The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on July 24, 2012, 06:43:05 PM
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This is a blog post I found on the Blaze, their article caught my attention to I went to the source for the original
http://sofrep.com/9657/navy-seal-lessons-learned-aurora-colorado-survive/
by Brandon Webb · July 24, 2012 · Posted In: Slideshow, Special Operations
As I continue to read about the terrible tragedy in Aurora, Colorado, I can’t help but think there’s some lessons from my time as a Navy SEAL that I can pass on to the average citizen. I want to make sure that the victims of the Aurora do not suffer or die in vain. As a country, we need to learn from this tragedy, raise awareness, and save lives in the future. So here goes…
Don’t Make Yourself an Easy Target
When at sporting events, concerts, and the movies, choose seats that give you a tactical advantage always. What do I mean? Choose seats that allow good and east vantage points and a hasty exit point. Always stack the odds in your favor. It’s the reason I still combat park (back in to a space) and sit with my back to the wall when I’m eating.
Active Shooter Scenario Advice
Take cover and not concealment. Concealment hides, cover hides AND protects. It’s the difference between hiding behind a movie seat or a concrete wall.
Don’t lie there with your eyes closed and get shot. Think and move. In these situations you have to take charge and get in the mindset of self-rescue. You cannot wait for first-responders – it takes too long. A good decision executed quickly is better than a great one never executed. Violence of action, as we call it in the Spec Ops community, will often change the odds in your favor.
For close quarter combat drills we’d draw a gun with someone over 20 feet away running at us. In most cases you can be on someone before they can draw and take a shot. I’m not advocating running straight at someone but if you have the tactical advantage (jam, re-loading, distraction or the shooter isn’t paying attention) then take the shooter down or get the hell out of there. Remember that a moving target is extremely hard to hit, even for the well-trained shooter. Deal with the situation with your eyes wide open.
In Aurora, the shooter was severely weighted down with armor and his helmet would have also limited his vision. You can use all this to your advantage.
Flashlight anyone? I have one for daily carry and take it everywhere with me. It’s become another extension of me and has diffused at least two potentially violent confrontations in a non-lethal way. I recommend the Surefire P2X Fury Dual Output LED.
How to use it in this situation?
I would have pulled my high lumens pocket flashlight and blinded this guy. The high powered beam would have taken away his vision for 3-4 seconds, which is an eternity and enough time to flight or fight. There’s also no shame in surviving and getting you and your loved ones out of harm – especially little ones. Be a Hero to your kids and family for surviving, nobody can expect more of you than that. Like we say in Survival Escape Evasion Resistance (SERE) school, “Survive with Honor.”
Concealed Carry
If you’re lucky enough to live in a state like Texas that not only allows concealed carry, but supports the use of deadly force, then train to use it.
Think seriously about whether it’s worth a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) permit in states where you’re likely to get screwed by a jury if you use it. Example: I can get a CCW in CA but I’m likely screwed if I shoot somebody. The mostly liberal (I’m a registered independent for the record) jury will be sure to have my ass and it’s why I own a dog that’s trained to bite and protect (another good option). Nothing makes me happier then visualizing PETA pitted against other wild-eyed liberals.
Bottom line is that if you own a gun and have it as daily carry, you’d better rehearse your use scenarios both physically and mentally, and the same with the gun in the home. Mental practice is extremely valuable after you’ve mastered the basics. FYI, shooting paper at the local range will not prepare you for a defensive shooting situation. Rehearsing defensive scenarios is the only thing that will prepare you.
For most of you, the best bet is to buy a good tactical flashlight, there are plenty on the market. Specs: At least 200+ lumens, waterproof, LED, and a 3volt lithium battery. Use and carry your light with you at all times. It’s the best non-lethal and practical option available, in my opinion. You can take it anywhere – including on an airplane – and if it’s a high lumen model it will blind people in broad daylight. I can’t recommend this purchase enough.
Learn From an Expert
There are plenty of former Military and Law Enforcement that have great self-defense skills. Just vet your instructor carefully, ask for references and proof of service. While there are many solid instructors out there, there are also a plethora of wannabe Rex-Kwon-Do types who are self-proclaimed experts and worse – lie about their service.
