The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: adamk222 on August 25, 2008, 02:15:20 PM
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ok ive been shoting my whole life but mostly rifles.well my buddy want me to go shot comps. with him and the only pistols ive ever owned are 22s so now im looking for a pistol and im thinking 1911 just becuse thay look good have a tun of options for custimization and are reliable.he seems to think i should git a glock and i have to say ive shot several of them and havent liked what ive seen.just dont like the fact that its dao and the triger pull feels like s@#ti think its from years of revolvers and simi-auto 22s.a gun just dont feel right to me unless it has a hammer.any thoughts?any brand i should look at first?
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well u have kimber, springfield, para, colt, taurus, and a few others that i dont know to well.. i myself own prefer springfields to the others but thats just me, i have the springfield champion(4" model) its not my favorite gun but it is a pretty slick running gun... i know people who swear by the kimbers, and others who wont buy anything but colt. para is pretty reliable, and from what i hear the taurus is affordable, dependable, and accurate...
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go with your gut...
Its also helpful to rent them both, shoot them, then make up your mind.
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It all depends on how much money you are willing to part with. There are some really good deals on some decent guns. You just have to look and do a little research and leg work.
When all is said and done, buy the best you can afford and still be able to afford to shoot it.
Good Luck... 8)
As we used to say at the race track, "Speed costs money.....How fast do you wanna go?"
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u mentioned a hammered fired pistol.... take a look at beretta, they have hammers, are super reliable, and u get a lot of options for customizations for them
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Like TAB said, go with your gut. I like the Colt 1911s, but I am not familiar with the other ones. Pretty sure they are good ones. Shot a SIG 220 (I think), ok but kind of boring. Had Beretta 92s, very boring plus they were 9MM. Have fun choosing.
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Those that mention cost...
I just picked up a almost virgin 70s series colt for $450. I've seen several colts( and some onther makes) in great shape for less then the cost of a new glock. So cost is not really an issue.
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Go to a indoor range and shoot a few guns, this way you get a feel for the right one for you
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Go to a indoor range and shoot a few guns, this way you get a feel for the right one for you
+1 on that, also SIZE does matter, full size, compact, sub- compact, do you want to carry it? Either brand makes big and smaller versions.
Glock is removed from holster and trigger pulled. 1911 is either cocked and locked, manually cocked, or racked. Your personal exp. will matter on what your comfortable with.
I think Hawkfish is lurking,...... ;) I own an M+P .40(similiar to a "G" pistol in features), and several 1911's. Each one has its own merits.
So,..... get both. ;D
Good Shooting, try as many as you can.
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1911,1911,1911,1911, oh did I mention 1911.
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1st, never go with your gut on a firearm, second, what kind of competition do you intend to play? A single stack 1911, is a great pistol, but if shooting IDPA or USPSA, they may have a class for it, but your gonna reload a hell of alot more than the others.
Of course High cap 1911's are available, The Para p14 is good and reasonably priced, available in single action or Light double action, you can have Glocks from 10 to 17 rounds depending on caliber. Glocks and 1911's have tons of accessories available. But if your just going to play some games, tell Me which games to get you closer to your goal. Since you like revolvers, depending on the game, an 8 shot S&W may be better suited.
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You really opened a can of worms here..... I have a feeling this is going to be a very popular thread.
I think everyone knows my vote....
I'll get into the discussion once it gets a little more heated in here! ;D
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I vote for the Glock but get whichever makes you happy. Heck get one of each.
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If only Glock made a 1911...but then what would people argue about? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
See topic 'When is Glock going to Evolve?':
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=2105.0
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If only Glock made a 1911...but then what would people argue about? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
We'd find SOMETHING ;D
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Glock/1911, Mac/PC, Republican/Democrat, Nikon/Canon. It's all fun to listen to.
Definitely mac!
Ahh, Glocks and 1911s, those are some nice dreams. They are both excellent. The Glocks are pretty rough compared to some of the nicer BBQ 1911's out there, but Glocks weren't meant to be pretty. They are excellent fighters right out of the tupper-box. 1911's are often considered the ultimate fighting handgun, but anyone will tell you that to remain that way, they need a lot more love/maintenance.
Ask the guys at shooting ranges, where many samples of guns are rented, which guns take the torturre and always come out on top. They will generally tell you Glock, even when they don't like them. I love Glocks, I also don't mind performing the maintenance on a 1911. And in another post I saw people complain about takedown on Ruger Mark II type pistols, and I am also down for taking them apart just out admiration for the genius behind their design too.
I think that you'll be happy with either choice and no matter what you pick, you'll want the other to keep it company. Don't we kind of want at least 1 of every gun anyway?
