The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Marshal Halloway on April 15, 2008, 08:45:04 AM
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Wal-Mart Moving Away From Firearms
By Jim Shepherd
Apr 15, 2008 - 1:37:04 AM
Wal-Mart has announced it will now film its gun sales in the United States and create a computerized log of purchases. The log will also create a record and alert system that will record when a gun sold at a Wal-Mart is used in a crime. Should the purchaser of that gun later try to buy another gun at Wal-Mart, the system would alert the sales clerk who could then refuse to make another sale.
[ Read More... (http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish/shepherd/164.shtml) ]
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Yeah, I saw that last night on the news. I would guess their gun business is going down the toilet after this. Be interesting to see the results say after 1 year.
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"The company will also run background checks on any employee who handles firearms. "
But not to see if they are in the country legally!
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This is good news for the local gun stores. Their ammo sales will go up. As will gun sales. That is, if everyone's aware that Wally World will be going all big brother on the gun sales.
Do you think Inner Party members will have to be photographed to buy a gun?
Edited to add: I demand that Walmart photograph anyone who buys a printer or computer as well. They could be used for evil free speech.
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WalMart's moves lately in guns and ammo are more than irritating! All of our WalMarts up here have or are going out of guns. Most still carry ammo, but it is just basic stuff with no real choices.
Through earlier releases and with this move I see WalMart as saying "We don't really want to sell guns and ammo, but to best serve our customers we will do it." They are also telling the anti's "We want out of this, but because of our customer base we need to do something, so we have backed off to the barest stock." They also cater to the anti's by being a test site for all their intrusive regulations.
My crystal ball tells me that the next announcement from WalMart will be "We are the world's largest retailer, we have completely dropped all firearms and ammo, and our sales are higher than ever." "We are seeing families shopping here, and they tell us they love the comfort of not having dangerous items in the store." And, "Handling firearms sales was high stress and involved a lot of extra expense for us as a company, our employers, and our customers, and in this tight economy we could just not justify this cost of opperation just to appease a few fringe customers."
I talked about the homoginization of the firearms industry caused by merger, aquisition and trying to be everything to everyone. I see these moves by WalMart as eroding our opportunities and rights by tweaking the free market.
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I have never bought a F/A at Wal-Mart (Or intend too!) I do buy ammo. I allways buy F/A's at local gun shops (Help the little guy.) I think that I'll help them even more now, with my ammo purchases. :)
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So how long does anybody think it will take (or should take) for someone, backed by the NRA and/or others, to sue WalMart for personal security issues having documenting them as if they were a criminal, or GOING to be, even if they pass the NICS checks and any state background checks? Wouldn't thier database violate the Tiahart Amendment?
WalMart is too BIG and too PERVASIVE to even try and suggest a boycott or something similar. Letter writing will probably be a waste of effort to but at least they'd have an idea of the response.
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I have NEVER bought a thing at a WalMart and will not ever unless the big one comes and it's the only store left on earth. At that point, I'd probably just go rob it anyway.
They've been predatory since day one, they abuse their employees and their suppliers and now they want to be politically correct? It's just a move they're making because they think it will benefit their image a little.
Of course, once again it's a measure that will ostracize legal gun owners and do NOTHING (I repeat, in even BIGGER letters) NOTHING to curtail illegal gun sales or use. More lip service, less freedom courtesy of the scumbag 800 pound retail gorilla.
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I e-mailed WalMart last night, informing them I would no longer be spending my money at their stores, and why. Here's what the "deal" includes;
The 10 points of the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership are:
1. Videotaping the Point of Sale for All Firearms Transactions. Participating retailers will videotape the point-of-sale of all firearms transactions and maintain videos for 6 months to deter illegal purchases and monitor employees.
2. Computerized Crime Gun Trace Log and Alert System. Mayors Against Illegal Guns will develop a computerized system that participating retailers will implement over time to log crime gun traces relating to the retailer. Once the program is in place, if a customer who has a prior trace at that retailer attempts to purchase a firearm, the sale will be electronically flagged. The retailer would have discretion to proceed with the sale or stop the sale.
3. Purchaser Declaration. For sales flagged by the trace alert system, participating retailers will ask purchasers to fill out a declaration indicating that they meet the legal requirement to purchase the firearm.
4. Deterring Fake IDs. Participating retailers will only accept valid federal- or state-issued picture IDs as primary identification. Retailers will utilize additional ID checking mechanisms.
