The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Building America's Rifle => Topic started by: blackwolfe on September 05, 2016, 08:54:25 PM
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Spent a little time late last night after work, and this morning ordering some parts for a first AR build. Will probably build this fall or winter when I have more time. Figured I better get some of the parts now, before the election gets more heated and parts become unobtainable. There were lots of sales this holiday weekend, and I'm trying to not break the bank with this build. Ordered an Aero Precision stripped upper and lower and a Ballistic Advantage 16 inch midlength barrel. Got upper and lower parts kits and charging handle coming also. Trying to spread the other parts purchases over a couple of months as the funds become available. Need to decide on and get a butt stock, fore end/handguards, and sights. I have a BCG somewhere, I think Bushmaster, but may get something different. I already have a basic stock and handguard, that I have had around for awhile, so I can at least put it together, even if it is not quite what I want in the end. I was going to do a build a few years back, but because of some issues and personal reasons it never happened. That's the reason I have some miscellaneous parts about. I think I have all the necessary tools, but will need to double check.
I'm not going for a super light weight build, but don't want something that is big, fat, and club like either. Round or oval shaped handguards are readily available if I go that route. The ones I have on hand are fat like the M4 big fat guards, but I want something smaller. From memory, it seems like some of the round hanguards on AR's at the store are trimmer than others. Does anyone know what brand the smaller midlength hands guards might be?
I may go with some kind of free float handguard instead. Again I want something trimmer, and not packed full of rails that make it bigger, fatter and heavier. I'd rather have something that I can add a rail section or put accessories on as needed or wanted. I don't know much about the key lock or M lock rails. Any suggestions for a trimmer sized free float handguard would be appreciated. Will need some sights too, but I haven't even really thought about those yet. The barrel I'm getting comes with a low profile gas block, so any sights will either have to go on the handguard or I will have to use a different gas block.
Any suggestions or ideas on a butt stock? Again I don't want or need something bulky. Most likely I will go with some kind of adjustable stock, but I kind of like the Ace skeleton stock.
A few years back when I was contemplating a build, someone on here (maybe Frank or Tom) mentioned the Military Tech manual on Ar's, M16's and gave the number for it. If someone knows the name and the number of the manual, that would be helpful to me.
Any suggestions or pointers for the first build I'm planning would be helpful and appreciated. Thank you for your help.
Below are links to the major components I have ordered so far.
Upper:
http://aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-stripped-upper-receiver.html
Lower:
http://aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-stripped-lower-gen2-anodized-black.html
Barrel:
http://ballisticadvantage.com/16-inch-556-hanson-mid-cmv-performance-barrel.html
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my primary 3 gun carbine is a 16" RRA mid with a Midwest Industries full float hand guard that is smaller diameter than the factory railed gas block, which sets ahead of it... not a problem for me as I index on the vertical fore grip...proprietary barrel nut, and not inexpensive...can't help you on the stock as I use a VietNam era A1...as it's a game gun, a RRA NM trigger, Enidine hydraulic buffer, modified Miculek brake... I use a fixed 4x32 TA31F, and knock off offset sights for close range...will post a picture if I can get Photobucket to load
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Brownell's has a video series on building an AR that is much better than the tech manual as it shows you just how to do what you need.
http://www.ar15builder.com/
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I just finished my first AR (pistol, but the only difference is the barrel length). It was way less complicated than I always thought it would be. Brownells and youtube is your friend.
Get a good 1/2" drive torque wrench and a good set of vice blocks and an AR wrench. I already had a good torque wrench and found a vice block and wrench kit on ebay for less than $30 shipped.
Larry Potterfield has some excellent AR build videos on youtube, but also not that a lot of the "stuff" he tells you you "need" in order to build it is designed to sell you something. You really only need minimal tools, but you need the proper tools.
There are plenty of guys on here that can help you when the time comes to assemble.
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There's several threads about us guys building them. Not that we're experts, but it will tell you our process and travails.
My first AR build was just the lower, I bought a complete upper. Then I got brave and have since build 3 from scratch.
