The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Reloading => Topic started by: DeltaM on November 21, 2012, 03:01:32 PM
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I'm by no means an expert on reloading but have been at it now for little over 3 years, probably 11,000 rounds or so, mostly 9mm, .40. .38, .380 and .357 with the majority being 9 and .40 I've not made the jump to rifle rounds yet but plan to next spring. I have a Dillon 550B.
I know it isn't mandatory to use case lube with carbide dies but have been giving the cases a light spritz of Dillon case lube with the cases lying flat on a newspaper and sit for a couple hours prior to going in the press. It makes the cranking a bit easier. Most of my reloads are Berry's plated, Hornadys, and some lead for the wheel guns. Frankly, I'd rather pay a bit more for plated and clean guns less due to lead but that is another issue. I enjoy reloading almost as much as shooting, have a chronograph, etc.
On occasion, I run the loaded rounds through the tumbler with corncob media but haven't made a habit of it. Initial cleaning prior to reloading is soaking , then walnut media, then swab out the innards under a bright light with a toothpick and Q-tip.
Question, finally: Lately I've wondered if I need to clean all the reloads to remove the case lube before firing. Does case lube affect or build up unnecessarily?
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I use a spray on lube for my rifle cases and after sizing I just wipe them down with a shop type paper towel. I have never used it on my pistol cases. I would wonder about build up in the smaller sizing dies. I clean out my rifle dies every 100 cases or so. Just a thought.
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I don't lube when using carbide dies, but I do lube many of my loaded handgun cartridges. I give a light spray of silicon into a bag full of cartridges and keep it that way. I do this mainly with my open gun and my limited gun. However, I am not above doing it on my single stack and production before a match.
This practice does raise the importance of hygiene while shooting. I always carry baby wipes and a clean towel to wipe my hands after loading magazines, and ProGrip is handy as well.
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Question, finally: Lately I've wondered if I need to clean all the reloads to remove the case lube before firing. Does case lube affect or build up unnecessarily?
Some case lubes can. I wouldn't want that in my chamber. I imagine it could also raise pressures.
I don't lube pistol brass when using carbide but my rifle brass gets a shot of Hornady One Shot lube, then that gets removed by a towel with some alcohol on it.
on edit: this lube removal happens before priming and loading.
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Good point about the sizing die. I haven't given mine enough attention, only cleaning them when the brass gets a bright streak after sizing. I'll pay better attention.
I keep a pint of EverClear (like used in purple passions), 190 proof grain alcohol to clean my foam ear plugs. Isopropyl or rubbing alcohol is not recommended. I had swimmers ear years ago and a pharmacist told me to use EverClear followed by hydrogen peroxide to clear it up. I've found if I use the foam plugs over to many times without cleaning I end up with a type of otitis externa (like swimmers ear).
I'll use the EverClear to clean my dies and reloads too.
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I only lube rifle rounds. Put a little inside the neck to ease the expander. Don't de-prime. Then tumble to dry out the lube.
Run the rounds through a universal deprime die to remove primer.
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I have several gallons of solvent. When I have completed resizing, I put the cases into a mason jar (s), pour solvent over them, and shake the jar. This is for rifle cases, I use carbide cases for pistol brass.
I then take a large funnel, put a rag inside the funnel to stop the cases from going back into the can, and pour the solvent and cases into the rag. The rag catches the brass, and the solvent will go back into the can, minus a small amount of solvent.
I then will put the washed cases into a cardboard box large enough for the cases to lay flat in the box.
leave the box outside until the remaining solvent has evaporated. It will stink up the house, and is dangerous if it is flammable.
Do not use mineral spirits as a solvent.
When all the cases are dry, I throw them in my Lyman 2500 turbo cleaner, along with Lyman ground up "green" corncob.
After a little time, the cases are spotless, shiny, and look like new. I have a RCBS tumbler media separator which is excellent to separate the media from the cases.