5. Consistent Visible Signage Consistent Visible Signage. Participating retailers will post signage created by the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership to alert customers of their legal responsibilities at the point-of-sale.
6. Employee Background Checks. Participating retailers will conduct criminal background checks for all employees selling or handling firearms.
7. Employee Responsibility Training. Participating retailers will participate in an employee responsibility training program focused on deterring illegal purchasers. The Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership will create an online training system based on Wal-Mart's training program.
8. Inventory Checking. Participating retailers will conduct daily and quarterly audits. Guidelines will be based on Wal-Mart's existing audit procedures.
9. No Sales Without Background Check Results. Participating retailers would prohibit sales based on "default proceeds," which are permitted by law when the background check has not returned a result within 3 days.
10. Securing Firearms. Participating retailers will maintain firearms kept in customer accessible areas in locked cases or locked to racks.
Participating retailers will phase in the provisions of Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership over time.
http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/media-center/pr007-08.shtml
Send comments to WalMart: http://walmartstores.com/contactus/feedback.aspx
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Sad part is most of the "10 Points" is at face value a bad idea, or something the BATFE has mandated for years to some extent: training for employees, proper background checks/legal IDs, inventory/paperwork audits and properly securing inventory. Last time I checked if someone tries to buy a firearm that isn't supposed to the background check flags and they should not be allowed to purchase the firearm, I didn't think it was ever up to the individual retailer to make that determination.
Problem lies with how that information is used and passed around to determine "eligibility"
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Wal-Mart Moving Away From Firearms
By Jim Shepherd
Apr 15, 2008 - 1:37:04 AM
Wal-Mart has announced it will now film its gun sales in the United States and create a computerized log of purchases. The log will also create a record and alert system that will record when a gun sold at a Wal-Mart is used in a crime. Should the purchaser of that gun later try to buy another gun at Wal-Mart, the system would alert the sales clerk who could then refuse to make another sale.
[ Read More... (http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish/shepherd/164.shtml) ]
There is going to be a lawsuit over this. As soon as they deny a gun sale to someone who is a law abiding citizen it will open them up for litigation in a big way. They can't just "refuse service" to someone because they want to - they have to abide by the laws and not infringe on someones constitutional rights.
There are a great number of scenarios where a law abiding person could buy a gun a Wal-Mart and it later be used in a crime that they did not even commit. They could sell it some years down the road, It could be stolen from them, it could be used by a family member in a crime or a domestic situation. Or, with some states confiscating guns for any reason they can find, it could even get into their database without it being used in a crime. Wal-Mart needs to get out of the guns and ammo business all together or this is going to really come back to bite them.
Full disclosure- I have bought guns at Wal-Mart, and probably would again if I found a deal that I could not pass up. (I bought a Remington 700 there last fall for $250)
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I e-mailed WalMart last night, informing them I would no longer be spending my money at their stores, and why. Here's what the "deal" includes;
The 10 points of the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership are:
1. Videotaping the Point of Sale for All Firearms Transactions. Participating retailers will videotape the point-of-sale of all firearms transactions and maintain videos for 6 months to deter illegal purchases and monitor employees.
2. Computerized Crime Gun Trace Log and Alert System. Mayors Against Illegal Guns will develop a computerized system that participating retailers will implement over time to log crime gun traces relating to the retailer. Once the program is in place, if a customer who has a prior trace at that retailer attempts to purchase a firearm, the sale will be electronically flagged. The retailer would have discretion to proceed with the sale or stop the sale.
3. Purchaser Declaration. For sales flagged by the trace alert system, participating retailers will ask purchasers to fill out a declaration indicating that they meet the legal requirement to purchase the firearm.
4. Deterring Fake IDs. Participating retailers will only accept valid federal- or state-issued picture IDs as primary identification. Retailers will utilize additional ID checking mechanisms.
5. Consistent Visible Signage Consistent Visible Signage. Participating retailers will post signage created by the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership to alert customers of their legal responsibilities at the point-of-sale.
6. Employee Background Checks. Participating retailers will conduct criminal background checks for all employees selling or handling firearms.
7. Employee Responsibility Training. Participating retailers will participate in an employee responsibility training program focused on deterring illegal purchasers. The Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership will create an online training system based on Wal-Mart's training program.
8. Inventory Checking. Participating retailers will conduct daily and quarterly audits. Guidelines will be based on Wal-Mart's existing audit procedures.
9. No Sales Without Background Check Results. Participating retailers would prohibit sales based on "default proceeds," which are permitted by law when the background check has not returned a result within 3 days.