My experience is you decide on the barrel and upper first. Put those together with the gas block and tube, then you can decided and put on the fore end. Part of the fun is just deciding how you want yours to be unique. Also knowing if you want to change it out later you can.
You should use a torque wrench on the barrel, but you can get away with out it. The brilliance of the AR design is the lack of worry over headspacing.
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Watch the videos, especially the tricks for installing the detents on the forward reciever pin along with the tricks for installing the bolt stop roll pin and not scratching the lower. I would also recommend downloading and printing a step by step printout for your first build. It's not necessary but sure is handy. Ar15.com has some good tutorials available along with a life size layout sheet for all of your small parts too. I still use the layout because I'm to cheap to buy a good builders mat.
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I used a small putty knife on the detents.
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You never posted any pics, Tom!
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a good roll pin punch helps from scratching the receiver when you pin the bolt hold open... a 1/4" slave pin inserted from the left side allows you to put the take down detent and spring in place then insert the pin, pushing out the slave...if you have a gas block attached with set screws... a second detent in the barrel helps, and make sure the gas tube is parallel to the sides of the receiver and trial fit the bolt to make sure the gas key does not touch
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Thank you all for the help, suggestions, and encouragement.
Got the stripped upper, LPK, barrel, gas tube, and forward assist kit this week. Stripped lower should be here next week. I goofed and still need to get an ejection port door kit. I meant to get the kit that included it, but inadvertently ordered just the forward assist. Still haven't decided on what stock and forend or handguard I want to go with, but I have time for that yet.
I think I have the tools I need with the exception of a good bench vise and a good work place to use it.
I have watched the Brownell's how to videos and a few other manufactures videos. Still plan to watch the Midway videos and a few others. Still want to get the Military Tech manual.
Again I appreciate the help and suggestions and still need opinions and ideas for a stock and forend.
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My M16A2 TM is from October 1984. It has level 2 and 3 maintenance so it covers unit armorer (level 2 organizational) and small arms repair (level 3 intermediate) jobs and parts lists. This one is from the USMC and I don't think the army had an A2 manual yet when it came out. There should be newer manuals available. This one is TM 05538C-23&P/2. Appendix E has an illustrated list of tools you can make to help out with things like installing pivot pins.
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You never posted any pics, Tom!
Yeah, I didn't take any during the build.
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Yeah, I didn't take any during the build.
Got a camera now?
We never saw the final product.
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Frank, thanks for the heads up on the TM. Been looking at it online and printing out some of the pages.
DPW thanks for the tip on the layout sheet on AR15com, I'll have to look for that. Have been watching some of the videos. Probably have the tools needed.
Decided to go with an ACE skeleton stock, which arrived last week. Still need to decide on a hand guard.
My original plan was to more or less build this one decently, but on the cheap. That may go a little by the wayside as I am thinking of getting a Midwest Industries free float forend. MI can be a little pricey. Not a quad rail, but a trimmer one with M-Lok as opposed to KeyMod.
I'll take some pictures when I gather all the parts and build. I might need some help when it comes time to post them. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to to tech stuff like that. Do you think a caveman can do it?
I haven't even built one AR yet, and already think of a second one, so ordered this lower.
https://www.andersonrifles.com/product/dont-tread-on-me-lower-receiver-2235-56/
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Good going, Blackwolfe. Building becomes habit forming. Any excuse to start another one. Like my last which started when Suarez sent me a flash suppressor. The project hinged around that one part. Now the indoor ranges are have 2 gun matches with PCC.
Hmm might have to build one for that. OH WAIT, there's a 9mm boolit. Got to build an AR round that.
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Alf... if you decide to build a 9mm PCC, let me know...have been through some trials with a variety of buffer and spring combinations... as well as a scope selection...shot a 250 round PCC match in Frostproof Sunday, on 8 of the stages from the USPSA Nationals... USPSA President Mike Foley was there, and we offered several suggestions on start position and bag/unbag tables... he and Troy McManus (NROI Director) are soliciting comments from PCC competitors
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Cool, Les.