I do have to check the primer pockets for small pieces stuck in the flash hole, but that is easy to remove with a small phillips screwdriver. Be sure that you do this, as a piece stuck in the flash hole can cause grief.
I read a very interesting article in I think the Handloader magazine about chemical residue building up in cases from polishing in a liquid media, sticking to the inside of the cases, and causing pressures to skyrocket. It was only with small cases like a 17 remington.
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I have several gallons of solvent. When I have completed resizing, I put the cases into a mason jar (s), pour solvent over them, and shake the jar. This is for rifle cases, I use carbide cases for pistol brass.
I then take a large funnel, put a rag inside the funnel to stop the cases from going back into the can, and pour the solvent and cases into the rag. The rag catches the brass, and the solvent will go back into the can, minus a small amount of solvent.
I then will put the washed cases into a cardboard box large enough for the cases to lay flat in the box.
leave the box outside until the remaining solvent has evaporated. It will stink up the house, and is dangerous if it is flammable.
Do not use mineral spirits as a solvent.
When all the cases are dry, I throw them in my Lyman 2500 turbo cleaner, along with Lyman ground up "green" corncob.
After a little time, the cases are spotless, shiny, and look like new. I have a RCBS tumbler media separator which is excellent to separate the media from the cases.
I do have to check the primer pockets for small pieces stuck in the flash hole, but that is easy to remove with a small phillips screwdriver. Be sure that you do this, as a piece stuck in the flash hole can cause grief.
I read a very interesting article in I think the Handloader magazine about chemical residue building up in cases from polishing in a liquid media, sticking to the inside of the cases, and causing pressures to skyrocket. It was only with small cases like a 17 remington.
What kind of solvent? Acetone is miscible in water. What about grain alcohol, denatured alcohol, or lacquer thinner? Of these I would think acetone would be the best but have no experience with anything but apple cider (1st choice) or lemon juice extract.
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You can learn something every day.
: capable of being mixed; specifically : capable of mixing in any ratio without separation of two phases <miscible liquids>
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Maybe I'm just being overly anal about my cases. I only load rifle rounds at this point, but moving into loading for my handguns soon. My process is probably WAY more than I need to do, but I like nice shiny brass. So here is the steps:
Run dirty brass through a tumbler designated for that purpose for a couple hours to get reasonably clean.
Light lube before decapping and resizing.
Trim, clean primer pocket and double check case length.
Into another tumbler for 8-10 hours
Out comes bright shiny and dry brass. Loads clean and cycles like butter.
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JC, So far I only load handgun, although with my first EBR I'm thinking of starting up some 223. If you're going from rifle to handgun you'll have to dumb down- it's a whole lot easier.
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That's what I have always been told. Truth is I don't shoot handgun enough. However with my GF shooting almost exclusively handgun, (and in the same caliber as mine) it might be time to start.
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Using lube in rifle carbide dies is a very smart idea. Even in carbide dies resizing fifle brass can become stuck. I even use a light amount of lube on pistol reloads. It won"t hurt and it beats getting brass stuck. I take off lube by tumbling the loaded rounds for a few hours.
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I do a light lube before decapping, then toss them in a ziplock. After decapping, I do not relube before trimming and resizing (yes I do it in 3 steps) but the residual lube on the cases from decapping has always been enough that resizing goes very smoothly. For sure it's a slow process, but when my rounds chamber and extract like butter it makes all the time worth it. Plus my brass is cleaner and shinier than factory. 8)
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I have a problem with leaving sizing lube on cartridges.
The normal sequence of firing a cartridge includes the expansion of the brass to grip the chamber walls.
When the high gas pressure declines, the brass snaps back a little to allow extraction.
When lube is left on the cartridge, it allows the brass to slide back against the bolt instead of being gripped by the chamber walls.
This causes a highly increased bolt thrust against the bolt face and locking lugs.
If you examine factory ammunition, you will find no residual sizing lube.