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well... well... Isn't this an interesting post? ::) I'll make it simply.. Get the 1911! :o....
lol, na get whatever makes your happy! I am too biased in favor of Glock to recommed what for you to get. :) If you want to learn more about Glock you can read some of my other posts. For some reason I have a lot of posts on here about Glocks. I think they are good for so many reasons. Others love 1911's. Both are excellent weapons. It really comes down to a variety of factors and each has their own benefits. I'll leave it at that. 8)
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git 'em both
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well... well... Isn't this an interesting post? ::) I'll make it simply.. Get the 1911! :o....
lol, na get whatever makes your happy! I am too biased in favor of Glock to recommed what for you to get. :) If you want to learn more about Glock you can read some of my other posts. For some reason I have a lot of posts on here about Glocks. I think they are good for so many reasons. Others love 1911's. Both are excellent weapons. It really comes down to a variety of factors and each has their own benefits. I'll leave it at that. 8)
Hawkfish, you just made intardweb history... that is the 1st time a glock fan has ever "bowed out" of a should I get a glock or something else thread. ;D
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Since I don't own a Glock (but I do own an SR9- silly me...) I'm really not qualified to weigh in, except to say, that if you plan on spending a lot of time with the pistol....I really enjoy my 1911- can't find enough reasons to hold it, clean it, etc. With the price of 45 acp I just don't get to play with it enough.
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I would suggest a Glock 19 for you , for many reasons. ;D
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Oh, wait, did I say 1911 already?
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Life is short, get'em both, I did. ;D
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Get the one that looks and more importantly, FEELS best to YOU, You will shoot better with a pistol you are comfortable with. Then get PROFESSIONAL instruction. You can always get the other one at a later date along with a .357 revolver ;D
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Get the one that looks and more importantly, FEELS best to YOU, You will shoot better with a pistol you are comfortable with. Then get PROFESSIONAL instruction. You can always get the other one at a later date along with a .357 revolver ;D
…and a .357! Get all 3!
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I put this on another thread but it also would belong in here. This why I think I have been such a fan of Glocks, and why my first civilian handgun that I ever purchased was a Glock.
I voted Glock of course as I stated before I how I feel about it in a fighting application.
I was wondering does anyone feel that the votes could be affected by age. I am not saying every vote is affected by this, there are exceptions to every rule. But if you are older, say over 40 maybe even 50, are you more bias towards the 1911 cause that is what you have shot for longer, and maybe that is what you grew up with hearing about its superiority.
Just as I have grown up with Glocks being the top dog. I am 26 and since I have been old enough to understand what a fighting gun is, or what a gun that LE or professionals choose has been Glock. Every polymer gun has been compared to or tried to compete with the Glock and since Polymer has been the new thing that has taken handguns into the 21st century am I more conditioned to choose the Glock as the ultimate fighting handgun. Just as my father's generation has been exposed to the 1911 or even the .357 revolver.
Just a thought, but do you think maybe I am on to something here? Is this maybe why Glock and 1911 seem to be always going head to head. My generation, and guys alittle older than me, have really just been able to get into the gun community and defensive handgun world, do to the age you must be to own a handgun. In another 20 years will there be another gun that goes up against these two. And those will be popular cause the kids growing up now are being exposed to it. Like maybe the FNP series or Sig 220's or XD's. I know those are all popular now but maybe something new will be the the big gun to compare to Glocks and 1911's in the future.
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Getting back to the original question and actually trying to help this guy.....
If you have shot a Glock and don't like the trigger then stay away from them. You mentioned revolvers and 22s. I'm guessing that your 22s are either revolvers or revolvers and signal action autos. Either way, I'd recommend you find a way to try out at 1911 at a range that rents guns. Once you've shot one you'll know if it has potential for you. Invest in what feels/shoot right in your hands.
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Way back when, I did a lot of revolver shooting. If Glock had been around and I had transitioned from revo to Glock I probably would have been OK. It wasn't, so I went with the 1911. I'm looking to pick up a revo for IDPA and then maybe a Glock. Don't like the finger grooves and might have to change out the sights but the ones I've shot are OK. Both have a big following. Even thou I am a big 1911 fan shoot them both and see which you like best then buy both and practice, practice, practice!
Richard
PS: Get both in 9mm because ammo is cheaper.
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I put this on another thread but it also would belong in here. This why I think I have been such a fan of Glocks, and why my first civilian handgun that I ever purchased was a Glock.
I voted Glock of course as I stated before I how I feel about it in a fighting application.
I was wondering does anyone feel that the votes could be affected by age. I am not saying every vote is affected by this, there are exceptions to every rule. But if you are older, say over 40 maybe even 50, are you more bias towards the 1911 cause that is what you have shot for longer, and maybe that is what you grew up with hearing about its superiority.
I'm a little over 40 and I remember still being in high school and hearing about the evil Glock plastic pistols that could go through the metal detectors at the airport. that was all bull, but I have 2 Glocks (22 & 23) that are ready to defend my family at all times. My first gun was my graduation present from high school. It is a 6 inch 686 .357. That's what my wife prefers now.
Age doesn't seem to matter at the range I go to. There are young and old in each camp and most like both.
