The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: kilopaparomeo on December 17, 2007, 11:17:58 PM
-
Well, I guess it makes sense. Seems like a handy, short range varmit gun or a fun plinker. The Ruger Charger...
(http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-22Charger/DSC02483.jpg)
As posted on gunblast.com http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-22Charger.htm (http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-22Charger.htm)
And, it gives us a new reason to buy a gun. That's good enough more me. ;D
-
Looks cool!
Not up at Ruger.com yet so no price.
-
Yeah, I seen it over on the Ruger Forum. It just does not do nothing for me, but to each his own. I have seen guns like this that another company used to make. Maybe Ruger is just trying to put them out of business for using their product!
-
Not something I would be interested in. If it trips your trigger I wouldn't put off buying one as this one may not last too long in the catalog. I don't see these as being a big seller over time.
-
To each his own. But this one is not my own
-
Listen to tomorrow's podcast!
Me and Jeff Quinn got the first two...
PS: Tactical Solutions already has my ultra-lite barrel in the works!
Michael B
-
I hope its alot cheaper than the T/C Contender, or it will be shortlived. Hard to beat that platform.
-
Ick... ruger can keep it.
-
Damn you, Bane!!!!
I didn't want one of these. I thought it looked kind of neat, but had no real use in my collection. So we're cool, right?
Then I listened to the podcast and heard you describe this as looking like "baby's first sniper rifle."
Now I have to have one.
Damn you.
-
Now what would be COOL 8) for a stock would be to lose the bi-pod and put another pistol grip there. If it was engineered well you could also use it as a bi-pod. FUN FUN FUN! ;D ;D ;D ;D
I am gonna have to get one of these! :D
You can NEVER have too many .22s!
-
Buy one of these ;D get an extra full length barrel, a full stock ;) and now you have 2 for less than the price of 2. Just like a contender.
-
Yikes! Don't even say that!
It's okay to put a longer barrel on it, but a full length stock makes it an SBR, which is Class 3! You gotta pay the $200 and get the tax stamp BEFORE you purchase a full-length stock...unless, of course, you already have a 10/22 rifle, in which case you can legally possess an aftermarket stock...
I know you were cracking wise...but this is actually a minefield waiting for the uninitiated...
Michael B
-
NO, don't make it longer. Just get a fore arm pistol grip and use the 30 round magazines. THAT would be cool!
-
22 MRF WAY COOL
-
Pardon me but I believe there was several others that have been making the 10/22 in pistol form for a little while now.
https://www.volquartsen.com/vc//pages/public/ListFams.jsp?id=5 (https://www.volquartsen.com/vc//pages/public/ListFams.jsp?id=5)
Namely Volquartsen, Granted not one of my favs but it would be something neat to play with.
J.Kee
-
Pardon me but I believe there was several others that have been making the 10/22 in pistol form for a little while now.
https://www.volquartsen.com/vc//pages/public/ListFams.jsp?id=5 (https://www.volquartsen.com/vc//pages/public/ListFams.jsp?id=5)
Namely Volquartsen, Granted not one of my favs but it would be something neat to play with.
J.Kee
True, but they cost in the $1,000.00 range. The Ruger is 369.95 MSRP and I have already seen it listed foe $312.00.
-
22 MRF WAY COOL
T-Bug,
22 MRF? HUH?
-
I agree with Hazcatput a pistol grip on it and I'll buy one.
-
Ick... ruger can keep it.
I'm with Tab, It's not my cup of tea!
-
Magnum rim fire C. T. G. Just like it says on my S&W Mo. 648
-
I see a new class comeing to the RUGER RIMFIRE CHALLENGE. ?????
-
W. M. R. TO EVERYBODY ELSE but S&W
-
Yikes! Don't even say that!
It's okay to put a longer barrel on it, but a full length stock makes it an SBR, which is Class 3! You gotta pay the $200 and get the tax stamp BEFORE you purchase a full-length stock...unless, of course, you already have a 10/22 rifle, in which case you can legally possess an aftermarket stock...
I know you were cracking wise...but this is actually a minefield waiting for the uninitiated...
Michael B
MB,
I don't want to open a can of worms but this question might. Why couldn't (legally) I put a long barrel (16"+) on the action and drop it into a rifle stock? It would be in a legal configuration. This debate is still going on with the TC Contender/Encore rigs. Can you put a pistol grip and short barrel on your Encore you bought in a rifle configuration? How about the other way around? This is very confusing to me. But, I am a little slow.........
And something completely different. If you have any pull with Tactical Solutions I have a wish list item. I would like a Ruger MK I, II, or III Barrel/receiver that max's out the IHMSA Unlimited class rules. 15" barrel, 15" sight radius, Bomar hooded front and rear sights (removable) and a full length scope rail. It would be nice for unlimited/unlimited any sight. This Charger just might make a nice unlimited gun too. Hmmmm..........................
-
52449,
I don't think it is legal because each action is registered as either a pistol or rifle.
To do it legally you would have to get the specific action either re registered (I don't even know if that is possible) or get the Class III (or what ever it is called) tax stamp.
-
Thanks Haz, I've heard that before and it seems to be the gov't's take on it. But "IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!!!" If it is legal to possess a certain configuration you should be able to convert an action to it. I know....., I'm barking up the wrong tree here. Just venting.
-
52449,
I agree with you and unless you were doing something to call attention to yourself you PROBABLY would not get caught for putting a rifle barrel on your Contender pistol action (I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS AS IT IS ILLEGAL).
I also don't understand why you cannot put a rifle butt stock on a pistol (ala 9mm WWII tanker pistol / carbine). I would like to have one fashioned for a pistol but I have been told it is not legal.