This is because they tumble the loaded cartridges a few minutes to remove the lubricant from the cartridges.
There is an Urban Legend about tumbling cartridges harming the powder and causing burn rate problems.
In real life this is of no real concern.
One of the people who post on one of the reloading blogs, (Geoff Beneze geoffb@beast-enterprises.com) performed an extended test that tumbled several different reloaded cartridges for several weeks.
Every several days a number of cartridges were removed from the tumbler.
Some of these were broken down to examine the powder, and the other were fired for velocity and function.
After several weeks with no perceptible changes in the cartridges, the test was ended.
You may want to contact Geoff for details of the test.
He is a very knowledgeable reloader.
In any case, I tumble all my reloads for about 15 minutes in new corncob material to remove sizing lube before packaging.
(I wear white cotton gloves to handle the freshly tumbled cartridges to keep them clean… Properly stored, the brass will stay bright for years.)
As for me, I’ve been reloading since 1962 and have been an NRA certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor for the last ten years.
However, for an expert opinion, I’ll defer to Geoff, but feel that his will agree with me on this.
Steve
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I agree totally with Steve's post above. Brass should be dry to engage the breech, and it will create very high forces on the bolt (that were never designed for) if the case slips in the breech. DANGEROUS.
Cases should always be clean & dry before they are chambered.
Also what's all this stuff about lubing cases to go into a carbide die? Carbide dies are used to obviate having to lube cases. I've never lubed a case that's going into a carbide die...and I've never had one stick or fail to extract from the die.
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Wait until you get a little older and you will appreciate a little less pressure needed to size (load) a large number of rounds! You do not need to lube pistol cases but it helps a lot. I have had no problems as a result of lubing pistol cases but YMMV.
FWIW
Richard
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I'm just getting around to using some of the reloading equipment given me by a couple of friends a few years back and some of those components I bought before Barry was elected the first time. So...I'm not very knowledgeable on this topic.
However, kudos to the new guys who posted on this thread. You all brought a lot to ponder and integrate into my practices.
Thanks,
Ken
Yeah, some of you regulars too..... ;)
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Wait until you get a little older and you will appreciate a little less pressure needed to size (load) a large number of rounds! You do not need to lube pistol cases but it helps a lot. I have had no problems as a result of lubing pistol cases but YMMV.
FWIW
Richard
I'm 66 and I have been shooting competitively (and therefore reloading) since I was 17. IHMSA in later years, but earlier in rimfire and military with 7.62, 5.56, trap....
I was a sniper.
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What about lead bullets? I've tried tumbling lead pistol rounds after reloading to remove case lube but the bullet gets all dingy looking. I'm not that hung up on looks but if some of the lead gets polished off and in my media the unknown amount of lead particles would be of concern. Media always creates a certain amount of dust when transferring from storage bin to tumbler. I'm sure I breathe more than I should. I don't want to look like a surgeon just to tumble loaded cartridges. I doubt any danger here but would feel better if someone who knew more had any advice.
Tumbled lead brass looks and feels better but lately I've just been rubbing the excess case lube off pistol rounds with a rag. Still, not as clean as tumbled.
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I'm by no means an expert on reloading but have been at it now for little over 3 years, probably 11,000 rounds or so, mostly 9mm, .40. .38, .380 and .357 with the majority being 9 and .40 I've not made the jump to rifle rounds yet but plan to next spring. I have a Dillon 550B.
I know it isn't mandatory to use case lube with carbide dies but have been giving the cases a light spritz of Dillon case lube with the cases lying flat on a newspaper and sit for a couple hours prior to going in the press. It makes the cranking a bit easier. Most of my reloads are Berry's plated, Hornadys, and some lead for the wheel guns. Frankly, I'd rather pay a bit more for plated and clean guns less due to lead but that is another issue. I enjoy reloading almost as much as shooting, have a chronograph, etc.