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I love Glocks, but if you don't like them, they aren't for you. I'm about to buy a new Dan Wesson CBOB in .45. It's a great 1911. Give that one a look.
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Frogger! Welcome to the forum!
Like others have said, both "can be" great handguns. It comes down to what you like in your hand that matters. For myself, I would prefer a 1911 (or a SIG or a Browning HP) over a Glock. While I agree that Glocks are superb handguns, they are just not for me.
My 2¢ on buying any gun is based on four things:
1) Function - Which includes reliability and how the gun fits or feels.
2) Accuracy - "Only accurate firearms are interesting".
3) Purpose - Does this firearm have the platform and capability to exceed at the purpose I need it for?
4) How the gun looks - No reason why an investment in a firearm shouldn't be aesthetically pleasing.
Good luck with your choice!
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Buy the GLOCK
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go with your gut... Its also helpful to rent them both, shoot them, then make up your mind.
First said, best said.
git 'em both
That's what I did. ;D
Like others have said, both "can be" great handguns. It comes down to what you like in your hand that matters. For myself, I would prefer a 1911 (or a SIG or a Browning HP) over a Glock. While I agree that Glocks are superb handguns, they are just not for me.
My 2¢ on buying any gun is based on four things:
1) Function - Which includes reliability and how the gun fits or feels.
2) Accuracy - "Only accurate firearms are interesting".
3) Purpose - Does this firearm have the platform and capability to exceed at the purpose I need it for?
4) How the gun looks - No reason why an investment in a firearm shouldn't be aesthetically pleasing.
Very well said. It's a very personal thing. It must fit your hand, your shooting method, and your budget, be comfortable enough to carry and shoot, and appeal to you.
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I love 1911's!! I have (3) a STI Sparrtan 5" , a kimber eclips 3" , and akimber eclips 5" custom shop. I love ALL . There is a lot of good info on glocks. And they are good guns with out question!! I do not have a glock! my brother and two of my best friends do! I will get my first stricker gun a spring field armory XDM in 9mm, and a ruger SR9. no glocks for this guy!!! safety issues!!!! Do your research!!! safety first!!! I carry my 3" kimber eclips 1911 in chambered in .45. ;)
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I love 1911's!! I have (3) a STI Sparrtan 5" , a kimber eclips 3" , and akimber eclips 5" custom shop. I love ALL . There is a lot of good info on glocks. And they are good guns with out question!! I do not have a glock! my brother and two of my best friends do! I will get my first stricker gun a spring field armory XDM in 9mm, and a ruger SR9. no glocks for this guy!!! safety issues!!!! Do your research!!! safety first!!! I carry my 3" kimber eclips 1911 in chambered in .45. ;)
Glock safety issues ??? Last time I checked the SR9 was RECALLED for safety issues and still isn't right (ask Jay). The Glocks that have had issues, a lot of those were ammo problems not directly tied to the guns. The guns functioned properly and actually blew out the extractor minimizing the injury to the shooter. Happened to me personally, bad FACTORY reloaded ammo had a case seperate and the extractor blew out. I got a small scratch on my hand instead of the gun coming apart.
If your complaint is about the lack of external safety, the best safety for it is KEEP YOUR FINGER AWAY FROM THE TRIGGER. Only one model of the XD and M&P have safeties, then only the version built for outdated military requirements that say they have to have an external safety even though they have been shooting pistols without safeties for years (Sig P228/M11)
I have both a 1911 and Glocks (17/23) and have used them for IDPA and USPSA matches and practice with them when I can. I like the feel of the 1911 a little better but shoot the Glocks better. Probably due to the sights on the 1911 being crappy and I use the Glocks more since the 17 is the wife's and its always at the range with us. Go with feeling and get something you like. There are 1911s out there in the same price raange as a Glock that are pretty good (STI Spartan, Taurus PT1911, or if you look hard enough a used Springfield or Para)
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Glock vs 1911- this question only comes around every .028 seconds or so in gun shops across the country. I love my 1911, and wouldn't be without at least one; however, light weight, high cap., and reliability virtues have to be looked at. I am a CCW guy, so a Glock fits the bill much of the time. The 1911 is great, but let's face it, it will pull your pants down without a really good belt and rig. In its natural form, it has 7 to 8 rounds, and we'll keep our fingers crossed that it will feed the wild man-stoppers we've stuffed in it. Personally, I have found that most 1911 can be made to feed anything, but once you've went though all the tweeking, it's still hard to know without a shadow of a doubt that the thing won't choke on you. The Glock has a better rep. for eating anything you put in it. The Glock will bring 14 to 15 rounds to the fight. I won't compare accuracy because they can both be tack drivers, and in a defence situation, accuracy isn't everything. On the range a 2 inch group at 25 yards is fun, but in a fight, being off an inch or two at five yards won't matter. The Glock has a lot in the way of blessings, but we pay for it in other areas. It's ugly, it's plastic ( not really ), it has some kind of voodoo magic striker system, when it goes bang you feel the whole process thoughout your body. At the end of the day, you have to ask "why do I need the thing". Once you have that nailed down, pick the one that fills the need. For me, I want to look at my 1911, but I want to carry my Glock. If you want to wrap your mind around a whole new question, consider a snubby in .357 mag for a carry gun. That will keep your gears turning for a month or so.
