke is detonated...
Even OLD vehicles with point type ignitions are gonners depending on strength of the signal. EMP can cook the coil, alternator, and even the starter.
Where's my armadillo hat!?!?
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Lets try this one:
Even if said safe were plugged into 120VAC for power I think they use batteries for the computers in the locks. At the vey least the 120VAC would be cut back to low voltage DC just like the computer your looking at right now to operate anything other than the safes dehumidifier & lights. The solenoids that actually pull back the locking bars are going to be operated by 12VDC or less (UL would never allow AC current to be used in a home safe for this). I've yet to see the keypad that couldnt be smashed with a hammer and chisel, or hacksaw. Once inside the keypad you only have to trace the wires going out to the solenoids (very easy to locate), touch a 9 volt battery to the leads, and walla! Open sesame!
If one 9 volt doesnt have enough juice (my bet is it would be enough), use two in series!
Locks only exist to keep honest people honest. A dishonest, or determined person given enough time WILL defeat any lock. If a human mind created it, a human mind can defeat it.
Batteries rely on internal chemical reaction - Not effected by EMP. You just wont be plugging anything in to recharge them once they go dead is the threat to them.
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Which pretty much makes the 3K you spent on that safe worth the $15 dollars it costs to buy a hammer, chisel, some wire cutters and a 9 volt battery. Does it make me old to say I REALLY like analog and mechanical devices?
FQ13
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I know EMP works really well stimulating bone growth. :)
All kidding aside, I have lots of reasons not to buy a safe with built-in electronics and really don't need to think about an EMP event to sway my opinion.
Think of any electronic item and how long it lasts compared to a lets say a mechanical combination lock. I'll place my bet on mechanical over electronic any day.
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I know EMP works really well stimulating bone growth. :)
All kidding aside, I have lots of reasons not to buy a safe with built-in electronics and really don't need to think about an EMP event to sway my opinion.
Think of any electronic item and how long it lasts compared to a lets say a mechanical combination lock. I'll place my bet on mechanical over electronic any day.
Yes sir, electronics just start adding hundreds of points of failure onto any device they're attached to. Add as tech dependent as I am, I'd use something electronic without having some sort of redundancy, don't use GPS without a map and compass, don't use electric lantern with out having a propane backup in the truck. Electronics are just looking for a reason to crap out on you. Being completely immersed in the tech world, recently in the past two years I've been having some kind of tech backlash. I'll use it for work, but I won't buy tech stuff to fill my free time. I love pen, pencil, and paper now as opposed to the computer for art, and tabletop wargaming rather than videogames, even though I still play them on occasion.
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Yep! I can't even change the water pump on my F150. Only the third non-scheduled (meaning a part hadn't oulived its shelf life) failure I've had in 10 years on this vehicle, because its wired into the the chips that let me know when the truck is over heating. Granted, if I knew what I was doing, it would be zero problem, but the days of getting out a socket wrench and just fixing the damn thing seem to be over. Hooray for simple mechanical parts. Damn few left.
FQ13
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Like Badger, mine has a keyed lock in conjunction with the battery powered lock.
And, like he pointed out, it may be possible to jump out the circuit if it ain't fried.......used to do it all the time at work with interlock solenoids.
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Like Badger, mine has a keyed lock in conjunction with the battery powered lock.
And, like he pointed out, it may be possible to jump out the circuit if it ain't fried.......used to do it all the time at work with interlock solenoids.
Thats the problem with EMP, the whole system will be fried. Stick with mechanical.
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Hell. I work in the "electrical/electronics" field, and would NEVER rely solely on them for navigation on land or water, gun safes, or communication.
Many, many so called captains have no clue how to adhere to celestial navigation, compass, wrist watch and chart if the SHTF on their vessel.
I have studied EMP's and the effect they would have. 90 to 95% maybe even 98% would be clueless as how to proceed.
My grandfather taught me morse code from his Bluejackets Manual when I was a kid, I'm rusty for sure, but people today just don't want to learn such things anymore....
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(That's too bad)
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if there is a emp, your already boned...
I don't like eletric locks... damn batterys.
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Hell. I work in the "electrical/electronics" field, and would NEVER rely solely on them for navigation on land or water, gun safes, or communication.
Many, many so called captains have no clue how to adhere to celestial navigation, compass, wrist watch and chart if the SHTF on their vessel.
I have studied EMP's and the effect they would have. 90 to 95% maybe even 98% would be clueless as how to proceed.
My grandfather taught me morse code from his Bluejackets Manual when I was a kid, I'm rusty for sure, but people today just don't want to learn such things anymore....
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(That's too bad)
Do you, or any of you clients have need for a really nice (in the box) gold plated (to insure against corrosion, not for good looks) sextant? It was my stepfather's, who was a navigator in sailboat races. I don't want to sell it, its just that he would want it to be used, not gathering dust.