Alter Your Lifestyle, and it May Save Your Life
Avoid opening night and large crowds (e.g. go to Disney World during off-peak) that make easy targets. FYI, most domestic and foreign terrorists want the biggest bang for their buck. They want Yankee stadium sold out and not Padre stadium at 60% capacity. It sucks to live this way sometimes but ask the survivors from Colorado if it’s worth a minor lifestyle change. I say it is, and it’s the main reason I’m watching the Olympics on TV and not attending this year. London is too much of a risk for a variety of reasons that I will not go into on this post.
Don’t Be a Victim
Rehearse emergency scenarios before there’s an emergency, the time to practice is NOT when it’s happening.
The world is a dangerous place these days. Be prepared.
Read more: http://sofrep.com/9657/navy-seal-lessons-learned-aurora-colorado-survive/#ixzz21aQUc8KI
A great book I’d also recommend is, Escape The Wolf by Clinton Emerson.
My condolences to the victims and their families in Aurora Colorado.
Read more: http://sofrep.com/9657/navy-seal-lessons-learned-aurora-colorado-survive/#ixzz21aQbHOns
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Flashlight anyone?
Was this on Fox NC today? I was watching at lunch and Megan say she had a tip from a Seal about something that could save your life. But I had to go back to work before they got back to this item.
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Was this on Fox NC today? I was watching at lunch and Megan say she had a tip from a Seal about something that could save your life. But I had to go back to work before they got back to this item.
I don't know.
The part that caught my attention was don't put yourself in the target zone, don't go opening night, don't go to the SRO show. Go the second or third night, go to the show when it's only 1/2 full.
Mass shooters only bother with places there are masses, they will not strike somewhere if they may be the only ones there, kind of defeats their whole purpose.
Kind of like with normal crime, don't hang out with or be a druggie, drunk, or gang banger , don't go where they congregate, and you will cut you chances of becoming a target to a fraction of what they would be otherwise.
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He was on CNN at some point. I can't tell you the time, because it was on just for background noise in the office.
One thing he said after the flashlight caught my attention and ticked me off. He talked of a gun not being the answer, because he is a "trained sniper" and he would have a tough time hitting a moving target.
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Sound advice, especially the avoidance and light parts. I can give a second to his light recommendation. I have a Surefire P2X Fury and really like it. It's not one of my 2 primary edc's mainly because I'm more concerned about battery life in my edc. I keep it in my bag of stuff that could be handy and often comes with me, at least to the truck. It's a 15/500 lumen light. Two things to consider about it if they are important to you: 1) you have to double tap/click to get the max output since the low lights first (not that big of deal to me) and 2) it is more of a flood light than a spot light (again, not a problem for my application). My edc lights are both Surefires that I bought before the P2X. The first is a 6PX pro. It's essentially the exact same light as the P2X but with a 15/200 lumen led. The second is a EB1 Backup. I believe it's a 80/5 lumen (new ones are 100/5) with the max lighting first and a lense designed for throw. It's probably my favorite light and rides clipped in my right pocket next to my knife. I swap the 6PX out for the P2X when I know I'm going to really dark places or in the woods, etc. Since I've started carry a light daily, they have been some of the most useful things I carry. I use them more than my pocket knives and can't imagine not carrying one now.
Nothing makes me happier then visualizing PETA pitted against other wild-eyed liberals.
That's probably my favorite quote out of the entire post.
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He was on CNN at some point. I can't tell you the time, because it was on just for background noise in the office.
One thing he said after the flashlight caught my attention and ticked me off. He talked of a gun not being the answer, because he is a "trained sniper" and he would have a tough time hitting a moving target.
I don't know, or much care, what's on Communist News Network .
What is published under his name concerning guns is worth thinking about.
"Don’t lie there with your eyes closed and get shot. Think and move. In these situations you have to take charge and get in the mindset of self-rescue. You cannot wait for first-responders – it takes too long. A good decision executed quickly is better than a great one never executed. Violence of action, as we call it in the Spec Ops community, will often change the odds in your favor.
For close quarter combat drills we’d draw a gun with someone over 20 feet away running at us. In most cases you can be on someone before they can draw and take a shot. I’m not advocating running straight at someone but if you have the tactical advantage (jam, re-loading, distraction or the shooter isn’t paying attention) then take the shooter down or get the hell out of there. Remember that a moving target is extremely hard to hit, even for the well-trained shooter. Deal with the situation with your eyes wide open.
Concealed Carry
If you’re lucky enough to live in a state like Texas that not only allows concealed carry, but supports the use of deadly force, then train to use it.
Think seriously about whether it’s worth a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) permit in states where you’re likely to get screwed by a jury if you use it. Example: I can get a CCW in CA but I’m likely screwed if I shoot somebody........