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SO has the OP bought both yet???? ;D
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I still say git 'em both but so far haven't got a Glock. Even with a plastic frame it's actually a little heavier than an alloy frame 1911 with the same barrel length and high magazine capacity, if the manufacturers listed specs are right. It's not enough to determine whether your pants fall down or not. A Glock 21 13+1 .45 with a 4.6" barrel is 26.28 ounces. An alloy framed Para Big Hawg 14+1 .45 with a 5" barrel is 28 ounces, 1.72 ounces more than the Glock. If you put a 4.25" barrel and slide on it, then it would weigh 24 ounces, 2.28 ounces less than the Glock and still hold 1 more round in the mag. The weight of these guns is so close it's not even an issue for me. I think you should get a Glock, a 1911, a .357 magnum, a 12 gauge shotgun, and an AR-15 or similar rifle, a .22 pistol, and .22 rifle.
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FWIW, ATF is dropping Sigs for Glocks for duty guns.
Mac.
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With the number of LEOs that are carrying Glocks and even more getting them they can't be too bad.
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I havent read every single reply on here so what I am about to say could just be repeat. From what I did read though there is some good advice that I would like to point out. Get to a range that has rentals, rent a 1911, most new 1911's come with a flat mainspring housing, (older 1911's come with arched, now it is a preference) so any brand will do as long as you make sure that it is the size you want. If you are looking at a commander size rent it, full size government rent it, then rent a glock, really caliber is up to you noone can make that choice, but again get the size you want. If want a Compact size (19) or full size (21,17) then rent it as well.
Glocks and 1911's are two very different handling, ergonomic, fit, finish, trigger, and weight pieces of machinery. with the 1911 you will be shooting center mast and then pick up the Glock and you will shoot high. It just happens. But you want to do a side by side with them and see which one you are functioning better. You have to remember that, with practice, both of these you need to be able to operate blind, but it still needs to be natural fitting. Yes all guns fit different. Most likely when you do this comparison you are going to find out if you are Glock guiy or 1911 guy. Basically you will learn if you are going to be the guy that votes Glock or 1911 when the "which is better" thread comes up again, and it will.
From here I suggest the next day or week or whenever you get to the range again. You rent one of them. Shoot it solely cause like I said when you transition back and forth in a side by side comparison you will shoot one low most likely and on high, which will make you feel that one of them is not as acurate. Not true, just your muscle memory and brain is messing with you. But by the time you get to this stage you will most likely have one that you favor this is just reassurance and a deciding factor. Of course then go to the range the next day or whenever, I suggest you go seperate days so you are not comfortable with one while you start to shoot the other, and shoot the other gun solely.
These two guns are really the "Cornor Stones" of Auto-pistols. It seems that they are the base that most other guns of there type are compared to. i.e. Strikers (XD) are always compared to Glock, and Steel framed hammer pistols (S&W 4506), and everything in between, are always compared to 1911's. I beleive that every gun safe should have both of these guns in them, more leniency to not having to be Striker Fire type pistol (Glock) persay but a polymer duty pistol is a must(XD, FNP(non-striker but falls in the catagory), M&P). I believe being able to handle both a Glock and 1911 well, will give you an advantage to any gun you pick up. But everyone seems to lean towards one or the other in favortism.
In the end my opinion is a Glock. I have stated more than once on here my reasons why and why I think more people Closer to my age choose them as well. I got permission from my Cpt. overseas to carry a 19 with me. So I became very familiar with it. But since I have been home and able to get into the civilian side of shooting and owning my own handguns, I have worked hard to get as comfortable with my Kimber Desert Warrior. I still lean towards the Glock but have no second thoughts on walking out my door with the 1911. So I hope this helps alittle. I kinda just got into putting down my thoughts here and it got long so, sorry about that :), but I hope there info you might find useful.
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Good points, Ksail...it boils down to what is going to work for you. I don't have any Glocks, but like YOU said about your Glocks vs 1911, I feel equally as comfortable with either my 1911 or my Sig 9mm. They work differently, the Sig being DA/SA. Also, I can't carry here in NJ, but for home defense I'm equally as comfortable with either. I do tend toward the 1911 for the .45 caliber, but I could get into the fight just as quickly with either.
Now when my wife gets to pick the watchdog, she always grabs her S&W 686 7 shot. There's no guesswork there either.
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Good points, Ksail...it boils down to what is going to work for you. I don't have any Glocks, but like YOU said about your Glocks vs 1911, I feel equally as comfortable with either my 1911 or my Sig 9mm. They work differently, the Sig being DA/SA. Also, I can't carry here in NJ, but for home defense I'm equally as comfortable with either. I do tend toward the 1911 for the .45 caliber, but I could get into the fight just as quickly with either.