These are just local indoor matches and I hate to be excluded. I sold off my Camp Carbine several years back, and now regret it. I'm still in the stage where you figure out what priority this project is, really. Just to get in on the fun I could go with a Hi-point or a Kel-tec. But there's the lure of building another AR.
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I got my feet wet with a small Glock lower Mechtech carbine conversion, and then build an AR from a New Frontier Armory billet lower...
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Still haven't built The MSR yet. Still need to get a handguard/fore end. Picked up a few more tools and a bench vise. Been trying to spread the purchases out over a few months so I don't exceed the available cash flow. I hope to order one soon. Need to find the time to clean up the basement and mount the vise on a bench.
Going to AZ to see my new grandson. Need to get tires for the car also, and the upcoming holidays. All these things suffer the cash flow and available time.
Still open to ideas or suggestions on a free float handguard.
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blackwolfe... if you are not looking to hang accessories on it, I built my last two ARs with plain Yankee Hill Machine fore ends... full floated...I wasn't sure of the length I wanted on the 9mm PCC but will probably keep it as shown...not much of a "cool" factor, but works well for a competition carbine
(http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/LesSnyder/001_zps9yjndlga.jpg) (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/LesSnyder/media/001_zps9yjndlga.jpg.html)
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How strong of a set up is that free float hand guard (or any free float) ?
My only concern with the AR design is that everything forward of the mag well is hanging by only the barrel threads.
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Les that was like a "Duh" moment for me. If I'm not going to hang a coffee maker and an aquarium from the dang thing why do I need key mod or m lock or picatinny?
Unless I need a fold down front sight I'll stick with the tried and true even with a dot...and save a few bucks there too.
Tom I have the same concerns. I have a DMR build that floats. It seems sturdy enough but I always feel like, in the back of my head, that I need to be a bit gentle with the DMR just because. I haven't shot it enough to know if its going to hold up or not. Maybe after 4 or 5 thousand rounds I'll have an opinion... ???
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the $35 YHM shown has an aluminum barrel nut that is approx 1.5" long... it uses a 3 pin spanner to tighten... I go to 35 ft-lb and then line up the gas tube for a 5.56, not needed for the 9mm...the barrel nut is externally threaded for the tube itself, and once tightened is pretty stable, though can loosen... I usually add a drop of Loctite....I have a much more expensive $150 Midwest Industries full float on my primary 5.56 that uses a steel barrel nut, and the tube then clamps to the machined surface of the barrel nut with a pair of cap screws...the top rail is aligned with the receiver with a pair of ears.... very solid
(http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/LesSnyder/037_zpsx1xlk7wp.jpg) (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/LesSnyder/media/037_zpsx1xlk7wp.jpg.html)
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The only free-float I have (I'll be changing my carbine in the future as well) is on a short pistol, but like Les, there is a good 1.5 inches of fine threads...and mine has a locking ring and an extended set-screw that locks into the grooves in the center of the nut. It is very rigid and I don't think that would change if it were any longer.
I paid $30 for the kit that had the nut, fore-end, and four keymod rails with an end cover. I will probably buy the same version, just longer, for my carbine.
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Les that was like a "Duh" moment for me. If I'm not going to hang a coffee maker and an aquarium from the dang thing why do I need key mod or m lock or picatinny?
Unless I need a fold down front sight I'll stick with the tried and true even with a dot...and save a few bucks there too.
Tom I have the same concerns. I have a DMR build that floats. It seems sturdy enough but I always feel like, in the back of my head, that I need to be a bit gentle with the DMR just because. I haven't shot it enough to know if its going to hold up or not. Maybe after 4 or 5 thousand rounds I'll have an opinion... ???
Do not go with the old fashioned front sight ! Unless you lift the red dot about 2 inches all you will see through it is the backsideof the sight post.
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Do not go with the old fashioned front sight ! Unless you lift the red dot about 2 inches all you will see through it is the backsideof the sight post.
Tom, I'm OK with an EOTech on that. I dial it down until I see the 4 middle dots and line up front and rears for zero. And it does block at the bottom but it gives me co-witness confidence. It may be worse with one of the other dots.