10. Securing Firearms. Participating retailers will maintain firearms kept in customer accessible areas in locked cases or locked to racks.
Participating retailers will phase in the provisions of Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership over time.
http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/media-center/pr007-08.shtml
Send comments to WalMart: http://walmartstores.com/contactus/feedback.aspx
Pioneer, Did you get a responce from them?
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The NRA weighs in:
“I view it as a public relations stunt that stigmatizes law-abiding firearms purchasers exercising their freedom under the Constitution,” said NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre. He said that if politicians were serious about reducing gun crime they would worry less about legal sellers and buyers and get tougher criminal sentences for illegal gun dealers.
“I honestly think it’s a corporation trying to curry favor with politicians as opposed to doing anything meaningful about stopping crime,” said LaPierre.
http://www.star-telegram.com/national_news/story/582600.html
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I think this is the first time I've seen the BATF and gun rights activists on the same page, *sigh* only Walmart. This isn't the first time they've adopted leftist store policies: supporting Dems, supporting nationalized health care, being part of the "Green Scare" etc. Looks like I'm going to be walking a little farther for groceries from now on, the nearest grocery is a whole owned subsidary of Wal Mart.
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I'm going to go with...
WHo Fooking cares?
I don't go into walmart and have not for over a decade.
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Here is the canned response reply that I got from Wal-Mart's corporate feedback department:
Thank you for your message.
Dear John,
Wal-Mart understands its role as a leading, responsible retailer in the U.S. and is making strides to strengthen its already existing security processes to help combat illegal gun activity in the communities we serve. Wal-Mart has a long and proud history of offering the products hunters and outdoorsmen want and need and that will not change.
It is important to note that these procedures should not impede law-abiding citizens from purchasing firearms at our stores that sell them. These processes merely provide us, as a retailer, an additional mechanism to assist law enforcement when illegal activity occurs.
We are hopeful these enhanced processes with help from law enforcement and other retailers committing to do the same can make a positive difference in our communities.
Thank you,
Wal-Mart Customer Relations
John
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Was talking to the guy at the local Dicks sporting goods gun counter, he said that I was the third person that mentioned the Wal-Mart policy today. I know I won't shop there any more.
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"The company will also run background checks on any employee who handles firearms. "
But not to see if they are in the country legally!
Good one :)
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Since I think it is only fair to express our feelings to businesses I believe that it is time for someone that is a better writer than me to come up with a "business card" that we can all print out:
Dear WalMart:
Due to your stance on firearms and ammunition sales I will no longer patronize your business. Your extreme steps to expand the already limiting regulations and to invade our privacy through extreme measures such as recording my image for future reference while purchasing legal sporting arms is an unwarranted danger to my privacy and constitutional rights.
Given your current hostile environment toward sportsmen I will no longer support you with my hard earned money. When you return to reasonable and fair business practices I will return as a customer.
John Doe
Any Town, USA
Former WalMart Customer
A simple stop by the front door, run in and hand this card to the greeter in a polite way, and turn and walk out.
Any thoughts?
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Nice idea, but they have NEVER employed fair and reasonable business practices.
By the way, I didn't leave them an email of complaint because they wanted to collect enough information that I would never stop getting sales crap from them...plus I'm sure they sell the information all over the place.
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Some comments indicate not a big deal. Like Wal Mart is somehow not a player in the firearms arena. Just for laughs take a look at the Remington annual report. Walmart comprises over 17% of sales. The old saying of "he who pays the piper calls the tune" applies. Tommy Milner can bitch all he wants but he ain't gonna piss off his biggest customer even if they say they'll need a DNA sample from every buyer (and don't put that out of the realm of possibly - mark that down for the future). The big gun firms are public. They have shareholders to take care of and can't do a Ronnie Barrett.
Plus Walmart isn't gonna piss off 300 mayors. They call the tune in their areas also. This is just a great big contest of who has the biggest male genitals. Take a look at what Cabelas is going thru with their NJ store. They are trying to keep things civil but NJ is just about telling them nfw for a store across from NYC and in their state, that glorifies guns and hunting.
With Cerebus picking up all the gun companies how do you think they are going to react. I would suggest they will cut their loses and sell off to some offshore firm for pennies on the dollar.
Mom and pop shops are gonna be sweezed also. Take a look at the FFL numbers and how they have declined. How the hunting numbers have declined. What is the average age at your gun club? 50, 60 or older? Gun manufacturers are bleeding red ink. If you think this is an upward trend your kidding yourselves. We are spiraling downward and real fast. Enjoy what you have but your children won't have anything like it in their lifetimes. The few places you might be able to buy guns will have very little to offer. It will be like the empty food stores in Moscow in 1980.