Now when my wife gets to pick the watchdog, she always grabs her S&W 686 7 shot. There's no guesswork there either.
(http://images.outdoorinteractive.net/mgen/508198_d.jpg)
I stand by my original post ;)..... although it was deleted.
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There's nothing like a good hat.
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There was an old saying I used to use on the wife when we were farming - Honest, all I did was buy the hat and they threw the $100,000 combine in as a bonus! I had forgotten that one. Maybe I should start buying some gun hats ::)
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There is no comparing these two. The Glock is a gun that WORKS with incredible reliability and the 1911 is a gun you tinker with. If you want a defensive hand gun go with what works, Glock. I just sold my 1911 this month and bought a Glock 30sf .45 and LOVE it. No comparison. I did not need a project, I needed something I could rely on to protect my children. Enough said.
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With the number of LEOs that are carrying Glocks and even more getting them they can't be too bad.
yeah that would have nothing to do with the fact that they were the lowest bidder... I have no doubts that larger departments are getting them in low 300s. Like it or not, but cost is often the biggest determing factor on what is issued to officers.
I'd also like to point out that in the last 5 years, all but one of LEA with in 25 miles of me have droped glocks for other things.
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There is no comparing these two. The Glock is a gun that WORKS with incredible reliability and the 1911 is a gun you tinker with. If you want a defensive hand gun go with what works, Glock. I just sold my 1911 this month and bought a Glock 30sf .45 and LOVE it. No comparison. I did not need a project, I needed something I could rely on to protect my children. Enough said.
You just didn't get the right 1911, mines got 1500 flawless rounds through it and all I did was change the grips, and put yellow nail polish on the front sight, total investment not counting Ammo, 376.95. Rock Island rocks ;D
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M+P's have become popular in LEO dept's. (I'm partial to mine) ;D, Also,
You just didn't get the right 1911, mines got 1500 flawless rounds through it and all I did was change the grips, and put yellow nail polish on the front sight, total investment not counting Ammo, 376.95. Rock Island rocks ;D
Very True. I have 2 1911's, 1 is "tweaked" by choice and has no issues at all. The other is stock and like tombogan mentions, cleaning and grips is all I've ever done to my other 1911, and it will shoot all day with any ammo. Certainly not a "project" superheat. Welcome to the forum.
The G pistols are great. some love em', some don't. As I mentioned previously, personal choice is paramount to these two pistols.
Try them both, and feel good about either one.
PS the "both" concept is always nice. 8)
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1911 ;D
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BOTH 1911 safe queen ,GLOCK potential evidence locker . ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The only difference between the 2 that would REALLY matter is trigger, SA 1911/DA Glock.
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Thanks for all the civil discourse. Its nice to have a conversation about two wonderful pistols. I know this is Michael Banes forum and I guess everyone might lean his way on the 1911 issue. When John Moses Browning designed the 1911 he must have had divine intervention. In the '80s Glock raised the bar from the status quo. I believe BOTH are wonderful guns. The fact that a gun design that is coming upon its 100th year birthday is utterly amazing. And rightfully so that the topic is only these two guns. They are the cream of the crop. All guns are mechanical devices and subject to failure. That being said. The plusses of the glock must be at least acknowledged. 1. simplicity, if someone has never shot a handgun they can be proficient very quickly. K.I.S.S. magizine, slide, trigger. 2. Reliability, If you have a 1911 that is reliable, GREAT. If you took 5 new Glock's and 5 random new 1911s and just tested them for reliability I would bet a lot of money one of those 1911's will puke within a 1000 rounds and some will be flawless. The glocks will run and run. 3. If you need parts they are interchangeable. A lot of 1911's are hand fit. Sift through 50 parts to find one that fits correctly. I doubt the average shooter has that ability. I will buy another 1911 but It will take some convincing for me to carry one.
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Thank you Superheat, its always nice to have someone jump in with both feet and stand up for their personal opinion on a firearm to be discussed and debated on IMHO the best forum to do so.
That being said, the Michael Bane reference to a slighted 1911 preference shows your lack of awareness to the diversity of this forum. Respectfully, MB has previously posted on a number of caliber platforms that are suitable for the application of the owner, and an endorsement of many other than the 1911.
After all its the owner that buys (with hard earned money), the caliber and pistol that suits them best.
I own a Kel-Tec P3AT in .380 to a S&W .460 XVR. with many in between. All suit the application they are designed for. Concealed carry, target, comp, etc,....
Again, Glocks have a no holds barred rep for simplicity, form and reliability. The 1911 has been around much longer, with torture tests that have been tried and tried again before Glocks were even on a design table.
Yes, certain brands dropped the ball. Just like other name brand manufacturers who did as well.
Glocks had "blow ups" previously posted on this forum at length, don't get too caught up in the hype..