Bottom line is that if you own a gun and have it as daily carry, you’d better rehearse your use scenarios both physically and mentally,
There are plenty of former Military and Law Enforcement that have great self-defense skills. Just vet your instructor carefully, ask for references and proof of service. "
The Blaze article also contained a comment about being the next Zimmerman.
Nothing there to get your panties in a bunch.
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True Tom, but what I quoted came right out of his mouth on whatever show that he was on.
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Have to rethink my opinion of how valuable a light might be other than searching. I have one that is kaput and haven't made fixing or replacing it a priority. That will change.
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In places where I am not allowed to carry concealed, I always carry Sabre Pepper Spray and a flashlight. Also have a small Blade Tech knife that I keep in my pocket.
I agree with everything mentioned in the article. Makes sense. Just need to get people to listen and utilize the tips mentioned. Just as long as they do not take my seat where I can put my back against the wall and able to see the entrance/exit.
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In places where I am not allowed to carry concealed, I always carry Sabre Pepper Spray and a flashlight. Also have a small Blade Tech knife that I keep in my pocket.
I agree with everything mentioned in the article. Makes sense. Just need to get people to listen and utilize the tips mentioned. Just as long as they do not take my seat where I can put my back against the wall and able to see the entrance/exit.
When I was 16 I started choosing a seat where I could have my back to the wall and see the doors.
Often when being seated with a group, I'd ask the person who had taken my preferred seat to switch with me.... For some reason I didn't like heading to the table first, but went last...perhaps to not have folks following close behind me...
Folks I hung out with knew my preference and one time when I asked the girl who took the seat I preferred to switch the girl who had the seat made a comment to the effect "Why do you make such a big deal about having your back to the wall?". I asked her "Having your back to the wall isn't a big deal to you?" She answered "Of course not". To which I replied "Good. Scoot over then, thanks."
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+1 Solus!
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When I was 16 I started choosing a seat where I could have my back to the wall and see the doors.
Often when being seated with a group, I'd ask the person who had taken my preferred seat to switch with me.... For some reason I didn't like heading to the table first, but went last...perhaps to not have folks following close behind me...
Folks I hung out with knew my preference and one time when I asked the girl who took the seat I preferred to switch the girl who had the seat made a comment to the effect "Why do you make such a big deal about having your back to the wall?". I asked her "Having your back to the wall isn't a big deal to you?" She answered "Of course not". To which I replied "Good. Scoot over then, thanks."
I also avoid sitting in the middle on a bench.
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I also avoid sitting in the middle on a bench.
Oh yes....the end or pull up a chair.
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Depends where you are....at the dog park, the dogs tend to piss on the ends of the benches...occupied or no.
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Folks I hung out with knew my preference and one time when I asked the girl who took the seat I preferred to switch the girl who had the seat made a comment to the effect "Why do you make such a big deal about having your back to the wall?". I asked her "Having your back to the wall isn't a big deal to you?" She answered "Of course not". To which I replied "Good. Scoot over then, thanks."
And they say chivalry is dead. Gives a whole new meaning to "women and children first". ROFL. ;D
FQ13
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they put this in the news.com.au back when it cam out after the shooting to my surprise..
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Think seriously about whether it’s worth a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) permit in states where you’re likely to get screwed by a jury if you use it.
So it's better to face of an armed attack with harsh language?
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Think seriously about whether it’s worth a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) permit in states where you’re likely to get screwed by a jury if you use it.
So it's better to face of an armed attack with harsh language?
That isn't what he's saying, he's saying that if you live in a state that opposes SD You want to think about the consequences before you go through the hassle and expense of getting the permit.
I don't know NYC's self defense laws but they are the poster child for "Antigun".
Lets say you spend the hundreds or thousands of dollars in fees and bribes needed to get a NYC permit.
If you actually need to use it you stand a very good chance of being portrayed as a "vigilante" and facing the exact same charges as if you had been the criminal.
For myself, if I lived in a place like that I would save the money, avoid the notice and just pick up a private sale "throwaway" that no one would know I had unless I needed it, then , considering the low closure rate on murders I would just shut my mouth and walk away, ditching the piece at some distance.
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You're a machinist Tom! Just grind it into dust....
How many guns are here in that are NOT registered? Not saying I have any but....
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You're a machinist Tom! Just grind it into dust....
How many guns are here in that are NOT registered? Not saying I have any but....