FQ13
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Do you, or any of you clients have need for a rally nice (in the box) gold plated (to einsure against corrosion, not for good looks) saextant? It wasmy stepfather's, who was a navigator in sailboat races. I don't want to sell it, its just that he would want it to be used, not gathering dust.
Man a sextant is a work of art for those who can use it. Some of the nimrods I work with probably couldn't spell it. I know blow boaters (some) can still use them.
I'll poke around, but if it was me, IMHO, I would keep it. The Davis Quadrant, and the alidade, a watch and a chart, worked for Magellan and those that can use it. Just need the Sun, Moon, and my Nautical Almanac.
I can get really, really close with one, missed Eleuthera by 3/4 mile with one back in the day, but it was a clear day and I could see the damn island when we got close, to get to the harbor.
How those mariners used them to navigate shoals, reefs, foul weather, fog, etc,... was/is amazing.
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Heck of a lot more boat wrecks back then, wouldn't ya say? ;)
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Heck of a lot more boat wrecks back then, wouldn't ya say? ;)
Absolutely, the wind on an otherwise no motor vessel, was another variable that had to be considered.
Wind blowing one way, current and tide going the other, and sailors trying to split the difference.
Testicular fortitude.
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EMP or something similar happens all the time. Lightning. In the last couple of days on two occassions lightning has shut off my TV and computer. It was not a power bump. The lights didn't flicker and other electronics were not affected.
A place I use to work relied upon modems for remote monitoring. About two days after we would have a severe electrical storm move through the modems would fail and need to be reprogrammed. An electronics and tech geek I know told me that lightning causes far more damage to electronics that people realize. Fail, many times, happens later and people don't associate the failure with the lightnig that happened a few days or weeks before.
I wish more products was available that didn't rely on electronics or batteries. I have been having a heck of a time trying to find a wind up backup alarm clock locally. Everything takes batteries.
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Do you, or any of you clients have need for a rally nice (in the box) gold plated (to einsure against corrosion, not for good looks) saextant? It wasmy stepfather's, who was a navigator in sailboat races. I don't want to sell it, its just that he would want it to be used, not gathering dust.
Man a sextant is a work of art for those who can use it. Some of the nimrods I work with probably couldn't spell it. I know blow boaters (some) can still use them.
I'll poke around, but if it was me, IMHO, I would keep it. The Davis Quadrant, and the alidade, a watch and a chart, worked for Magellan and those that can use it. Just need the Sun, Moon, and my Nautical Almanac.
I can get really, really close with one, missed Eleuthera by 3/4 mile with one back in the day, but it was a clear day and I could see the damn island when we got close, to get to the harbor.
How those mariners used them to navigate shoals, reefs, foul weather, fog, etc,... was/is amazing.
Exactly. I kept meaning to ask him (my step father) to teach me his navigation skills, because even though I'm a back country fly fisherman rather than a sailor, you never know when that stuff will come in handy. But one thing always led to another, and we were always busy, and all that wisdom that was mine for the asking died with him. I apologize for getting a bit maudlin, but its Father's Day, and I'm allowed to indulge. As I said, I don't know how to use it, as much as I wish I did. I do know that he had the same attitude towards his nav gear as I do towards my shotguns and fly rods. If you don't use it, why own it? I would like his to sextant to find a good home.
FQ13
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Exactly. I kept meaning to ask him (my step father) to teach me his navigation skills, because even though I'm a back country fly fisherman rather than a sailor, you never know when that stuff will come in handy. But one thing always led to another, and we were always busy, and all that wisdom that was mine for the asking died with him. I apologize for getting a bit maudlin, but its Father's Day, and I'm allowed to indulge. As I said, I don't know how to use it, as much as I wish I did. I do know that he had the same attitude towards his nav gear as I do towards my shotguns and fly rods. If you don't use it, why own it? I would like his to sextant to find a good home.
FQ13
FQ, why not learn how to use it and use as an honor your stepfather?
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from blackwolfe,
A place I use to work relied upon modems for remote monitoring. About two days after we would have a severe electrical storm move through the modems would fail and need to be reprogrammed. An electronics and tech geek I know told me that lightning causes far more damage to electronics that people realize. Fail, many times, happens later and people don't associate the failure with the lightnig that happened a few days or weeks before.
The problem with an EMP, is there will be NO REBOOT. Systems that rely on electricity, or electronics, etc,.. will have no foundation to restart. It erases them. Like wiping a cassette tape over a magnet,./.
It will go dark, stay dark, and be dark. Your Honda Generator has a 50/50 chance of not working. Wind mills will generate, tidal gens will work, if you have mechanical motors with no processors. Think old school car starters....