Thanks again for your input, don't bash a platform that "SET" the status quo that others follow to this day.
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I picked up a thought from twyacht. This comparison is between a Glock (a specific "tupperware" gun - no insult intended) vs. a generic 1911. Since Glock became popular many companies have jumped on board with their own variations of this gun. There are 1911's that are reliable masterpieces second to none, and there are 1911's that are a waste of the scrap metal that was recycled to make them.
I would prefer a comparison of a Glock to a certain quality level of 1911's produced. Or a comparison of the design and function of the poly gun to the 1911 design.
Maybe I'm headed the wrong direction here, but I have been exposed to just as many different 1911's (caliber, quality, finish, etc.) as I have poly guns.
Myself, I shoot a couple different 1911's, a 2011, Springfield XD, Baretta 9000, and have owned a couple other polies, and shot a couple of S&W M&P's. Most have all been very good guns, but the poly guns have all driven me nuts trying to find the thumb safety. My mind just likes that item. Not that the others aren't safe or good, but different, and every poly gun I have shot had that flaw (as I call it because it is an item I feel most comfortable shooting).
Bottom line - Buy what you feel most comfortable with, because my fetish for thumb safeties might be a pet peeve of yours.
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Well said m58. Buy what suits you best, there all good. Know your gun. Insult taken, polymer gun would be more accurate. I guess if the topic was a specific 1911 it would be easier to quantify. like a kimber custom vs. a glock 21.
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Well said m58. Buy what suits you best, there all good. Know your gun. Insult taken, polymer gun would be more accurate. I guess if the topic was a specific 1911 it would be easier to quantify. like a kimber custom vs. a glock 21.
want to explain that statement?
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.....put yellow nail polish on the front sight, total investment not counting Ammo, 376.95. Rock Island rocks ;D
I'll be looking for Rock Island at the Wannamacher's Gun Show in Tulsa this November. It was a really good deal, eh Tom? MB mentioned them and spoke highly of them in a podcast.
If everything goes bad on November 4th, the show is on the 8th and 9th and I'll be hocking something to put back 2 or 3 of them for the long winter.
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If Glock is the best plastic-frame pistol, and you compare it to the worst 1911 made, then Glock is better. If you compare the best 1911 made to the worst plastic-framed pistol, the 1911 is better. If you compare the best of each, they're both good.
I personally haven't had a really bad 1911, but 1 out of 6 did need some work, which was free of charge with free return shipping. And I don't own any plastic-frame pistols, yet. But on the forum where people own all makes and models of pistols, the ones that I hear all the complaints about are plastic-framed. That doesn't mean all plastic-framed pistols are bad, and one 1911 not measuring up doesn't make all of them bad either.
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I am a firm believer of shoot compilations with what you carry. It is excellent training with your carry gun. If you do not carry or just want to win then you can build up any gun. I would suggest you go to a few compilations and check out what others are using and having problems with to give you some ideas.
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You know, we're working on THE BEST DEFENSE, and I had a long discussion on guns with my co-hosts, Rob Pincus and Michael Janich. Both of them have a lot of experience and, independently of each other, we all reached the decision to be less "gun-centric" in the self-defense series. Our rationales were similar — the current crop of firearms, especially what we might term "service semiautos," are maybe the most reliable, most accurate firearms ever made. And while each of us has guns we like better than others, it would be incorrect to say that gun is "better" or "best" over a different variety.
Obviously, I'm "Old Skool" — I come from the Jeff Cooper Planet of the 1911s. Because of practical competition, I have vastly more rounds through 1911 platform pistols than any other guns and my hands (for lack of a better word) "remember" 1911s. OTOH, I accept that the 1911 system has some significant drawbacks — a complex manual of arms when compared to a revolver or a modern service pistol, the often-times necessity to "tweak" the gun, etc. I'm uncomfortable with any single-action system in off-body carry (bag, purse, briefcase), even though I've never heard of a single incident with one going "bang" at the wrong time. Still, I believe in Murphy, and I've demonstrated to my own satisfaction that you can knock the safety off an SA gun and pull the trigger (same with a striker-fired gun). Not the case with a DA trigger system (I'll give a tentative pass on striker-fired guns with a separate manual safety). Your results may differ...objects in the rear-view mirror...etc.
While we were shooting the firearms drill section of TBD, we had about 8 or 9 guns on the table and we used them interchangeably.
How do you plan to carry it? How much do you plan to shoot it? Are you going to compete with it? What's your experience level? How sensitive are you to recoil (which is a function of rounds shot, to be fair)? What systems — SA, DA/SA, striker-fired, DAO, light/precocked DA, DA revolver — are you most comfortable with? If you are going to be carrying the gun, how does it work with your own body configurations and lifestyle? What do you like?
A lot of the "huge" differences in handgun systems are largely in gun writers' imaginations and paid shooter endorsements...and I am certainly not without sin on either point!!!