Hard to do ballistic testing on a pile of milling chips that have been dumped into a dumpster full of other milling chips. ;D
Up here even the ones bought at a store aren't "registered".
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This is a good thread! We just finished "modeling" both the Aurora theater shootings and the Chicago restaurant "beat-down" for THE BEST DEFENSE 2013. We will NOT be modeling Bogan and his grinder, LOL!
Michael B
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Lessons of a misspent youth MB. ;D
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Lessons of a misspent youth MB. ;D
Misspent Youth?? Who are you gonna convince you were ever young? ;D ;D
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hey the you posted very nice about navy seal lessons . I like your topic very most.
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I'm coming into this a bit late, and I confess to have not read all the posts in this thread, but I have some important things to share about the theater shooting, and I'm really pressed on time right now...
One of the F-F Instructors in my camp was on scene an hour after the shooting went down (he was in the Command Center and also got to go out and see the carnage), and was there all night and on into the next day.
The Bad Guy had 5 or 6 other theaters closer to his apartment (which he had wired to explode) but did not choose to go the closer movie theaters. Why? :-\
You guessed it. The one he chose was a "GUN FREE ZONE". :o
Further, Cick Fil A sent food & drinks to the police, EMT and Rescue workers ALL NIGHT LONG and on into the next day including breakfast and lunch AT NO CHARGE!!!!!!!!!! Now how cool was that?? 8)
I don't remember seeing that on the nightly news, do you? Remember that next time you need to get some good fast food. :)
V/R
D.R.
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Welcome DR. Input always welcome.
...... The one he chose was a "GUN FREE ZONE". :o
It's nice to have another confirmation of this.
Further, Cick Fil A sent food & drinks to the police, EMT and Rescue workers ALL NIGHT LONG and on into the next day including breakfast and lunch AT NO CHARGE!!!!!!!!!! Now how cool was that?? 8)
I don't remember seeing that on the nightly news, do you? Remember that next time you need to get some good fast food. :)
One of the problems is because of the religious background of Chick Fil A this isn't news, and they usually don't seek PR for what they do. Franchisees are quick to respond to needs in communities. While corporate may have provide some of the funds, it's the local store owner/manager that probably initiated and paid for it.
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I'm coming into this a bit late, and I confess to have not read all the posts in this thread, but I have some important things to share about the theater shooting, and I'm really pressed on time right now...
One of the F-F Instructors in my camp was on scene an hour after the shooting went down (he was in the Command Center and also got to go out and see the carnage), and was there all night and on into the next day.
The Bad Guy had 5 or 6 other theaters closer to his apartment (which he had wired to explode) but did not choose to go the closer movie theaters. Why? :-\
You guessed it. The one he chose was a "GUN FREE ZONE". :o
Further, Cick Fil A sent food & drinks to the police, EMT and Rescue workers ALL NIGHT LONG and on into the next day including breakfast and lunch AT NO CHARGE!!!!!!!!!! Now how cool was that?? 8)
I don't remember seeing that on the nightly news, do you? Remember that next time you need to get some good fast food. :)
V/R
D.R.
that may or may not be the reason. it's incredibly hard to figure out what an insane person has in their head. it could be something as simple as their popcorn sucked. it could be random. or it could have been this was the only theater that he could block and exit with a vehicle which is what he did. it is very hard to say how highly functioning this person was
so please dont jump to conclusions about things that we do not know. especially if it's politically motivated. that's exactly what the race baiters do
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TAB, it was reported at the time by one of the conservative news feeds, the ONLY difference between this theater and those closer to his home was the no guns signs. (And MAYBE the popcorn.)
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What Tab is saying, Tom, is that while this may have been the only theater with a definitive "no-gun" policy we don't know if in the shooter's mind that was his reasoning.
It could have been the popcorn or the movie.
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Or the Love of his Life who he was stalking was in there with her Fiance and it was time he let her know he had feelings for her.
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<snip>
The Bad Guy had 5 or 6 other theaters closer to his apartment (which he had wired to explode) but did not choose to go the closer movie theaters. Why? :-\
You guessed it. The one he chose was a "GUN FREE ZONE". :o
<snip>
So is anyone suing the theater chain for their no gun policy that excluded legal gun bearers? The theater chain obviously failed to provide for the security of their patrons while simultaneously removing the patron's ability to adequately defend themselves.
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Rastus, I believe that there HAVE been lawsuits filed about "inadequate security".