Starfish Prime, Test 184, and others, our gov't did a great job blowing stuff up back in the days when they could. Our military created geomagnetic storms, (thankfully over the ocean), that blew out Hawaii's grid almost a thousand miles away!
EMP's are easier than a nuclear reaction. A Hiroshima/Nagasaki grade weapon, considered antique by today's standards, would shut the North East Down. That would create a reaction rivaling 9/11, and more than one? ...........
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FQ, why not learn how to use it and use as an honor your stepfather?
You know, blackwolfe, that's a damn good question. I wish it was him teaching me, but maybe a little DIY would not go amiss here.
thanks
FQ13
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.....The problem with an EMP, is there will be NO REBOOT. Systems that rely on electricity, or electronics, etc,.. will have no foundation to restart. It erases them. Like wiping a cassette tape over a magnet,./.
It will go dark, stay dark, and be dark. Your Honda Generator has a 50/50 chance of not working. Wind mills will generate, tidal gens will work, if you have mechanical motors with no processors. Think old school car starters....
Starfish Prime, Test 184, and others, our gov't did a great job blowing stuff up back in the days when they could. Our military created geomagnetic storms, (thankfully over the ocean), that blew out Hawaii's grid almost a thousand miles away!
EMP's are easier than a nuclear reaction. A Hiroshima/Nagasaki grade weapon, considered antique by today's standards, would shut the North East Down. That would create a reaction rivaling 9/11, and more than one? ...........
http://www.onesecondafter.com/pb/wp_d10e87d9/wp_d10e87d9.html (http://www.onesecondafter.com/pb/wp_d10e87d9/wp_d10e87d9.html)
It's worse than wiping off a magnetic tape...or hard drive. EMP actually generates a current and voltage that will fry processors. It's not that they are wiped clean, it's that they are burnt out. They don't have to be on, they don't have to be outside, they don't even have to be installed, they are wiped out.
The link above will take you lots of places...I read the book (Thanks for the referral Mr. Bane) because I've had an interest in EMP events for nearly two decades now. It's a booger...what do you do when the power goes out and no one dies today....it's insidious, people will die out over a year's time. First the people on meds and med support...the heart and diabetic med people...it's not just about electricity...it's that everything tied to a microprocessor will stop until it get's new ones...and since the manufacturers (except overseas maybe) will be down, the nations commercial air fleet that was airborne is a scrap heap, trains are stuck in place won't run, cars are stopped on the side of the road...it'll be a while folks. Three days of food stocked in the local grocery is the average...then that's gone....and no way to transport more into the cities. It'll be medieval and gruesome if it ever happens.
Water and sewer services go down, people drink dirty water, things we haven't seen in a century here kill out a huge % of the population in a few weeks. Refineries...down for a year or more, no gas for those generators that won't survive unless grounded with the electronics removed and buried. Will something like this ever happen...I hope not. Is it possible...shortly.
In case ya'll forgot...and you probably never saw that news...but in the late 90's the idiot in North Korea fired a missile...nose cone made it to the Aleutians Islands. Now, he's firing one towards Hawaii on the 4th of July. I have doubts he can reach us now...but shortly.
So...all this being said and under the scrutiny of ridicule about tin hats...do you also remember all of the educated people, journalists, politicians that said Reagan's Star Wars program would not work? They said you couldn't perform a kinetic kill. They were wrong and we're dang lucky to have a measure of protections with our current ABM systems. W got that part right, even if he did screw up on the border.
Three or four nukes detonated above us in the right places can kill hundreds of millions by disrupting the machinery and systems that run our society....three or four nukes detonated in cities...minor in comparison.
Back to the safe question, I sent an email to Canon to see if I can convert to a mechanical lock system.
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One nuke of enough size, detonated at altitude over Central Kansas, could shut down the CONUS in a nanosecond.....lights out!
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One nuke of enough size, detonated at altitude over Central Kansas, could shut down the CONUS in a nanosecond.....lights out!
Or enhanced, like a neutron enhanced weapon.
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Yep! Thats the problem. Karl Marx (who was a damn good economic historian, politics aside) observed in volume three ::) of Das Kapital, that the the measure of society's progress was how many tools it took to make the tools we use to make other tools. We had a healthy and prosperous society in the 19th century without electricity, because the tool making infra-structure was designed to support it. Even though we obviously have that knowledge now, we don't have the infrastructure to reproduce it. Everything requires electronics to make it work. As a very simple for instance, TW and I live within 70 miles of each other. Now, if I wanted to find him,, I could do so in seconds. If the grid is down, he might as well be on the dark side of the moon. We WILL revert to the dark ages when the food runs out, the cop's radios don't work, their cars won't start and they decide that protecting their own families is more important than protecting us. Who will show up for work? Who will try to go through 100 year old manuals to find a work around.? Even if they do, what are the odds a mine owner will do the same to produce the coal or steel, and who will ship it, and how will the three find each other? It will be Mad Max. People fighting over the dwindling scraps of stuff we can't replace, but have the capacity to build if only we could communicate. Yet we won't be able to. Its what happens when stuff gets too complex, out sourced too far from home and too dependant on very fragile communications networks.