-
Maybe MB can contact someone at Ruger. Im sure they can clarify.
-
As I was listening to MB's podcast in the car yesterday, when he mentioned replacing the heavy wood stock, I was thinking that it should be fairly simple to get one of the after-market 10/22 rifle stocks with a pistol grip and cut it down - chop off the stock behind the pistol grip and shorten the barrel rest. A little bondo, and voila - a lighter-weight pistol stock for the Challenger.
So, based on all of the comments, would that be illegal? And is that law? or just another reason to abolish the BATFE ala the JPFO's efforts?
-
I want 1 for x-mas ;D
-
Pathfinder,
You could make any type of handgun stock you like for the Charger. I think a thumb hole type like you see on silhouette pistols might be nice. That dang magazine is in the way for a mid or forward grip though.
-
Hazcat has the right of it...receivers get registered as either handgun receivers or rifle receivers, and never the twain shall meet. You see the same thing with AR receivers. If it's a bare receiver, my understanding is that whatever the first configuration the gun is built into is its permanent configuration...once a pistol, always a pistol. Here are the ATF rules on SBRs from the NFA FAQ:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt
SHORT BARRELED RIFLES
A short barreled rifle (SBR) is defined in the law as:
26 U.S.C. sec. 5845(a)
* * * *
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches
in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified
has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or
barrels of less than 16 inches in length; * * *
The NFA law also defines "rifle":
26 U.S.C. sec. 5845(c) "The term 'rifle' means a weapon
designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be
fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned or made
or remade to use the energy of an explosive in a fixed
cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled
bore for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any
such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed
cartridge.
Thus you can see why a machine gun is not also a short barreled
rifle; it is not a rifle. And you can see why a barrel is not
subject to regulation, or registration, in itself. It is a barrel,
it cannot discharge a shot. A receiver alone is also not a short
rifle; a short rifle is only a complete weapon that fits into the
length parameters outlined.
ATF takes the position that this definition includes any
combination of parts from which a short barreled rifle can be
assembled. And they said this included a set of parts with dual
uses. In the Supreme court case of U.S. v. Thompson/Center Arms
Co., 504 U.S. 505 (1992) ATF said a set consisting of a receiver,
a 16"+ barrel, a pistol grip stock, a shoulder stock, and a barrel
less than 16 inches long was a short barreled rifle. The idea of
the kit was that you needed only one receiver, and you could have
both a rifle and pistol in one gun. While making a pistol out of a
rifle is making a short rifle, ATF has approved of converting a
pistol into a rifle, and then converting it back into a pistol,
without "making" a short barreled rifle when it is converted back
into a pistol; that was not an issue. See, for example Revenue
Rulings 59-340, 59-341 and 61-203. T/C made one set on a Form 1,
then sued for a tax refund, claiming the set was not a SBR, unless
it actually was assembled with the shoulder stock, and short
barrel, something they instructed the purchaser of the set not to
do. The Supreme court disagreed with ATF, and agreed with
Thompson/Center.
The Court said that a set of parts was not a short barreled
rifle, unless the only way to assemble the parts was into a short
barreled rifle. As this set had a legitimate, legal, use for all
the parts it was OK. However they also approved of lower court
cases holding that the sale by one person, at the same place, of
all the parts to assemble an AR-15, with a short barrel, was sale
of a SBR, even if they weren't assembled together at the moment of
the bust, and had in fact never been assembled. See U.S. v.
Drasen, 845 F.2d 731 (7th Cir. 1988). This was because the only
use for the parts in that case was a SBR. If the person in that
case also had a registered M-16, then there would be a legitimate
use for the SMG barrel, and there shouldn't be a problem. And the
Court agreed, of course, that a fully assembled rifle with a barrel
less than 16", or an overall length of less than 26" was also
subject to registration. Although it was not addressed in the
case, the rule is that an otherwise short barreled rifle that is
very easily restored to firing condition (readily restorable);
e.g., one missing a firing pin, but for that pin one may substitute
a nail or other common object, is also subject to the law.
Back in the early 1980s I got a T/C Contender with a 10-inch 45/70 barrel from J.D. Jones. Years later, in a moment of fairly spectacular brain-fade, J.D. convinced me that the .50/750 — a .50 caliber case from a 50/90 necked to fit a 750-grain .50 BMG bullet — would be just ducky in a lightweight Contender. Anyway, aside from the sheer stupidity of the project, in order to be by-the-book legal, I got the 16 1/2 inch .50 barrel first, because a pistol can have any length barrel. Then, when I got the barrel, I got a Choate folding stock. When I came to my senses, I sold the .50 barrel to another idiot, but not before I got a 16 1/2-inch .223 barrel so I wouldn't stuck with "the only way to assemble the parts was into a short-barreled rifle."
Michael B
-
It does seem to me, if I read this correctly, I could legally take the charger action and add a rifle stock with a >16 inch barrel but I couldn't change it back into a handgun. Or am I reading way more into this? This is also taking this thread way off topic.
The Charger has a lot of accuracy potential and might make an excellent Unlimited gun. You wouldn't have to change position to load or work a bolt. That is why I though a silhouette Tactical Solution barrel/receiver for a ruger MK II would be so nice.
-
MB,
Are black powder guns exempt? Reason I ask is about 6-8 months ago I was in a local gun shop that had BP revolvers with about an 8 or 9 inch barrel that was sold with a shoulder butt stock that could be easily added or removed from the firearm (remember the gun Angle Eyes used in "For A Few Dollars More?).
That is what I would like. No forearm but a shoulder stock.