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I also refuse to buy anything in their sporting goods section. The clerks havent been properly trained in the firearms industry like we law-abiding gun owners have. I just buy dog food for my 3 guard dogs I have and that is about it and some shirts and gun magazines with magazines[reading] that is 10% off retail and I am a disabled shooter. rich642z,Omaha,Ne. >:( >:( >:(
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I get tired of the debated statistic that "He who sells the most makes the rules". Walmart may be a large supplier of XY and Z, but that's only because WE the consumer shop there. If WE the consumer stop buying our much needed Chinese made crap from them, guess what, their sales drop and so does their influence. The consumer is the boss in this country, don't forget it. Now, put your wallet where your heart is and buy from the smaller retailers and/or "Mom and Pop" stores.
I only wish Walmart would take half as much interest in ensuring their food was safe for consumption.
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My head is hurting from all the news today. NY State had a massive loss in the Assembly to the gun control crowd and this whole Walmart thing. Been thinking on this some more.
When Walmart does something like this videotaping they will use the best of available technology to catalog and track all the sales. Instant retrieval. Google search capability. That will mean by proxy Bloomberg has acheived a NATIONAL REGISTRATION program. You don't think that next year he will tell the press "why if Walmart can do it can't the US Government?" You think that YOUR LOCAL police forces won't walk into the local Walmart and demand to do ad hoc queries on their databases? Bloomberg has already sent his cops as far as Virgina to pull off stings at gunshows and gunshops. He has teamed up HIS cops with BATF agents to walk into gunshops in NY and the BATF guy asks for the yellow sheets while the NYC cop looks over their shoulder. Totally violating the law regards privacy of the forms. You tell me that the chiefs of police in the major cities and your State Troopers won't take advantage of this? The vast majority of chiefs are political appointees.
When Bloomberg calls for Microstamping and turns to Walmart what do you think will happen. Walmart will DEMAND IT OF THEIR VENDORS. 17% of Remingtons business guys !!! Don't you think Tommy Milner may winch but he will salute and say Ay Ay captain ! All without a single legislature having to act. YOU DON'T GET TO VOTE ON THIS ONE. This my friends is the real POST HELLER WORLD. Bloomberg is just so freaking smart. He is OUTSOURCING POLITICAL ACTION.
Its all about the big MO. The momentum is building folks. You ingnore this. You ignore that. Then in a few years everyone of your neighbors are agreeing with the "guns should be stored at the police station" crowd. You'll be the one that they turn too and say "didn't you own guns Harry?" and they will be turning you in for re-education.
The NRA reeeeeaaaallllyyy needs to step up to the plate on this one.
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My head is hurting from all the news today. NY State had a massive loss in the Assembly to the gun control crowd and this whole Walmart thing. Been thinking on this some more.
When Walmart does something like this videotaping they will use the best of available technology to catalog and track all the sales. Instant retrieval. Google search capability. That will mean by proxy Bloomberg has acheived a NATIONAL REGISTRATION program. You don't think that next year he will tell the press "why if Walmart can do it can't the US Government?" You think that YOUR LOCAL police forces won't walk into the local Walmart and demand to do ad hoc queries on their databases? Bloomberg has already sent his cops as far as Virgina to pull off stings at gunshows and gunshops. He has teamed up HIS cops with BATF agents to walk into gunshops in NY and the BATF guy asks for the yellow sheets while the NYC cop looks over their shoulder. Totally violating the law regards privacy of the forms. You tell me that the chiefs of police in the major cities and your State Troopers won't take advantage of this? The vast majority of chiefs are political appointees.
When Bloomberg calls for Microstamping and turns to Walmart what do you think will happen. Walmart will DEMAND IT OF THEIR VENDORS. 17% of Remingtons business guys !!! Don't you think Tommy Milner may winch but he will salute and say Ay Ay captain ! All without a single legislature having to act. YOU DON'T GET TO VOTE ON THIS ONE. This my friends is the real POST HELLER WORLD. Bloomberg is just so freaking smart. He is OUTSOURCING POLITICAL ACTION.
Its all about the big MO. The momentum is building folks. You ingnore this. You ignore that. Then in a few years everyone of your neighbors are agreeing with the "guns should be stored at the police station" crowd. You'll be the one that they turn too and say "didn't you own guns Harry?" and they will be turning you in for re-education.