FQ13 who says a country boy can survive, and has 1 months fuel, food water and ammo every hurricane season to make sure that's thecase
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This is a solution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
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One thing you have to understand about an electromagnetic pulse is it has to be absorbed by something. The closer to the source the smaller the object would be to have to absorb enough to damage it.
A computer that is sitting completely unplugged from everything around it, will not be as affected by an EMP as your microwave plugged into the outlet. Same goes for an electronic lock on a safe. It wouldn't be bothered by an EMP either. I have a safe with an electronic lock. It uses 2 9-volt batteries to power everything. If you try an tamper with it, you will never be able to open it short of a very large torch and saw. The use of the internal power source keeps it disconnected from "The Grid".
Most people fail to realize that EMP strikes happen every day. The sun gives off a lot of these pulses that effect the earth. Cell phones don't work as well, Over-the-Air TV doesn't come in clearly, or CB radios won't reach as far.The atmosphere absorbs most of it, but even a nuke detonated within our atmosphere wouldn't affect EVERY SINGLE electronic around. Solid state devices may take more damage but most would still survive. Electronics would have to have enough metallic mass (like power lines for instance) to absorb enough electromagnetic radiation to cause a failure.
Think of it like a lightning strike. Just because your TV fries out when your house gets struck, doesn't mean your cell phone sitting on the counter will fry too.
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Didn't Michael Bane have a Canon Safe that's electronic lock went kablooey? I think there's a post somewhere on here. It was on his Blog too.
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2008/12/cannon-safe-failure.html (http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2008/12/cannon-safe-failure.html)
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2008/12/more-thoughts-on-cannon-safe-failure.html (http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2008/12/more-thoughts-on-cannon-safe-failure.html)
I think there were follow ups that led him to go with another manufacturer.
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...A computer that is sitting completely unplugged from everything around it, will not be as affected by an EMP as your microwave plugged into the outlet. Same goes for an electronic lock on a safe. It wouldn't be bothered by an EMP either. ...
Most people fail to realize that EMP strikes happen every day. The sun gives off a lot of these pulses that effect the earth. Cell phones don't work as well, Over-the-Air TV doesn't come in clearly, or CB radios won't reach as far.The atmosphere absorbs most of it, but even a nuke detonated within our atmosphere wouldn't affect EVERY SINGLE electronic around. ....
We should all review, in detail, the literature that's out there. Sure, if you are 2,000 miles from an event you'll be OK unplugged, 1,000 miles, not so much. Your equipment doesn't have to be plugged into the power grid to be damaged....the pulse amplified by the Compton effect in the upper atmosphere will enhance the reaction and actually generate a current within a discreet component (even if it's on the shelf for a replacement somewhere, like for your car computer). The EMP events referred to as a daily occurrence are orders of magnitude (an order of magnitude is a log scale measurement where, starting as low as, for example, 0.01, then next is 0.1, then 1.0 then 10, then 1000, then 10,000, then 100,000 then 1,000,000 and so on...) greater than the day to day occurences we see.
Sometimes the natural events are responsible for power outages in Canada and they've designed for it....but an EMP event will be much stronger than a natural event. In fact, a solar event in the mid 1800's took out telegraph service in the US, much more robust a system than our cell towers, computers, power grid, car computers, industrial equipment, etc. of today. The solar events generally are tied to power lines to generate the current...and EMP event is different in it's characteristics and far more severe than anything we've seen from a solar event.
Unplugging won't help if you are "near" an EMP event....that's one of the things that is so catastrophic about it. Your battery in your car will be OK...your ignition system will be fried. Good thing is, EMP is basically line-of-sight and it does have a limit to it's extent, so it would take several to knock out the entire US.
Again, read the literature that's out there and attempt to discount what internet experts have to say. There are some declassified Mil-spec documents on how to measure and protect from EMP that can help and, if you've a bit of electronics savvy, you can read them for yourself and assess the level of damage that can be experienced from an EMP event. Also take a look at how an underground power grid was taken out in Russia during some nuclear tests...the severity caught everyone offguard and reinforced that EMP effects can find their way into Faraday cages built for the protection of systems that does not have proper protection for ingoing and outgoing lines.
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Rastus is on point.