If tomorrow Mars, God of War told me I had to spend the next year carrying a vintage Sheriffs Model Colt Single Action Army in .45 Colt instead of my Carry 9 or any of the other modern guns I've carried, I'd pretty much shrug and order a holster...tooled leather, of course.
Michael B
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You know, we're working on THE BEST DEFENSE, and I had a long discussion on guns with my co-hosts, Rob Pincus and Michael Janich. Both of them have a lot of experience and, independently of each other, we all reached the decision to be less "gun-centric" in the self-defense series. Our rationales were similar — the current crop of firearms, especially what we might term "service semiautos," are maybe the most reliable, most accurate firearms ever made. And while each of us has guns we like better than others, it would be incorrect to say that gun is "better" or "best" over a different variety.
Obviously, I'm "Old Skool" — I come from the Jeff Cooper Planet of the 1911s. Because of practical competition, I have vastly more rounds through 1911 platform pistols than any other guns and my hands (for lack of a better word) "remember" 1911s. OTOH, I accept that the 1911 system has some significant drawbacks — a complex manual of arms when compared to a revolver or a modern service pistol, the often-times necessity to "tweak" the gun, etc. I'm uncomfortable with any single-action system in off-body carry (bag, purse, briefcase), even though I've never heard of a single incident with one going "bang" at the wrong time. Still, I believe in Murphy, and I've demonstrated to my own satisfaction that you can knock the safety off an SA gun and pull the trigger (same with a striker-fired gun). Not the case with a DA trigger system (I'll give a tentative pass on striker-fired guns with a separate manual safety). Your results may differ...objects in the rear-view mirror...etc.
While we were shooting the firearms drill section of TBD, we had about 8 or 9 guns on the table and we used them interchangeably.
How do you plan to carry it? How much do you plan to shoot it? Are you going to compete with it? What's your experience level? How sensitive are you to recoil (which is a function of rounds shot, to be fair)? What systems — SA, DA/SA, striker-fired, DAO, light/precocked DA, DA revolver — are you most comfortable with? If you are going to be carrying the gun, how does it work with your own body configurations and lifestyle? What do you like?
A lot of the "huge" differences in handgun systems are largely in gun writers' imaginations and paid shooter endorsements...and I am certainly not without sin on either point!!!
If tomorrow Mars, God of War told me I had to spend the next year carrying a vintage Sheriffs Model Colt Single Action Army in .45 Colt instead of my Carry 9 or any of the other modern guns I've carried, I'd pretty much shrug and order a holster...tooled leather, of course.
Michael B
Comment of the day award!
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I like the one,s I hit with 1 Kimber Pro tle/rl & 2 Glock 22 40S&W.
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It's my first post here on the forum, and I definitely have some input for the person who asked the question. However, doesn't anyone else think it's odd that he/she has ONE post on this forum, and it's potentially flammable? Trolling is easy in the Glock vs. 1911 debate. ::)
Let's assume the poster asked in earnest. I'm just optimistic enough to believe in the goodness of people. ;)
The poster mentioned competition shooting, I believe. If you're going to shoot competition, what type? IDPA/USPSA are by far the most popular, so assuming that, you've got some choices. I've been shooting both for about 9 years now, incidentally, and I shoot between 12 and 15 thousand rounds a year, so I can attest to handgun reliability. I have both a Glock and a 2011 (Infinity variant of the 1911 in .40 S&W). Both are great guns, both are as reliable as they are different. I've personally participated in 2 "Glock vs. 1911" reliability competitions where everyone fired 1000 rounds in one day through their platform of choice. Glock won 1 year, 1911 another year. So much for science.
If you're learning how to shoot handguns, I've found the Glock is a great teaching/learning platform for fundamentals. Grip, sight alignment, taking up the slack, breaking the shot, etc. are easier to teach and learn on the Glock. Drawing a handgun from a holster and preparing to shoot on the move is a new skill for shooters new to competition - let's just say I've seen fewer ADs with Glocks. Ditto for reloads on the move.
For competition, a Glock 35 (.40 S&W) is a great choice for both sports, as you can shoot in IDPA's ESP or SSP divisions (see the rules for specifics). You can also shoot the Glock 35 in USPSA's Production, Limited 10 or Limited divisions. IDPA limits rounds in the gun to 10. In USPSA Limited, you can get a mag extension and load up 19 rounds or so. More bullets, more fun!
Having said all that, I've been shooting the Infinity for a couple of years now, and probably won't go back. Single-action triggers are certainly more palatable than the Glock safe-action trigger. The grip angle is different between the 2 platforms, too. You have to roll your wrist a bit more with the Glock to get the same sight picture. I can put 20 rounds in the Infinity's double-stack magazine for Limited. I often think of the Glock as my "learning" gun. Of course, I get whipped regularly by a lot of Glock shooters - that Sevigny kid is pretty good. ;) Nonetheless, I think the Infinity lets me go pretty fast.