The NRA reeeeeaaaallllyyy needs to step up to the plate on this one.
Bullseye!
The NRA has really been dragging their feet lately. They need to be much more proactive to nip stuff like this in the bud before it happens. This is a very dangerous precedent, and all it took was some collusion and string pulling by a politician. Wal-Mart is a powerful force. When they say jump, their suppliers say how high.
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Since I think it is only fair to express our feelings to businesses I believe that it is time for someone that is a better writer than me to come up with a "business card" that we can all print out:
Dear WalMart:
Due to your stance on firearms and ammunition sales I will no longer patronize your business. Your extreme steps to expand the already limiting regulations and to invade our privacy through extreme measures such as recording my image for future reference while purchasing legal sporting arms is an unwarranted danger to my privacy and constitutional rights.
Given your current hostile environment toward sportsmen I will no longer support you with my hard earned money. When you return to reasonable and fair business practices I will return as a customer.
John Doe
Any Town, USA
Former WalMart Customer
A simple stop by the front door, run in and hand this card to the greeter in a polite way, and turn and walk out.
Any thoughts?
M58 hits the nail on the head and well written. Here is the e-mail address to contact the corporate office directly. I did.
http://walmartstores.com/contactus/feedback.aspx
Also this college student has nifty business cards to had out to anti-gun businesses
http://www.nogunsnoservice.com/
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When Bloomberg calls for Microstamping and turns to Walmart what do you think will happen. Walmart will DEMAND IT OF THEIR VENDORS. 17% of Remingtons business guys !!! Don't you think Tommy Milner may winch but he will salute and say Ay Ay captain ! All without a single legislature having to act. YOU DON'T GET TO VOTE ON THIS ONE. This my friends is the real POST HELLER WORLD. Bloomberg is just so freaking smart. He is OUTSOURCING POLITICAL ACTION.
The NRA reeeeeaaaallllyyy needs to step up to the plate on this one.
Now that is an excellent analysis.
And yes, the NRA needs to step up here and start finding a way to counter Bloomie. He is no longer funny and pathetic. Well, OK, he is pathetic, but no longer funny.
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Also this college student has nifty business cards to had out to anti-gun businesses
http://www.nogunsnoservice.com/
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UPDATE: Mandy is in the middle of college exams and expects to be back up and running May 5th
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I did buy a ruger 10/22 form Walmart last year and have bought ammo from them in the past. :-[ However I will not buy any more ammo or any firearm or firearm related products ( cleaning supplies, targets, ect) from them in the future. I live in Az. and we just got a Dicks Sporting Goods here but I have yet to check it out, will go tomorrow. Recently I have made my purchases from Bass Pro Shop, Cabellas or my local gun shops. I am more than willing to pay a few extra dollars to try to keep the stores that cater to the gun culture alive and well.
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I was thinking of a way to get Wally World's attention as I drove by one today. We can email all we want and they will continue to do what ever they want. Letters might get more attention.
However, how is this for an approach? You take a copy of either the Mayor's press release or the AP/Reuters article on it and visit your local Wal-Mart store. You find the manager and politely show him the article and say, "I have been a shopper at your store for X years and have saved my family plenty of money. However, given the new policy that Wal-Mart has adopted, I can no longer morally justify shopping at your store as your company is supporting a group that endangers my family. I'm sorry but that is just the way it is." If enough people do that, it WILL get back to Bentonville and it will be coming from the one source that they can't ignore - their local store managers.
John
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An interesting article in Government Computer News about how the Air Force sees the capabilities of Wal-Mart.
The Materiel Systems Group of the Air Force’s Enterprise Systems Division at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, brought AFKS online in 2002. The program’s first goal was to aggregate maintenance information from five base-level maintenance systems. Each company’s maintenance team knew what bedeviled their own aircraft but, across the service, there was no way to show trends, such as faulty parts arriving from a manufacturer.
“Each base had its own basic database, so the initial problem was to provide an integrated, online, ad hoc query capability for a global perspective,” said Mike Riley, the original program manager.
The development team visited a number of Fortune 500 companies, such as Wal-Mart Stores Inc., and learned how they made sense of their data: through warehouses.
“We were impressed by the kind of analysis that Wal-Mart was able to do to keep its supply chain moving,” Riley said. “The Air Force also needs to track a lot of parts and where things are in the maintenance pipeline. Wal-Mart was doing things in hours and days, but the Air Force was doing it in weeks.”
http://www.gcn.com/print/23_30/27531-1.html?topic=news