We don't as a country have much evidence of catastrophic EMP research because we haven't detonated a nuclear device since 1963. Most severe damage would be within a few hundred miles from the event out to "line of sight" so a detonation at ground level would be less significant for long range damage than a detonation at altitude.
A high-altitude nuclear detonation produces an immediate flux of gamma rays from the nuclear reactions within the device. These photons in turn produce high energy free electrons by Compton scattering at altitudes between (roughly) 20 and 40 km. These electrons are then trapped in the Earths magnetic field, giving rise to an oscillating electric current. This current is asymmetric in general and gives rise to a rapidly rising radiated electromagnetic field called an electromagnetic pulse (EMP). Because the electrons are trapped essentially simultaneously, a very large electromagnetic source radiates coherently.
The pulse can easily span continent-sized areas, and this radiation can affect systems on land, sea, and air. The first recorded EMP incident accompanied a high-altitude nuclear test over the South Pacific and resulted in power system failures as far away as Hawaii. A large device detonated at 400500 km over Kansas would affect all of CONUS. The signal from such an event extends to the visual horizon as seen from the burst point.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm
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mmmm, now that I think about it a little more. I dont believe unless your within blast range of ground zero the electro-magnet solenoid in an electronic safe door would be effected. Its sheilded by something like 1/16" to 1/8" steel that would defuse the pulse. Government EMP safe laptops rely on a foil layer .007" - .009" thick to defuse EMP... The keypad may fry, I'd be surprised if it got to the solenoid down at the handle in the middle of the door though. Those little things often only need 3VDC to actuate. Beter be ready to turn that handle as soon as you hook up your 9 volt, it'll likely fry the solenoid in a second or two, but once you turn the handle past the keyway its all good. EMP works something similar to ultrasonic welding, melting and fusing together circuitry.
It's feasable that North Korea will give us all the oportunity to learn more first hand very soon!
Combination safes are as easy to defeat as electronic. Pry or pull off the dial, chisel through the plate behind, and you'll find tumblers just like a key lock.
A human mind made it, a human mind can defeat it. Big price tags on safes are to buy cool looks, and cool features like recessed mood lighting. I've seen one with a mirrored ceiling! Perverts!
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Read this before you go under estimating the effects of EMP, the truth may not set you free but I bet it will scare the crap out of you.
http://www.onesecondafter.com/pb/wp_d10e87d9/wp_d10e87d9.html
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Since Cuba has no newer cars since the Revolution, they should be all set on transportation! Sure wish I still had my Mustang! ;D
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Read this before you go under estimating the effects of EMP, the truth may not set you free but I bet it will scare the crap out of you.
http://www.onesecondafter.com/pb/wp_d10e87d9/wp_d10e87d9.html
Solar flares and extra-terrestrial gamma sources cause interference with radio frequency channels, like cellphone and over the air TV. These are not the same as an EMP, which as noted causes spikes of electricity within devices frying them.
One of the problems I have is that sources like One Second After conflict with others in the effects of EMP. In the example above, I have seen some "experts" state that unconnected devices will not be affected and cars will not either unless you are within a small cone under a 50 mile high detonation. Then One Second After says everyone will be down, even our back up supplies.
Before I got laid off, I was seriously beginning to look at pre-1982 pickups - before electronic anything in vehicles. I was planning to keep spare electrical components (points, plugs, radios, etc.) in grounded ammo cans just in case. I do like power windows though . . . .
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Read this before you go under estimating the effects of EMP, the truth may not set you free but I bet it will scare the crap out of you.
http://www.onesecondafter.com/pb/wp_d10e87d9/wp_d10e87d9.html
if this stuff is true we could take care of N. Korea easily. think this would wipe out their nukes without killing the population? problem there would be the neighboring countries and then getting back in to help the people. though I doubt they would have much trouble living without electricity. hell, they already live without enough food.
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if this stuff is true we could take care of N. Korea easily. think this would wipe out their nukes without killing the population? problem there would be the neighboring countries and then getting back in to help the people. though I doubt they would have much trouble living without electricity. hell, they already live without enough food.
I was going to say, if you turned off the electricity to NK, who woud notice. You must have seen that nightime sattelite photo that shows SK all lit up and NK as dark as the inside of a dog.
FQ13
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Solar flares and extra-terrestrial gamma sources cause interference with radio frequency channels, like cellphone and over the air TV. These are not the same as an EMP, which as noted causes spikes of electricity within devices frying them.
One of the problems I have is that sources like One Second After conflict with others in the effects of EMP. In the example above, I have seen some "experts" state that unconnected devices will not be affected and cars will not either unless you are within a small cone under a 50 mile high detonation. Then One Second After says everyone will be down, even our back up supplies.
Before I got laid off, I was seriously beginning to look at pre-1982 pickups - before electronic anything in vehicles. I was planning to keep spare electrical components (points, plugs, radios, etc.) in grounded ammo cans just in case. I do like power windows though . . . .