I believe correctly ;D
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24750499/man-permanently-disabled-aurora-theater-shooting-sues-cinemark
A man who became a quadriplegic when a bullet severed his cervical spine in the Aurora theater shooting has sued Cinemark for what he said were lax security measures that put him and many others at risk.
................................................More at link...............................................................
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I heard this aired in a podcast, and it led to me researching a suitable flashlight to carry. It turns out there is an enormous subculture of people who LOVE flashlights!
As you probably know, Surefire makes exceptional flashlights, at a somewhat exceptionally high price ; )
There are many other options available with higher light output, cost less, and are also very durable.
I made a series of youtube video comparing several models. There may be slightly better models since I did this last June.
My final choice was a Nitecore P12 which I carry everyday in one pocket, with Fox pepper spray in the other pocket. If i were to buy one today, I would probably get the continually variable output model from Nitecore SRT6.
VIDEOS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtE3bsfneCA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtE3bsfneCA)
NITECORE P12 (2015 version)
http://www.amazon.com/Nitecore-Tactical-Flashlight-Lumentac-Keychain/dp/B00H1XDYFW/ref=sr_1_3?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1421805608&sr=1-3&keywords=nitecore+p12 (http://www.amazon.com/Nitecore-Tactical-Flashlight-Lumentac-Keychain/dp/B00H1XDYFW/ref=sr_1_3?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1421805608&sr=1-3&keywords=nitecore+p12)
NITECORE SRT6
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D6RV71A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3LVN6XXJJDT59&coliid=I3LWMBW96265FX (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D6RV71A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3LVN6XXJJDT59&coliid=I3LWMBW96265FX)
HARDCORE FLASHLIGHT REVIEWS - where you can check out a whole bunch of options!
http://www.flashlightreviews.ca/ (http://www.flashlightreviews.ca/)
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I love flashlights, though I've tapered off (couldn't go cold turkey) in buying every one that caught my attention.
SureFire is SureExpensive and I tend toward the Streamlight alternative. That is for tactical lights.
Nothing as scientific as you but I did a whole little story on various non-tactical lights for survival. I do like the category by battery type on the review page.
I'm trending, as I get older, towards simpler. I don't need fancy stuff like SOS, strobe, red lights. Just a momentary on and a full on is all I want. Though in the camping light, low/med/hi is great for extended battery life.
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I heard this aired in a podcast, and it led to me researching a suitable flashlight to carry. It turns out there is an enormous subculture of people who LOVE flashlights!
As you probably know, Surefire makes exceptional flashlights, at a somewhat exceptionally high price ; )
There are many other options available with higher light output, cost less, and are also very durable.
I made a series of youtube video comparing several models. There may be slightly better models since I did this last June.
My final choice was a Nitecore P12 which I carry everyday in one pocket, with Fox pepper spray in the other pocket. If i were to buy one today, I would probably get the continually variable output model from Nitecore SRT6.
VIDEOS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtE3bsfneCA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtE3bsfneCA)
NITECORE P12 (2015 version)
http://www.amazon.com/Nitecore-Tactical-Flashlight-Lumentac-Keychain/dp/B00H1XDYFW/ref=sr_1_3?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1421805608&sr=1-3&keywords=nitecore+p12 (http://www.amazon.com/Nitecore-Tactical-Flashlight-Lumentac-Keychain/dp/B00H1XDYFW/ref=sr_1_3?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1421805608&sr=1-3&keywords=nitecore+p12)
NITECORE SRT6
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D6RV71A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3LVN6XXJJDT59&coliid=I3LWMBW96265FX (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D6RV71A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3LVN6XXJJDT59&coliid=I3LWMBW96265FX)
HARDCORE FLASHLIGHT REVIEWS - where you can check out a whole bunch of options!
http://www.flashlightreviews.ca/ (http://www.flashlightreviews.ca/)
How do you know when the battery is charged? Does the red light (http://www.bestpowerfulflashlights.com) turn green? How long to charge?
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I just finished the book "Sheep No More" by Jonathan Gilliam... good presentation on threat analysis and preparation... well worth the money...
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I'm old, so this might be a repeat... if you are looking for a relatively inexpensive P60 size light (Surefire 6P 2xcr123 size) you might look at Solar Force (Hong Kong)... you need to do your homework, but they sell individual components as well as complete lights...you need to check the light module for voltage and functions... single or multi brightness... and select the body.. you can typically put together a good high lumen light for about $35 + batteries