The Glock costs about $650 retail, the Infinity around $2500. Quite a difference there, but consider that I've been shooting them both in competition for several years - that should tell you they're both fine platforms. There are too many factors involved to attempt to foist an opinion of what's "better" with respect to your choice for handguns. As it has often been said, it ain't the car, it's the driver. Good luck on making a choice.
jr
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What ever toot's your bugle.
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It's my first post here on the forum, and I definitely have some input for the person who asked the question. However, doesn't anyone else think it's odd that he/she has ONE post on this forum, and it's potentially flammable? Trolling is easy in the Glock vs. 1911 debate. ::)
Let's assume the poster asked in earnest. I'm just optimistic enough to believe in the goodness of people. ;)
The poster mentioned competition shooting, I believe. If you're going to shoot competition, what type? IDPA/USPSA are by far the most popular, so assuming that, you've got some choices. I've been shooting both for about 9 years now, incidentally, and I shoot between 12 and 15 thousand rounds a year, so I can attest to handgun reliability. I have both a Glock and a 2011 (Infinity variant of the 1911 in .40 S&W). Both are great guns, both are as reliable as they are different. I've personally participated in 2 "Glock vs. 1911" reliability competitions where everyone fired 1000 rounds in one day through their platform of choice. Glock won 1 year, 1911 another year. So much for science.
If you're learning how to shoot handguns, I've found the Glock is a great teaching/learning platform for fundamentals. Grip, sight alignment, taking up the slack, breaking the shot, etc. are easier to teach and learn on the Glock. Drawing a handgun from a holster and preparing to shoot on the move is a new skill for shooters new to competition - let's just say I've seen fewer ADs with Glocks. Ditto for reloads on the move.
For competition, a Glock 35 (.40 S&W) is a great choice for both sports, as you can shoot in IDPA's ESP or SSP divisions (see the rules for specifics). You can also shoot the Glock 35 in USPSA's Production, Limited 10 or Limited divisions. IDPA limits rounds in the gun to 10. In USPSA Limited, you can get a mag extension and load up 19 rounds or so. More bullets, more fun!
Having said all that, I've been shooting the Infinity for a couple of years now, and probably won't go back. Single-action triggers are certainly more palatable than the Glock safe-action trigger. The grip angle is different between the 2 platforms, too. You have to roll your wrist a bit more with the Glock to get the same sight picture. I can put 20 rounds in the Infinity's double-stack magazine for Limited. I often think of the Glock as my "learning" gun. Of course, I get whipped regularly by a lot of Glock shooters - that Sevigny kid is pretty good. ;) Nonetheless, I think the Infinity lets me go pretty fast.
The Glock costs about $650 retail, the Infinity around $2500. Quite a difference there, but consider that I've been shooting them both in competition for several years - that should tell you they're both fine platforms. There are too many factors involved to attempt to foist an opinion of what's "better" with respect to your choice for handguns. As it has often been said, it ain't the car, it's the driver. Good luck on making a choice.
jr
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Even if the original poster was a Troll it's still a fun debate, something like THIS will not cause any hard feelings on THIS forum.
Heck, We (several of who own Glocks as well as other handguns) Like to pick on Hawkfish, (who slipped and mentioned he has handguns that are NOT Glocks ) about drinking the Black plastic Kool aide
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You really opened a can of worms here..... I have a feeling this is going to be a very popular thread.
I think everyone knows my vote....
I'll get into the discussion once it gets a little more heated in here! ;D
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You want "HEATED " Ericire ;D He'd be foolish to get a Glock OR a 1911 Wheel guns are REAL guns. ;D
Think THAT will light things up ;D
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You want "HEATED " Ericire ;D He'd be foolish to get a Glock OR a 1911 Wheel guns are REAL guns. ;D
Think THAT will light things up ;D
whats really fun is going to AR15.com and saying AKs are better then ARs. Thats always a roit.
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whats really fun is going to AR15.com and saying AKs are better then ARs. Thats always a roit.
For some applications they ARE ;D
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Hell, give me a S&W in .357 and an M1 Garand and you can have all the other sissy guns and calibers.
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Hell, give me a S&W in .357 and an M1 Garand and you can have all the other sissy guns and calibers.
Make it a .44 Redhawk and I'll join ya. ;)
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357 Python +1
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357 Python +1
I think it's crazy to use a gun in combat that is worth more than my life insurance policy ;D " I ain't diving for cover, the scratches will lower the resale value" ;D
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That's right...the gun you are forced to defend yourself with you won't SEE again for a long, long time, if ever.
It might as well be a Rossi 357 or a Charter. Can you imagine having to give up your Python to the cops?
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Python and Redhawk will do very nice.
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That's right...the gun you are forced to defend yourself with you won't SEE again for a long, long time, if ever.
It might as well be a Rossi 357 or a Charter. Can you imagine having to give up your Python to the cops?
Can't imagine giving ANY gun to the fuzz... at least, not by choice..
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A couple of crooked cops got my Dan Wesson .357 with a screw-on muzzle brake. :'(