I saw a show on Discovery a while back on EMP (might have been Future Weapons when it still came on that channel).
They did a demo with an automobile. They had an EMP producing source suspended from a twin set of scaffold towers at about thirty or so feet high. They drove the car under the source and it killed it, but it had to be directly under the source.
I know a high powered, high altitude source would be much more devastating, but the cone principle might still apply.
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In the case of a nuke generated EMP the "Cone Principle" couldn't apply as a nuke blast is spherical it's effects would propagate as an expanding sphere until dissipated, absorbed, or reflected by something. The example on the show was either shielded to protect other equipment or it was deliberately contained
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I've SEEN EMP cooked alternators, starters, and coils... How's a 65 beetle or mustang going to run without those? It even cooked the filement in all the cars light bulbs. Granted, having spares of those parts is far from out of the question, and at least buying the spares for the beetle would probably cost you under a hundred bucks total. Wrap'em up in a few layers of tin foil and put them in your basement. You still wont be driving very far with dead cars blocking all the roads, and with people getting car jacked in todays times... You dont think it'll happen when your the only car moving anywhere?!?
Come on North Korea, get it done already! Inquiring minds want to know!
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I was going to say, if you turned off the electricity to NK, who woud notice. You must have seen that nightime sattelite photo that shows SK all lit up and NK as dark as the inside of a dog.
FQ13
I was aiming at securing their weapon systems. if the nukes don't work, ya can't shoot the darn things. as the only ones that have the luxury of electricity are party members, military and the 'elite' (the commies). so if you eliminate their communication and weapons systems then we have rendered them 'useless'. no way to retaliate, whereas the common folk keep doing what they do. hell, some of their trucks run on wood!
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A few hundred people in England can attest that a malfunctioning (pilot screwed up) pod on an F-16 will put out enough EMP to cause tube tv's to blow up in peoples living rooms! When I say blow up, I mean what your probably thinking. The glass tubes went boom all over the room!
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http://www.pjtv.com/video/Specials/EMP%3A_The_Very_Real_Threat_of_Electromagnetic_PulsePart_1_of_3%3A_EMP_101/2056/
some more of the 'one second after' author
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A few hundred people in England can attest that a malfunctioning (pilot screwed up) pod on an F-16 will put out enough EMP to cause tube tv's to blow up in peoples living rooms! When I say blow up, I mean what your probably thinking. The glass tubes went boom all over the room!
I bet that guy said a big "oops".
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A few hundred people in England can attest that a malfunctioning (pilot screwed up) pod on an F-16 will put out enough EMP to cause tube tv's to blow up in peoples living rooms! When I say blow up, I mean what your probably thinking. The glass tubes went boom all over the room!
TVs don't blow up - tubes are vacuum, therefore they implode ("blow in"). Anyone care enough to snopes this?
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TVs don't blow up - tubes are vacuum, therefore they implode ("blow in"). Anyone care enough to snopes this?
You, sir, are correct.
We had a boob at work once that was goofing off and let a chain hoist hook get away from him and it smacked a 26" flat CRT touch screen monitor at the main machine console. Big boom.........big mess........... he needed stitches.....and clean underwear.
Implosion
A high vacuum exists within all CRT monitors. If the outer glass envelope is damaged, a dangerous implosion may occur. Due to the power of the implosion, glass pieces may bounce and explode outwards. This shrapnel can travel at dangerous and potentially fatal velocities. While modern CRTs used in televisions and computer displays have epoxy-bonded face-plates or other measures to prevent shattering of the envelope, CRTs removed from equipment must be handled carefully to avoid personal injury.
Early TV receivers had safety glass in front of their CRTs for protection. Modern CRTs have exposed faceplates; they have tension bands around the widest part of the glass envelope, at the edge of the faceplate, to keep the faceplate's glass under considerable compression, greatly enhancing resistance to impact. The tension in the band is on the order of a ton or more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_ray_tube
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So does anyone know if you could convert from digital to manual lock by yourself, or do HAVE to have a locksmith do it?
I would think since you can access the inside of the safe that it shouldn't be too hard, but I thought that Michael Bane had stated on his "old" safe that even to switch out electronic for electronic he had to have a locksmith do it.
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So does anyone know if you could convert from digital to manual lock by yourself, or do HAVE to have a locksmith do it?
I would think since you can access the inside of the safe that it shouldn't be too hard, but I thought that Michael Bane had stated on his "old" safe that even to switch out electronic for electronic he had to have a locksmith do it.
I think it could be done.....but it would be one heck of daunting a task.