On occasion, I run the loaded rounds through the tumbler with corncob media but haven't made a habit of it. Initial cleaning prior to reloading is soaking , then walnut media, then swab out the innards under a bright light with a toothpick and Q-tip.
Question, finally: Lately I've wondered if I need to clean all the reloads to remove the case lube before firing. Does case lube affect or build up unnecessarily?
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When I first started reloading in the 70's I was told to never put loaded or primed cases in a tumbler. The reason? Impact in the the tumbler between two rounds possibly causing a primer to ignite, which could have quite devastating results. Now I grant that the likely hood of that happening is probably not high, but I try to keep the window closed as much as possible to potential problems. I just wipe my rounds with a clean cloth as a final step. I tried using solvents and that was the only time I ever had any misfires. Primers can be damaged by the solvent (and the lube it carries with it) seeping around the primer and the case. One of the prime reasons military brass has a sealer (and crimp) around the prime/case and around case and the bullet.
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Since I first made my inquiry, my Thumbler tumbler came in. I de-prime and size cases now prior to loading. With a little RCBS case cleaner in water and stainless steel pins, and a thorough rinse after cleaning, I have no need to clean lubed cases post loading.
I did call Dillon about cleaning loaded cases in their vibratory tumbler before my Thumbler came in. They said use a bit (1 tsp) of alcohol in clean corn cob media and tumble after loading with this. They did say it is necessary to remove any case lube as it inhibits proper friction of the brass with the chamber when a round is fired.
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I tumble my loaded 223 rounds in untreated corn cob, it removes the lanolin from the Dillon pump spray lube. Those cases are also loaded on Dillon CARBIDE dies, and to the best of my knowledge, all rifle cases need lube. One can get away with some dry cases, but if you run about 6 consecutive thru the carbide sizer, they are gonna stick (don't ask me how I know)
as Steve Cover said, FACTORY ROUNDS are tumbled to remove lube. I have seen smaller scale, commercial reloaders use those portable DIY cement mixers as tumblers. They also have a propane burner heating the drum. I guess that helps "melt' off the lube into the media.
I like the Dillon pump spray lube. The carrier agent (alcohol?) evaporates and leaves the lanolin behind. I take the cardboard sleeve that holds five bricks of primers, pour about 150 223 cases into it. shake a bit, so they are all in single layer. Pump about 8 spritzes of lube, and the top half of the cartridge case is decently wet, close the lid, and tilt back and forth. You can hear the cases rolling around and (I presume) evenly distributing the lube amongst themselves. This whole process takes less than.
Load about 50 rounds. go over to the vibratory tumbler and drop those 50 into the corncob. by the time I have loaded the next 50, it's time to take the first batch out of the media. So they tumble for about 15 minutes.
I tumble my dirty brass with those stainless steel pins and Lemi Shine rinse agent (avail WalMart)...PERFECTION!!!
as far as tumbling lead bullets, yes they take on a dark grey color, NOT the molten silver look. And I think the concern of lead dust contamination is a valid point. So, wear a painters mask when pouring out the dusy media. And the idea of adding a Tbsp of rubbing alcohol sounds like a good one.
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<<< SNIP >>>
as far as tumbling lead bullets, yes they take on a dark grey color, NOT the molten silver look. And I think the concern of lead dust contamination is a valid point. So, wear a painters mask when pouring out the dusy media. And the idea of adding a Tbsp of rubbing alcohol sounds like a good one.
I place a small sheet of dryer anti-static material in my corncob material.
It does a good job of keeping the corncob dust free.
I change it fairly often (Every 20 or so hours of operation) and am happy with the results.
+1 on wearing a mask when dealing with tumbled lead bullets.
My antistatic sheet works well, but why take any chances.
Back when I was the range master of an indoor range, I had my blood checked for lead levels every year.
My lead count is still higher than normal but not dangerous.
This was from standing behind the firing line making sure nobody got dangerous.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Steve