I've been working so many hours to hang on the last 4 years, and I'm blessed I know, that I have displaced myself from the shooting I love. I need to get back up to speed.
Les, I see you like Yankee Hill and you mentioned the Midwest Industries.I've looked at YHM AR parts and like the quality. I just wanted to make sure in your last sentence that the Midwest Industries was more solid than the YHM? I'm interested in building some AR's over the next year and I'm trying to get on the bubble about what's new and improved from several years ago. I am defaulting toward Geissele forends because of their rep 3 years ago but they are pricey and I know price is not a good indicator of quality and utility.
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Ruger announced that they'll be selling their AR lowers. I think it was $129 for a stripped lower.
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Rastus... I added the Midwest Industries fore end just before the 2014 Area 6 match as I wanted a smaller diameter off hand grip, so it is a couple of years old now...mine is short, it does not cover the railed gas block, as I wasn't sure I would put the off set front sight on the fore end or the gas block... at the time MI had a good reputation and was somewhat less expensive than others... since then I haven't kept up with what is available... the barrel nut is proprietary and comes with a special spanner to install... like I commented, it appears to be a very solid system with the alignment ears and cap screw pinch lock...I haven't been shooting the 5.56 gun as much as the 9mm PCC and .22 conversion on my SBR... the PCC and .22 upper have the YHM fore ends....regards
pic of the short 9 1/2" .22 for my SBR.... I like the look of the YHM solid fore ends for the shorter guns... shown without a charging handle and bolt as I'm still converting from the 16" .22... switching sights around on the PCC
(http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/LesSnyder/001_zpskagnki3s.jpg) (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/LesSnyder/media/001_zpskagnki3s.jpg.html)
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Ruger announced that they'll be selling their AR lowers. I think it was $129 for a stripped lower.
Sportsman's Guide has them for $100.... ($90 for members)...limited quantities (3000 units) over the next few months.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/ruger-ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-multi-caliber?p=e648n&i=689514&ecid=Email-e648n&utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=e648n&om_u=NshXQZ&om_i=_BYNafuB9VYq-hg&em_id=chuck.goins%40yahoo.com
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Sportsman's Guide has them for $100.... ($90 for members)...limited quantities (3000 units) over the next few months.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/ruger-ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-multi-caliber?p=e648n&i=689514&ecid=Email-e648n&utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=e648n&om_u=NshXQZ&om_i=_BYNafuB9VYq-hg&em_id=chuck.goins%40yahoo.com
That's better. I thought $129 sounded high.
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Midwest Industries products are GTG. I've been to their store front to purchase my BCM and other products. I met the owner in person. The business model and product quality is second to none. I just wish he was closer to my end of the state, I would be beating his door down to work for him. If you ever get near their store stop in and just try to get out the door without buying something, I dare you. ( While your there get yourself some Dang! butterscotch root beer. I think they still have a cooler they sell that from. Another great small WI hometown business.)
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Sportsman's Guide has them for $100.... ($90 for members)...limited quantities (3000 units) over the next few months.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/ruger-ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-multi-caliber?p=e648n&i=689514&ecid=Email-e648n&utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=e648n&om_u=NshXQZ&om_i=_BYNafuB9VYq-hg&em_id=chuck.goins%40yahoo.com
Scares me when you read the review, and someone who is buying it rates it with fives, but only a three overall, and they leave a comment about not understanding what calibers an AR15 is for.
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Scares me when you read the review, and someone who is buying it rates it with fives, but only a three overall, and they leave a comment about not understanding what calibers an AR15 is for.
One of those internet gurus, like me... :o :o :o :o :o
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Doris - "Great price. Unsure of exactly what calipers it uses as add doesn't seem to specify." Doris doesn't understand multi-caliber. Or spell check. ::)
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Doris - "Great price. Unsure of exactly what calipers it uses as add doesn't seem to specify." Doris doesn't understand multi-caliber. Or spell check. ::)
Ha ha...
Don't be like Doris.
;D