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If you haven't bought a safe yet, then buy one with a mechanical lock and the question becomes moot. Converting one is much harder in my estimation. It would probably be much better to sell the one you have to a less "paranoid" person and then buy one with a mechanical lock. I am one of those "paranoid" people and my 'safes' are mechanical lock only.
As far as EMP goes, read the report put out by the commission and cry. :'( And don't forget to change your shorts either. :o
http://EMPCommission.org/
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Here is a 3 part discussion on EMP
http://www.pjtv.com/video/Specials/EMP%3A_The_Very_Real_Threat_of_Electromagnetic_PulsePart_1_of_3%3A_EMP_101/2056/
http://www.pjtv.com/video/Specials/EMP%3A_The_Very_Real_Threat_of_Electromagnetic_PulsePart_2_of_3%3A_Who_can_Attack_The_US%3F/2061/;jsessionid=abc4rShxSWtQ8fgdSQDis
http://www.pjtv.com/video/Specials/_EMP%3A_The_Very_Real_Threat_of_Electromagnetic_PulsePart_3_of_3%3A_Protecting_The_US_From_Attack/2066/
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Blow up, or implode. People werent that particular when it happend.
Nobody's supposed to talk about details on the whole incident other than what was covered by one local paper (It may be possible most others were discouraged from talking about it at all...). The paper quoted people saying things like. "We have glass all over the floor from the tv tube blowing up while I was in front of it.". Cars needing several hundreds of dollars worth of repairs, kitchen utensils cooked, and so on.
I would say the whole thing was weird because two identicle items could be in two houses hundreds of feet apart, one was BBQ, one wasnt. No clear rhyme or reason (yes that was in the paper too).
Where a US pilot to hypothetically activate an ECM pod on an F-16 at low altitude over a residential area oversea's by accident, one might guess said pilot would soon be a civilian... And many enlisted men cleaning up his mess might hypothetically be VERY pissed with said idiot! Not to mention all the people who's stuff got cooked five miles from a hypothetical base... I was in theater durring the time, I may hypothetically have seen some aftermath...
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Under the British "Official Secrets Act" they have what are called "D notices" which tells media outlets basically "shut up or be shut down"
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Here is a 3 part discussion on EMP
http://www.pjtv.com/video/Specials/EMP%3A_The_Very_Real_Threat_of_Electromagnetic_PulsePart_1_of_3%3A_EMP_101/2056/
http://www.pjtv.com/video/Specials/EMP%3A_The_Very_Real_Threat_of_Electromagnetic_PulsePart_2_of_3%3A_Who_can_Attack_The_US%3F/2061/;jsessionid=abc4rShxSWtQ8fgdSQDis
http://www.pjtv.com/video/Specials/_EMP%3A_The_Very_Real_Threat_of_Electromagnetic_PulsePart_3_of_3%3A_Protecting_The_US_From_Attack/2066/
Can't wait until they make a movie on this one. Who should be the lead character?
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In the 60's we detonated hundreds of nukes in the Nevada desert. Many saw the flash from downtown Las Vegas. If you go on Google Earth, you can still see all of the craters on Yucca Flat. How come Vegas didn't "go dead"? Many of these were open air tests done before the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty was signed. Bill T.
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In the 60's we detonated hundreds of nukes in the Nevada desert. Many saw the flash from downtown Las Vegas. If you go on Google Earth, you can still see all of the craters on Yucca Flat. How come Vegas didn't "go dead"? Many of these were open air tests done before the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty was signed. Bill T.
Bill,
Of the 1021 tests at Yucca, 921 were underground detonations. The remainder were more than likely low yield explosions and the line of sight thing comes into play.
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In the 60's we detonated hundreds of nukes in the Nevada desert. Many saw the flash from downtown Las Vegas. If you go on Google Earth, you can still see all of the craters on Yucca Flat. How come Vegas didn't "go dead"? Many of these were open air tests done before the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty was signed. Bill T.
There was EMP, localized and line of sight without the Compton Effect that amplifies the EMP damage by being detonated in the upper atmosphere. Check out the Starfish and other tests that were above the upper atmosphere...quite impressive EMP developed that knocked out some power in Hawaii and other places as a part of the historical record. Vegas was not affected for solid scientific reason and there is a lot of information available with detail to satisfy your interest well beyond the space of this thread with a Yahoo search. Below is a link to underground testing and some some results thereof.
http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/mctl98-2/p2sec06.pdf (http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/mctl98-2/p2sec06.pdf)
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Great find Rastus!
I've save that for future reference. I speed read about twenty pages already but I'm going to sit back and study that one later.
;)
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I'll have to take you guy's word on this stuff. The only experience I've seen in regards to all of this was in the movie "Broken Arrow" when the nuke went off and Travolta was lighting a cigarette and said, "OOOH Damn What A Rush!!" ;D Bill T.
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I'll have to take you guy's word on this stuff. The only experience I've seen in regards to all of this was in the movie "Broken Arrow" when the nuke went off and Travolta was lighting a cigarette and said, "OOOH Damn What A Rush!!" ;D Bill T.
Bill,
Do yourself a favor and don't watch any more movies with Travolta in them! ;D Scientologists are impervious to radiation! ;)
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Bill,
Do yourself a favor and don't watch any more movies with Travolta in them! ;D Scientologists are impervious to radiation! ;)
Swordfish was pretty good ;D
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Great find Rastus!
I've save that for future reference. I speed read about twenty pages already but I'm going to sit back and study that one later.
;)
+1
I just saved the PDF for future reference also.
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Day 4 with no electricity for a lot of people due to the storms. At least the power loss is spread around a bit and not just in one spot. I'm wondering if the inner cities were hit with the loss or mostly suburbs & business. I'm supposing there's no shortage of water or sewer services yet???
Still, after 4 days of no power in the summer nerves have to start getting frayed.
This power loss in the heat of summer is a good learning ground for a lot of people to consider how to address an EMP event.
I'm just saying....
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Say how are those Chevy Volts working out with no recharging capabilities in the "affected" areas?
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Say how are those Chevy Volts working out with no recharging capabilities in the "affected" areas?
Probably not much worse than anything else since gas pumps run on electricity.
In fact, if there is a way to hook up a solar charger they may do better.
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Say how are those Chevy Volts working out with no recharging capabilities in the "affected" areas?
I think the Chevy Volt will run on gas only if the battery goes dead. The Nissan Leaf on the other hand is a dead duck without a method to recharge it. It is strictly battery powered.
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I'm picking this up in an old thread because there is a lot of good information in it to go back and read.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/dod-plans-solar-storm-based-national-blackout-drill-during-antifa-protests-november (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/dod-plans-solar-storm-based-national-blackout-drill-during-antifa-protests-november)
The Department of Defense is planning a drill to simulate an electrical blackout cause by a solar storm. I think that's a cover for planning a drill for a North Korean EMP device (or future Iranian device). Ham radio operators will be getting into the act for communications. There's a letter posted in the article linked above.
In fact, after being pretty much kicked to the curb MARS (Military Auxiliary Radio System) has a renewed interest these days.
Read the linked article but read or reread this thread. A lot of good info in it. We discussed a timeline for an EMP event in the thread...maybe time is getting close.
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EMP is back in the news...there is a new report from the US Air Force, the 2018 ELECTROMAGNETIC DEFENSE TASK
FORCE:
https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/AUPress/Papers/LP_0002_DeMaio_Electromagnetic_Defense_Task_Force.pdf (https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/AUPress/Papers/LP_0002_DeMaio_Electromagnetic_Defense_Task_Force.pdf)
90% of the East Coast US population dead in 1 year. 99 nuke reactors would melt down.
From this article: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/military-warns-emp-attack-could-wipe-out-america-democracy-world-order (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/military-warns-emp-attack-could-wipe-out-america-democracy-world-order)
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I did switch to EMP proof gunsafe locks, by the way.
And now may not be a bad time to bring an EMP strike conversation up again?
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So with what is going on in Ukraine and realizing we are getting a lot of opinion I have opted to store few things away in case there is an EMP attack.
Shortwave transceiver, shortwave receiver, antenna analyzer, programming cables, solar battery chargers, etc. One thing I realized is that even my thermometers are electronic so they went in the Faraday cage along with the BP machine, O2 sensor, etc.
Here's an update on EMP: https://defconwarningsystem.com/digest/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Russia-EMP-Threat.pdf (https://defconwarningsystem.com/digest/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Russia-EMP-Threat.pdf)
I figure many if not all of the nuclear reactors we have will experience a meltdown. If you live a little west of the Mississippi River you will have a litle less of this to worry about.
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I did switch to EMP proof gunsafe locks, by the way.
Switch to dial or EMP-proof electronic? And DIY or hire someone to do it?
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EMP proof electronic locks. It was an easy switch.
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New EMP warning: US will ‘cease to exist,’ 90 percent of population will die
That's what is reported. I hope it never comes to pass. http://www.firstempcommission.org/ (http://www.firstempcommission.org/)
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/new-emp-warning-us-will-cease-to-exist-90-of-population-will-die (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/new-emp-warning-us-will-cease-to-exist-90-of-population-will-die)
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Choosing safes with the right locks is vital, namely, with EMP-proof electronic locks. Fort Knox installs these locks on all of its safes. As a last resort, if you have a safe from another manufacturer, contact your local locksmith to have your lock replaced with an EMP proof or dial one.
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I repeat:
S&G dial locks. No batteries. No electronics. Absolutely EMP proof.